Defense Taphonomy Expert

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Intermezzo said:
bbm
IMO
Baez wasted much of this motion "bickering" over what the State has and complaining about the Prosecutor.

:twocents:
Click to expand...

sadly that is their standard arguement...they start off all that way....
 
If the state has two experts in the same field but they are going to testify to two different areas and the defense has one expert in the same field but who can testify in both these areas to create reasonable doubt why would defense need two experts for the same testimony. It would be redundant. jmo
 
Intermezzo said:
O/T but I always loved Debate in high school and learning how to debate, properly...Baez obviously did not take that class.

IMO Baez's argument/motion to appoint a Taphonomy Expert is weak at best.

He showed no true need for such an expert, he presented no compelling argument.

:twocents:
Click to expand...

The ole "we want one, we are entitled to one" falls flat when the judge has already approved one expert that covers that field of expertise. What Baez really wants are two experts of "his choice" and Casey is not entitled to that. At least not having the JAC pay for two.

And, this motion sure isn't timely and deadlines have now passed. Baez can use a Taphonomy expert, but I do hope that CJPerry doesn't go ahead and approve one to be paid at this late date.
 
LambChop said:
If the state has two experts in the same field but they are going to testify to two different areas and the defense has one expert in the same field but who can testify in both these areas to create reasonable doubt why would defense need two experts for the same testimony. It would be redundant. jmo
Click to expand...

It's sounding like Baez is whining, "They have more experts than we do, Judge. That's not fair!" Like it's the amount of experts that is going to make a difference here. Baez could have all the experts on the planet and that still wouldn't get Casey out of jail. I swear, he whines about the stupidest things. I wish he would quit being so schoolyard about a capital murder case! This is something to be serious about, not something to keep complaining about!
 
I have this little sign in my office that reads Remain Calm. That is what I think about this.
Jeff Ashton and Linda Drane Burdick have been prosecutors for twenty years. Several times a week, often several witnesses a day, they cross examine experts. When you do something for twenty years, you become damn good at it.

The more witnesses the defense calls to the stand, the more Mr. Ashton and Mrs. Drane-Burdick will have the opportuntity to actually make the defense witness work against Casey's defense theories. This will backfire on Baez and Cheney, in ways that would be tough to measure.

They never seem to think things all the way through. Like their client, they live ten minutes at at time, imo.

If I were them, I would be thinking of the ineviteable worst case scenerio. What if the state gets them to admit X Y and Z? How damaging could that be? How much credibility do we lose by calling yet another dude to the stand that also gets thoroughly discredited? We are up against expert, career prosecutors , perhaps we should review how they have cross examined experts in their 20 years of doing so to understand the likely tactics.

I'd be willing to bet my life savings that a high school football team takes more time researching and preparing their game plan about the other team than the defense does studying these prosecutors and predicting what they will do, in order to be properly prepared.

Judge Perry often reminds them they need to get the investigating wrapped up; because, they need a lot of time to prepare their trial strategy. Forgive me for being so blunt, but due to a mixture of ignorance ( I mean a literal lack of experience on the part of Baez) and hubris ( the extreme argogance of Cheney) they will remain unprepared for the inevitable expert cross examinations. As the defense experts get shot down one by one, the defense will lose credibility with the jury. That is certain. If you have ever seen a jury interviewed after a trial, they often opine that this is what they thought of the various and sundry experts...it seemed the defense was desperate, it blurred together after awhile, yada, yada, yada, also they just seemed like hired guns.

Ouch!!!

In my opinion, they learned nothing by Cindy Anthony taking the stand and using their own words in their pleadings against them.
They looked down and often annoyed as she contradicted them. "It wasn't planned, I didn't plan out what to say, I was pulling through my memory of everything that had happened that day, I cannot explain how the mind works when you are in shock, under stress, etc." she testified. If you recall, they had tried to seize on her prior claim in the media that she purposely said things to effectuate getting police to her home sooner, implying she was not under any stress but rather using this ploy as a tactic.
That all blew up when she testified otherwise, blew up alright....in biblical proportions.

Therefore all of the king's horses and all of the defense experts will boomerang on the defense. It will be a disaster for law students to study, well into the future. If I had to pick the lesser of the two evils, I would much rather see the defense bring on too many experts than spend time and money harassing the good, hardworking, volunteers of TES!

I want them to have no appeal issue, whatsoever. If they want this expert, fine.
So, my opinion....in slang, is....... bring it on.
I have my "Another One Bites The Dust " song cued up, good to go.
 
I just read Baez's motion again...

Part 6 is the ONLY section in which he actually appeals or argues (if one considers that a compelling argument For) the reason the Defense should be granted a Taphonomy Expert.

"The Defense maintains its previous position that, since a key and central issue in this matter involves the decomposition process and the State is attempting to assert broad, overreaching and sometimes outrageous arguments involving the time of death and placement of the remains of Caylee Anthony, there is a critical need for a taphonomist to rebut the State arguments and that the Defense would be significantly prejudiced by the denial of such an expert."

Parts 1&2 are background information or history

Part 3,4,5 & even 6 Baez talks about the State and Jeff Ashton (mostly bickering and school yard pettiness IMO) and a bit about their depo with the SAO Anthropologist...

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/65687741/20101124-Defense-Motion-to-Appoint-Expert-in-Taphonomy
 
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6532917...Defense-Motion-to-Appoint-Expert-in-Taphonomy
JAC's Response

Questions from JAC that I EXPECT Baez to answer since we the Taxpayers of Florida are paying for ICA's defense...

IMO Baez should have addressed these in his Motion.

1. The Defense must show a particularized need for this expert

2. JAC notes that the Defense already has a panoply of experts, among them a pre-eminent Forensic Anthropologist

3. A showing must be made that these defense experts are unable to testify as to this matter
----------------------------------------

Always remember the words written by JAC

"While an indigent defendant has a due process right to the assistance of experts in his or her defense, that right is not unfettered (Lavender vs State).

The right is limited to experts that are relevant and necessary to the defense of the case.

The defendant is not entitled to a specific expert or one of his or her "personal liking", but is only entitled to the services of a competent expert (Walls vs State)

The use of out of state providers is unnecessary and unreasonable where there are competent experts in the field available withing the State.
 
Intermezzo said:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6532917...Defense-Motion-to-Appoint-Expert-in-Taphonomy
JAC's Response

Questions from JAC that I EXPECT Baez to answer since we the Taxpayers of Florida are paying for ICA's defense...

IMO Baez should have addressed these in his Motion.

1. The Defense must show a particularized need for this expert

2. JAC notes that the Defense already has a panoply of experts, among them a pre-eminent Forensic Anthropologist

3. A showing must be made that these defense experts are unable to testify as to this matter
----------------------------------------

Always remember the words written by JAC

"While an indigent defendant has a due process right to the assistance of experts in his or her defense, that right is not unfettered (Lavender vs State).

The right is limited to experts that are relevant and necessary to the defense of the case.

The defendant is not entitled to a specific expert or one of his or her "personal liking", but is only entitled to the services of a competent expert (Walls vs State)

The use of out of state providers is unnecessary and unreasonable where there are competent experts in the field available withing the State.
Click to expand...

To good to snip any of it. The defense is just whining again that the court is being unfair to this client. What is with this tit for tat position that the defense always has to do. Also in the Defense Motion (Page 3, Part 6)
The defense states that the State is asserting broad, overreaching and sometimes outrageous arguing time of death and placement of the remains of Caylee Anthony. IMO as far as I can tell from reading all the defense motions and hearing the defense interviews they are the ones doing this fact. So I must say this entire motion is useless making an argument for this expert and if this motion had been made back in May of this year when it was heard at the budget hearing and done soon after this could all have been handle and decided upon. :banghead:
 
Intermezzo said:
bbm
IMO
Baez wasted much of this motion "bickering" over what the State has and complaining about the Prosecutor.

:twocents:
Click to expand...

Aedrys said:
It's sounding like Baez is whining, "They have more experts than we do, Judge. That's not fair!" Like it's the amount of experts that is going to make a difference here. Baez could have all the experts on the planet and that still wouldn't get Casey out of jail. I swear, he whines about the stupidest things. I wish he would quit being so schoolyard about a capital murder case! This is something to be serious about, not something to keep complaining about!
Click to expand...

Just read this motion. ugh! I really, really hate this kind of juvenile BS. Their whole point is lost amongst the "nanny-nanny-boo-boo, I know you are so what am I?" kindergarten mentality. HHJP will rule according to the law & in the interest of Casey getting a fair trial, but the tone will not go unnoticed.

It is apparent that this is not going to change so I would advise JB to at least get good at it. I have seen attorneys write motions that would rip another to shreds but the tone would still be professional. My mama used to call it being "nasty nice". It is an art...a writing skill...and can be quite effective, IF you are good at it. ;)

Oh and fwiw, except for the taxpayer money, I don't give a flying care if this is approved or not. As TWA said, bring 'em on. Just another cross-exam and witness for JA to shoot down.
 
jon_burrows said:
I've always felt that having Caylee's remains cremated was a ploy by the defense to be able to say later, "See, Casey didn't want her to be cremated and now we can't perform tests. She can't get a fair trial." We all know Casey's idea of a proper burial (two black trash bags, a laundry bag, and a little toddler's face plastered with duct tape dumped in a swampy, trashy area). I've always felt Jose's little speech about Casey not wanting her remains cremated was all for show in case they needed it as an excuse during trial.

IMO
Click to expand...

I'm wondering, having just buried a loved one. if their primary motivation to cremate rather than bury wasn't financial. I know what JB said, I just don't believe he has that brilliant a legal mind to think that far ahead plus the A's were / are / have always been struggling financially.
I think if anything he would have been glad to have the remains cremated so the SAO couldn't do any further tests after the ME couldn't determine a cause of death at the original autposy.
Who knows though. He made a huge deal that his experts weren't allowed to walk hand in hand with LE as they processed the scene as though it's normal to know at the time a body is discovered, who would be accused of the crime or if it even was one, and if it was who their lawyer would be and finally who their choice of forensic experts would be.
 
I don't think cost had anything to do with why the Anthony's had Caylee cremated.
Even as angry as people were with them, there would have been plenty of people that would have stepped up to the plate to have made donations to a funeral home of their choice for services, etc.
As a matter of fact, didn't that funeral home donate their services to begin with??
They let little Caylee sit on a shelf in that strip mall funeral home for how long before doing anything?

I think before the ink was dry on the custody of Caylee's remains that was signed by either George or Cindy, or, both, that arrangements had been made for her to be cremated.
They didn't want to take a chance of a 2nd autopsy ever coming back to bite them ~ Not that there was anything to autopsy in the first place.
But, IMO, rest assured, Caylee was bones in those woods for close to 6 months, and, once found, and released to the Anthony's, they made sure there was nothing left ~
And, I'll even go a step further and say that in my opinion, it was done long before the memorial was finally held.

Casey's "press release via Baez" was phoney.
She made that remark to cover her arse, just like she has always done in the past.
She didn't care that her baby laid in those woods, and, she didn't care that she sat on a shelf either, for that matter.
Well, yes, actually, she did, for the reasons that I have said ~
But, it certainly wasn't because she wanted to have a place to visit Caylee when she "gets out of jail".
Cause if that's the reason, then, she can take Caylee's remains with her in her roving RV Craft/Religion Traveling Show.

Like that is ever going to happen, either. {JMO}

~ These people are just unexcusable and unexplainable. ~
 
Thank you Intermezzo for posting the JAC opinion.
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5885136&postcount=88"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Defense Taphonomy Expert[/ame]


I love the JAC lawyer,
the facts
just the facts!

http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/26065082/detail.html

http://traffic.outbrain.com/network...qType=1&wid=103&imgType=0&version=6.5.1&idx=0

This reminds me of one of the hearings when Linda Drane Burdick, frustrated with the defense filings told the judge

your honor, this is legally insufficeint for the court to even entertain, wrong on the facts and wrong on the law, the motion itself is internally inconsistient. Indeed the entire motion is replete with errors from top to bottom. We ask that the court strike it. If the defense wants to go back and prepare a proper motion by the legal requirements, they are free to do so at a later date. Right now, it doesn't even come close....it is.....a farce! I remember the two inerns sitting on the defense side of the courtroom listening to her.. the look on their faces was priceless!
I believe Attorney Richard Hornsby had it right when he opined, "Baez has become a clown, a legal clown".

If you haven't seen it in awhile, it is a favorite of mine, check it out!!!

Rest assured friends, Baez is no match for these prosecutors. Frankly neither is Cheney up to the task, not in what Judge Strickland refered to as "Tight boots"!
If I live to be one hundred I will never see a man in cowboy boots without thinking of that hysterical parting shot!

You just can't make this stuff up![ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae5J_ObjkTw[/ame]

O/T it was at the very beginning of this tape when Judge Strickland gave the defense until February 2010 to produce the witness Todd claimed to have that prove Caylee's body was not in the woods until she was jailed. As we all know, despite everything, they have been unable to do so. Still.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
16th president of the United States of America (1809 - 1865)
 
P1569 said:
To good to snip any of it. The defense is just whining again that the court is being unfair to this client. What is with this tit for tat position that the defense always has to do. Also in the Defense Motion (Page 3, Part 6)
The defense states that the State is asserting broad, overreaching and sometimes outrageous arguing time of death and placement of the remains of Caylee Anthony. IMO as far as I can tell from reading all the defense motions and hearing the defense interviews they are the ones doing this fact. So I must say this entire motion is useless making an argument for this expert and if this motion had been made back in May of this year when it was heard at the budget hearing and done soon after this could all have been handle and decided upon. :banghead:
Click to expand...

bbm
The same conjecture can be made about the Defense.

One can easily argue that the Defense's own scheme, I mean speculation, about Kronk being a suspect and that Caylee's remains was not on Suburban yet placed in it's final resting place while Casey was in Jail is broad, overreaching and sometimes outrageous.
Then add to that the Defense spent, IMO wasted, precious time and taxpayer dollars on the TES fishing expedition trying to drill for oil in order to help support their own outrageous scheme.
:twocents:
 
Purple Iris said:
I don't think cost had anything to do with why the Anthony's had Caylee cremated.
Even as angry as people were with them, there would have been plenty of people that would have stepped up to the plate to have made donations to a funeral home of their choice for services, etc.
As a matter of fact, didn't that funeral home donate their services to begin with??
They let little Caylee sit on a shelf in that strip mall funeral home for how long before doing anything?

I think before the ink was dry on the custody of Caylee's remains that was signed by either George or Cindy, or, both, that arrangements had been made for her to be cremated.
They didn't want to take a chance of a 2nd autopsy ever coming back to bite them ~ Not that there was anything to autopsy in the first place.
But, IMO, rest assured, Caylee was bones in those woods for close to 6 months, and, once found, and released to the Anthony's, they made sure there was nothing left ~
And, I'll even go a step further and say that in my opinion, it was done long before the memorial was finally held.

Casey's "press release via Baez" was phoney.
She made that remark to cover her arse, just like she has always done in the past.
She didn't care that her baby laid in those woods, and, she didn't care that she sat on a shelf either, for that matter.
Well, yes, actually, she did, for the reasons that I have said ~
But, it certainly wasn't because she wanted to have a place to visit Caylee when she "gets out of jail".
Cause if that's the reason, then, she can take Caylee's remains with her in her roving RV Craft/Religion Traveling Show.

Like that is ever going to happen, either. {JMO}

~ These people are just unexcusable and unexplainable. ~
Click to expand...

Caylee's cremation had nothing to do with cost or going against Casey's wishes, not even to avoid a second autopsy (thought that was probably a bonus to the Anthony's, I'm sure). The reason was pure selfishness. If she wasn't cremated, she'd get a headstone and a place to be buried, which would be visited time and again by those who never met her but loved her. The Anthony's couldn't have that. No way are they EVER going to share her with anyone. Cremated, her remains become their property, and no one gets to mourn at her graveside. It was pure selfishness as why to she was cremated, and I hate them for that even now.

Not even in death when they are sacrificing her for Casey over and over are they letting her go and letting her be shared with anyone. No final resting place except in jewelry, and CA doesn't even wear hers anymore. I don't know if GA or Lee wears theirs either (Did leave have some Caylee jewelry? I can't remember). I cannot get over how selfish these people are, and denying Caylee a grave is about one of the most selfish things that they have ever done. I will never forgive them for that. I'm sure Casey will have entire graveyard to herself, named after her, when she dies. But poor little innocent Caylee got NOTHING. *sigh* At least she's in heaven now, and they have no control of her there and will NEVER have control of her again.

Plus, it works right into Cindy's denial, and I'm sure Casey's as well. If there's no grave to mourn at, then Caylee can still be alive somewhere. I just know that's another reason that they had her cremated, to wipe what happened under the rug and to be able to continue to support Casey even with Caylee's ashes worn as jewelry on their bodies. And Casey can continue her fantasies of Zanny having Caylee or Caylee being alive out there because there's no evidence left of Caylee being dead. It's all just so sick and such an injustice against Caylee and her memory. How these people can say they ever loved her is beyond me. All she was was a possession, a piece of property, even in death. *sigh again*

As for the taphonomy expert, like the great TWA said, bring 'em on. TWA, thanks is not enough for your post. It was brilliant, and gave me even more confidence about this case and how it's going to turn out. Bring on all the experts you can, Baez! I have total faith that it's not going to matter one bit. The prosecution will tear this expert apart just like the rest of them.
 
I just thought of something else JB said at the last hearing regarding his experts "reports" or lack of them.

He said that they wouldn't be writing reports because that would be "redundant"....basically, defined as "unnecessary REPETITION in expressing ideas".
If I'm not mistaken, he's in essence saying that his experts weren't going to be doing reports because everything thats been said - in the OTHER (prosecution)experts "reports" is the same thing the defense experts are saying???? As in, they came to the same conclusions as the prosecution experts...as in, they won't be refuting the prosecutions findings and reports?? Therefore, the claims set forth by the prosecution/DA's office are what it is??
So there goes the "body was placed there when KC was in jail" defense...? And the area wasn't under water claims...and other searchers didn't see the body when they searched, etc.
Soooo....the defense has wasted AND inconvenienced the judge....the prosecution...the TES searchers....countless others (and us...LOL)... with their mindless nonsense.
We've come to expect their exceptional level and sterling example of incompetence....good thing they NEVER fail to disappoint!!

ETA : Soooo...one would ask....if their experts reports would be "redundant"...why would he believe a Taphonomy expert would be any different??? Just "fishing" for ANY type of "expert" who might say something contrary to the prosecution experts??
Didn't like the prosecution's DNA reports....so have to try "touch DNA".....which, IMO, is kinda, to use JB's words, "junk science".
 
CA is contrary...allegedly, ICA wanted her buried with a headstone so she can visit Caylee...(as if she'll walk out of prison :innocent:)...then CA went on to say, she didn't want anyone to "vandalize" Caylee's grave, she was protecting Caylee...she did this purely to show she is still in control. No one would have done that to Caylee, vandalize her grave... There will be no need to have Caylee's remains examined further ( Dr. G kept a piece of Caylee's leg bone for this purpose)...there's always an ulterior motive where CA is concerned. JMHO
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...ther-caseywftv-channel-9s-kathi-belich-s.html


Casey Anthony's Statement On Caylee's Memorial
Posted: 4:24 pm EST February 9, 2009
Updated: 4:50 pm EST February 9, 2009

The following is the transcript of a news conference held by Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, on Monday, February 9. He is the only person who spoke and read a statement from Casey.

This is a statement by my client and she's authorized me to a make a statement to the public with regards to tomorrow's memorial.

I miss Caylee every day and every minute of every day. I can't be there for Caylee's funeral, but some day I want to go and visit her grave and tell her how much I miss her.

I allowed my parents to be in charge for the funeral for Caylee. I told them I wanted her buried in a casket and I wanted there to be a gravestone so I could go and visit her. I asked them if there could only be a private funeral for just the family.

I know they cremated her. I still don't want a public event with cameras and everybody around for Caylee's service, but I can't stop my parents from doing what they want. I truly hope that it will help them.
Click to expand...
http://www.wftv.com/news/18675431/detail.html

Frye Hearing for experts
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/exp08.htm

Here is the motion..."we obviously don't want to pay for someone who is not a recognized scientist"...page 2, first paragraph
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/65687741/20101124-Defense-Motion-to-Appoint-Expert-in-Taphonomy

I also must have missed the Frye Hearing when this tapophony expert. Isn't this a fairly new field/expert? The defense already has an anthropologist on board as an expert witness...JAC mentions that in the above motion, so why is Baez (or is he) getting this expert witness?

When did this stand up to the Frye hearing???
see above document...I surely missed it?

Justice for Caylee
 
The defense has included Kathy Reichs on their witness list. I'm wondering why she can't be used to cover the taphonomy subject, afterall she wrote a book which included that area of study.
 
MyTinkieGirl said:
I just thought of something else JB said at the last hearing regarding his experts "reports" or lack of them.

He said that they wouldn't be writing reports because that would be "redundant"....basically, defined as "unnecessary REPETITION in expressing ideas".
If I'm not mistaken, he's in essence saying that his experts weren't going to be doing reports because everything thats been said - in the OTHER (prosecution)experts "reports" is the same thing the defense experts are saying???? As in, they came to the same conclusions as the prosecution experts...as in, they won't be refuting the prosecutions findings and reports?? Therefore, the claims set forth by the prosecution/DA's office are what it is??
So there goes the "body was placed there when KC was in jail" defense...? And the area wasn't under water claims...and other searchers didn't see the body when they searched, etc.
Soooo....the defense has wasted AND inconvenienced the judge....the prosecution...the TES searchers....countless others (and us...LOL)... with their mindless nonsense.
We've come to expect their exceptional level and sterling example of incompetence....good thing they NEVER fail to disappoint!!

ETA : Soooo...one would ask....if their experts reports would be "redundant"...why would he believe a Taphonomy expert would be any different??? Just "fishing" for ANY type of "expert" who might say something contrary to the prosecution experts??
Didn't like the prosecution's DNA reports....so have to try "touch DNA".....which, IMO, is kinda, to use JB's words, "junk science".
Click to expand...
...or they're will automatically refute the State's experts...and I don't know if that necessarily needs to be based in fact...just BS.
 
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