Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

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ArizonaGiGi said:
SL, you think Josh Szostak(sp) rearranged his clothes before "jumping into the water"? Firefighter T-shirt OVER his jacket, hoodie and undershirt missing.
I was not convinced these were murders until his murder. Now I have no question.
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Hello Arizona; I think there are 4 or 5 of these cases that might have some foul play or murder involved and the Szostak one is one of them. Bill Szostak is trying to get the FBI interested and I hope he gets them to look at it. But he has to be honest and upfront with them or they won't be interested. He drank a lot that night(despite what his dad and Gannon said on the Al Roney show) and his case is another one where there's an effort to downplay the amount of alcohol consumed. Hopefully this doesn't turn the FBI off
 
Masterj said:
I think the problem here is that you keep mentioning the Hudson river. However, another report said McNeil was found in the East river. Can someone with more knowledge of the case please clarify? There is a big difference between the two, and I think this is part of what makes SheerLuck's posts so confusing. Sheerluck, I suspect you are either confused or don't have a strong knowledge of Manhattan or both.

It would make more sense geographically if McNeil was found in the East River. The bar was on 2nd Ave and if heading to the East River, someone would turn left and walk towards 1st Ave, and across York and East End Ave to the East River. If heading to the Hudson River, you would have to go uphill and cross 2nd Ave, 3rd Ave, Lex, Park, Mad. Fifth and then cut through Central Park, go around the resevoir, cross Central Park West, Columbus Ave, Amsterdam, Broadway, West End Ave, Riverside Drive and then cross Riverside Park and then you reach the Hudson river.

Since McNeil's body was found in Brooklyn, I have to conclude he was actually found in the EAST river, but really hope someone could clarify this for me. I still would find it hard to believe he went to the East River, right by Gracie Mansion where there is a lot of security, trespassed and hopped a railing into the river. There is no way he could just tumble into the river at that location IMO.
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Masterj;I left NYC over 25 years ago and lived in the Bronx; not Manhattan or Brooklyn. I originally read Hudson River but now it says he was found near a pier in the harbor near Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. I really could care less about the McNeil case; he was wasted and probably leaned over a railing and drowned and now they file a bogus $20 million dollar lawsuit. The McNeils want $20 mil because their son chose to drink and get wasted; KTSP sat on their story for 8 months until sweeps week and Gannon opened up a brand new detective business after going broke following a dead end.
 
mysteriew said:
You know I have seen you make statements that "the families" are "keeping the BAC secret" several times. That really bugs you doesn't it? Yet you also insist that these drownings were all accidental. . quote]
I never said ALL the drownings are accidents; I said I think most of them are accidents, with a few that look like suicides and 3 or 4 that might be foul play. If this is a serial murder case; then Gannon is brilliant and some here have great intuition also. As for what families do; again; you're wrong about what I said. It doesn't bother me what they want to say; but downplaying the alcohol consumed and withholding BAC is the quickest way of telling people their kid was very drunk. My son drinks like a fish so if bad news comes; I'll know why and won't blame anyone else or bogusly sue for $20 million. I'll blame myself and his drinking; not his best friend or the bar he drank it. Bogus lawsuits bother me. By the way; does anyone know if Gannon gets a piece of the McNeils potential $20 mil?
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Blink34 said:
Agreed, I think he is confused and thinking about Patrick Martin, who was found in the Hudson.
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Ouch....you're right Blink. Oh and good post about why LE closes cases--you're exactly right. The set up is from the politicians who never want news of lurking danger in their city or town. If the cops ant a raise they follow the rules made by the politicians
 
SheerLuck said:
Masterj;I left NYC over 25 years ago and lived in the Bronx; not Manhattan or Brooklyn. I originally read Hudson River but now it says he was found near a pier in the harbor near Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. I really could care less about the McNeil case; he was wasted and probably leaned over a railing and drowned and now they file a bogus $20 million dollar lawsuit. The McNeils want $20 mil because their son chose to drink and get wasted; KTSP sat on their story for 8 months until sweeps week and Gannon opened up a brand new detective business after going broke following a dead end.
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SL...it's widely known that the body was found in Brooklyn. As I mentioned back in earlier posts that I found it difficult to believe he went in the Hudson as the body would have most likely ended up somewhere west of Manhattan. But, not knowing the currents and how the water moves I couldn't say where the point of entry was. No one knows. Brooklyn is a long way from the upper eastside. As far as the lawsuit which I also mentioned, it's illegal in the state to serve minors...if he had driven away and hurt someone the bar would have been liable, too. If it was my loved one who was injured, I'd sue, too! Parents get sued for serving underage kids alcohol...for having parties at their homes even if they're not there. The point is, IMO, If the parents believe that his night out partying ultimately led to the "murder" of their son...I'm ok with it.
 
Blink34 said:
SL-
Before I respond to your post I want to make sure I understand it-

1) Are you saying that the press exaggerated the level of drinking and then downplayed it at the end?

2) Please explain the "effort to not discuss the drinking openly." On whose part? Perhaps I am missing something, but I have seen you post before that families were witholding BAC- are you aware that the family does not determine what information is available to the public? That is based on the coroner/ME protocal and in some cases if a wrongful death is filed PRIOR to completion of the tox results, and a few other rarities, none I am aware of in these cases. Bottom line, unless there is a court order suppressing this information (and they have a time limit) all this info is public upon request.

I'm holding out until I see your responses, but from the guy who had these cases figured out from the beginning to use media accounts as a basis for coming to the same lame conclusion, easy-way out- I am confused yet again.
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Blink; I have to run back to work so I'll get back to you on this, but basically after studying over 50 cases, I don't think there are serial killer pods. I think 3 or 4 kids might have been killed; but I think Gannon went broke chasing a silly idea and 90% or more accidentally drowned. Fran had an interesting idea but I don't see professors as killers either. Why would teachers kill their students? People here have interesting ideas but to me accidents makes the most sense.
 
RR0004 said:
SL...it's widely known that the body was found in Brooklyn. As I mentioned back in earlier posts that I found it difficult to believe he went in the Hudson as the body would have most likely ended up somewhere west of Manhattan. But, not knowing the currents and how the water moves I couldn't say where the point of entry was. No one knows. Brooklyn is a long way from the upper eastside. As far as the lawsuit which I also mentioned, it's illegal in the state to serve minors...if he had driven away and hurt someone the bar would have been liable, too. If it was my loved one who was injured, I'd sue, too! Parents get sued for serving underage kids alcohol...for having parties at their homes even if they're not there. The point is, IMO, If the parents believe that his night out partying ultimately led to the "murder" of their son...I'm ok with it.
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I know what you mean, but Patrick McNeil chose to go out and drink. If his friend didn't serve him somone else would have; he was 20 and almost 21. No one forced him to drink. And the kid serving him was only 18; it was his friend and roommate from Fordham. McNeil was older than his friend. I hope the judge throws the case out. Do you know or does MasterJ know if Larry Andrews was found in same spot?

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/05/010198-larry-andrews-22new-york-ny.html
 
SheerLuck said:
I know what you mean, but Patrick McNeil chose to go out and drink. If his friend didn't serve him somone else would have; he was 20 and almost 21. No one forced him to drink. And the kid serving him was only 18; it was his friend and roommate from Fordham. McNeil was older than his friend. I hope the judge throws the case out. Do you know or does MasterJ know if Larry Andrews was found in same spot?

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/05/010198-larry-andrews-22new-york-ny.html
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In the same general vicinity, yes.
 
RR0004 said:
SL...come to the City and see for yourself...please! I'll even take the "walk" with you....truly!
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My dearest RR-
over my dead body are you taking a stroll with an anonymous poster without an escort, visa vie, Blink.

Your fondest B:blowkiss:
 
SheerLuck said:
I know what you mean, but Patrick McNeil chose to go out and drink. If his friend didn't serve him somone else would have; he was 20 and almost 21. No one forced him to drink. And the kid serving him was only 18; it was his friend and roommate from Fordham. McNeil was older than his friend. I hope the judge throws the case out. Do you know or does MasterJ know if Larry Andrews was found in same spot?

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/05/010198-larry-andrews-22new-york-ny.html
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He was not
 
Blink34 said:
My dearest RR-
over my dead body are you taking a stroll with an anonymous poster without an escort, visa vie, Blink.

Your fondest B:blowkiss:
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Luv ya, Blink!

Gosh...what it takes to make a point!!

PS- I thought both were found by the Narrows? Wouldn't be the first time a reporter didn't get it right.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292008/news/regionalnews/killer_gang_drowns_40__sleuths_108571.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C06E5D7133CF930A25751C0A96E958260
 
Back at ya RR!!

Must admit, my NY logistics are not the strongest, I was always a cab or "drive in myself" girl. I am reliant on the press (and you locals) for this area.
 
RR0004 said:
In the same general vicinity, yes.
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Do you know if near where they both were found; if there's a popular riverfront hangout? I've wondered if a lot of these kids might have walked down to popular hang out spots along rivers and accidentally fell in. In Albany, where Josh Szostak is said to have gone in; was a spot where people would go, but even closer to that spot is a popular river front park where lots of people hang out at and it's just 4/10th's of a mile from the bar he was drinking at; and without any fences. I really don't trust "river currents" and GPA tracking when a body is not found for 4 months; so this whole idea of determining where the body went in; is questionable to some. So RR, I'm think it's interesting 2 kids are found in almost identical spots a year apart. Not sure how close to Brooklyn you are or if you know the popular riverfront hangouts in Brooklyn or if maybe MasterJ does who also knows New York well; but I'm just wondering if theres a river front hangout spot without a fence near where these kids were found?
 
SheerLuck said:
Blink; I have to run back to work so I'll get back to you on this, but basically after studying over 50 cases, I don't think there are serial killer pods. I think 3 or 4 kids might have been killed; but I think Gannon went broke chasing a silly idea and 90% or more accidentally drowned. Fran had an interesting idea but I don't see professors as killers either. Why would teachers kill their students? People here have interesting ideas but to me accidents makes the most sense.
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Hi SL:

A professor has interaction with students, what better way to scope a victim.

I never said 'professor' was their 'main' job or occupation.

I never said they were ALL professors either, just that they worked in and around the colleges.

You do realize that ONE of the victims was a professor.

Just as an added note, we took much, albeit short, but interest in the bands and such at the bars. What would also be interesting is WHO OWNS the bars. Some of these bars COULD BE connected by SAME OWNER?????? I've seen several of these owners that had multiple establishments.

JMHO
fran
 
SheerLuck said:
I know what you mean, but Patrick McNeil chose to go out and drink. If his friend didn't serve him somone else would have; he was 20 and almost 21. No one forced him to drink. And the kid serving him was only 18; it was his friend and roommate from Fordham. McNeil was older than his friend. I hope the judge throws the case out. Do you know or does MasterJ know if Larry Andrews was found in same spot?

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/05/010198-larry-andrews-22new-york-ny.html
Click to expand...

FWIW, a few years ago, part of my children's band booster fund raiser activities was where the teens AND their parents worked at a local popular 'concert' venue. It was only opened during the late spring, summer, and early fall.

Part of our job was serving alcoholic drinks, ie beer, wine, margaritas and such. In order to 'sell alcohol,' we were required to take a short class given by the ABC board.

WE, individually would be held libel if we served a minor, not to mention the venue would loose their 'serving' license.

It was up to us, INDIVIDUALLY, to be sure that WE abided by the laws. IF we made a mistake, we could be taken away in handcuffs.

I don't know how other states handle it, but if this case were here, the bartender or server AND the bar or venue WOULD be held accountable.

They make laws for a reason

JMHO
fran
 
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