Details about Josh's childhood revealed in his parents divorce documents

[Dal Gal]

That is an amazing find. It looks like SP was into genealogy before he decided Mormons were worthless because they were against *advertiser censored* and incest.

Actually, Dovebar, I would speculate that SP's grandmother OW shared the info with him. She knew that he was interested in music per his own bio, and may have told of family stories that were rooted in music...those old English surnames are based on the family occupation, after all!

This was one of those "finds" that I wasn't even expecting...I'm still on an adrenaline high from it! And as Heatherly30 said, links like this is WHY we love researching genealogy...some is good, some is bad, but there is ALWAYS something that history has recorded for us to discover!

 

[dovebar]

Actually, Dovebar, I would speculate that SP's grandmother OW shared the info with him. She knew that he was interested in music per his own bio, and may have told of family stories that were rooted in music...those old English surnames are based on the family occupation, after all!

This was one of those "finds" that I wasn't even expecting...I'm still on an adrenaline high from it! And as Heatherly30 said, links like this is WHY we love researching genealogy...some is good, some is bad, but there is ALWAYS something that history has recorded for us to discover!

That is an interesting possibility. From the Coalville connection, all the way through the Spokane area, it looks like mining surroundings were never far from the family.

 

[Just K]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7589287#post7589287"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
What happened to the genealogy thread and why can't it be accessed?
I am very interested in this cyclical family history. This is a large family with many first cousins to JP and some of them have children, too. SP's siblings were brought up in the same environment and one has to wonder if SP was an anomaly or if this trait runs through the whole Powell family tree.

The fact that SP was intimately experienced at how to take children away from their mothers and the fact that he knew how his grandmother used a hidden vehicle to transfer SP and his siblings and then to take them to another state concerns me. One wonders if SP doesn't give clues away, on that Steven Chantry site, as to what happened to Susan, where she was taken and how she was spirited away.

It wouldn't surprise me if the actual events around her disappearance were similar to the way SP says he was taken away by his grandmother.

 

[sayd]

Wow, that's interesting about the hidden vehicle. Do we know for sure that Susan's other vehicle was actually sold before this happened?

 

[gwenabob]

Wow, that's interesting about the hidden vehicle. Do we know for sure that Susan's other vehicle was actually sold before this happened?

Susan and Josh had only one vehicle, and it is the one that was destroyed in Josh's fire.

 

[sayd]

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seat...ior-a-red-flag

March 1, 2010 - "...he sold Susan's car against her wishes, leaving her dependent upon him...Examiner.com learned from those closest to Susan that selling Susan's car was Josh's idea. Susan was not happy about it but finally relented. Josh claimed they didn't need a second car and it was too expensive to keep up two cars. Was it another form of control? Gifford said during the Feb. 15 press conference that Josh held the only set of keys to the family mini-van. Susan ended up having to bike it to work. According to friends and family, she had a regular bike, nothing special. Caldwell said, "Susan rode seven miles to and from work on a very busy road twice each work day for about two months. The ride took her about 45 minutes each way." Caldwell, Kiirsi Hellewell, Susan's best friend, and others tried to convince Susan it was too dangerous but she told them it would be okay, she could use the exercise. They told Examiner.com that they discussed their concerns with Josh and he finally agreed he'd ride his bike and Susan could take the van. That lasted a week, they said, after Josh went out and spent $1,500 on a motor for his regular bicycle. All while he claimed there wasn't enough money for food and incidentals. His ride to work was five miles. When riding his bike didn't work out for Josh he turned to his friend, John Hellewell, and asked if they could carpool together. Kiirsi Hellewell , Susan's best friend, said , "John was the one who drove. The carpool lasted only about a week because Josh expected John to pick him up, drop the kids off at daycare, drop Josh off to work, pick him up from work, and pick the kids up from daycare. On most days John had to leave home earlier and get home later, so John decided to stop the carpool arrangement."

For the remainder of the time before Susan went missing Josh drove Susan to work and picked her up. Caldwell remembers six or seven times when he failed to pick Susan up and failed to call. Caldwell would have to pack the kids up into the car to pick Susan up.

If Susan wanted the van on the days she had off, she had to drive Josh to and from work.

On one occasion Caldwell let Susan borrow her car so she could go to the local LDS temple. She said Josh became angry.

 

[Sulamith]

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seat...ior-a-red-flag

March 1, 2010 - "...he sold Susan's car against her wishes, leaving her dependent upon him...Examiner.com learned from those closest to Susan that selling Susan's car was Josh's idea. Susan was not happy about it but finally relented. Josh claimed they didn't need a second car and it was too expensive to keep up two cars. Was it another form of control? Gifford said during the Feb. 15 press conference that Josh held the only set of keys to the family mini-van. Susan ended up having to bike it to work. According to friends and family, she had a regular bike, nothing special. Caldwell said, "Susan rode seven miles to and from work on a very busy road twice each work day for about two months. The ride took her about 45 minutes each way." Caldwell, Kiirsi Hellewell, Susan's best friend, and others tried to convince Susan it was too dangerous but she told them it would be okay, she could use the exercise. They told Examiner.com that they discussed their concerns with Josh and he finally agreed he'd ride his bike and Susan could take the van. That lasted a week, they said, after Josh went out and spent $1,500 on a motor for his regular bicycle. All while he claimed there wasn't enough money for food and incidentals. His ride to work was five miles. When riding his bike didn't work out for Josh he turned to his friend, John Hellewell, and asked if they could carpool together. Kiirsi Hellewell , Susan's best friend, said , "John was the one who drove. The carpool lasted only about a week because Josh expected John to pick him up, drop the kids off at daycare, drop Josh off to work, pick him up from work, and pick the kids up from daycare. On most days John had to leave home earlier and get home later, so John decided to stop the carpool arrangement."

For the remainder of the time before Susan went missing Josh drove Susan to work and picked her up. Caldwell remembers six or seven times when he failed to pick Susan up and failed to call. Caldwell would have to pack the kids up into the car to pick Susan up.

If Susan wanted the van on the days she had off, she had to drive Josh to and from work.

On one occasion Caldwell let Susan borrow her car so she could go to the local LDS temple. She said Josh became angry.

I wonder if Susan's subservient (to me) behavior had anything to do Susan honoring Josh Powell's priesthood in the LDS church and with him being the head of the house would "obey" him. ?? I was raised LDS and was sealed to my husband in a LDS temple so I know the religion/culture. I am not LDS any longer. My husband has 5 brothers and they have all been divorced. They tried to control their wives. (I have witnessed a few episodes). None of my former sister-in-laws would have put up with riding a bike to work. It is a shame Susan did not get out sooner and go live with her parents. I sure wish Susan could have seen Josh how her mother and father saw him.

 

[sayd]

Did anyone happen to see the Dateline show called, "The girl in the blue mustang"? The person who killed her kept talking and talking to the media, police, and lawyers, all caught on tape. Time went on and on and they never brought him to trial because they had nothing but circumstantial evidence. Finally, her father put together a very professional power point presentation that showed his pertinent statements and showed it to the District Attorney, who finally agreed they could go to trial based on the power point presentation. I bring this up because I went thru all the lyrics of Stephen "Chantrey's" songs. It seems if you made a power point presentation using some of the song lyrics, along with his off-the-wall statements to the media, you could come up with something pretty powerful to present to a jury. The key would be in the presentation. I actually started drafting some stuff up, but hate to post it because of "Chantrey's" copy write thing.

After watching the Caylee Anthony fiasco, it struck me that prosecutor LDB was correct in wanting to pay a professional company to do their graphics, which was turned down. It might have made a huge difference.

I think any case against Stephen “Chantrey”, and his alter ego SP, would also benefit from this. Prosecutors have just got to start putting circumstantial evidence in an explicitly clear manner to jurors.

 

[passionflower]

O/T do we know if jp left a life insurance policy to anyone in his family?
Who would gain from jp and boys deaths.........SP?

 

[Sulamith]

Did anyone happen to see the Dateline show called, "The girl in the blue mustang"? The person who killed her kept talking and talking to the media, police, and lawyers, all caught on tape. Time went on and on and they never brought him to trial because they had nothing but circumstantial evidence. Finally, her father put together a very professional power point presentation that showed his pertinent statements and showed it to the District Attorney, who finally agreed they could go to trial based on the power point presentation. I bring this up because I went thru all the lyrics of Stephen "Chantrey's" songs. It seems if you made a power point presentation using some of the song lyrics, along with his off-the-wall statements to the media, you could come up with something pretty powerful to present to a jury. The key would be in the presentation. I actually started drafting some stuff up, but hate to post it because of "Chantrey's" copy write thing.

After watching the Caylee Anthony fiasco, it struck me that prosecutor LDB was correct in wanting to pay a professional company to do their graphics, which was turned down. It might have made a huge difference.

I think any case against Stephen “Chantrey”, and his alter ego SP, would also benefit from this. Prosecutors have just got to start putting circumstantial evidence in an explicitly clear manner to jurors.

Had not seen that Dateline show. Found it online and it looks very interesting and I am going to watch it. The thing is that we know that Michell O'Keefe was murdered, there was a body. While we all can assume Susan is dead, there is no body. Is Susan's case still classified as a missing person or has the case been reclassified as a murder case? (I am sure I am not getting the legal terminology correct.) I would think WVPD would have to classify her as a murder victim to even prosecute as Corpus Delicti. Here is something from the Charley Project: http://www.charleyproject.org/corpus/index.html

I would really like to hear what WVPD found on the wet carpet that was in Susan's house. What did they find on the charred wood found?

 

[Kimster]

Please do not sleuth the genealogy of any players in any cases at this time. The owners are looking into whether we are going to open that door on Websleuths or not and we have not heard their decision yet.

:tyou:

 

[dovebar]

I hate to go here but.....given that JP did not want Susan to access the computer, and now we know why, I wonder why he REALLY didn't want her to have the car. Having her dependent certainly let him track her movements, but it also would have made it harder for him to do things like show up at his workplace. Surprise him someplace. He had complete mobility, and if she requested the van, he would have time to clean it out. Meanwhile, he was out in it doing heaven knows what, without any fear that he would cross paths with his wife - at a strip bar, meeting other people for activities unknown, etc.

In other words, now that we have tangible evidence of what he was capable of, I think it even more likely that his life in the tangible world paralleled the demented life he was leading in the virtual world.

JMO

 

[Sulamith]

Please do not sleuth the genealogy of any players in any cases at this time. The owners are looking into whether we are going to open that door on Websleuths or not and we have not heard their decision yet.

:tyou:

I read some of the Powell's genealogy thread and was somewhat appalled that it was posted here and wondered if Jennifer Powell Graves approved of her family history being posted/sleuthed here. I realize that her father and the rest of her family are perverts (according to news outlets) but I do not see where learning of the Powell's genealogy would be of use in trying to determine anything in this murder/suicide case any more than I would think a Cox genealogy would be helpful in trying to determine if there was something in Susan's ancesteral history that would make her act the way she did. Like it or not, the Powell blood runs through Jennifer Graves and her kids. I tell you, I would hate to think that anything my ancestors did might have been passed down to me and I have a somewhat colorful family history.

 

[passionflower]

out of all the children, were Josh and Jennifer the only married ones?

did SP and JP have any religious beliefs (other than hating mormons) or were they
considering themselves atheists? or their own little cult type life?

 

[dovebar]

The interest in looking at certain elements of SP's and JP's extended family came about as an effort to look for family clues that might help find Susan, IIRC.

For instance, the family settled near this desert (cf. Braden's comment about mommy in the desert).
http://www.visitidaho.org/attraction/outdoor-recreation/st-anthony-sand-dunes/

If the snowstorm was blowing SE, it's possible that the road up to Idaho was actually clear that evening. Leaving Susan in Idaho or taking her there would have made it especially easy for SP to meet up with JP and still be back in Washington for work the next day.

 

[Elley Mae]

Well it's sad that the two young boys had to suffer and die. But I wonder based on what we know they probably went through while in the clutches of Josh and his father I wonder if the boys suffered irreparable damage. It seems that Josh did EXACTLY what his father did to him. And to this day I fully believe that Josh also sexually abused his children. It was the psycho sexual evaluation that Josh feared the most. And I think he feared that it would show he has been sexually abusing his sons. And he wanted to make sure his sons would never tell on him for both the murder of their mother as well as any abuse they suffered.

It's my hope much like it is with the Anthony family that the gene pool completely stops. I hope all of Josh's siblings don't have children and that Steven Powell is locked away forever from children. The only way to stop this continuing circle of destruction is to ensure that the Powell family stops recreating itself. Something obviously is deeply wrong with this family.

I didn't follow this case that close.I saw when steve was arrested. I have read some since josh murdered Susan's sons. I think you hit the nail on the head. I can only hope that there is enough to keep steve in jail.

jmo I think steve knows where susan is, just sayin

 

[Just K]

SP is the key to finding Susan. IMO

I have wondered if JP didn't have Susan or her remains in the house that he set on fire. I hope investigators comb every square inch of that gutted house for any sign of additional bones...not that of his or the boys.

 

[wenwe4]

The generational abuse is coming to light in small increments. I believe identifying the patterns of behavior(s) is key to understanding how this psychopath was created. I believe we could prove that not only JP but also SP, were incubated in manipulation, cruelty, twisted sick power and control over others. The lack of sexual boundaries, disturbing images throughout the home(s) and computers, and sham(s) set up to deceive others is yet another ongoing pattern of behavior. SP was introduced to this thinking early on (IMO) .

 

[wenwe4]

Interesting info on the number of years this family spent in court over the divorce, placement of the children, and child support. Spokane Superior Ct Case #92-3-02909-8
can be found when doing a name search under Michael P. There were declarations from all of the children including Josh and siblings over the years (1992 -2003). Here is a link to the court repository for Washington.

http://dw.courts.wa.gov

 

[RavenTrue]

Long time no see friends. Was horrified upon hearing the news of what Josh did to his sons. I always thought him too much of a coward. Now the secret of where Susan is lies with Steven. Many speculated that he aided in Susan's disposal in the beginning. Have no idea about that, but am certain he knows exactly what happened and the location of her body. Am so hoping that LE can put some kind of pressure on him to cooperate given the charges against him.

As for Terrica I think someone on here on WS would have found it if she is deceased. It always seemed strange to me that after the divorce she just handed over her children with no visitation and, basically, disappeared. Now we know it was fear of SP, Josh, and much more. No doubt JG has the answer to this, but chooses not to reveal it. As she was such a good friend to Susan and publicly pointed her finger at Josh soon after Susan's disappearance I'll respect that. Though I think we (and LE) could gain much from her insight.

Nothing could surprise me about life with Steven Powell. As property children could be used or abused in any way he likes. I doubt he'd see anything wrong with that. The fact that 3 of his adult children STILL lived at home with him with no means of their own told me volumes. I hope they receive counseling, learn to live outside his control and possibly come forward with information of their own 1 day. His delusions of some type of relationship that he and Susan had as shown in his lyrics, and now interviews also point to an extremely disturbed individual.

Now the Coxs' have lost their grandchildren as well as their daughter...justice for the perpetrator is now gone. I wish for 2 things in this case. That they can find and bury their daughter with her sons. And that SP gives them the information they deserve--and never sees the light of the free world again.