Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[SheerLuck]

Research other states and you will soon figure out that these so-called accidents ONLY occur in areas where these men are being found with the exception of the one in WA state. There is no way that I can rectify the men there are so stupid and others are just smarter when they are out partying. It is not logical no matter how you slice it. It simply IS NOT and HAS NOT happened in other areas like those. Period.

Well, I thought it might be the deadly combo of hyperthermia and drowning that might explain why it's mainly along the northern corridor and in the fall and winter months when these kids drown. And it does get cold in WA state also. And I wouldn't be so qucik to say where these types of drowings haven't happened because Gannon said he eliminated about 20 of them as not being connected and there were 19 others he didn't look at yet. So where were these other 39 drownings?

 

[RR0004]

Curious...so these young men go into the frigid waters alone for fun or because they're drunk/high and don't immediately realize it's freakin cold (in the Fall/Winter) and drown? Sorry, SL...just can't see it.

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

Why? Most fit the profile of the recreational user and many were drinking for several hours and had 2 or 3 times the legal limit whic is 15 or more beers. And GHB's recreational popularity is limited mostly to young men because women fear the date rape aspect; so maybe this explains; in part; why its only men walking in rivers. The first thing taught in rehab is that addiction has no prejudice and that high IQ and athleticism make no difference once the party begins. Here's one of 100's of articles explaining the dangers and popularity as a recreational drug:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_basics.shtml

Here's the beginning: GHB is used most commonly in the form of a chemical salt which is taken recreationally as a depressant with effects quite similar to those of alcohol. These salts are powders but are most often mixed with water for recreational use. While GHB is most notorious for a few cases where it has been given to unsuspecting individuals, it is more commonly used as a recreational intoxicant like alcohol, as a sleep-aid, or as a supplement by body-builders. and at the bottom of article:

PROBLEMS
Unfortunately, GHB has a few prominent problems which, in combination, can be quite dangerous. The difference between a recreational dose and a mild overdose (temporarily unrousable sleep) can be as little as 1-2 grams, the equivalent of a single dosage unit. Combining GHB with alcohol can lead to nausea, vomiting, and unconsciousness at even lower levels. Also, because GHB often comes in liquid form and because the concentration of this liquid is difficult to determine, it is relatively common for people to accidentally take a larger dose of GHB than they think they are taking. Everyone thinks it can't happen to them

Given the use as a sleep aid, I can see GHB being taken after a night of partying. You've had one too many Red Bulls and whatever liquor, are really wired, and get some GHB so you can unwind.

Also, could GHB (or Ecstasy, or Rohypnol, or even the Quaaludes mentioned a few pages back) be adversely reacting with energy drink ingredients?

 

[SheerLuck]

Given the use as a sleep aid, I can see GHB being taken after a night of partying. You've had one too many Red Bulls and whatever liquor, are really wired, and get some GHB so you can unwind.

Also, could GHB (or Ecstasy, or Rohypnol, or even the Quaaludes mentioned a few pages back) be adversely reacting with energy drink ingredients?

Peculiar P, you bring up an interesting point. I forgot that GHB is also used as a sleep aid. Sleep aids can be addicting and as you said; they'd be taken at the end of the night. GHB reacts particularily bad with other depressants; especially alcohol. Fortunately quaaludes disapearred in the early '80's(bad ludse began causing heart failure so kids got petrified and no black market developed). As for how GHB would react with a stimulant like ecstasy, cocaine or an energy drink; sometimes uppers and downers counteract at first where the person looks fairly stable; but as the stimulant wears off; the depressant sometimes hits very hard

 

[SheerLuck]

I wouldn't go in the Hudson if you paid me...the bacteria could kill you. If you study the family background of some of these kids...no way they drank to excess, took excessive amounts of drugs, walked down desolate streets, and jumped into the Hudson River ALONE! I'm not being naive here. I had 2 kids who partied there butts off at Big Ten schools and have spoken to them at length...not to say there isn't a group of kids at every school that are into drugs, but with all due respect, I truly don't think this is the common denominator here.

Family background matters if a 19 year old kid has a BAC that's 3 times the legal limit? It sounds like your kids could handle their partying, but even they might have had a few close calls with some kind of accident. But some kids have close calls all the time with crazy nights where they drink until they either puke or pass out. Unless Gannon has evidence a bit more compelling than smiley faces and Sinsinawa which was written 4 years before the actual drowning on Sinsinawa Avenue; I think excessive partying led to about 80% of these deaths and the other 20% were either murder, suicide or swimming accidents.

 

[mysteriew]

YES it IS a surprise when it does not occur in every other college community with water, alcohol, and same circumstances!! This is what people do not get! If it were happening all over the country, it could then be considered accidental across the board. We know it is NOT happening all over the country, but in a select few areas. How do the stats account for this phenomenon?!

We have extremely drunk college aged males going out 7 days a week here during the months of school sessions with the Arkansas River a few blocks (some bars even on the river)...NO fences, riprap, or anything but bank or bridges between them...and it is odd that we have only had ONE drowning because the guy decided to ride a raft on a sidecreek that sucked him into the river after a storm.

Why aren't our males running to jump into the river?! Why aren't they drowning in the fountains and ponds on our college campuses?! Are they smarter?! Are they better behaved binge drinkers who never have accidents?! It is ridiculous to think that a 12 pack of beer will make a guy jump in a freaking river. Not going to happen. Into a bed with a coed maybe...but not a river.

Cold weather was here before humans, so were the rivers. And as an 'older' person, I can tell you that college boys drinking to excess was happening long before these boys started going missing. So were drugs. So why wasn't this happening in the '60's? And the '70's?

Also, why isn't it happening in other states? No, the rivers in Fla. might not be as cold, but they are just as deep- too deep for a drunk guy to get himself out if he fell or jumped in. Many are fast enough to sweep a drunk guy off his feet.

College boys aren't the only ones to drink to excess either. College girls do too. So why hasn't any college girls ended up in the rivers? Girls are much more exhibionist/aggressive these days than they used to be.

Yes, I get that guys have to show more machismo, but that usually eases off when they are alone because they don't have to show off for each other. And no one is around to feed their machismo. There is also the natural decompression of people who leave and head home. They tend to get quieter, start slowing down- drunk or sober.

I am curious, have any of these deaths been found to have any GHB in their bloodstream?

 

[mysteriew]

I totally agree. To me, that sounds absolutely preposterous, as well as the idea that a gang of vengeful women are to blame (no offense--JMO).

So you disagree with my theory? Is it because you have a problem with the idea that a woman or a group of women could do such a thing???

Can you think of any other 'group' who might have come up with a reason for doing this type of thing?

Robbery has pretty much been ruled out. No signs of a sexual component. Statistically, the numbers point to something other than accidents. They all have very similiar components- drinking very heavily, alone, often leave friends at the party or bar.

 

[Blink34]

Consider yourself smart and strong to have not ever been caught up in the 15 beer/2 joint nights that extended into other stronger drugs, but that's not how partying works and friends who party with friends who die always say 2 things: we didn't do any drugs and my friend looked fine when he left.

This may be the single post you have ever written that I agree with in it's entirety.

 

[RR0004]

Family background matters if a 19 year old kid has a BAC that's 3 times the legal limit? It sounds like your kids could handle their partying, but even they might have had a few close calls with some kind of accident. But some kids have close calls all the time with crazy nights where they drink until they either puke or pass out. Unless Gannon has evidence a bit more compelling than smiley faces and Sinsinawa which was written 4 years before the actual drowning on Sinsinawa Avenue; I think excessive partying led to about 80% of these deaths and the other 20% were either murder, suicide or swimming accidents.

You were talking about the Hudson...were you not? Johua Bender...no autopsy was performed for religious reasons, but he was going to study the last anyone knew...Patrick McNeill..."McNeill had moderate amount of alcohol in his blood but was not overly inebriated"...and he had to walk a ways to make it to the East River. This is the kid that hooked Gannon. As LE, if he thought at the time all wasn't what it appeared to be...I'll accept what his instincts were telling him. He's held on to finding the truth for a long time. I have the utmost respect for him trying to find answers.

 

[SheerLuck]

Cold weather was here before humans, so were the rivers. And as an 'older' person, I can tell you that college boys drinking to excess was happening long before these boys started going missing. So were drugs. So why wasn't this happening in the '60's? And the '70's?

Also, why isn't it happening in other states? No, the rivers in Fla. might not be as cold, but they are just as deep- too deep for a drunk guy to get himself out if he fell or jumped in. Many are fast enough to sweep a drunk guy off his feet.

College boys aren't the only ones to drink to excess either. College girls do too. So why hasn't any college girls ended up in the rivers? Girls are much more exhibionist/aggressive these days than they used to be.

Yes, I get that guys have to show more machismo, but that usually eases off when they are alone because they don't have to show off for each other. And no one is around to feed their machismo. There is also the natural decompression of people who leave and head home. They tend to get quieter, start slowing down- drunk or sober.

I am curious, have any of these deaths been found to have any GHB in their bloodstream?

So far none of these kids were ruled to have trested positive for GHB although not all the toxicology results have been made public; including the April 27th Ithica, NY drowning. The Wisconsin police tested Luke Homan in 2006 for GHB, but he tested negative. He had a .32 BAC(about 25 beers in 8 hours at an Oktoberfest which was right near the Mississippi). The 8 Wiconsin kids who died had BAC's between .22 and .42,(the .42 was the 1999 drowning of Jeff Geesey). So these Wisconsin kids drank between 14 to 30 beers each and all were within 1/3rd of a mile from the Mississippi. 1 kid(Anthony Skifton) was found with his zipper down and the autopsy showed his bladder was relieved. It's not hard to guess how he ended up in the water. As for stats; it's near impossible frinding reliable drowning death stats from the '60's and '70's, but maybe 3 or 4 college kids have been drowing per year for longer than people realize. The internet isn't that old. Here's a link from a Wisconsin newspaper where some stats are given about college male drowning deaths in Wisconsin. From the link :

six college-aged men drowned in area rivers from 1974-79
eight more drowned between 1980-89
seven have drowned since 1997(actually 8-1 more died after the article was written)

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2004/04/23/news/01community.txt

 

[RR0004]

BTW...anyone know how many alcohol-related deaths by drowning occured in the past year? I found an interesting article from 10 years ago and would like to compare it.

http://www.securityoncampus.org/aboutsoc/campuswatch/v5i1.pdf

 

[RR0004]

GHB is very difficult to test for as it leaves the body rather quickly.

 

[Moe]

GHB is very difficult to test for as it leaves the body rather quickly.

Gannon said the same on Al Roney's show, GHB is a good possibility I think.

 

[fran]

Gannon said the same on Al Roney's show, GHB is a good possibility I think.

If you look up GHB, you see that it is made up differently, ie using different chemicals. Thus, unless LE knows what ingredients were used (to test for that specifically), GHB will go undetected. PLUS, it does leave a body, IIRC, within a few short hours.

JMHO
fran

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040601/2619.html

GHB has a rapid elimination, and the drug is cleared within four to six hours after ingestion, regardless of the dose.

<<snip>>

A 50-mg dose of MDMA can be detected as unchanged drug in the urine up to 72 hours after ingestion. Standard toxicologic tests cannot detect GHB, but the National Forensic Laboratory (National Medical Services, 800-522-6671) will perform urinalysis for detection of GHB for a fee.

 

[fran]

BTW...anyone know how many alcohol-related deaths by drowning occured in the past year? I found an interesting article from 10 years ago and would like to compare it.

http://www.securityoncampus.org/aboutsoc/campuswatch/v5i1.pdf

Interesting article. Thanks RR0004.

fran

School year 94 -95:

**09/01/94..Morgan White, 19, E Lansing, Mi
10/13/94..Phil Gall, missing, Dayton, Ohio


School year 95-96:

**05/18/96..Robert Allen Dale, 33, missing, Saulte Ste, Mi

07/07/96..Ronnie Bolin, 33 (5'7"), missing, (auto loc), Jefferson, Mo


School year 96 - 97

10/25/96..James Cooper, 16, missing, Monroe, Mi
**12/15/97..Greg Martin, 21(?), drowned, Collier County, Fl
02/02/97..Franklin Gottschalk, 25, missing, (auto loc), Lansing, Mi
02/16/97..Patrick McNeill, 21, drowned, New York, NY


97-98 School year:
** 9/22/97..Charles Blatz, 28, drowned,..LaCrosse, Wi
**10/10/97..Anthony Skifton, 19, drowned,..LaCrosse, Wi
**12/31/97..Ryan Getz, 21, drowned (seen unk male), E.Lansing, Mi
**01/01/97..Lawrence Andrews, 22, drowned, New York, NY
**02/22/98..Nathan Kapfer, 20, drowned, LaCrosse, Wi
**03/07/98..Trever Hoheisel, 27, drowned, (seen at hotel), Chicago, Il
**04/25/98..Keith Noble, 19, drowned, Athens, Ohio
**05/04/98..Christopher M. Schuh, 19, drowned, Alliance, Ohio
05/26/98..Joshua Bender, 19, drowned, New York, NY

** = drinking

 

[fran]

98 - 99 School year:
**04/13/99..Jeff Geesey, 21, drowned, LaCrosse, Wi

missing without a trace...............

11/01/98..John J. Restivo, 26, missing, New York, NY
**11/05/98..Anthony Keith Klama, 36, missing (last seen w/unk male) Palatine, Il
02/22/99..Brian Lee Cody, 26, missing (accident, car loc) Coldwater, Mi
**04/14/99..Nathan Edberg, 22, missing (accident, car loc) White Bear Lake, Mn
05/30/99..David Britt Sargent, 18, missing, Guntersville, Alabama
**06/22/99..Darwin Kenneth Vent, 48, missing, Idaho Falls, Idaho

** = drinking

 

[fran]

99 - 00 School year:

**12/30/99..Leon Eli Tong, 21, drowned, Cary, Il
**01/01/00..Brian Welzean, 21, drowned, (last seen at hotel) Chicago, Il

Missing without a trace:

03/21/00..Gregory Alonzo Vice, 23, missing, (auto located) Bossier, LA
**04/10/00..Geoffrey David Apke, 24, missing, (accident, car loc), Covington, KY


** = drinking

 

[fran]

00 - 01 School year:

** 11/05/00..Ryan Katcher, 19, drowned, Oakwood, Il
03/01/01..Patrick Runninger, drowned, LaCrosse, Wi
03/10/01..Justin Hayduk, 18, drowned, Morgantown, WV
04/13/01..Ken Christianson, 19, drowned, Duluth, Mn

Missing without a trace

11/14/00..Joshua Bryan Smith, 23, missing, (auto loc), Pointe Verde, Fl
12/01/00..Mathew Pendergrast, 23, missing, (auto loc), Memphis, Tn
02/15/01..Steven E. Kraft, 12, missing, Benton Harbor, Mi
03/09/01..Michael D. Jansson, 21, missing, (auto loc), Chicago, Il
05/25/01..Brian George, 21, missing, Halifax, Canada

** = drinking

 

[fran]

01 - 02 School year:

** 10/20/01..Eric Blair, 18, drowned, E.Lansing, Mi
** 11/02/01..Anirban Majumdar, 25, drowned, Philadelphia, PA
11/07/01..Christopher Nordby, 28, drowned, Minneapolis, Mn
01/??/02..Hyun Je Chang, 18, drowned, Madison, Wi
** 03/03/02..Brendon McNelis, 20, drowned, Binghamton, NY
** 03/15/02..Scott Langlois, 36, drowned, Sheboygen, WI
04/23/02..Albert Papandreau, 32, drowned, (last seen at bus station), Chicago, Il
**05/24/02..Scott Javin, 20, drowned, (seen talking to 2 unid females) (homicide) Terre Haute, In


08/25/02..Derek Dyson, 19, drowned, Sashatoon, Canada


Missing without a trace

01/26/02..Markus Lorenzana, 19, missing, Stonybrook, NY
04/15/02..Joseph Michael Fallon, 18, missing (NY LE involved),.Myrtle Beach, SC
** 04/28/02..Cody Scott Matney, 24, missing, (auto located), Bristol, Tn

** = drinking

 

[fran]

02 - 03 School year:

** 09/29/02..Craig Burrows, 23, drowned, Eau Claire, Wi
10/28/02..Tim Lee, 34, drowned, Minneapolis, Mn
** 10/31/02..Christopher Jenkins, 21, drowned (homicide), Minneapolis, Mn
** 11/06/02..Michael Noll, 22, drowned, Eau Claire, Wi
12/02/02..David Dantzler Wolfe, 20, drowned, Philadelphia, Pa
**12/12/02..Chad Sharon, 18, South Bend, In
** 12/19/02..David Kinter, 19, drowned, Grand River, Ohio
** 01/10/03..Nathan Herr, drowned, Sheboygen, Wi
1/20/03..Jeremy Stienkeowy, 24, drowned, (seen at hotel unk male)(auto located) Hinckley, Mn
** 03/01/03..Jeremy Houk, 18, drowned, New Orleans, LA
03/16/03..John Daverio, 48, drowned (college professor), Boston, Ma
04/05/03..Michael P. Kline, 24, deceased (in car by river) Youngstown, Ohio
** 04/08/03..Glen Leadley, 23, drowned, Chicago, Il


Missing without a trace

**11/09/02..Josh Guimond, 20, missing, Collegeville, Mn
12/20/02..Brian Carrick, 17, missing, Johnsburg, Il

** = drinking

Special note

Christopher Jenkins and Josh Guimond were both tracked to the Monestary. LE was refused admittance until weeks later. After weeks, the scent of both young men were still present within the monestary, but, Josh's scent was stronger.

Josh Guimond was a well known and vocal critic of the secrecy behind the sexual abuse charges lauded against several priests located at this particular location. Josh is still missing.