Defense document - KC swears she didn't report.......

[Brini]

If she had no reason to report her child missing because she thought she was safe with Zenaida- what about the trip to Tampa when Zenaida was injured? A lot of people have coinicdentally disappeared haven't they, or used false names- Jeffrey, Juliette, Zenaida, all the hospital staff who treated Zenaida, the reporting Police officer at the scene of the accident- did they ALL vanish at the same time as ZFG?

Yeah, but the Martians DID do that one. ;-)

 

[essies]

State: Casey Dismissal Motion 'Flawed'
Prosecution Asks Judge To Throw Out MotionPOSTED: Monday, October 5, 2009
UPDATED: 4:29 pm EDT October 5, 2009
<snipped>
Saying the defense's motion to dismiss was “legally flawed” and “inartfully” crafted, assistant state attorney Linda Drane Burdick asked the judge to strike the motion – meaning it should not be considered because it violated Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure.

“The flaws in Miss Anthony’s motion are glaring and fatal,” Drane Burdick wrote, saying Anthony herself would need to swear under oath to whatever facts she claims prove she is being illegally prosecuted.“The court cannot even begin to consider the motion because Miss Anthony has alleged no facts and had not sworn to any material facts,” the prosecutor claimed.

The defense motion did not include a sworn statement from Anthony.

“If and when Miss Anthony decides to swear to any or all material facts, the State of Florida will issue the response required,” the state said.
The state’s motion to strike goes on to say that even if its evidence is “all circumstantial,” the judge must wait until the close of all evidence at trial before ruling whether the charge should be dismissed.

So, these are the "material facts" that KC is willing to swear to?
Swearing that she did not report Caylee missing until her mother called on July 15, 2008, and that she told deputies she dropped Caylee off with a woman named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez?
Fact-She didn't want to report Caylee missing on July 15, 2008-her mother forced her to!!:furious:
Fact-she didn't drop Caylee off with ZFG - because the ZFG she alledges doesn't exist!!:banghead:
JB's motion is a waste-a huge waste of the courts time!!:loser:

 

[Tracey276]

Just an opinion here but I think I can see where the signed document by KC will be effective in planting 'reasonable' doubt if not total confusion in the court proceedings. It shows KC did not report Caylee missing because she (KC) did not consider her missing and truly believed she would get Caylee back until the time CA phoned the police. I think jurors will believe KC was a bad mother and made bad decisions but will not equate this with murder. I can also see that other evidence can be explained away to the point there is reasonable doubt created. I wonder why JB hasn't publically stated that Zanny (imaginary) had a key to KC's car? That would not be as crazy as most of his ramblings. I think KC will walk away from a murder charge. I have been researching other trials and the strategies used to confuse the evidence and this case will likely be the model case for defense tactics to muddy the waters. Just thinking that makes me very angry.

You know, this isn't really specifically geared towards your post as much as it is in general. Because I have heard this before. I can understand how some would think that what JB and assoc., are doing may be effective in muddying the waters. However, I, too have went and looked at a lot of cases to see if anything remotely compares to this case and if the possibility exists that KC could walk. I'm sorry, I just do NOT see that happening here. I think ANY juror or jury, looking at this case in it's totality will never be able to let KC walk. KC was Caylee's mother. She was responsible for protecting her, taking care of her and did not! Not only that, but once it was discovered KC did not know where Caylee was, whenever she even wants to admit that happened, look what she did, she lied, lied and lied some more. Why do people lie? Either to keep someone from finding something out that will cause you trouble, pain or grief, or to protect yourself. IF KC truly was EVER worried about Caylee at ANY time, she would have then told someone ALL she knew to help find her. it will, IMO, be more than glaringly obvious to all the jurors, that KC lied to cover because she KNOWS the truth would send her directly to the needle or prison for life. At this point, I don't think there is any ONE piece of evidence alone that would convict her. However, again, in totality, she is buried so deep, she is never leaving prison. And also, I really believe the SA does have a lot more and when we see it, relief will come and she will be convicted.

 

[Brini]

Just an opinion here but I think I can see where the signed document by KC will be effective in planting 'reasonable' doubt if not total confusion in the court proceedings. It shows KC did not report Caylee missing because she (KC) did not consider her missing and truly believed she would get Caylee back until the time CA phoned the police. I think jurors will believe KC was a bad mother and made bad decisions but will not equate this with murder. I can also see that other evidence can be explained away to the point there is reasonable doubt created. I wonder why JB hasn't publically stated that Zanny (imaginary) had a key to KC's car? That would not be as crazy as most of his ramblings. I think KC will walk away from a murder charge. I have been researching other trials and the strategies used to confuse the evidence and this case will likely be the model case for defense tactics to muddy the waters. Just thinking that makes me very angry.

Not gonna happen, honey.

Even if "Zanny" managed to get the remains into KC's car, and somehow forced her to drive it around with he decomposed remains...... how did "Zanny" manage to contact KC, without using a phone voice call, text message, or email, and without ever having a real address? (KC said she and/or Caylee often stayed with Zanny).

After the "accident" in Jacksonville, IIRC, KC said she went to Zanny's place to retrieve Zanny's insurance verification. To what address did she go?

 

[countzero]

The script, the 30 day script. IIRC, LP tried to get her to give him the paper script that zannie or the sister gave her at BP and whata ya know ...... it never materialized. Just like zannie. Or as I see it, never did any of the other's that KC named who she told about the kidnapping.

Oh and all those stories told between CA/GA and KC about the Tampa trip, more lies or in my opinion part of the coverup story. Never happened.

So regardless of JB's doing a c.y.a. to amend his motion for dismissal of all charges against KC; he and his crew can try to float as many more papers into the court system as he pleases cause it won't change who and what KC is and what she did.

If I were BC, I would put a mirror on my back so he can duck when JB is about to take a stab at him. Better yet, he should release his clients from their agreement. No amount of $$$ is worth it, BC. None.

 

[Brini]

"fear of the unknown" "fear of never seeing my daughter again"

Those are just two of her statements that I believe I recall almost verbatim. PattyG did a nice analysis of the written statement, here. Here are a few quotes from PattyG's post:

"I avoided calling the police, or even notifying my own family out of fear. I have been and still am afraid of what has, or may happen to Caylee.

I have been and still am afraid of what has , or may happen to Caylee. I have not had any contact with Zenaida since Thursday, June 12, 2008. I received a quick call from Zenaida.

Not once have I been able to ask her for my daughter, or gain any information on where I can find her."

"On Thursday, July 15, 2008 around 12pm, I received a phone call from my daughter, Caylee. Today was the first day I have heard her voice in over 4 weeks. I’m afraid of what Caylee is going through after 31 days, I know that the only thing that matters is getting my daughter back. (in red true statement)

With many and all attempts to contact Zenaida, and with the one short conversation, on June 12, 2008, I was never able to check on the status or well-being of my daughter.

Zenaida never made an attempt to explain why Caylee is no longer in Orlando, or is she is ever going to bring her home."

If this doesn't refresh everyone's memory adequately, I'll try to find a transcript of the audio of her LE interview at Universal.

So, since Caylee can no longer be protected, KC is now free to speak of what happened, right? ;-)

 

[milliac]

Respectfully sniped and BBM
I am trying to mainain faith in our legal system but it is difficult when more rights are given to criminals than the victims. We have become a loose and tolerant society and there is not much that shocks us into 'reasonable' conclusions.
JB needs only one thing to present to the jury to secure reasonable doubt and that is his client, the perp (moo) KC. The jury will be asked as we are to try to understand the mindset of a 'girl' (I feel he will use this term) who for whatever reason does not think as we think. That puts everyone in a position to look at all the evidence through the eyes of KC...not our good judgement. It will be impossible to reason things out according to the world of KC and this is where I think the jurors will see her as a pathetic excuse for a mother but not as a murderer. I may not be clear in my explanation as I am multitasking. Something I should not try before noon.

BBM

The thing is that our justice system requires the juror to think as a REASONABLE person, not to get into the mindset of the perp who was thinking and acting unreasonably. After preponderence of the evidence, would a reasonable person believe her story to likely be more true than not true?

 

[Brini]

I understand your concern, but I don't share it.

I have long since come to the firm conclusion that the only way reasonable doubt could be created is by asking all members of the jury to suspend the ability to think logically and reason things out to a natural conclusion. I find it impossible to allow 'cloudiness' to over-rule my common-sense, and I have faith in my fellow man and the jury's abilities to use their heads without giving undue weight to things the defense might toss out there - but that CAN'T be explained logicially.

In following this case on & offline for over a year, I have only ever discussed it with a handfull of people who lean towards reasonable doubt - 3 of whom just love to play Devil's Advocate for fun & brain exercise.

So we're back to the odds, just as we are with the duct tape, the Nanny, the script... I believe from the thousands of conversations I've read, watched and participated in - the odds are that people are much smarter than we think sometimes, and there aren't very many out there who would have reasonable doubt after viewing all of the evidence, behaviors and statements.

Have ye faith - for LOGIC will prevail!

Yep! And, I'm looking forward to the state's cross-exs!:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[Brini]

Respectfully sniped and BBM
I am trying to mainain faith in our legal system but it is difficult when more rights are given to criminals than the victims. We have become a loose and tolerant society and there is not much that shocks us into 'reasonable' conclusions.
JB needs only one thing to present to the jury to secure reasonable doubt and that is his client, the perp (moo) KC. The jury will be asked as we are to try to understand the mindset of a 'girl' (I feel he will use this term) who for whatever reason does not think as we think. That puts everyone in a position to look at all the evidence through the eyes of KC...not our good judgement. It will be impossible to reason things out according to the world of KC and this is where I think the jurors will see her as a pathetic excuse for a mother but not as a murderer. I may not be clear in my explanation as I am multitasking. Something I should not try before noon.

But, SOMEBODY killed Caylee. KC knows who, because she had last physical custody of Caylee. She cannot continue to claim that an entity whose non-existence has been proven did it. The jury will do a floor laugh. If they don't puke.

 

[BeanE]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...sey-anthony-grand-jury-100609,0,7743670.story
snipped
" But Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement.""
I am wondering if or how Casey's sworn statement confirming she dropped off her child with a person named ZFG affect the Civil Suit? Anyone?


IMO, These sworn statements do not add anything new, they only support the SA's motion that the Defense's motion to dismiss lacked sworn statements

BBM

Looks to me like KC's defense is going to be that Cindy and LE killed her baby. That she, KC, did everything she could to protect her poor kidnapped baby including NOT reporting her missing as the kidnappers' script dictated, and then when her bad bad mother Cindy put Caylee in danger, she (KC) told LE exactly who had kidnapped her baby so that LE could rescue her baby.

Yup, it's the old my mother and LE killed my baby (MMALKMB) defense.

 

[Brini]

Who did we hear this story from regardign the car accident? Was it from KC herself during her interview or in a written statement? It came from a third party - which means it could just be a lie and not even brought up in court - it is heresay.

I found the transcript:

But I can't link it here but here is what she said during the interview transcribed by me that JB may use at trial to show KC thought Caylee was fine and this is why she did not report her missing:

Q: Is there any underlining cause to why Z would take Caylee?
A: Only how much she loves Caylee and what a great kid she is.

Then she gives this answer as to why she didn't call police:

A: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously I couldn't. And I was scared something would happen to her if I did notify authorities or got the media involved. or my parents which I know would have done the same thing. Just the fear of the unknown. Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.

But this is what I am talking about her saying regarding her call with Caylee and her being fine:

Q: So, She seemed happy and..
A: a thousand times. She's fine.
Q: She's fine? She's happy?
A. She seemed perfectly fine.

later she says:
A: She wasn't the least bit upset when I spoke to her.

He then tells her if it were him he would have called police and she says:
A: I didn't know what to do. At that point I'm thinking, okay they haven't been gone that long. Maybe I can find them. Maybe I can track them down.

So we all know the phone call is a lie since the time of death is way before this, but what if JB says ZG could have been fooling her with Caylee's voice on the phone and that KC had her old phone that she lost when she got this call and therefore it could not be tracked.

The story of the accident came from KC to CA.

 

[Macushla]

Correct in all areas of your post Friday but consider the bolded part of your statement. Are these the actions of a responsible adult? I do not think the jury will have 'sympathy' on KC. I think they will see so much "ugly" coping as JB has coined, the focus will be on KC's inability to see anything sinister in the beginning regarding the imaginary nanny. I am not taking a stand on innocence and I am certainly not excusing KC. More to the point, I believe her to be self-centered and truly evil and guilty (moo). I am just thinking on the keyboard right now after seeing this document signed by KC put out there by her attorney.

There in lies the rub - in that bolded by me statement. Any crime committed by any young (20 something) person (robbery, muder, burglary, etc.) are NOT the actions of a responsible adult. A responsible adult would not committ a crime. If JB goes this route, he is in deep trouble. I think everyone (and I am including future jurors) has at some point in time had to deal with adversity and most of us acted like responsible adults. I don't think she is going to get any sympathy because she 'didn't act like a responsible adult. We are not talking about a minor infraction here, we are talking murder. Her looks and her age might help her avoid the death penalty, but her actions from June 16th on and going to go a long way to help convict her.

Keep playing devil's advocate - it makes for interesting reading and posting!

 

[Brini]

it is a welll known fact casey is a compulsive liar. that in itself does not make a murderer. yet, her carefree behavior at time of caylee missing puts her in the light of a mom who is without a care in the world. her excuse could be she really thought casey was ok with whoever had her. that cancels out her saying she had to play a script out or things could go wrong . she is her own worst enemy as twisted words can play both ways. it can convict her or if she played it right it could have defended her. if casey had plans to human traffic her daughter and get paid it could have took the 30 days to have caylee be relocated , sold and her to get money. before her birth she wanted to give her up. the thing that confuses some is the pics that show her as a loving mom. smiles, hugs, caylee was dressed to look like a lil model. cindy could have been part of this. the pics will be used to show caylee was well loved and not lacking clothes or toys, the house looks immaculate. then we found out caylee had been dead almost from day one of her actually missing. lead to jurry thinking - ok mom did it or someone else freaked out with fear and killed her . who? family, stranger, the one person we may not know of yet who was to coordinate a fake -real human traffic pay off to casey. b oy- the juror must be open minded to consider all weird possible crazy theories. i do not think cindy or george are in any way part of the death once they may have known she was dead they could have done some cover upto protect their daughter . yet-- i feel they did not know of death till we did. i consider a human trafficking arranged by casey gone wrong. maybe the attorneys will see this post and think- oh yeah-- thats a new defense!! casey not a killer just a mom who wanted to give up baby and mom of hers said no! so-- the story continues to ----- whatever the atty could use.

There is no evidence, whatever, of human trafficking. That would have required some kind of electronic communication between the traffickers and KC. LE examined every single text message, tracked back every single phone call, and confiscated all email devices. Nothing like that was found.

There is. however, a ton of evidence pointing to a murder, by KC, on the 16th, between about noon and early evening.

 

[Mensch]

I am sort-of offended that KC might be seen as a "child raising a child" or a teen with too much responsibility. I am KC's age, far from a child or a teen. Now, I do not have kids but if I did, my life would change for that child. KC did nothing to change her life for Caylee. She was purposely irresponsible because she did not care. Her age had nothing to do with it. I think a jury will see right through that sort of defense because there are much younger girls than KC giving birth these days and managing somehow NOT to kill their children in horrific manners and dumping their poor little bodies in the woods. KC just has something seriously wrong with her.

yeknomaras, it was certainly not my intention to offend anyone or to imply my observations and or opinions were fact. I am only trying to see the case as JB the diabolical might present his case. I can only say that KC as I have seen in the media acts like a spoiled irresponsible child rather than an adult. Personally I know of teenage girls who have babies and continue to finish school and work part time to take care of their children even though they have the full financial and emotional support of their own parents. It is for this reason I believe some, including members of the jury will see KC as imature, not insane in her thinking therefore viewing the evidence through her eyes rather than the eyes of reality and reason. My apologies for any offense I have caused.

 

[Brini]

countzero, you and others here make excellent points. I am just playing devil's advocate (sort of) and trying to look at it from a strategic point of view. Trying to figure out the strategy defense. I am in no way disputing what is logical and reasonable as we have seen here.
As to the duct tape? If the duct tape, laundry basket and other items belonged to the Anthonys and were found in the Anthony car - this IS logical. I keep a laundry basket in my car. I also have tools there and at the moment some masking tape in that tool box. If my things come up missing from my car and used for illegal purposes and they are traced back to my car, that may make me a suspect, but not a criminal. All JB has to do is convince jurors that others , including the (imaginary) nanny had a key or access to the car.

p.s. you guys are good! Too bad your hats are not in the jury pool!

No. He also has to prove that said nanny ever existed. There is too much proof that she doesn't. Both the OCSD and the FBI agree to that.

If she wants to do SODDI, she has to NAME said SOD, and give the who, where, when, and why. She can't.

 

[Brini]

Correct in all areas of your post Friday but consider the bolded part of your statement. Are these the actions of a responsible adult? I do not think the jury will have 'sympathy' on KC. I think they will see so much "ugly" coping as JB has coined, the focus will be on KC's inability to see anything sinister in the beginning regarding the imaginary nanny. I am not taking a stand on innocence and I am certainly not excusing KC. More to the point, I believe her to be self-centered and truly evil and guilty (moo). I am just thinking on the keyboard right now after seeing this document signed by KC put out there by her attorney.

You might be interested in reviewing some of our SODDI threads.

We literally beat an entire herd of horses to death, trying to make a SODDI defense work.

 

[robotdog]

But, SOMEBODY killed Caylee. KC knows who, because she had last physical custody of Caylee. She cannot continue to claim that an entity whose non-existence has been proven did it. The jury will do a floor laugh. If they don't puke.

they will probably do both

 

[Brini]

State: Casey Dismissal Motion 'Flawed'
Prosecution Asks Judge To Throw Out MotionPOSTED: Monday, October 5, 2009
UPDATED: 4:29 pm EDT October 5, 2009
<snipped>
Saying the defense's motion to dismiss was “legally flawed” and “inartfully” crafted, assistant state attorney Linda Drane Burdick asked the judge to strike the motion – meaning it should not be considered because it violated Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure.

“The flaws in Miss Anthony’s motion are glaring and fatal,” Drane Burdick wrote, saying Anthony herself would need to swear under oath to whatever facts she claims prove she is being illegally prosecuted.“The court cannot even begin to consider the motion because Miss Anthony has alleged no facts and had not sworn to any material facts,” the prosecutor claimed.

The defense motion did not include a sworn statement from Anthony.

“If and when Miss Anthony decides to swear to any or all material facts, the State of Florida will issue the response required,” the state said.
The state’s motion to strike goes on to say that even if its evidence is “all circumstantial,” the judge must wait until the close of all evidence at trial before ruling whether the charge should be dismissed.

So, these are the "material facts" that KC is willing to swear to?
Swearing that she did not report Caylee missing until her mother called on July 15, 2008, and that she told deputies she dropped Caylee off with a woman named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez?
Fact-She didn't want to report Caylee missing on July 15, 2008-her mother forced her to!!:furious:
Fact-she didn't drop Caylee off with ZFG - because the ZFG she alledges doesn't exist!!:banghead:
JB's motion is a waste-a huge waste of the courts time!!:loser:

You KNOW the state's LInda is filing her teeth, while waiting for those sworn statements.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

From page 9, lines 22-23, "And after about 7 o’clock when I still hadn’t heard anything I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic."

Quoted from lin's post...

IIRC, she then stated she went to a "neutral place," TL's apartment. Obviously he'll testify as to how upset she was and he calmed her down by taking her to rent some videos... (Sorry, sarcasm got the better of me.)

Fact is, Casey's statements are both true and false. It's true she didn't report her child missing until her mother did so...

She told LE that she dropped Caylee off with the nanny... What happened to the Blanchard Park story? Oh, right, she didn't tell that tale to LE...

Fact is, Casey's pack-and-a-half of lies are going to sink her ship when countered by facts which include the Blockbuster Video and hopefully JT's testimony (and I'm hoping we get more info on that).

JB & Co. could have picked out anything Casey told LE to put in the affidavit and they wouldn't provide substantial facts which clearly prove she has been wrongly accused.

It's an eerie comparison to Scott Peterson. The only physical evidence in that case were some of Laci's hairs in a pair of pliers on his boat. Caylee's hair, with possible death band (as opposed to other hairs in the trunk) plus items from the A home plus the duct tape match plus the presence of said duct tape over the skull provide a ton more physical evidence.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I understand the process of playing "devil's advocate", it helps me to clear my head to what I really understand. Take this post in that spirit.

(just a theory that can surly be picked apart. Please do!

Casey's "script" was the same as the Ramsey's "Do what we say and we won't harm your child. Don't do what we say..."

And both did the same thing: acted like the "kidnappers" must not have liked that they did not "follow the script" and so the child was killed. In the case of the Ramsey's they kept/took JonBenet's body and put it in the Ramsey's basement...

Is Casey/JB going to say that Caylee might have been returned alive if not for the phone call? And my other personality says: that does not matter, no matter what they come up with as an excuse...no one is going to buy it when they hear the rest of the story...

And Zanny put Caylee near the Anthony's home. I had this idea in my notes and when I saw a poster say their theory that maybe Casey is going to say the "one more day" was what she needed to complete her "31" days...and because she was forced to contact LE: Zanny killed Caylee.

Now. I also remember Casey saying "50" days at one point...maybe even 51 days...Casey saying that Zanny wanted to "teach her a lesson." I definitely agree that the tone of the "kidnapping" went from "oh, don't worry...I'll be getting her back when Zanny is done punishing me" to "I am afraid of what will happen to Caylee."

When Casey says she spoke to Caylee on the 15th July she claims that Caylee was "happy and talking about her shoes/book."

I also agree that we are sleuthers and that is what we are doing...but when a jury hears one bit of this story...Casey has no chance. I just wonder if the jury will be screaming for Cindy's "blood"...like I feel. If I were on that jury...after we convicted Casey I'd say: "now it's Cindy's turn."



:cow: