Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

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Bond-Question here. I can't remember all of KC's online/on-phone activity June15/16 but, my senerio of her as a murderer, killing her toddler (silently) inside her bedroom, doesn't require much time. Oh yeah, just remembered the point I really wanted to make. The possible argument on June 15. Not having a large window of time for a big fight to happen actually supports my own person theory. That Caylee said something to raise "red flags" or ring alarm bells in CA's head and she confronted KC about it, but perhaps because she didn't want to fight in front of Caylee, she said, we'll talk about this tomorrow, or "I'll ask Caylee more tomorrow"...whatever, something along those lines and therefore Caylee HAD to die before CA could get to her again. Make sense?
 
I do think it is VERY possible they will deflect from Casey by using Cindy and I'll tell you why: Cindy has spent the better part of 10 months blowing the horn of Casey is innocent, a good mother, a great daughter, a wonderful person. They've never had a conflict. There was never a problem. There were never any questions to how Casey was raising her child. She was perfect, Caylee was happy and thriving, all was golden and glittery. Where is Cindy going to be able to come up with any stories that will NOT become perjury in a court of law when all of these things are sworn statements to LE and to a court officer in a deposition?

Casey does not need Cindy's "gravy train" anymore. She's rolling in the big bucks, whoever is funding her defense. Cindy should be terrified that Casey doesn't need her, or George, anymore. They've done their work. Casey's a good mother, remember? To quote Wednesday Addam's: "Be afraid. Be very afraid."

I think that Casey thinks she's going to be acquitted and will make a fortune writing a book and doing the talk-show circuit. She doesn't need either of her parents anymore, and thinks that with her acquittal will come fame and independence.
 
Bond-Question here. I can't remember all of KC's online/on-phone activity June15/16 but, my senerio of her as a murderer, killing her toddler (silently) inside her bedroom, doesn't require much time.

Post#1 this thread for details on timing of events. And, no, wouldn't take much time at all...for almost any scenario...really.

Oh yeah, just remembered the point I really wanted to make.

IOW..."And now for something completely different!" :python:

The possible argument on June 15. Not having a large window of time for a big fight to happen actually supports my own person theory. That Caylee said something to raise "red flags" or ring alarm bells in CA's head and she confronted KC about it, but perhaps because she didn't want to fight in front of Caylee, she said, we'll talk about this tomorrow, or "I'll ask Caylee more tomorrow"...whatever, something along those lines and therefore Caylee HAD to die before CA could get to her again. Make sense?

Yes, I understand where you're goin' with this ;) As in..."Ci Ci, Mommy dint really [fill in the blank]".
 
I think that Casey thinks she's going to be acquitted and will make a fortune writing a book and doing the talk-show circuit. She doesn't need either of her parents anymore, and thinks that with her acquittal will come fame and independence.

I'm perfectly content in letting KC believe whole heartedly in that fantasy... because the higher they are, the harder they fall.

Little Caylee deserves to have her murderer fall very very hard and never be able to recover from that fall too.

Is it Irony that the parents now desperately need (or seemingly) need their daughter in order to survive financially? If not for Caylee's high profile murder, they may not be earning money at the moment. I cannot imagine a more perfect moment than for KC to feel the ultimate control - and that moment is right now.

Irony deserves to be a capital letter in this sentence. How strange it can be.
 
In this whole fiasco, I think I would trust Furman before any of the rest of them, besides LE. A bit OT here, but Furman got a raw deal in the OJ trial and was just used as a distraction and scape goat. If Marsha Clark hadn't totally thrown him under the bus, his reputation would still be intact. Clark herself lost the case. It's her fault OJ walked. Now, back to the topic at hand.. regarding Furman, I think if left to his own devices, he could figure out exactly what happened to Caylee. In my opinion, he really is a good detective. Read his books and I think anyone would agree.

I've read Mark Fuhrman's books and I agree, he's a great detective and if he had stayed in Orlando, I think he would have ferreted out a lot of information and details.
 
Given what we know about this family, would it be so hard to imagine that a huge fight took place on June 7th, followed by another one on June 15th? (June 15th-the "last straw" to KC perhaps?)
Just wondering aloud...

(On a personal opinion note, I like reading facts that support KC never leaving the A home the night of June 15th as I theorize Caylee was killed in Casey's bedroom that night.)[/QUOTE]

Bold: by me.

ITA - that's my theory too.
 
In reality we don't know if there was a fight between Cindy and Casey on the 7th or the 15th. The only ones that were supposedly in the house on the 15th was George, Cindy, and Casey. Wasn't it Casey who was supposed to have told Lee about the fight on the 15th? I can just hear her telling her brother "mom and I got into this huge argument and she went after me and started choking me. I thought she was going to kill me!" Casey the drama queen...Casey the liar... wanting to make her mom look bad. I know that Cindy denies there was a fight like that...George probably does too. Has Casey denied that she ever said that? Remember, this is the girl that said her brother tried to have sex with her...her dad had a stroke or heart attack..and that she was going to have the house to herself as her parents were moving. All lies to get attention. Why not a big fight with Cindy and Cindy tried to choke her? Why are people willing to believe that one when everyone knows what a liar Casey is?
 
In reality we don't know if there was a fight between Cindy and Casey on the 7th or the 15th. The only ones that were supposedly in the house on the 15th was George, Cindy, and Casey. Wasn't it Casey who was supposed to have told Lee about the fight on the 15th? I can just hear her telling her brother "mom and I got into this huge argument and she went after me and started choking me. I thought she was going to kill me!" Casey the drama queen...Casey the liar... wanting to make her mom look bad. I know that Cindy denies there was a fight like that...George probably does too. Has Casey denied that she ever said that? Remember, this is the girl that said her brother tried to have sex with her...her dad had a stroke or heart attack..and that she was going to have the house to herself as her parents were moving. All lies to get attention. Why not a big fight with Cindy and Cindy tried to choke her? Why are people willing to believe that one when everyone knows what a liar Casey is?

And, question to all the knowledgable folks out there...IS there REALLY testimony eviedence from a neighbor claiming to hear a loud verbal fight. IF so, what time frame? What date did this happen? The 15th of June? or a week earlier.
Makes no difference to me. I believe what I believe. Caylee said "SOMETHING" to CA on 6/15. CA threatened KC with finding out more 6/16. KC HAD NO CHOICE in her meek little brain, but to find a way to stop this convo from ever happening. Thus, Caylee's murder. A very simplistic, naive motive. Not "clever" in the least bit.
 
And, question to all the knowledgable folks out there...IS there REALLY testimony eviedence from a neighbor claiming to hear a loud verbal fight. IF so, what time frame? What date did this happen? The 15th of June? or a week earlier.
Makes no difference to me. I believe what I believe. Caylee said "SOMETHING" to CA on 6/15. CA threatened KC with finding out more 6/16. KC HAD NO CHOICE in her meek little brain, but to find a way to stop this convo from ever happening. Thus, Caylee's murder. A very simplistic, naive motive. Not "clever" in the least bit.


*my bold.
when yuri counted back he got the month wrong - he should have said june, and given the date of the interview it would be around mid-june.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Couty, Jean-0915.pdf
 
Bond has posited an interesting theory - that the infamous KC / CA battle at the Anthony Homestead took place not on the evening of June 15 but instead occurred on the evening of June 7. IMHO, this is a very important shift in thinking because it could very well mean that KC did not kill Caylee in a sudden fit of rage, but instead had a solid week to think about the deed. This would allow the crime to rise to the level whereby the SA believes the DP is appropriate. :behindbar

To support this theory, I think it would be instructive to look at KC's activity during that time frame, as well as what appears to be her parent's - particularly Cindy's - response to those antics. It is important to remember that CA took vacation time 6/2 to 6/6. In KC's mind this may have meant CA was available for additional Caylee care.

June 1 (Sunday):
At Tony's until early morning - 3 AM. Then back at the 'rents 3:15 AM to 7:00 AM. Back at Tony's 7:30 AM. Anthony's call KC at 7:45 AM - rolls to VM. CA probably never knew KC had been home and asks "where have you been??". No response to the VM so CA texts her at 8:10. Three additional calls throughout the day from the home to KC - all roll to VM.

June 2 (Monday):
KC finally waltzes into the Anthony home around 12:20 AM. Takes Caylee with her to Tony's around 10 AM. Three calls from the home to KC all roll to VM. KC returns with Caylee to the home around 7 PM. This is also the day KC breaks up w/ Ric, and significant text traffic 'tween the two supports this.

June 3 (Tuesday):
At Anthony home all day. Big phone day: 350 texts / calls with Ric and Tony and a smattering of others.

June 4 (Wednesday):
At Anthony home until 3:30 PM, then with Tony for balance of the evening.

June 5 (Thursday - Cindy's birthday):
At Tony's until 3:15 AM. Four calls from the Anthony home post-midnight all roll to VM. At Anthony home until 10:10 AM, then drives out to Rics and then to Tony's, arriving just before noon. Is with Tony until about 7:25 PM, then leaves for the Anthony home, arriving 7:45 PM. During her absence two calls from home roll to VM.

I suppose she is celebrating CA's birthday at this point :birthday:, but not sure how focused she was on it. Besides letting three calls from Ric roll to VM, she exchanges nearly 170 messages with Tony and Ric between 7:45 PM and midnight, with the longest stretch without a text being 13 minutes.

June 6 (Friday):
At the Anthony abode until 4:30 PM, then takes off for Tony's. She and Tony leave go to Fusian around 9:00 PM. They stay through midnight :tipsy:. One call from the Anthony home rolls to VM. Text with Amy at 9:45 PM says "I came into work. Huge mistake. I tried to help setup for an event and got roped into staying a few hours". Way to live the lie.

June 7 (Saturday):
At Fusian until 2:30 AM, then takes off for Tony's. Three back-to-back calls from the Anthony home around 3:40 AM, the first two going to VM and the last KC answers. KC finally arrives back at the Anthony home around 5:10 AM (she takes an odd route that has her drive more toward the airport than normal). Gets about 3 hours sleep, from 5:30 AM to 8:30 AM.

Do ya think that maybe, at this point, CA is just a little annoyed that KC has been taking off to party and who knows what else, and leaving her with Caylee? :waitasec: KC missed her birthday, or certainly did not care it was happening. KC would not answer the phone when they called. Kind of disrespectful, if you ask me. :mad:

So perhaps, around 1:45 PM CA decides to "discuss" the issue with KC. This discussion turns into "the fight" :fight:, and KC leaves the Anthony home in a huff with Caylee at 2:30 PM. This corresponds with uninterrupted time in the cell phone record for such an argument to occur.

Then, at roughly 2:35 PM KC calls the home while en-route to Tony's, but still in the Anthony neighborhood. Possibly to tell CA "I'm outta here and never coming back." The call seems to roll into VM.

Not satisfied, KC calls CA's cell five minutes later, and possibly leaves a similar message.

At 3:10, CA decides she's shunned KC enough so she calls KC...but it rolls to VM. Tit-for-tat?? By now KC is at Tony's, and KC is not about to let CA get the best of her. :snooty:

KC stay's at Tony's until about 8:30 PM - Caylee's bedtime. They head for Ric's, where kids can spend the night. :blowkiss:

They spend the night at Ric's. Unlike previous days and nights, there are no calls from the Anthony home.

June 8 (Sunday):
At Ric's until 1:00 PM, at which point KC and Caylee return to the Anthony home. One call from Anthony home at 11:00 AM. Perhaps KC and CA feel each has doled out sufficient punishment at this point?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

GRRRRRRREAT work ! Thanks again !
This really helps to be able to read these facts all together...
and then
try to tie the phone/text/location etc together...

KC is & was most definitely marching to a S T R A N G E/ ( probably
drug filled life) drumber...

Little Angel Caylee was in the House/car/ etc... LISTENING & Seeing
really bad behavior by her own mother....

Let KC say she is innocent.....
Let the Trial begin... I say the Jury will see the EVIDENCE ~ LE ~ has
gathered...
I say the Jury will make the Right Decison ! ! !

*** Thank God ~ One Day this will end...

Right Now Little CAYLEE is In Heaven ~ She does NOT have
to see & HEAR ~ KC & CA and their voices and arguments
and fighting and all the LIES = LIES + more LIES ! ! !

Thanks :clap::clap: to ALL who are continuing to bring ~JUSTICE ~ for
the tragic Murder/Death of an innocent little 2 year old Toddler !

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram
 
Bond has posited an interesting theory - that the infamous KC / CA battle at the Anthony Homestead took place not on the evening of June 15 but instead occurred on the evening of June 7. IMHO, this is a very important shift in thinking because it could very well mean that KC did not kill Caylee in a sudden fit of rage, but instead had a solid week to think about the deed. This would allow the crime to rise to the level whereby the SA believes the DP is appropriate. :behindbar

To support this theory, I think it would be instructive to look at KC's activity during that time frame, as well as what appears to be her parent's - particularly Cindy's - response to those antics. It is important to remember that CA took vacation time 6/2 to 6/6. In KC's mind this may have meant CA was available for additional Caylee care.

June 1 (Sunday):
At Tony's until early morning - 3 AM. Then back at the 'rents 3:15 AM to 7:00 AM. Back at Tony's 7:30 AM. Anthony's call KC at 7:45 AM - rolls to VM. CA probably never knew KC had been home and asks "where have you been??". No response to the VM so CA texts her at 8:10. Three additional calls throughout the day from the home to KC - all roll to VM.

June 2 (Monday):
KC finally waltzes into the Anthony home around 12:20 AM. Takes Caylee with her to Tony's around 10 AM. Three calls from the home to KC all roll to VM. KC returns with Caylee to the home around 7 PM. This is also the day KC breaks up w/ Ric, and significant text traffic 'tween the two supports this.

June 3 (Tuesday):
At Anthony home all day. Big phone day: 350 texts / calls with Ric and Tony and a smattering of others.

June 4 (Wednesday):
At Anthony home until 3:30 PM, then with Tony for balance of the evening.

June 5 (Thursday - Cindy's birthday):
At Tony's until 3:15 AM. Four calls from the Anthony home post-midnight all roll to VM. At Anthony home until 10:10 AM, then drives out to Rics and then to Tony's, arriving just before noon. Is with Tony until about 7:25 PM, then leaves for the Anthony home, arriving 7:45 PM. During her absence two calls from home roll to VM.

I suppose she is celebrating CA's birthday at this point :birthday:, but not sure how focused she was on it. Besides letting three calls from Ric roll to VM, she exchanges nearly 170 messages with Tony and Ric between 7:45 PM and midnight, with the longest stretch without a text being 13 minutes.

June 6 (Friday):
At the Anthony abode until 4:30 PM, then takes off for Tony's. She and Tony leave go to Fusian around 9:00 PM. They stay through midnight :tipsy:. One call from the Anthony home rolls to VM. Text with Amy at 9:45 PM says "I came into work. Huge mistake. I tried to help setup for an event and got roped into staying a few hours". Way to live the lie.

June 7 (Saturday):
At Fusian until 2:30 AM, then takes off for Tony's. Three back-to-back calls from the Anthony home around 3:40 AM, the first two going to VM and the last KC answers. KC finally arrives back at the Anthony home around 5:10 AM (she takes an odd route that has her drive more toward the airport than normal). Gets about 3 hours sleep, from 5:30 AM to 8:30 AM.

Do ya think that maybe, at this point, CA is just a little annoyed that KC has been taking off to party and who knows what else, and leaving her with Caylee? :waitasec: KC missed her birthday, or certainly did not care it was happening. KC would not answer the phone when they called. Kind of disrespectful, if you ask me. :mad:

So perhaps, around 1:45 PM CA decides to "discuss" the issue with KC. This discussion turns into "the fight" :fight:, and KC leaves the Anthony home in a huff with Caylee at 2:30 PM. This corresponds with uninterrupted time in the cell phone record for such an argument to occur.

Then, at roughly 2:35 PM KC calls the home while en-route to Tony's, but still in the Anthony neighborhood. Possibly to tell CA "I'm outta here and never coming back." The call seems to roll into VM.

Not satisfied, KC calls CA's cell five minutes later, and possibly leaves a similar message.

At 3:10, CA decides she's shunned KC enough so she calls KC...but it rolls to VM. Tit-for-tat?? By now KC is at Tony's, and KC is not about to let CA get the best of her. :snooty:

KC stay's at Tony's until about 8:30 PM - Caylee's bedtime. They head for Ric's, where kids can spend the night. :blowkiss:

They spend the night at Ric's. Unlike previous days and nights, there are no calls from the Anthony home.

June 8 (Sunday):
At Ric's until 1:00 PM, at which point KC and Caylee return to the Anthony home. One call from Anthony home at 11:00 AM. Perhaps KC and CA feel each has doled out sufficient punishment at this point?

I'd just like to insert that Sat. June 7th was the evening in which KC shows up with Caylee to RM's at 11pm. One might think that arriving that late with child in tow, to be after storming out of the A home from a big blowout.

Page 1288 Lines 9-10 Ricardo M. Interview with LE on 7/25/2008
 
Given what we know about this family, would it be so hard to imagine that a huge fight took place on June 7th, followed by another one on June 15th? (June 15th-the "last straw" to KC perhaps?)
Just wondering aloud...

(On a personal opinion note, I like reading facts that support KC never leaving the A home the night of June 15th as I theorize Caylee was killed in Casey's bedroom that night.)

ITA, knowing what we know...it wouldn't be a surprise if there were daily battles about anything and everything.

BUT I think we are looking at at least one if not 2 major blow-outs between CA and KC. And I sure wouldn't want to be a witness to those...
 
I'd just like to insert that Sat. June 7th was the evening in which KC shows up with Caylee to RM's at 11pm. One might think that arriving that late with child in tow, to be after storming out of the A home from a big blowout.

Page 1288 Lines 9-10 Ricardo M. Interview with LE on 7/25/2008

Thanks kew...just wanted to note, however, that KC left the house and headed for Tony's around 2:30, making a couple of parting calls from the car as she drove there. She never returned home that day. Instead, she headed straight to Ric's from Tony's.

If an argument took place that day, it had to happen before 2:30, and I am thinking the likely candidate time is 1:45-ish.
 
ITA, knowing what we know...it wouldn't be a surprise if there were daily battles about anything and everything.

BUT I think we are looking at at least one if not 2 major blow-outs between CA and KC. And I sure wouldn't want to be a witness to those...

They may have had an ongoing argument all week.
 
I'd just like to insert that Sat. June 7th was the evening in which KC shows up with Caylee to RM's at 11pm. One might think that arriving that late with child in tow, to be after storming out of the A home from a big blowout.

Page 1288 Lines 9-10 Ricardo M. Interview with LE on 7/25/2008

Thanks kew...just wanted to note, however, that KC left the house and headed for Tony's around 2:30, making a couple of parting calls from the car as she drove there. She never returned home that day. Instead, she headed straight to Ric's from Tony's.

If an argument took place that day, it had to happen before 2:30, and I am thinking the likely candidate time is 1:45-ish.


The ping records show that she went to Ric's at 8-9 pm. He states in his interview that she came around 11pm.

There is a definite discrepancy. I believe we should go with the cell phone records vs. a memory based interview?
 
In reality we don't know if there was a fight between Cindy and Casey on the 7th or the 15th. The only ones that were supposedly in the house on the 15th was George, Cindy, and Casey. Wasn't it Casey who was supposed to have told Lee about the fight on the 15th? I can just hear her telling her brother "mom and I got into this huge argument and she went after me and started choking me. I thought she was going to kill me!" Casey the drama queen...Casey the liar... wanting to make her mom look bad. I know that Cindy denies there was a fight like that...George probably does too. Has Casey denied that she ever said that? Remember, this is the girl that said her brother tried to have sex with her...her dad had a stroke or heart attack..and that she was going to have the house to herself as her parents were moving. All lies to get attention. Why not a big fight with Cindy and Cindy tried to choke her? Why are people willing to believe that one when everyone knows what a liar Casey is?

--emphasis mine

I'm not sure about the choking incident, but I can believe there was a BIG fight because we have proof (audio/video tapes) that show us how they interacted. Their relationship was extremely volatile...a ticking timebomb. Their dance consisted of yelling, degrading, cursing, manipulating and vying for control. They had zero respect for each other. KC might be lying about the choking incident, but I have very little doubt that there was a big fight - bigger and dirtier than ever - that precipitated Caylee's murder. Also, consider KC's statement to her brother, "...because I'm a spiteful b*tch."

I don't believe it just because KC said it, thats for sure! lol
 
WHEN - what day -did CA discover the partying photos (Fusian?) that proved KC wasn't at work prompting her to confront her with, "...so you were at work, huh"? I can't recall and I'm too swamped right now to dig around for it. TIA
 
WHEN - what day -did CA discover the partying photos (Fusian?) that proved KC wasn't at work prompting her to confront her with, "...so you were at work, huh"? I can't recall and I'm too swamped right now to dig around for it. TIA


I think that was sometime mid May '08 ..
 
And now...we interrupt this thread for a word from our sponsor...

Thanks to everyone for staying civil & on-topic! Much appreciated :blowkiss:

:detective: I'm thoroughly enjoyin' all the constructive sleuthin' goin' on :thumb:

...and now we return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
 
WHEN - what day -did CA discover the partying photos (Fusian?) that proved KC wasn't at work prompting her to confront her with, "...so you were at work, huh"? I can't recall and I'm too swamped right now to dig around for it. TIA

...:yow:...why do I wanna think that was a pic of flag-wrapped-Casey @ the Lake Vaj ABC party? If it was, then discovery had to be post-Memorial Day weekend...

[Narrator] "playing the part of Mr. Obvious today...BJB" :bang:
 
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