Detail From Kolar's Book

[Rain on my Parade]

If the Grand Jury cannot decide whether the case is JDI, PDI or both they can issue the same indictments against Patsy and John, cross-referencing them as the person in the relevant Counts.

UKGuy,
Which is what they did. I’m going to stick with all family members present as taking part. I’d still like answers to the fingerprint/fiber evidence. I wonder if that will ever come to light?

 

[Me66]

It's childishly naive to put something back where it belongs?

Yes. An adult would consider that if it had been used in a crime it would be evidence and remove it altogether. And an intruder wouldn’t have placed it neatly back where they found it. A 9 year old though with very linear thinking would possibly think “well if I put it back where it belongs, nobody will know I touched it”.
And yes, that same 9 year old would know that blood stained pants were a problem and needed to be swapped.

 

[Me66]

It's childishly naive to put something back where it belongs?

Yes. An adult would consider that if it had been used in a crime it would be evidence and remove it altogether. And an intruder wouldn’t have placed it neatly back where they found it. Why would they care? A 9 year old though with very linear thinking would possibly think “well if I put it back where it belongs, nobody will know I touched it”.
I don’t think we can say which bit of the paintbrush was used for the internal assault (the birefringent material) can we? There are so many details that I lose track.
And yes, that same 9 year old would know that blood stained pants were a problem and needed to be swapped.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Because we have a reasonable estimate as to the Time Of Death, e.g. 12:30 AM approximately, this is when the scream would have been heard, suggesting they had five hours to cleanup and stage a crime-scene.

Patently they never achieved this, with forensic evidence trailed all over the house, meaning they only had short time interval to effect the staging?

.

UKGuy,
They covered a lot of territory in that house that night. Somethings they missed. Oh, how I’d love to see/read about that mountain!

 

[Nerissa]

RE: Panties JBR redressed:
Actually....I DO think a kid would pick out the right day.....again: kid thing to think was important

How many grown men or women wear panties that synchronize to the day?!?
It's a kid thing

At any rate: what grown woman, after the trauma of finding her dead daughter, would put those waaay too big panties on to begin with thinking that's just fine & also be like, WAIT: what day of the week is it?......seems ridiculous to me....

JMO

 

[Rain on my Parade]

RE: Panties JBR redressed:
Actually....I DO think a kid would pick out the right day.....again: kid thing to think was important

How many grown men or women wear panties that synchronize to the day?!?
It's a kid thing

At any rate: what grown woman, after the trauma of finding her dead daughter, would put those waaay too big panties on to begin with thinking that's just fine & also be like, WAIT: what day of the week is it?......seems ridiculous to me....

JMO

Nerissa,
Perhaps, a mom in shock. The Wednesday pair would have fallen exactly in the middle of the package. The kicker here is these panties were zipped inside a package that had been tie wrapped. You would need a knife or a pair of scissors to open them. Not that a 9 year old couldn’t do that. Why did PR state she put all pairs in JB drawer? Not one pair of size 12 were found as far as we know.

 

[Nerissa]

Well....BR was well known to wittle away with his knife...

Caveat: I'm staunch BDI, so....there

Having said that.......

To throw a wrench in.....How do we know WHEN JBR was redressed - ?

Sure seems Patsy & John just thought they'd jet outta town (& dispose of JBR)....

Is it possible she was redressed as 'staging' or in 'guilt' before she was miraculously found right there under their nose where they already searched - ?

What IF - with LE there, she was prepared, knowing there was no getting out of jail free card with JBR 'found'......?

Okay - so, having said that: I don't really think that: I think BR redressed JBR, just as a kid would.....an adult wouldn't unless: under duress & just couldn't stand having her found 'naked'...

JMO......thought-fodder.......
That redressing is either BR....or some sort of 'duress'........just like a killer covers the face: they 'dressed' her up to be found when they knew they weren't just jetting off scot- free

 

[proust20]

UK Guy
Thank you for a thoughtful response to my previous post about the basement staging. I've no definite theory, and I am still probing.
Yes. The staging was meant to suggest a kidnapping. However, the sole evidence of an intended kidnapping is the RN. Without that, the assumption of a would be kidnapping could not be reached.
But who were the kidnapper(s) supposed to be and what was the motive? According to the RN, it is the small foreign faction, which had to include at least 3 people. The RN is clear that the motive is money; but, its author knew that no one would ever try to collect the 118K. Also, the Rs immediately violated the demands of the RN for JB's safe return. Thus, they indicated that they didn't take the RN seriously, which is bizarre. Although, contaminating the crime scene had to be accomplished no matter what else, I suppose. In their various interviews, the Rs do not mention the small faction nor the involvement of foreigners. They do point fingers at everybody and anybody that they ever knew, with the exception of family members.
Nothing about the staging suggests the foreign faction. Why not scrawl S.B.T.C somewhere near the body? Why make greed the motive? The RN could have said that JB was taken for only sadistic sexual reasons as vengeance. This should have been consistent with what was discovered in the WC and been a more plausible scenario; as it could be inferred that the perp couldn't hold off the desire to hurt the Rs. At least one of the Rs knew that JB had been chronically abused. Why not work that into the staging? Instead JB's body was overdressed and wrapped up, and so diminishing a pedophile angle, which the Rs would embrace eventually.
For me, the RN is not consistent with the staging. Perhaps, this is more evidence of the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing. Did the RN precede the staging. or was it the final touch?

 

[icedtea4me]

Yes. An adult would consider that if it had been used in a crime it would be evidence and remove it altogether. And an intruder wouldn’t have placed it neatly back where they found it. Why would they care? A 9 year old though with very linear thinking would possibly think “well if I put it back where it belongs, nobody will know I touched it”.
<snip>

Moreover, lab tests also showed it was Patsy’s Sharpie pen used to write the note. The pen used to write the note—an FBI profiler estimates it took 21 minutes for the author to practice on the pad and then compose it—was found in a cup with other Sharpies right next to the phone in the kitchen where Patsy kept them. It was very conscientious of the murderer to put everything back where he found it.

20 Years After JonBenét's Murder, The Ramseys Still Look Guilty As Hell

So, based on this, are you saying that:

a. Burke wrote the ransom note and then placed the Sharpie pen back in the cup where it belonged
or
b. Burke placed the pen back in the cup after his mom finished writing the ransom note?

 

[proust20]

A 9 yr old is not going to use attache with the correct accent mark. 'Deviation', 'countermeasures', and 'faction' are not age appropriate vocabulary choices. BR was not a literary prodigy.

 

[Me66]

Moreover, lab tests also showed it was Patsy’s Sharpie pen used to write the note. The pen used to write the note—an FBI profiler estimates it took 21 minutes for the author to practice on the pad and then compose it—was found in a cup with other Sharpies right next to the phone in the kitchen where Patsy kept them. It was very conscientious of the murderer to put everything back where he found it.

20 Years After JonBenét's Murder, The Ramseys Still Look Guilty As Hell

So, based on this, are you saying that:

a. Burke wrote the ransom note and then placed the Sharpie pen back in the cup where it belonged
or
b. Burke placed the pen back in the cup after his mom finished writing the ransom note?

I’m not saying anything about the note or the Sharpie. But if the note was written in that area, and the notepad was found there, then why wouldn’t the Sharpie be there too?

I’m just throwing out ideas and bouncing off theories that others put up. I don’t think the exact sequence of events will ever be known. There are cross-overs, double handling, re-do’s of bits of staging.

I personally think it started with Burke clocking her with the torch (flashlight) after she grabbed some of his pineapple, and then there were hours of activity where things were done, undone, moved, cleaned up etc. The flashlight is key otherwise why would it have been so thoroughly cleaned, including the batteries?

The only thing I’m reasonably sure of in this whole sorry mess is that there is not a scrap of evidence that there was an intruder present that night.

 

[UKGuy]

Nerissa,
Perhaps, a mom in shock. The Wednesday pair would have fallen exactly in the middle of the package. The kicker here is these panties were zipped inside a package that had been tie wrapped. You would need a knife or a pair of scissors to open them. Not that a 9 year old couldn’t do that. Why did PR state she put all pairs in JB drawer? Not one pair of size 12 were found as far as we know.

Rain on my Parade,
IMO You would need a knife or a pair of scissors to open them. This is a clue on par with the size-12's.

Its fair to assume Patsy invented her story about putting the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, for at least three good reasons, one of which is none were found anywhere in the house and they searched for them!

Wednesday pair in the middle, or at either end is a detail easily overlooked, that they were size-12's was not particularly if you are an adult fabricating a crime-scene?

The size-12's along with Coroner Meyers remarks:
December 29, 1996, BPD Search Warrant for Boulder, Colorado 15th Street, Excerpt

Det. Arndt informed Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that he observed red stains in the crotch area of the panties that the child was wearing at the time that the child's body was subjected to the external visual examination. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that the red stain appeared to be consistent with blood. Det. Arndt further informed the Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that after examining the panties (as described above), he observed the exterior pubic area of the child's body located next to the areas of the panties containing the red stains and found no visible reddish stains in that area. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that his opinion is that the evidence observed is consistent with the child's pubic area having been wiped by a cloth.

suggests that JonBenet was not redressed in the size-12's down in the basement, similarly for the longjohns?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Thank you for your input! My wheels are churning! I have always pictured the red sweater being grabbed by the collar and twisted as the first offense, then the head bash, then the staging. Anger stimulated this event IMO.

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, this was a popular scenario for PDI.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, this was a popular scenario for PDI.

.

UKGuy,
When do you suspect this bruise was made and how:

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
When do you suspect this bruise was made and how:
View attachment 258696

Rain on my Parade,
Probably before JonBenet had that ligature tied around her neck? Some say the bruise is part and parcel of the ligature asphyxiation process?

I reckon JonBenet lapsed into a coma after being manually strangled say by a choke hold, or the collar of a shirt, e.g. the red turtleneck.

.

 

[proust20]

I don't get why Meyer's report says "consistent with blood", rather then affirming that it IS blood. Linguistic games?

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>
I personally think it started with Burke clocking her with the torch (flashlight) after she grabbed some of his pineapple, <snip>

Oh, come on now. You think that was the first time she ever grabbed something of his?

 

[Me66]

I beg your pardon? Stop being ridiculous. Of course not. Kids grab each other’s stuff all the time.

Would you prefer that I qualified my post by saying “it is likely that JonBenet had, many times previously, taken things from Burke. As do all siblings from each other. But on this particular evening, it was Christmas and maybe he was tired, maybe he thought she got better, or more, or more expensive, presents. So if JonBenet came down while he was having a snack of tea and pineapple, and took a piece of his pineapple, he may have grabbed the closest thing to hand and whacked her in the head with it”.

I’d rather not write essays. How about you don’t get picky and pretend I’m saying something that I’m clearly not.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't get why Meyer's report says "consistent with blood", rather then affirming that it IS blood. Linguistic games?

proust20,
Its likely because he is just reporting what he has observed, the lab tests have yet to come through?

Although it looks like Coroner Meyer is playing semantics here:

JonBenet Autopsy Report, Excerpt

Vaginal Mucosa:
A small number of red blod cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringement foreign material
...

Knowing that it is birefringement requires a lab test which will identify the material explicitly, so not naming it is curious.

.

 

[root661]

Rain on my Parade,
Probably before JonBenet had that ligature tied around her neck? Some say the bruise is part and parcel of the ligature asphyxiation process?

I reckon JonBenet lapsed into a coma after being manually strangled say by a choke hold, or the collar of a shirt, e.g. the red turtleneck.

.

@UKGuy and @Rain on my Parade,

Do you think it is possible that those marks were made after the head injury during the movement of JBR to the basement and before the ligature asphyxiation? Most theories assume an adult "carried" her down there but if a smaller person were doing it the process could have been more complicated. Thoughts?