Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[SuziQ]

Randi Kaye's 360 blog:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/21/behind-the-scenes-investigating-the-smiley-face-killer/

As a reporter, I’ve moved around a lot. Little Rock, Arkansas. Dallas, Texas. New York, New York. Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Some stories stick with you along the way, some actually haunt you, like the story I am reporting on tonight on Anderson Cooper 360°.
While I lived and worked in the Midwest for seven years, I reported on at least half a dozen college-age men who had simply vanished. (more at link)

 

[SuziQ]

I'll just put this out there...Could this be the makings for some sort of "College initiation??". I am curious why similiar drownings are happening in different states on the same day. It has to be more than coincedence.

A possible group initiation of somesort.

 

[BethInAK]

Group initiation sounds like a good guess.

I don't think the operation is that sophisticated that they pick victims ahead of time. I think they wait outside of drinking establishments, pick someone that looks clean cut and follow them in a vehicle. Simple as that.

 

[SheerLuck]

SL- I completely disagree with your statement of "brute force without a lot of thought" the mean IQ of known serial killers is in excess of 160- all they are is thought, root cause varies, but you could never accuse any true SK that I am aware of as being thoughtless. I thought you were reading the posts, please read my theory quote]

Now Blink; first of all; you tell me to post facts but when I say young white males who are leaving bars and parties appear to be the target; you disagree. Now when I say that I thought these crimes are being done mostly by brute force through basic street abductions on quiet side streets; you attack another post of mine. Seeing as nothing is definite except that the victims are mostly young, white males who have been drinking; maybe you shouldn't be so quick to disagree or attack my ideas. My basic idea remains the same: young white males who leave a bar or party and are separated by their friends are being abducted and drowned by evil, twisted killers who I do not think are very bright

 

[SeriouslySearching]

My basic idea remains the same: young white males who leave a bar or party and are separated by their friends are being abducted and drowned by evil, twisted killers who I do not think are very bright

They weren't all white and that is not an original idea as it is what we have been saying all along...except for the intelligence factor.

The comment from the detective threw me for a minute, but I think he is wrong or he was being misleading on purpose. I don't imagine the group likes hearing that they are stupid! Maybe it is his way of "calling them out".

Someone has been smart enough to plan and pull off perfect murders without getting caught for ten plus years. This certainly doesn't speak to "brute force without thought" at all.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think they are stalking their victims before and not just waiting on the next Joe Blow that leaves alone. This seems more calculated than opportunistic to me.

 

[RR0004]

I agree with you SS. I just watched the segment on CNN and it didn't appear to me that the detective truly believed what he was saying. I also think it's an attempt to flush the killers out...get them to react and, perhaps, do something that may slip them up. What concerns me is that it could incite them as well. This is generally the "quiet" time of the year for these killings, isn't it?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I agree with you SS. I just watched the segment on CNN and it didn't appear to me that the detective truly believed what he was saying. I also think it's an attempt to flush the killers out...get them to react and, perhaps, do something that may slip them up. What concerns me is that it could incite them as well. This is generally the "quiet" time of the year for these killings, isn't it?

Yes and may be the reason he feels safer saying it.

 

[Blink34]

SL- I completely disagree with your statement of "brute force without a lot of thought" the mean IQ of known serial killers is in excess of 160- all they are is thought, root cause varies, but you could never accuse any true SK that I am aware of as being thoughtless. I thought you were reading the posts, please read my theory quote]

Now Blink; first of all; you tell me to post facts but when I say young white males who are leaving bars and parties appear to be the target; you disagree. Now when I say that I thought these crimes are being done mostly by brute force through basic street abductions on quiet side streets; you attack another post of mine. Seeing as nothing is definite except that the victims are mostly young, white males who have been drinking; maybe you shouldn't be so quick to disagree or attack my ideas. My basic idea remains the same: young white males who leave a bar or party and are separated by their friends are being abducted and drowned by evil, twisted killers who I do not think are very bright

SL- here is where you consistently run into trouble- Read EXACTLY what I disagreed with, and EXACTLY what you posted. Then compare what you have said above- they do not match.

I disagree with your asessment that serial killers always use brutal force and without thought. This is not my lone opinion. Crack a case at Quantico and read for yourself. I'm simply disagreeing with a single statement you made, which the antethisis of which, is factual, er go- my
dissention. That's all. I am not quick to dismiss your or anybody's ideas, I considered your opinion, know that facts exist to compell a different one- viola!

 

[Blink34]

Glad to see you too! The weather went back to winterlike so I'm inside again. Anyways, good point about Jaramy wanting to cut a deal. And unfortunately MPLS did take the PA address for Lilly at face value and closed the tip.

Do we know what that address is- a PO? I want to say even in the redacted report it was in Fort Washington, PA?

 

[Blink34]

Yes and may be the reason he feels safer saying it.

While I am not saying that I agree particullarly with the detectives mentality about now being a safe time- I do not. I think that we are a week- 10 days from a lull, I agree with you that he said it for that reason. Offtopic- congrats on David Cook:blowkiss:

 

[SheerLuck]

SL- I completely disagree with your statement of "brute force without a lot of thought" the mean IQ of known serial killers is in excess of 160 quote]

Blink: You might be right, by what I did is I formed a profile of the killers and a visualization of how I think these crimes went down; based mainly on the Jenkins case and what the informant confessed; who watched Chris Jenkins get murdered. To me it sounds like Jenkins was drunk and alone and got abducted in a van; tortured and killed. So I thought brute force. Now Dawn brings up an interesting idea; in that there might be a hierarchy with some brains at the top. Basically my profile is that the killers are evil and stupid

John Wayne Gacy: High school dropout, shoe sales man, KFC restaurant manager and a clown. Abducted and killed over 30 men before being caught. Not much brain work in being a clown and handicuffing unsuspecting 17 year olds and burying them in your basement

David Berkowitz: no college; instead joined the army and worked at the post office; considered to have above average intelligience. Not much brains in driving to an isolated area and seeing a car with a couple making out and shooting them in the head

Jeffrey Dahmer: attended Ohio State for a year and dropped out; joined the army and was discharged quickly. Those who knew him thought he was a stupid and obnoxious drunk. He went to bars and lured gay men to his house where he killed them.

 

[SheerLuck]

I'm leaning towards Lilly because he was a member of the drowning fetish website. He's a perfect example of how he's not a smart guy and LE ignored him for years.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64096

Drowning fetish website??? What the **** is that??? Was that on CNN?

 

[Blink34]

Drowning fetish website??? What the **** is that??? Was that on CNN?

Thread #1 I believe, SL.. this is what I mean about reading all posts:crazy:

 

[SuziQ]

Blink, I've never seen the entire address anywhere, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. Shadow might even have it.

SL, Profiler Pat Brown, at the request of Mo. LE made contact with Lilly through a drowning fetish site. I would have to go look, but there is an article in Crime Library.

 

[SheerLuck]

The informant may not have been an actual member or an active participant. And I do see a possibility of an organization through a drowning fetish club that Lilly was involved in.

ETA: Pdf page 50 is why I feel Lilly is the informant.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/mpdcasefile.pdf

The informant has to be an informant/suspect. Another words he or she is ratting on the others and saying that he or she was in the van, but only witnessed the crime, but did not take part in it

 

[Blink34]

SL- I completely disagree with your statement of "brute force without a lot of thought" the mean IQ of known serial killers is in excess of 160 quote]

Blink: You might be right, by what I did is I formed a profile of the killers and a visualization of how I think these crimes went down; based mainly on the Jenkins case and what the informant confessed; who watched Chris Jenkins get murdered. To me it sounds like Jenkins was drunk and alone and got abducted in a van; tortured and killed. So I thought brute force. Now Dawn brings up an interesting idea; in that there might be a hierarchy with some brains at the top. Basically my profile is that the killers are evil and stupid

John Wayne Gacy: High school dropout, shoe sales man, KFC restaurant manager and a clown. Abducted and killed over 30 men before being caught. Not much brain work in being a clown and handicuffing unsuspecting 17 year olds and burying them in your basement

David Berkowitz: no college; instead joined the army and worked at the post office; considered to have above average intelligience. Not much brains in driving to an isolated area and seeing a car with a couple making out and shooting them in the head

Jeffrey Dahmer: attended Ohio State for a year and dropped out; joined the army and was discharged quickly. Those who knew him thought he was a stupid and obnoxious drunk. He went to bars and lured gay men to his house where he killed them.

Your killing me SL- read your post, it is YOUR OPINION, not fact- High IQ, but other mental defficiancies are coomon.
http://dead-silence.org/?p=260

Mundane tasks associated with murder do not a serial killer make-

 

[SuziQ]

SL, here is the crime library article regarding Lilly. The discussion starts at Chapter 7.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/la_crosse_wisconsin/7.html

 

[RR0004]

Blink, I figured the "lull" would be soon. IMHO, and I'm sure all will concur, it's a welcome "respite" from this horror. I suppose it was too soon for the detectives to comment on the Garza case, as that was the last Smiley Face to be uncovered, if I'm not mistaken. Being that Duarte and Gannon work backwards to the point of entry (of the body) into the water, without knowing where Nick is it's not likely a case they can tie in just yet.
SL- I see your point about SKs. I do believe this is the working of a much more organized group (?), though. Needless to say, taking the life of anyone involves "force" of some kind...and sickness of the mind...no matter how smart the killers may be.

 

[SheerLuck]

SL- here is where you consistently run into trouble- Read EXACTLY what I disagreed with, and EXACTLY what you posted. Then compare what you have said above- they do not match.

I disagree with your asessment that serial killers always use brutal force and without thought. This is not my lone opinion. Crack a case at Quantico and read for yourself. I'm simply disagreeing with a single statement you made, which the antethisis of which, is factual, er go- my
dissention. That's all. I am not quick to dismiss your or anybody's ideas, I considered your opinion, know that facts exist to compell a different one- viola! [/quote

It's good people are posting their ideas now, which makes websleuths a lot better. Blink; I noticed that me and you agree on some parts of this, but we seem to clash when we don't agree. It could be you didn't like some of my early posts that maybe were a bit abrasive(I say this faceciously). I'm trying to post better now. Blink; I never said serial killers "always" use brute force; but what I said is that "male" serial killers "usually" use brute force. There's a difference. I think with women and crime, there sometimes is a bit more thought involved. Also women usually either commit robbery or hurt family members, but women don't usually kill for senseless, dimented reasons. Senseless crimes are usually men.