Detail From Kolar's Book

[dogperson]

I've always believed Burke & JonBenet were down there playing....that BD was abusive in many ways & the family knew about it

Those gifts being peeked at: that's what a kid does..

Redressing JBR in those too-big panties: that's what a kid does that doesn't know better & is covering his tracks....... he knew they were there because he'd ripped back those present's wrapping to peek....

'What did you find?'.....

Not just a dead sister - but opened presents, & his knife....

JMO[/QUOTE

I agree that Burke is the most logical candidate for exchanging the normal-sized Wednesday panties for the too-large Wednesday panties. An adult would realize that other adults would notice that the panties were way too big. But a kid trying to "put things back like normal" might not think of that. All he would know is that she had on Wednesday panties before the assault but now these had to be hidden/done away with and that there was another pack of these panties in the house that said Wednesday on them. It was an attempt to hide whatever had gone on below the waist. Since Burke is known to have opened presents meant for other people than him, he probably was aware the other pack of day-of-the-week panties existed.

If Patsy had been the one to assault JBR then she could have replaced the original Wednesday panties with any other panties in JBRs dresser. John likely didn't know what panties JBR had been wearing that night and would have no idea they said. But if John or any other adult somehow realized the panties had been switched then all Patsy would have had to do is say JBR wet them and they had to be changed.

If John did the assault we can see why he might find it difficult to explain why the original Wednesday panties were missing but I don't think he'd be dumb enough to think he could fool Patsy with the too large Wednesday panties. If he needed to dispose of the original panties then he'd be better off not replacing them with anything. That would have pointed to an intruder/perpetrator taking them away from the scene but redressing JBR in the too large Wednesday panties from inside his own house would do nothing but point suspicion back to him. Besides that, I doubt John even knew another pack of day-of-the-week panties even existed in the house. He probably didn't know or care what type of items Patsy shopped for or whether she bought two sets of these panties: one for JBR and one for a niece.

And as for an intruder switching the panties, what would be the point? He wouldn't have even known about the extra pack of panties and even if he did, why would he bother to redress her in a similar pair? If an intruder did this (which I don't believe) then he had no need to cover up or "undo" or "stage" anything.

 

[dogperson]

I've always believed Burke & JonBenet were down there playing....that BD was abusive in many ways & the family knew about it

Those gifts being peeked at: that's what a kid does..

Redressing JBR in those too-big panties: that's what a kid does that doesn't know better & is covering his tracks....... he knew they were there because he'd ripped back those present's wrapping to peek....

'What did you find?'.....

Not just a dead sister - but opened presents, & his knife....

JMO[/QUOTE

I agree that Burke is the most logical candidate for exchanging the normal-sized Wednesday panties for the too-large Wednesday panties. An adult would realize that other adults would notice that the panties were way too big. But a kid trying to "put things back like normal" might not think of that. All he would know is that she had on Wednesday panties before the assault but now these had to be hidden/done away with and that there was another pack of these panties in the house that said Wednesday on them. It was an attempt to hide whatever had gone on below the waist. Since Burke is known to have opened presents meant for other people than him, he probably was aware the other pack of day-of-the-week panties existed.

If Patsy had been the one to assault JBR then she could have replaced the original Wednesday panties with any other panties in JBRs dresser. John likely didn't know what panties JBR had been wearing that night and would have no idea they said. But if John or any other adult somehow realized the panties had been switched then all Patsy would have had to do is say JBR wet them and they had to be changed.

If John did the assault we can see why he might find it difficult to explain why the original Wednesday panties were missing but I don't think he'd be dumb enough to think he could fool Patsy with the too large Wednesday panties. If he needed to dispose of the original panties then he'd be better off not replacing them with anything. That would have pointed to an intruder/perpetrator taking them away from the scene but redressing JBR in the too large Wednesday panties from inside his own house would do nothing but point suspicion back to him. Besides that, I doubt John even knew another pack of day-of-the-week panties even existed in the house. He probably didn't know or care what type of items Patsy shopped for or whether she bought two sets of these panties: one for JBR and one for a niece.

And as for an intruder switching the panties, what would be the point? He wouldn't have even known about the extra pack of panties and even if he did, why would he bother to redress her in a similar pair? If an intruder did this (which I don't believe) then he had no need to cover up or "undo" or "stage" anything.

 

[icedtea4me]

I've always believed Burke & JonBenet were down there playing....that BD was abusive in many ways & the family knew about it

Those gifts being peeked at: that's what a kid does..

Redressing JBR in those too-big panties: that's what a kid does that doesn't know better & is covering his tracks....... he knew they were there because he'd ripped back those present's wrapping to peek....

'What did you find?'.....

Not just a dead sister - but opened presents, & his knife....

JMO

You think Burke is going to be more concerned than Patsy that JonBenet be found wearing the correct day of the week underwear?

 

[icedtea4me]

I've always believed Burke & JonBenet were down there playing....that BD was abusive in many ways & the family knew about it

Those gifts being peeked at: that's what a kid does..

Redressing JBR in those too-big panties: that's what a kid does that doesn't know better & is covering his tracks....... he knew they were there because he'd ripped back those present's wrapping to peek....

'What did you find?'.....

Not just a dead sister - but opened presents, & his knife....

JMO

You think Burke is going to be more concerned than Patsy that JonBenet be found wearing the correct day of the week underwear?

 

[Venom]

Let's say BR switched the panties. What do you think he did with the size 6's? If he hid them and assuming the R's were covering for him, wouldn't the R's have asked him where they were so they wouldn't be found by police?

 

[Me66]

Let's say BR switched the panties. What do you think he did with the size 6's? If he hid them and assuming the R's were covering for him, wouldn't the R's have asked him where they were so they wouldn't be found by police?

How do you know they didn't? "I put them in the golf bag Mom" perhaps?
Other staging was childishly naive - putting the paintbrush back for example.
And maybe the size 12s were chosen because they were Wednesday and a 9 year old boy would think that nobody would notice they had been switched. Pants are just pants right?

 

[icedtea4me]

How do you know they didn't? "I put them in the golf bag Mom" perhaps?
Other staging was childishly naive - putting the paintbrush back for example.
And maybe the size 12s were chosen because they were Wednesday and a 9 year old boy would think that nobody would notice they had been switched. Pants are just pants right?

It's childishly naive to put something back where it belongs?

 

[UKGuy]

How do you know they didn't? "I put them in the golf bag Mom" perhaps?
Other staging was childishly naive - putting the paintbrush back for example.
And maybe the size 12s were chosen because they were Wednesday and a 9 year old boy would think that nobody would notice they had been switched. Pants are just pants right?

Me66,
It could be the Wednesday Day Of The Week was just a random pick and the size does not matter as long as she is wearing some underwear?

Yet its is a crime-scene that is being staged which requires credible artifacts and evidence.

The size-12's along with JonBenet wearing Burke's longjohns elevates him to a Person of Interest.

Why would one of the parents do this, it was a choice they made, why do it?

Both parents would know that the size-12's were a red flag, to avoid this all they needed to do was pick another pair, any pair of size-6 underwear from her bathroom drawer and that issue would go away.

It looks likely that both parents were complicit in the wine-cellar staging and possibly in asphyxiating JonBenet by applying the ligature/paintbrush.

The rest could be laid at Burke's door, including the redressing of JonBenet?

Neither PDI or JDI explains much of the evidence. I've yet to see a JDI or PDI theory that is convincing.

.

 

[Venom]

I guess I wasn't clear. Wouldn't the R's have wanted those panties out of the house asap? If they were stuffed into a golf bag, the police could have found them, so why not ask B where they were so they could have put them back on?
I haven't really followed this case in a while. I've always believed it was not an intruder. It's just pieces of the puzzle fit different ways.

 

[UKGuy]

I guess I wasn't clear. Wouldn't the R's have wanted those panties out of the house asap? If they were stuffed into a golf bag, the police could have found them, so why not ask B where they were so they could have put them back on?
I haven't really followed this case in a while. I've always believed it was not an intruder. It's just pieces of the puzzle fit different ways.

Venom,

Wouldn't the R's have wanted those panties out of the house asap?

Good question and the answer is probably yes?

It might be BR was in denial saying he knew nothing about anything, who knows?

The reason it is unlikely they would want JonBenet dressed in her size-6 Bloomingdale's is that they were bloodstained which would detract from the staging they were intending to fabricate, consider how JonBenet was wiped down, removing bloodstains according to Coroner Meyer, with her size-12's just being pulled back up?

There was no intruder as there is no intruder forensic evidence where you might expect it. As James Kolar says you should have numerous forensic profiles deposited by the attending Foreign Faction, yet there was none, none that could be linked to anyone outside the Ramsey house.

Lets assume the case is JDI or PDI and you have JonBenet's bloodstained size-6 underwear to deal with, what do you do?

Well, run them through the washing machine, then tumble dry them and put them back in JonBenet's underwear drawer and you have, conservatively at least 4 hours to do this?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>Neither PDI or JDI explains much of the evidence. I've yet to see a JDI or PDI theory that is convincing.

Why neither John nor Patsy? Why not both?

 

[Venom]

Venom,

Good question and the answer is probably yes?

It might be BR was in denial saying he knew nothing about anything, who knows?

The reason it is unlikely they would want JonBenet dressed in her size-6 Bloomingdale's is that they were bloodstained which would detract from the staging they were intending to fabricate, consider how JonBenet was wiped down, removing bloodstains according to Coroner Meyer, with her size-12's just being pulled back up?

There was no intruder as there is no intruder forensic evidence where you might expect it. As James Kolar says you should have numerous forensic profiles deposited by the attending Foreign Faction, yet there was none, none that could be linked to anyone outside the Ramsey house.

Lets assume the case is JDI or PDI and you have JonBenet's bloodstained size-6 underwear to deal with, what do you do?

Well, run them through the washing machine, then tumble dry them and put them back in JonBenet's underwear drawer and you have, conservatively at least 4 hours to do this?

.

Thinking more, would an intruder care about leaving bloodstains on the body and underwear? Not likely.
Would a family member care? Possibly. Would a family member care in order to hide abuse that's been happening? Yes.
To me, hiding the blood stains makes it look more like a cover up.

 

[Venom]

What thoughts do you have on if BDI: Did PR and/or JR wake up and find JB gone and check on BR and ask him about it? Would BR have woken them up to tell them that an accident happened and they covered it up from there? I wouldn't think they'd have the time to stage and write a ransom note.

 

[UKGuy]

Why neither John nor Patsy? Why not both?

icedtea4me,
For Murder in the First Degree, yes both are complicit. Even the True Bills suggest this.

Did they have sole responsibility or were they staging for a third party, i.e. the person, this I think is highly likely, but as you know there is no smoking gun.

.

 

[UKGuy]

What thoughts do you have on if BDI: Did PR and/or JR wake up and find JB gone and check on BR and ask him about it? Would BR have woken them up to tell them that an accident happened and they covered it up from there? I wouldn't think they'd have the time to stage and write a ransom note.

Venom,
The short answer is because of what did not happen. I reckon Patsy and John awoke to find one of two scenarios:

1. JonBenet in her bedroom, unconscious in a coma.

2. JonBenet not in her bedroom.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

icedtea4me,
For Murder in the First Degree, yes both are complicit. Even the True Bills suggest this.

Did they have sole responsibility or were they staging for a third party, i.e. the person, this I think is highly likely, but as you know there is no smoking gun.

.

UKGuy,
Surely that mountain of evidence in which you speak holds something. Who’s prints are found on Burke’s knife? Who’s prints were on the spoon in the bowl of pineapple? Who’s prints were on the diaper cabinet? What were the contents in the bowl of Tupperware in JB bedroom? Why was JB’s red turtleneck sweater wet? Of all the finger prints/hand prints that could be found on the wine cellar door why only MR’s? Why are there no fingerprints on the batteries inside the flashlight? What did the fibers found on JB shirt match up with? Why did BR pretend to be asleep or told to be? What about the fingerprints found on the packages in the wine cellar and the other gifts: what were they exactly? Who’s fingerprints were found on the photos taken of JB in the basement laundry room? Why did JR need his gold clubs? Why did he suddenly need to be in Atlanta for a meeting he couldn’t miss after discovering JB? Why did Joe Barnhill see JAR @ the house on Christmas Day? Why did PR tone change once she thought she had hung up the 911 call? Why was JB bedroom light on? Why did BR get a bicycle for Christmas that went missing the next morning? Where did it go?

These things seem blatantly clear to me. RN written with pen and pad from home. JR makes a mad dash for the wine cellar when he discovers JB. BR knife found in basement when it was hidden in cabinet. LHP told nobody where she hid it. Missing size 12 bloomies (6 pairs) poof = gone. PR states she put them in JB drawer. Then where are the remaining 6 pairs?

In all seriousness the grand jury handed down some serious indictments. So they heard enough evidence to convince them. We just don’t know what they discovered.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Venom,
The short answer is because of what did not happen. I reckon Patsy and John awoke to find one of two scenarios:

1. JonBenet in her bedroom, unconscious in a coma.

2. JonBenet not in her bedroom.

UKGuy,
Perhaps they awoke because they heard a scream.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Perhaps they awoke because they heard a scream.

Rain on my Parade,
Because we have a reasonable estimate as to the Time Of Death, e.g. 12:30 AM approximately, this is when the scream would have been heard, suggesting they had five hours to cleanup and stage a crime-scene.

Patently they never achieved this, with forensic evidence trailed all over the house, meaning they only had short time interval to effect the staging?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Surely that mountain of evidence in which you speak holds something. Who’s prints are found on Burke’s knife? Who’s prints were on the spoon in the bowl of pineapple? Who’s prints were on the diaper cabinet? What were the contents in the bowl of Tupperware in JB bedroom? Why was JB’s red turtleneck sweater wet? Of all the finger prints/hand prints that could be found on the wine cellar door why only MR’s? Why are there no fingerprints on the batteries inside the flashlight? What did the fibers found on JB shirt match up with? Why did BR pretend to be asleep or told to be? What about the fingerprints found on the packages in the wine cellar and the other gifts: what were they exactly? Who’s fingerprints were found on the photos taken of JB in the basement laundry room? Why did JR need his gold clubs? Why did he suddenly need to be in Atlanta for a meeting he couldn’t miss after discovering JB? Why did Joe Barnhill see JAR @ the house on Christmas Day? Why did PR tone change once she thought she had hung up the 911 call? Why was JB bedroom light on? Why did BR get a bicycle for Christmas that went missing the next morning? Where did it go?

These things seem blatantly clear to me. RN written with pen and pad from home. JR makes a mad dash for the wine cellar when he discovers JB. BR knife found in basement when it was hidden in cabinet. LHP told nobody where she hid it. Missing size 12 bloomies (6 pairs) poof = gone. PR states she put them in JB drawer. Then where are the remaining 6 pairs?

In all seriousness the grand jury handed down some serious indictments. So they heard enough evidence to convince them. We just don’t know what they discovered.

Rain on my Parade,
Yes the circumstantial evidence implicating Burke Ramsey is unquestioned, but did he asphyxiate JonBenet?

Due to Burke Ramsey being beneath the age of criminal responsibility and having the legal status of a child he is likely to be referred to as the person in any court documents.

This does not imply guilt of any sort its simply a legal instrument to protect his identity.

If the Grand Jury cannot decide whether the case is JDI, PDI or both they can issue the same indictments against Patsy and John, cross-referencing them as the person in the relevant Counts.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Yes the circumstantial evidence implicating Burke Ramsey is unquestioned, but did he asphyxiate JonBenet?

Due to Burke Ramsey being beneath the age of criminal responsibility and having the legal status of a child he is likely to be referred to as the person in any court documents.

This does not imply guilt of any sort its simply a legal instrument to protect his identity.

If the Grand Jury cannot decide whether the case is JDI, PDI or both they can issue the same indictments against Patsy and John, cross-referencing them as the person in the relevant Counts.

.

UKGuy,
Thank you for your input! My wheels are churning! I have always pictured the red sweater being grabbed by the collar and twisted as the first offense, then the head bash, then the staging. Anger stimulated this event IMO.