Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[beach]

Great posts on this thread concerning the first week of June and a fight in the A home. This was Cindy's week off of work and her Birthday. Casey left Caylee, for most of the week, to be cared for by Cindy. I can't see an argument not happening given Casey's behavior. There is also the information from Debbie P (Cindy's supervisor) where she tells Detectives about a fight in this same time frame. Debbie says this fight happened before Cindy started complaining that Casey wouldn't let her talk to Caylee (prior to June 16). Cindy told Debbie, when she came back to work from that week's vacation, that Casey was hardly there and she watched Caylee most of the time that week.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530380/detail.html

Info on interview w/ Debbie P. on page 3067

Thank you SO much for posting that link! It is surreal how obvious some things seem now in re. this discussion about the first week of June. I noted them the first time I read them (doc dump), but reading it now...some things are just blatant.

The whole interview is telling, but these parts particularly stood out to me -

in context -
Cindy told her she was having family problems and wanted to take KC and Caylee on a trip so they could bond. Upon returning from vacation, Cindy told her, "Casey was never around and she (Cynthia) had Caylee pretty much the whole time. Casey hadn't even called or talked to her on her birthday, which was June 5th."
Obviously this bothered (hurt) Cindy very much or why would she even mention it? Cindy seems too proud and has that quest to portray the perfect family. Debbie said that before June, Cindy never let on that there were ever any problems, so this is out of character for her. At least to confess it to a co-worker/supervisor.


in context -
Debbie is talking about July 15th now. She relays the Amscot story to LE.
"Cindy told them the car was found at Amscot with the baby's doll and backpack inside"...and that "there was a really, really bad smell in the car."
Again, WHY would Cindy tell this if it wasn't a RED FLAG?!?

I think it is important that Debbie stated that prior to this week she "had never heard Cynthia complain or talk about any problems with her home life." imo, Cindy was about to explode.

thanks again for linking that interview, searchfortruth! :blowkiss:

 

[MAMABEAR]

I don't know if this has been brought up in the thread but thought I would post it anyways. Here is the interview of the neighbor who heard 2 arguments of KC and CA. I thought it was interesting to note that KC jogged..

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Couty, Jean-0915.pdf

Thanks---neighbor said "CA was always very nice to her daughter". May have to rethink their relationship. Well, probably not, CA would always be nice in public. Never-mind.

Yes, there are several mentions of her jogging---in this case. There was that time with the neighbor and then a friend said he saw her joggin and didn't she tell him it wasn't her? Is that all?

 

[beach]

And then, there's GA, the employment-challenged.

-respectfully snipped

you cracked me up!!! LOLOLOL

 

[MAMABEAR]

Yes, and along with all of the other conditions leading up to this day that are being discussed here like CA's B-day and having received no special treatment, CA's vacation and having received no special consideration and CA's continuation of trying to get the point across to KC that she can't just come and go as she pleases all led up to something very bad - an explosion of some sort.

Many of us here have come to the crossroad when a woman "changes". A few months ago, in the parking lot, peeps were talking about this subject. I chimed in and was saying "hate it, hormonal wreck, blah,blah,blah." A young woman posted "my friend, much older than me, is so different. She used to be my best friend. How long will this last? I miss her so much." I felt kind of funny and stated, "I never went ballistic or anything." The tone of her post was strange and I got this weird sense it was KC posting referring to her relationship with CA. An eerie feeling came over me.

There is a sudden change in ones energy level (at least with me) that happens with the change. Once a woman who had always fixed this, delt with that, figured this out, aided this and that, ran here and back again, washed this and that and that and this again and again, told everyone everyday where this is and where that is and did you remember to do that, planted and folded and made and cleaned and packed and registered and distributed and collected and called and answered and went and volunteered and cut out coupons and shopped and shopped and vacuumed and washed and dusted and cleaned and learned and decorated and gathered and looked after and read to and wrote to and mailed and communicated and gathered gifts and wrapped and thanked and remembered and swept and nursed and dentist and doctor and covered down and paid bills and filed and entertained and cooked and studied Martha Stewart style and entertained and planned and carried out and fell down on floor and still entertained and moved and moved again and again and buried soldiers and cried and comforted and moved and buried neighbor and cried and fought cancer and cried and moved and waited through war and cried and prayed and prayed and carried on everyday because that is what women do.

Let's just say, it comes as quite a shock to the peeps around you when you don't/can't/won't do all those things single handedly anymore.

I have a feeling CA had/was coming to this place and something went terribly wrong. She had been the backbone we have to admit that. Right or wrong whatever the personality, it was she who ran that ship. Her "mates" were happy as long as she kept running it while taking care of everything at the same time. Her gas tank stayed full (unlike everyone elses who could not rub two sticks together to build any sort of lasting fire in her case) until it finally ran out of gas for the first time ever. And the world came tumbling down. The end.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
OMG------WTG--------WOW---THANKS!
This post should be framed. Where is that other post that needs to be framed. Is there a thread for post like this?

 

[Noddy]

Thanks---neighbor said "CA was always very nice to her daughter". May have to rethink their relationship. Well, probably not, CA would always be nice in public. Never-mind.

Yes, there are several mentions of her jogging---in this case. There was that time with the neighbor and then a friend said he saw her joggin and didn't she tell him it wasn't her? Is that all?

Hi MAMABEAR, the friend that saw her jogging was Chris S. Page 12 on the following transcript. The transcript is incorrectly dated June 30. They had an awful time keeping June and July straight at the beginning and keeping KC and Caylee's name straight as well. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/05 Chris Stutz Transcript.pdf

 

[Bobbisangel]

--emphasis mine

I'm not sure about the choking incident, but I can believe there was a BIG fight because we have proof (audio/video tapes) that show us how they interacted. Their relationship was extremely volatile...a ticking timebomb. Their dance consisted of yelling, degrading, cursing, manipulating and vying for control. They had zero respect for each other. KC might be lying about the choking incident, but I have very little doubt that there was a big fight - bigger and dirtier than ever - that precipitated Caylee's murder. Also, consider KC's statement to her brother, "...because I'm a spiteful b*tch."

I don't believe it just because KC said it, thats for sure! lol

Thanks so much for your answer. I was just curious because I have never seen anywhere that said it was fact that they had the knock down fight and Cindy tried to choke Casey. Not that choking her wouldn't have been a great idea!! I know that they fought all of the time and probably did fight that night but I was just curious about why everyone is so willing to believe that this fight took place when it is a known fact that Casey lies with every breath. I don't think that the murder of Caylee hinges on this particuliar fight on the 15th. Even if there was no fight Casey would have carried out her plans because Caylee was really getting in the way of Casey's sleeping around and partying. She was tired of the responsibility of Caylee and wanted her freedom.

 

[Brini]

Bold mine

She created it, just as she did in George, it was her supply IMHO



Bold mine

Desperate people do desperate things. Any port in a storm for KC.

The storm was Hopespring Drive, the casualty, Caylee Marie Anthony

Yep! Caylee was their "tug toy."

 

[Brini]

It appears BOTH women were finding themselves rapidly falling toward an inevitable confrontation(s) in their own lives AND with each other. Juggling their unraveling respective facades was proving too much to manage, and a bold move had to be taken before they suffered the consequences of their denial/lies. Again, the "Perfect Storm" analogy comes in to play during those first weeks of June... and darling little Caylee was the ultimate sacrifice

Slightly OT,
My Hubby has a background in Psych, and I recall long ago, he was relating something he was reading (probably Freudian as it sounded pretty laden with male-centric ideals and female slandering) about the confluence of two pivotal moments in a females life that revolve around the Mother and her Oldest Daughter.

The premise, FWIR, surrounds the timing of the Daughter's life- blossoming into adulthood and coming into her own sexuality, and the complex interplay with the Mother's own journey away from her sexuality(menopause) and lose of value with her inability to bear children.

If not in a healthy, supportive environment for both women, a perceived threat can take seed in the Mother. The Daughter's inevitable ascent into adulthood is then (temporarily) repressed by the Mother in an attempt to delay her own departure. The Daughter rebels against the repression and flaunts her sexuality in return. An undercurrent of rivalry develops as the trust between the women erodes while they each react to their own societal value..

Again, this is only a vague recollection of what he told me. Take it for what it's worth...:crazy:

I have a couple degrees in psych, and am a psych nurse. Here's one of my theories. Tight control on a child with behavioral problems takes some of the focus off a problematic marriage. The family dysfunctions start to come to the fore when the kid grows up and the parents start losing control. Then, attention turns back to the marital problems.

I think KC's problems are the family focus. But, with her in jail, and out of the house, the marital problems are also surfacing.

Prediction-- divorce, after all of this shakes down.

 

[Leila]

I was pondering your thought and had the following thought; CA began to cover up "pizza smell vs. dead body smell" immediately AFTER LE came out with the picture of Caylee taken at Mt. Dora on June 15. That discovery placed CA as the last person that cared for Caylee. I can picture CA walking (from where?), looking over her left shoulder and saying into a reporters mic "It was rotten pizza in the trunk. Do you know how hot its been in Florida?" What day was that and from where was CA leaving?
That is the day she changed iirc.

I'm not making this up! I'm not trying to fit stuff where it doesn't fit. It is what it is. The reason CA said June 7 (yes, last 911 call) is because she was intentionally removing herself from Caylee's last day imo.

When things make sense, they just do.:flashbak:

That was the day of the bond hearing - the Tuesday after Casey had been arrested. I think it was June 22nd. Cindy and George were leaving the courthouse after the bond hearing and Cindy was clearly upset. This is when she said she was a "nurse of decomposition." George took her by the arm and was steering her away from the courthouse while the reporters followed. It was then that Cindy yelled over her shoulder to the reporters, "It was rotten pizza in the trunk. Do you know what pizza smells like that's been sitting in a trunk for, what, 19 days in the hot Florida sun!"

 

[PattyCake]

Can anyone tell me about Cindy???

Why in her depo was she threatening & pushing for the lawyer to 'go there' about the fight. "I did not fight with my daughter, go there, lets go there..."

Something to that effect.

Why? Did she have the 'perfect' story set up about the fight? Why was it so important to 'go there'? :waitasec:

 

[Jolynna]

I have a couple degrees in psych, and am a psych nurse. Here's one of my theories. Tight control on a child with behavioral problems takes some of the focus off a problematic marriage. The family dysfunctions start to come to the fore when the kid grows up and the parents start losing control. Then, attention turns back to the marital problems.

I think KC's problems are the family focus. But, with her in jail, and out of the house, the marital problems are also surfacing.

Prediction-- divorce, after all of this shakes down.

Brini, I'm thinking the marital battles and money situation were the family focus that drained George and Cindy and made it easier for Casey to get away with things.

I even think Cindy turned her head the other way to secure Casey as an ally against George. Cindy wanted the kids on her side. Remember when Cindy told George to STOP being a detective and NOT to check up on Casey?

I think George was the family scapegoat.

Shirley and all of Cindy's friends had been hearing about George's shortcomings for months and months.When Casey stole money, Cindy replaced the money and tried to downplay the situation. She didn't run around complaining about Casey the way she complained about George. Ever. Until after June 16.

After June 16, Shirley started e-mailing about Casey causing problems. Cindy did not say anything bad to her co-workers about Casey before that either. Cindy's talk with Ryan where Cindy said Casey was a sociopath was after June 16 when Cindy was looking for Casey and Caylee.

Casey made fun of George on myspace telling Lee that she should give him "Getting a Job for Dummies" for his birthday.

I think the Anthony family openly disrespected George.

After Cindy wrote to her mother and told her that she and George were staying together for the sake of the house, Cindy turned to her attention to "fixing" Casey.





JMO

 

[Leila]

Casey met TL for the first time on May 24th after they had established a relationship online through Facebook. TL invited Casey to a birthday party that was being given for a friend of his. They hit it off and Casey apparently fell head over heels for TL.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that from that point on - May 24th - there was a real tug of war between Casey and Cindy. As Casey opted for TL in lieu of her responsibilities to Caylee, she and Cindy argued, probably pretty much on a daily basis. Not that Casey was responsible before TL came into her life, but now her desire to be with TL as much as possible, made her even more irresponsible, if that's possible. Casey would do anything to be with TL and her new friends, and if that inconvenienced her mother, that was okay by her.......she just didn't care.

So, I can see daily arguments between Cindy and Casey and the likelihood of an explosive argument sometime the first week of June and again, on June 15th. Whether or not Cindy choked Casey is not really important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is what threats may have been made by either party.

Something happened that was the catalyst for the events that followed June 15, 2008 that resulted in the death of Caylee.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It appears BOTH women were finding themselves rapidly falling toward an inevitable confrontation(s) in their own lives AND with each other. Juggling their unraveling respective facades was proving too much to manage, and a bold move had to be taken before they suffered the consequences of their denial/lies. Again, the "Perfect Storm" analogy comes in to play during those first weeks of June... and darling little Caylee was the ultimate sacrifice

Slightly OT,
My Hubby has a background in Psych, and I recall long ago, he was relating something he was reading (probably Freudian as it sounded pretty laden with male-centric ideals and female slandering) about the confluence of two pivotal moments in a females life that revolve around the Mother and her Oldest Daughter.

The premise, FWIR, surrounds the timing of the Daughter's life- blossoming into adulthood and coming into her own sexuality, and the complex interplay with the Mother's own journey away from her sexuality(menopause) and lose of value with her inability to bear children.

If not in a healthy, supportive environment for both women, a perceived threat can take seed in the Mother. The Daughter's inevitable ascent into adulthood is then (temporarily) repressed by the Mother in an attempt to delay her own departure. The Daughter rebels against the repression and flaunts her sexuality in return. An undercurrent of rivalry develops as the trust between the women erodes while they each react to their own societal value..

Again, this is only a vague recollection of what he told me. Take it for what it's worth...:crazy:

Wow that is really deep and I'm sure there is truth to conflict arising in significant relationships during times of transition. Here's how I see it in simplified terms; I raised you. I love you. Please leave my house now. I'm tired and want time to do my own thing. I will enjoy seeing you often. Please bring your happy self when you come to see me. I will always be here for you if you need me but try not to need me all the time. I want good things for you but your life is yours so go live it.

 

[Jolynna]

Casey met TL for the first time on May 24th after they had established a relationship online through Facebook. TL invited Casey to a birthday party that was being given for a friend of his. They hit it off and Casey apparently fell head over heels for TL.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that from that point on - May 24th - there was a real tug of war between Casey and Cindy. As Casey opted for TL in lieu of her responsibilities to Caylee, she and Cindy argued, probably pretty much on a daily basis. Not that Casey was responsible before TL came into her life, but now her desire to be with TL as much as possible, made her even more irresponsible, if that's possible. Casey would do anything to be with TL and her new friends, and if that inconvenienced her mother, that was okay by her.......she just didn't care.

So, I can see daily arguments between Cindy and Casey and the likelihood of an explosive argument sometime the first week of June and again, on June 15th. Whether or not Cindy choked Casey is not really important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is what threats may have been made by either party.

Something happened that was the catalyst for the events that followed June 15, 2008 that resulted in the death of Caylee.

I agree.

As JWG pointed out, the week Cindy took off to "bond" with Caylee and Casey, Casey was breaking up with Ric and explosively falling head-over-heels for Tony. She disrespectfully did not return phone calls, drug home at 3 a.m. and 5 a.m. and had to be called several times to show up to see her mother on the mother's birthday.

I think there was a fight over that weekend and that as a result Casey punished her mom by sleeping over with RM with Caylee.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
OMG------WTG--------WOW---THANKS!
This post should be framed. Where is that other post that needs to be framed. Is there a thread for post like this?

Mamabear, it just came pouring out.

As complicated as the A's are, I can still see through to their humanness.
As much as I hate what has happened to an innocent little girl, I can sense some of the struggles they are/were embroiled in.

We all have struggles. Thank the good Lord above when we manage to manage them without bringing tragedy on to ourselves. I think it was BJB who wrote that he wouldn't want to be in their shoes. Boy, I second that emotion. I'm always afraid if I think I know exactly what's wrong with that SOB, etc. that the next thing I know I'll be going through something similar! I try to understand what may have led them to become the way they are. We can all learn throughout our whole lives.

 

[beach]

Can anyone tell me about Cindy???

Why in her depo was she threatening & pushing for the lawyer to 'go there' about the fight. "I did not fight with my daughter, go there, lets go there..."

Something to that effect.

Why? Did she have the 'perfect' story set up about the fight? Why was it so important to 'go there'? :waitasec:

I don't know, so this is pure speculation on my part, but I believe it was her opportunity to attack that widespread public assumption. It seemed like, "FINALLY! a question I don't have to dance around manipulating my words to try to answer!" She as much as dared him to keep on with that line of questioning. The atty. questioning her asked about the fight in context of the June 15th date and her answer was also given in that frame of reference. So Cindy (using the June 15th date in the most literal way) refuted that she and KC had a fight. Of course, one of the main reasons the public believed it to begin with was because LA had made that statement to several people because his sister had told him that.

Frankly, her loud, dramatic, knee-jerk reaction was my first clue that there may not have been a fight on June 15th. She was toooo thrilled that the atty. had 'gone there' and couldn't wait to watch him 'make an *advertiser censored* of himself'. Sooo, maybe there wasn't a fight complete with CA attempting to choke KC on June 15th, but I would bet my last bottom dollar that there was a BIG fight sometime between June 1st and June 15th.

like i said, pure speculation on my part, so take it fwiw.

 

[costalpilot]

It appears BOTH women were finding themselves rapidly falling toward an inevitable confrontation(s) in their own lives AND with each other. Juggling their unraveling respective facades was proving too much to manage, and a bold move had to be taken before they suffered the consequences of their denial/lies. Again, the "Perfect Storm" analogy comes in to play during those first weeks of June... and darling little Caylee was the ultimate sacrifice

Slightly OT,
My Hubby has a background in Psych, and I recall long ago, he was relating something he was reading (probably Freudian as it sounded pretty laden with male-centric ideals and female slandering) about the confluence of two pivotal moments in a females life that revolve around the Mother and her Oldest Daughter.

The premise, FWIR, surrounds the timing of the Daughter's life- blossoming into adulthood and coming into her own sexuality, and the complex interplay with the Mother's own journey away from her sexuality(menopause) and lose of value with her inability to bear children.

If not in a healthy, supportive environment for both women, a perceived threat can take seed in the Mother. The Daughter's inevitable ascent into adulthood is then (temporarily) repressed by the Mother in an attempt to delay her own departure. The Daughter rebels against the repression and flaunts her sexuality in return. An undercurrent of rivalry develops as the trust between the women erodes while they each react to their own societal value..

Again, this is only a vague recollection of what he told me. Take it for what it's worth...:crazy:

well, at the very least, I think it can be said that, for whatever reason, these two women didn't get along.

probably not unusual when one is "spiteful *****" and the other is "mother of spiteful *****".

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Brini, I'm thinking the marital battles and money situation were the family focus that drained George and Cindy and made it easier for Casey to get away with things.

I even think Cindy turned her head the other way to secure Casey as an ally against George. Cindy wanted the kids on her side. Remember when Cindy told George to STOP being a detective and NOT to check up on Casey?

I think George was the family scapegoat.

Shirley and all of Cindy's friends had been hearing about George's shortcomings for months and months.When Casey stole money, Cindy replaced the money and tried to downplay the situation. She didn't run around complaining about Casey the way she complained about George. Ever. Until after June 16.

After June 16, Shirley started e-mailing about Casey causing problems. Cindy did not say anything bad to her co-workers about Casey before that either. Cindy's talk with Ryan where Cindy said Casey was a sociopath was after June 16 when Cindy was looking for Casey and Caylee.

Casey made fun of George on myspace telling Lee that she should give him "Getting a Job for Dummies" for his birthday.

I think the Anthony family openly disrespected George.

After Cindy wrote to her mother and told her that she and George were staying together for the sake of the house, Cindy turned to her attention to "fixing" Casey.





JMO

Wow, this is very telling. Everything seems to be pointing to CA covering for herself. This is amazing stuff here. I'm really beginning to think that CA was present when whatever happened happened. She could never be at fault in any way so now she turns the tables.

I wonder if GA once had a bad drinking problem that caused his demise during what should of been his most productive years. This theme was woven into LA Law tonight.

 

[ibyoungr]

Due to Cindy's Aug 1st interview, which is only in audio format and has not yet been transcribed and put in a document dump.

She was not home on June 7th during the day. She went to the beach with George. She remembers having Caylee that night and definitely the night of the 8th.

Cindy’s Aug 1st audio interview:
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sideba...o_recordings_released_by_law_enforcement.html
Minute mark 29:45

I suggest everyone get there headphones on and listen to this interview. Part 1 is quite long. However, it is chocked full of information about the last week of May and first week of June.

 

[Jolynna]

It seems like after June 10, Casey tried to do better. She was home on June 10 by 4:39 p.m. and stayed there. She took Caylee to the mall with Tony the next day.

June 11, Casey was home by 8:22 and stayed until the next day.

June 12, Casey ran over to AL's at 1:31 p.m., but was home by 6:13 p.m.

THEN, on June 13, Casey backslides. Cindy has to call to get Casey home by 3:48 a.m. June 14.

On father's day, Casey heads for Tony's by 9:15. She doesn't get home until 7:36 and is texting and talking on the phone every single second.

I think Cindy was fuming over Casey's disrespect, how she was disrupting the household tromping in and out in a.m. hours when George and Cindy were trying to sleep. Plus she was helping herself to Cindy's credit cards. And maybe even on the drive to Mr. Dora, CAylee told grandma that Zanny with the drums (RM) was a boy.

I think there were fights on both June 8 AND June 15.

IMO