Details about Josh's childhood revealed in his parents divorce documents

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Uh....holding a butcher knife towards someone is not a veiled threat. Did the mom minimize this direct threat because it was required to deny/hide all of the many warped behaviors that occurred in Steven Powell's home?

Josh was very evil and was a product of Steven's home. The societal values that Steven taught his children to scorn caused an enormous amount of evil. If Josh's siblings ever truthfully discuss their life with Steven, I fear we will find that it was extremely perverse.

Thanks, Pennsfan! I agree with your post, and I am using it as a jump off and in no way pointing this at you.

This is an observation that just dawned on me...it is interesting that SP is so incredibly perverse and sans conscience, and that Josh is a product of his upbringing at the hands of SP.
But why did Josh take it a step further..murder of wife AND murder of sons?
Did SP ever indicate a murderous side, or just a soul-less existence?

Inquiring minds, and all that......:waitasec:

Just a thought....
 
Some people are able to break out and rise above the circumstances of their upbringing and some are not, may even latch onto it willingly. I can't help thinking of some of the missing child cases going right now, where the obvious question has been "who would not call 911 when a child is injured" for example...well, I think a lot of people wouldn't, depending on how they were raised and how they felt about LE "in their business" etc...I think certain families have a mentality that only those who remain matter, i.e. survival of the fittest, almost, and once someone is dead, it is time to close ranks and protect the living. I know I am rambling a bit, but I think people here at WS sometimes forget that the families and people we read about here are not (hopefully) the average, everyday families like those we know, with the values most of us have.

All that said, with JP now dead and having killed his children, I can't at all understand the lack of grief and remorse from most of his family on behalf of the children. JP is dead, he won't be punished by LE now, and still, they can only defend him? And not the kids?? We know once Susan was gone, his family members acted like she never mattered at all (except for the exception of one sister and her husband, I believe.) So I guess it should not be too shocking...but it still is. JMO
 
I think it goes ever further back. I think if people began to look for SP's missing mother, they would find the family body dump.
 
I think it goes ever further back. I think if people began to look for SP's missing mother, they would find the family body dump.

SP's mother is missing? :what: I don't think I've ever read that before! Is there a link? Where has this been discussed?
 
This was a long way back, but my memory was that SP's parents divorced and the claim was that his mother "left town" but she has not been heard from again. No one can confirm that she was alive, basically, was what seemed to be the case. There is stuff here at WS far back on various threads but I don't know how to find it.

At one time, I researched the area where they lived when SP was a boy, and places they were said to go on vacation, and there were many mines in the area.

Again, I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think a SP does not come out of nowhere. This is generational and more than JP's generation.
 
This is one of those very few cases where I hold the parent as much to blame as the son. Josh may have had choices as an adult but SP ensured which sort of choices he would make by the way he raised him from a little boy.

You have some genetics behind it but its pretty rare for a child to grow up with normal values when raised in a completely toxic environment. His sister did but i can't remember, didn't she go with mom too?

IIRC, Jen was nearing 18 when her parents divorced and soon thereafter moved in with her mother. Josh was then the eldest of the siblings and JMO, but what had already been lasered into his head, along with the secrets and maybe himself (trying to appease papa) inflicted the same said abuse on them....(just what kind of abuse...???) Surely, with the discovery and arrest of SP, the boys would have been checked for sexual abuse? Wasn't all the pics of girls and women only? ??

Jen has never spoken of her life with him..or any abuse, publicly. It would have been advantageous for Susan's boys if she or Alina..or even the other male siblings to come forward if they had experienced abuse of ANY kind. IMO How in the hello SP acquired full custody of the children from TP is still something I don't understand.

Bottom line....what SP seared into JP's soul and mind was too deep to overcome because he refused to claim it or by the time he did, Susan was gone and it was too late. SP was his magical wizard who could do no wrong. IMO, JMO, etc.

I too had wondered if the boys could completely overcome all the abuse and trauma they had already experience. I want to believe, yes; but it would have been a very long and painful road. At least they would have had a damn good chance with the Coxes. :(
 
This was a long way back, but my memory was that SP's parents divorced and the claim was that his mother "left town" but she has not been heard from again. No one can confirm that she was alive, basically, was what seemed to be the case. There is stuff here at WS far back on various threads but I don't know how to find it.

At one time, I researched the area where they lived when SP was a boy, and places they were said to go on vacation, and there were many mines in the area.

Again, I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think a SP does not come out of nowhere. This is generational and more than JP's generation.

From Steve Powell's website:

"In only a matter of months my dad made a unilateral and secretive decision to separate from my mom. So on a given weekend he took us to visit his parents while my mom went to spend the weekend with her aunt in Burbank. Unbeknownst to her, my grandparents had, prior to that weekend visit, transported their trailer house to Northern California, and parked it in Weed.

When we headed over to see my grandparents, and kept going north on Highway 1, something seemed amiss to me, even at seven years old. "Where is momma?" I asked. Grandma curtly replied, "You're never going to see your mother again." Of course, that was more devastating than the disappearance of the green car. My older brother, my sister and I were inconsolable. My baby brother probably just wondered what the commotion was about."

http://stevechantrey.com/Pages/About/MeetSteve.aspx

We have no idea what happened to the mother who was abandoned in southern California.
 
This was a long way back, but my memory was that SP's parents divorced and the claim was that his mother "left town" but she has not been heard from again. No one can confirm that she was alive, basically, was what seemed to be the case. There is stuff here at WS far back on various threads but I don't know how to find it.

At one time, I researched the area where they lived when SP was a boy, and places they were said to go on vacation, and there were many mines in the area.

Again, I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think a SP does not come out of nowhere. This is generational and more than JP's generation.

I poked around the forum on some old threads but only found references to posts wondering about her because of some Steve Chantrey songs.

ETA: I posted at the same time as gwenabob! Thanks gwenabob! :highfive:
 
The saddest thing I heard on Nancy Grace was Chuck Cox saying that the boys asked if they were going to be abused by the Coxes. So the sicko Powell clan had taught them that Naked Family Time was "good" and normal loving relationships were "abusive" and to expect that their grandparents were bad people who would hurt them.

All the Powells who defend these monsters really need help.
 
So is Steve Chantrey also Steven Powell? I didn't know that either!!!
 
Thanks for those bits from gwenabob.

I've always been struck by two things in them. One is that grandma made that pronouncement, "You're never going to see your mother again," with great authority. How could she possibly know that unless she knew the woman was dead? Every child grows up, and that child might seek out a parent who leaves. Or a parent who abandons might come back. What proof is there that mom actually went to Burbank? What SP knows is that momma disappeared and grandma said it was permanent.

The second is that SP's mother never HAS reappeared. Frankly, tabloids with cash can usually find the most remote relatives. I would have expected in all this to hear from SP's mother, just as we heard from his ex-wife. The silence is deafening.
 
I'm not suggesting that as a society we limit their ability to recreate their twisted family dynamic. I just think, personally, it's a a gene pool that is toxic and as such should in the basic sense of ceasing to recreate twisted individuals should cease to continue. If I happened to be someone who married into that family I would run, not walk away. You don't have just one set of generation of Powells disturbed you have multiple. And at some point these individuals are beyond any help by society, Josh Powell being one of them.

Basically to summarize. You have a mother who has witnessed her younger child threaten her with a butcher knife but still years later states in a affidavit to the Court that this same child is a loving father (even though you're aware his wife disappeared two years ago under suspicious circumstances).

You have a father that did his best to alienate all of his children from their mother and demanded that custody remained with him.

That same father was later arrested on child *advertiser censored* charges and went on national television to proclaim that his missing and presumed dead daughter in law liked to and frequently interacted with him in sexual ways (because she's like that). Ok then ....

Josh's brother liked to walk around the house with no clothes on (in front of young children) and often opened the door to vistors completely naked.

You have one sister that sees nothing wrong with possessing child *advertiser censored* and sees her brother as a victim in this case, despite knowing that her brother hatcheted his children before burning them alive.

Something says we have people here that are beyond any sort of hope. The only hope being that no more people die as a result of this twisted group.

And let's not forget, one doesn't have to be a murderer or child sex abuser to pass those particular broken genes to one's children. It could skip a generation, like balding, or green eyes, or curly hair. "My grandfather was bald, my dad had lots of hair, and here I am, bald as a cue ball." That short of thing.

I think that's what you're saying and others may have missed that. I agree, it seems to be something very wrong in the gene pool of that family. The fact that Jennifer seems to be without that defect is a lot like three children being bald as adults and the other having the full head of hair into old age. We just never know what our genes will do when they develop offspring. Procreation is tricky business. Who's to say the sister who is free of the problem won't pass it down to her children and grandchildren?

Just to be clear, I know balding and sexual abuse/murder are very different things. It was just a simple example.
 
Thanks, Pennsfan! I agree with your post, and I am using it as a jump off and in no way pointing this at you.

This is an observation that just dawned on me...it is interesting that SP is so incredibly perverse and sans conscience, and that Josh is a product of his upbringing at the hands of SP.
But why did Josh take it a step further..murder of wife AND murder of sons?
Did SP ever indicate a murderous side, or just a soul-less existence?

Inquiring minds, and all that......:waitasec:

Just a thought....
BBM
IMO, there were many factors. In addition to being devoid of empathy, he was a controlling narcissistic domestic batterer (murderer). He HAD to be in complete control of his life and what he perceived were his "possessions" (his children), but he was losing control these. He was also experiencing depression and vengeful anger (as seen in his last blog which was removed from the internet).


The risk for children of batterers to be physically abused is alarmingly high; 49-70%, versus 7% within the general population. The risk of physical abuse of children by a batterer rises with the severity and frequency of the abuse directed at their mother. A custody/visitation evaluator would be negligent in not investigating charges of domestic violence by the father for these are red flags of potential child abuse. In addition, batterers are at risk to kill children, especially if they murder or attempt to murder the mother; in more than 1 in 8 domestic violence homicides, the batterer kills one or more children.
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/domesticviolence/batterers/batterer_is_a_child_abuser.htm
 
The first thing I want to know after reading the first comment is: where are the other four sblings. It sounds like Josh was abused as a child by his father. That would explain why he was unable to show affection to his wife ... he feigned something about germs. The boys had probably already been molested by the time they went to stay with their grandparents.

Josh threatened his mother with a knife and she was afraid for her life, he ultimately hit his children in the head with an ax.

This seems to go back farther than the parent. This was the grandparent, Steve, Josh's father. It sounds like he abused Josh and Josh grew up to be a really weird Mormon guy that married for appearances. After the children were born, Josh developed a germ phobia that prevented him from being affectionate with his wife ... but most likely he was attracted to men. Her sons, in the care of Steven Powell and his son Josh, probably had very little chance of survival ... it was most likely them or their dad and grandfather. They lost.

They were probably of an age where they were starting to talk not only about their mother, but their father and grandfather. Maybe Josh murdered his children and committed suicide to cover for his father ... anything is possible given the twisted web that Susan was caught in.
 
The saddest thing I heard on Nancy Grace was Chuck Cox saying that the boys asked if they were going to be abused by the Coxes. So the sicko Powell clan had taught them that Naked Family Time was "good" and normal loving relationships were "abusive" and to expect that their grandparents were bad people who would hurt them.

All the Powells who defend these monsters really need help.

JP was just trying to control the boys. He wanted them to think bad things about them so that when they grew up they would hate them. A lot of people do this when one parent is not around, and it is horrid, it also contributes to a few of the nation's social issues. It seems that this kind of thing had been going on for a few generations. At least one sister is breaking the cycle. At least the Coxes had some time with the boys and showed them love and life in a nurturing environment, they really seemed to have gotten to know in a relatively short time. Just so happy for that.
 
So is Steve Chantrey also Steven Powell? I didn't know that either!!!

Steve Chantrey is Steven Powell's "artistic alias." That website http://stevechantrey.com/Pages/Default.aspx had been uncovered by websleuthers back in the beginning and we endured listening to his "music."

Just going from memory, and I don't have a source or link, but after SP talked about falling in love with Susan when the whole sexual allegations recently came to light, it was said that some of those songs on his website were written for Susan.

ETA: One link to an Inside Edition story where one of Susan's close friends discusses Steven's music that was written for Susan:http://www.insideedition.com/news/6...an-powell-case-father-in-laws-love-songs.aspx
 
Hi All,

Just reading through your posts and have to say that they are all so interesting. This is one of the saddest cases that I have ever read about but after reading about Josh and his unbelievably sick father, I can't say that I am surprised. I have seen interviews with Josh and found his affect to be flat and unnerving. Almost like he was dead inside.

That being said, I have to disagree about the idea that this is a Gene Thing or a "bad gene pool." The biggest argument in Psychology is nature vs nurture and it is an undeniable fact that our environment shapes us and has an enormous impact on our personalities and who we become as a person.

It goes against all of my training to simply believe that Josh Powell was "Born Bad". We are all born with innate traits and a temperament, but it is our environment (home and community) that has the greatest effect on how those traits and temperament are shaped. No one is born "evil". That is just way to black and white and ignores the all important concept of nurture. It is more likely that generations of abuse existed in this family and were passed down generation to generation. We see this constantly in the mental health/social work field. In fact, the disciplines operate on that very assumption which has been proved through research and psycho social theories .

The concept of the "Resiliant Child" is a powerful one. Many children are raised in horrific and dysfunctional families but go on to become healthy and productive adults. They are abused but do not become abusers. No one knows why but this happens but it flies in the face of the idea of a "genetic" problem. Why did Josh turn out to be an abuser and a murderer? Why was his sister the complete opposite and able to see her father and family for what they are and distance herself from them? Resiliance and Nature vs. Nurture.

Looking at Josh's childhood and background even at a surface level one can see that he was raised by a very sick man in an extremely toxic and dysfunctional environment. He was not able to overcome and aligned himself with what he learned. His sister obviously did not. If we sat and went back generations in this family, we would find consistent patterns of abuse and trauma that were learned and passed down to each generation. Abuse and violence are cyclical and if that cycle is not broken and people do not get the help that they need to re learn life skills or do not have that "resiliance" the results are often tragic as we are seeing here.

We cannot separate a person from their environment when trying to understand their behavior, actions, and motivation. It's the equivalent of trying to eat soup with a fork...It's impossible.
 
BBM
IMO, there were many factors. In addition to being devoid of empathy, he was a controlling narcissistic domestic batterer (murderer). He HAD to be in complete control of his life and what he perceived were his "possessions" (his children), but he was losing control these. He was also experiencing depression and vengeful anger (as seen in his last blog which was removed from the internet).
The risk for children of batterers to be physically abused is alarmingly high; 49-70%, versus 7% within the general population. The risk of physical abuse of children by a batterer rises with the severity and frequency of the abuse directed at their mother. A custody/visitation evaluator would be negligent in not investigating charges of domestic violence by the father for these are red flags of potential child abuse. In addition, batterers are at risk to kill children, especially if they murder or attempt to murder the mother; in more than 1 in 8 domestic violence homicides, the batterer kills one or more children.
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/domesticviolence/batterers/batterer_is_a_child_abuser.htm

Do we have a copy of that blog anywhere that I can read?
 
These are exactly the kinds of statistics that Washington authorities and legislators should have known. They are the ones who set up this visitation scenario despite the risks.
 
IIRC, Jen was nearing 18 when her parents divorced and soon thereafter moved in with her mother. Josh was then the eldest of the siblings and JMO, but what had already been lasered into his head, along with the secrets and maybe himself (trying to appease papa) inflicted the same said abuse on them....(just what kind of abuse...???) Surely, with the discovery and arrest of SP, the boys would have been checked for sexual abuse? Wasn't all the pics of girls and women only? ??

Jen has never spoken of her life with him..or any abuse, publicly. It would have been advantageous for Susan's boys if she or Alina..or even the other male siblings to come forward if they had experienced abuse of ANY kind. IMO How in the hello SP acquired full custody of the children from TP is still something I don't understand.

Bottom line....what SP seared into JP's soul and mind was too deep to overcome because he refused to claim it or by the time he did, Susan was gone and it was too late. SP was his magical wizard who could do no wrong. IMO, JMO, etc.

I too had wondered if the boys could completely overcome all the abuse and trauma they had already experience. I want to believe, yes; but it would have been a very long and painful road. At least they would have had a damn good chance with the Coxes. :(

BBM.

I agree. Had the boys lived I have always thought that it would take years and years to recover and thought there was a great likelyhood that perhaps maybe they never would have fully recovered. But they deserved a chance to try. And that chance was ripped from them.
 

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