Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[ibyoungr]

It seems like after June 10, Casey tried to do better. She was home on June 10 by 4:39 p.m. and stayed there. She took Caylee to the mall with Tony the next day.

June 11, Casey was home by 8:22 and stayed until the next day.

June 12, Casey ran over to AL's at 1:31 p.m., but was home by 6:13 p.m.

THEN, on June 13, Casey backslides. Cindy has to call to get Casey home by 3:48 a.m. June 14.

On father's day, Casey heads for Tony's by 9:15. She doesn't get home until 7:36 and is texting and talking on the phone every single second.

I think Cindy was fuming over Casey's disrespect, how she was disrupting the household tromping in and out in a.m. hours when George and Cindy were trying to sleep. Plus she was helping herself to Cindy's credit cards. And maybe even on the drive to Mr. Dora, CAylee told grandma that Zanny with the drums (RM) was a boy.

I think there were fights on both June 8 AND June 15.

IMO

June 8th Casey pings at home all day. Cindy in the audio interview says she went up to Mt Dora to visit her dad. She went both the 8th and the 15th. The fight probably broke out after Cindy returned from Mt Dora on both Sundays...

chit rolls down hill.. SP gave the what for to Cindy... Cindy came home and gave it to Casey... Casey took it out on Caylee....

 

[BondJamesBond]

Due to Cindy's Aug 1st interview, which is only in audio format and has not yet been transcribed and put in a document dump.

She was not home on June 7th during the day. She went to the beach with George. She remembers having Caylee that night and definitely the night of the 8th.

Cindy’s Aug 1st audio interview:
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sideba...o_recordings_released_by_law_enforcement.html
Minute mark 29:45

I suggest everyone get there headphones on and listen to this interview. Part 1 is quite long. However, it is chocked full of information about the last week of May and first week of June.

*bold by me*

IIRC, this is one of two interviews BeanE :blowkiss: summarized for us in on the 6/10-6/14 thread that included this period.

BeanE's summary of Cindy's interview here
BeanE's summary of Jesse's interview here

...and BTW...anyone that subjected themselves to listening to & summarizing these for the sake of WS's...deserves a big TY...so, thanks IBY...and don't forget to give BeanE a big TY if you go read the summaries linked above. :thumb:

 

[reeseeva]

Can anyone tell me about Cindy???

Why in her depo was she threatening & pushing for the lawyer to 'go there' about the fight. "I did not fight with my daughter, go there, lets go there..."

Something to that effect.

Why? Did she have the 'perfect' story set up about the fight? Why was it so important to 'go there'? :waitasec:

I think he struck a "nerve", & if he was referring specifically to June 15th, & CA knew it was another day,(maybe June9th), as they were all fixated on that date for awhile, she could now attack & nail him.

Also, with CA, it's a matter of semantics with her, & her interpretation & spin on anything thrown at her. She could see "argue" as a better word, as most likely commonplace. "I did not fight with my daughter" We had an argument & I choked her, but I did not fight with my daughter. Maybe??

And, never forget, "Lying is not a Crime" The World according to Cindy A.

 

[Mamabear1963]

I think he struck a "nerve", & if he was referring specifically to June 15th, & CA knew it was another day,(maybe June9th), as they were all fixated on that date for awhile, she could now attack & nail him.

Also, with CA, it's a matter of semantics with her, & her interpretation & spin on anything thrown at her. She could see "argue" as a better word, as most likely commonplace. "I did not fight with my daughter" We had an argument & I choked her, but I did not fight with my daughter. Maybe??

And, never forget, "Lying is not a Crime" The World according to Cindy A.

ITA, that using the word argue...or maybe discussion...I know in our family growing up we didn't use the word fight...it was discussion or argument...and they were heated.

Listening to the audio now...gosh...dates...aren't her thing...but some things are exactly like the depo.

the confusion on dates is the same when she was off...when CA and GA went to the beach...the fact that she is tired under stress lack of sleep. I feel like CA memorized (did her homework) some segments of that interview...but the parts she was confused on...

Now that I have veered off topic I will make my exit.:crazy:

 

[Searchfortruth]

Thanks so much for your answer. I was just curious because I have never seen anywhere that said it was fact that they had the knock down fight and Cindy tried to choke Casey. Not that choking her wouldn't have been a great idea!! I know that they fought all of the time and probably did fight that night but I was just curious about why everyone is so willing to believe that this fight took place when it is a known fact that Casey lies with every breath. I don't think that the murder of Caylee hinges on this particuliar fight on the 15th. Even if there was no fight Casey would have carried out her plans because Caylee was really getting in the way of Casey's sleeping around and partying. She was tired of the responsibility of Caylee and wanted her freedom.

I was one of those that thought there had to be a knock down drag out fight on the 15th, am starting to open up to the possibility that it might not have been just one event that lead to Caylee's death, but quite a few. Just by looking at the number of hours Casey spent on the phone, as a mother of twenty year old daughter's, I can say with certainty there would be some fights going on in my house, if I had that to put up with. As far as Cindy's denial of any turmoil in her house, it reminds me of the saying, "the lady doth protest too much". I think Cindy knows were she to come clean about all of the arguments, it would provide motive for the state...she's got it figured out and knows exactly why Caylee died, IMO.

 

[ibyoungr]

*bold by me*

IIRC, this is one of two interviews BeanE :blowkiss: summarized for us in on the 6/10-6/14 thread that included this period.

BeanE's summary of Cindy's interview here
BeanE's summary of Jesse's interview here

...and BTW...anyone that subjected themselves to listening to & summarizing these for the sake of WS's...deserves a big TY...so, thanks IBY...and don't forget to give BeanE a big TY if you go read the summaries linked above. :thumb:

I gleaned other information as well.... and I have some dispute over Det Edwards stating in Cindy's interview that Ric told him it was May 31st that Casey stayed at Ric's, left, took Caylee home and then returned. Det Edwards had a lot on his plate and was confusing this. But twice, once in Lee's interview he states that Ric said May 30th and then in Cindy's interview he states that Ric said May 31st. In all reality, Ric said "sometime while they were DATING" Ric said they broke it off in April but remained friends, still hung out. This is why in the interview Cindy does not recall a time in MAY that Casey came home with Caylee in the middle of the night and then returned. They can not give a correct answer to an imperfect question.

Other information I would include is:
Cindy and George had Caylee most nights and every Saturday morning and Sundays. Caylee was usually with Cindy at night. Casey was home after work by 8/9 pm if it was a early night and if it was a late night 12/1 AM.

George's day off were Friday and Saturdays since April, this is when he went from day shift to afternoon shift. Before that he was off on Sat and Sundays.

Cindy did go to Mt Dora on Friday night May 30th. George and Cindy went to the beach on June 7th.

Cindy is pretty sure she had Caylee that Saturday night the 31st. Casey had to work or she thought she was working.

Part way into the OSCO interview, Cindy did say that towards the end of May, through June and July, Casey, if she did stay overnight which would have just been a couple of nights here or there...Casey told her she was staying with Zanny at Zanny's apt. Cindy did not know about Ric as a boyfriend until this all broke loose.

My ears have not bled yet. I am thinking that this interveiw as long as it is was not finished transcribed and will be in the next document dump if not one soon. One thing to keep in mind while listening to the interview is to remember this is August 1 and what we know now is NOT what Cindy or even we knew then. Listen to the audio in the context that Cindy was just learning how much her daughter lied to her.

 

[Muzikman]

*bold by me*

IIRC, this is one of two interviews BeanE :blowkiss: summarized for us in on the 6/10-6/14 thread that included this period.

BeanE's summary of Cindy's interview here
BeanE's summary of Jesse's interview here

...and BTW...anyone that subjected themselves to listening to & summarizing these for the sake of WS's...deserves a big TY...so, thanks IBY...and don't forget to give BeanE a big TY if you go read the summaries linked above. :thumb:

Just for the record, the E-Pass records show them taking George's car to the beach on June 7 - Leaving around 10:37 AM, getting back around 3:42 PM.

 

[Whyamisointerested]

I gleaned other information as well.... and I have some dispute over Det Edwards stating in Cindy's interview that Ric told him it was May 31st that Casey stayed at Ric's, left, took Caylee home and then returned. Det Edwards had a lot on his plate and was confusing this. But twice, once in Lee's interview he states that Ric said May 30th and then in Cindy's interview he states that Ric said May 31st. In all reality, Ric said "sometime while they were DATING" Ric said they broke it off in April but remained friends, still hung out. This is why in the interview Cindy does not recall a time in MAY that Casey came home with Caylee in the middle of the night and then returned. They can not give a correct answer to an imperfect question.

Other information I would include is:
Cindy and George had Caylee most nights and every Saturday morning and Sundays. Caylee was usually with Cindy at night. Casey was home after work by 8/9 pm if it was a early night and if it was a late night 12/1 AM.

George's day off were Friday and Saturdays since April, this is when he went from day shift to afternoon shift. Before that he was off on Sat and Sundays.

Cindy did go to Mt Dora on Friday night May 30th. George and Cindy went to the beach on June 7th.

Cindy is pretty sure she had Caylee that Saturday night the 31st. Casey had to work or she thought she was working.

Part way into the OSCO interview, Cindy did say that towards the end of May, through June and July, Casey, if she did stay overnight which would have just been a couple of nights here or there...Casey told her she was staying with Zanny at Zanny's apt. Cindy did not know about Ric as a boyfriend until this all broke loose.

My ears have not bled yet. I am thinking that this interveiw as long as it is was not finished transcribed and will be in the next document dump if not one soon. One thing to keep in mind while listening to the interview is to remember this is August 1 and what we know now is NOT what Cindy or even we knew then. Listen to the audio in the context that Cindy was just learning how much her daughter lied to her.

Thanks! Those are hard to listen to, I know..What amazes me how she never mentions KC going out or hanging with her friends, poor KC is just ALWAYS working early in the a.m. ,,late at night...j:bang: just weird..carry on..

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

Just for the record, the E-Pass records show them taking George's car to the beach on June 7 - Leaving around 10:37 AM, getting back around 3:42 PM.

Thanks for noticing that, Muzikman. That expains where she was when I pointed out a couple pages back that they couldn't have fought that afternoon because Cindy was gone. I'm still trying to figure out what brought Casey south of home at 5am that morning though. Cindy said George went to afternoon shift the end of April or first of May so it isn't so likely he'd be at work headquarters needing a ride home then. Nothing would be open of interest at that time of day and I know of no friends South of home. Was anyone coming in on a flight that she might be picking up at the airport on the 7th? Since the 7th and 9th are the incorrect dates given to Caylee last being seen early on, this could be important.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I gleaned other information as well.... and I have some dispute over Det Edwards stating in Cindy's interview that Ric told him it was May 31st that Casey stayed at Ric's, left, took Caylee home and then returned. Det Edwards had a lot on his plate and was confusing this. But twice, once in Lee's interview he states that Ric said May 30th and then in Cindy's interview he states that Ric said May 31st. In all reality, Ric said "sometime while they were DATING" Ric said they broke it off in April but remained friends, still hung out. This is why in the interview Cindy does not recall a time in MAY that Casey came home with Caylee in the middle of the night and then returned. They can not give a correct answer to an imperfect question.

Other information I would include is:
Cindy and George had Caylee most nights and every Saturday morning and Sundays. Caylee was usually with Cindy at night. Casey was home after work by 8/9 pm if it was a early night and if it was a late night 12/1 AM.

George's day off were Friday and Saturdays since April, this is when he went from day shift to afternoon shift. Before that he was off on Sat and Sundays.

Cindy did go to Mt Dora on Friday night May 30th. George and Cindy went to the beach on June 7th.

Cindy is pretty sure she had Caylee that Saturday night the 31st. Casey had to work or she thought she was working.

Part way into the OSCO interview, Cindy did say that towards the end of May, through June and July, Casey, if she did stay overnight which would have just been a couple of nights here or there...Casey told her she was staying with Zanny at Zanny's apt. Cindy did not know about Ric as a boyfriend until this all broke loose.

My ears have not bled yet. I am thinking that this interveiw as long as it is was not finished transcribed and will be in the next document dump if not one soon. One thing to keep in mind while listening to the interview is to remember this is August 1 and what we know now is NOT what Cindy or even we knew then. Listen to the audio in the context that Cindy was just learning how much her daughter lied to her.

Great post. A thought on the bolded portion of your post...while this was early in the investigation, Cindy's multitude of calls and texts to Casey starting around July 1 tells me that she was worried. I assume that George told Cindy that Casey showed up at the house on June 24th ( Casey was telling Cindy she was in Tampa at this point). I doubt that Cindy was just learning of Casey's lies in this police interview. It is my opinion that Cindy knew much more during this interview than she was telling investigators. My opinion only.

 

[nephers]

Thanks for noticing that, Muzikman. That expains where she was when I pointed out a couple pages back that they couldn't have fought that afternoon because Cindy was gone. I'm still trying to figure out what brought Casey south of home at 5am that morning though. Cindy said George went to afternoon shift the end of April or first of May so it isn't so likely he'd be at work headquarters needing a ride home then. Nothing would be open of interest at that time of day and I know of no friends South of home. Was anyone coming in on a flight that she might be picking up at the airport on the 7th? Since the 7th and 9th are the incorrect dates given to Caylee last being seen early on, this could be important.

Bolded by me... Maybe a 24 hour McDonalds or a piece offering of grabbing fresh donuts for the family?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Just for the record, the E-Pass records show them taking George's car to the beach on June 7 - Leaving around 10:37 AM, getting back around 3:42 PM.

Outstanding! :clap:

Hmmmmm....so Casey's call to the home phone @ 2:30PM as she left (per pings) for <1min musta just been a message for G&C, eh?

Also note that Cindy called Casey from her cell phone @ 3:06PM (w/ G&C enroute back to the house I guess), it rolled to vmail, and became a ~25 second message for Casey.

Sooooo....hmmmmm.....Casey off to Tony's with Caylee before Cindy & George got home from the beach, eh?

Seems Casey's m.o. woulda been to wait for G&C to get home so she could skip out Caylee-free. :waitasec:

Casey was running on ~3hrs of sleep and got up @ 8:46AM to take a call from Tony. Almost continuous texting 'tween Casey & Tony until G&C left. Two breaks of 29 and 20 minutes. Seems unlikely Casey & Cindy woulda had it out that morning unless George had taken Caylee outta the house for some reason...just noodlin' out loud....and getting awfully close to ping-in-ating this thread.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thanks for noticing that, Muzikman. That expains where she was when I pointed out a couple pages back that they couldn't have fought that afternoon because Cindy was gone.

I'm still trying to figure out what brought Casey south of home at 5am that morning though.

*snipped*

...just took us a little while to catch up to you, AE

FWIW, it did take Casey ~36mins to get from Tony's to G&C's, when it typically took ~23mins. So...an extra 13mins for something that included this slight out-of-the-way detour.

Since there was also a 13 minute phone conversation between Casey & Ricardo during this drive home (after leaving Tony's but, before appearing near the airport)...and the pings @ the airport are close together. I'd speculate that Casey considered going to Ricardo's after leaving Tony's...stopped the car after she turned west onto Colonial Dr. to call him, then, in the course of that conversation Casey decided to go home to G&C's instead. It was prolly easier just to drive down Semoran Blvd. @ that point than to u-turn on Colonial. From Semoran she had two options to cut east over to Hopespring Dr. (Hoffner or Lee Vista) either of which would've pinged the sector of the cell tower where she did.

BTW...the only reason we know 'bout this change in route is because Casey was near that airport cell tower when she received the text messages from Amy 'bout her running into a guardrail.

 

[ibyoungr]

Just for the record, the E-Pass records show them taking George's car to the beach on June 7 - Leaving around 10:37 AM, getting back around 3:42 PM.

Thank you so much!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Can anyone tell me about Cindy???

Why in her depo was she threatening & pushing for the lawyer to 'go there' about the fight. "I did not fight with my daughter, go there, lets go there..."

Something to that effect.

Why? Did she have the 'perfect' story set up about the fight? Why was it so important to 'go there'? :waitasec:

I listened again (at the end of pt. 5 , Official Docs) It is confusing because JM begins to question CA about the fight (that KC left the house on the 15th because of one) and he says KC went to SG to stay with friends and saw ZG. At that point, CA remembers she is armed with info that she read in the Discovery, page 45, that ZG is really CZG
(C. Za----- Gonzalee, no Fernandez). CA begins her questioning back to JM and tells him :waitasec: that the name signed on the SG card is not ZFG it is CZG so why are we here? JM asked CA how do you know that? CA said she read it in the Discovery, Pg. 45. JM said you're prepared (he's chagrined) and CA says you're darn right I'm prepared.

If this wasn't so serious, it would be hysterical. CA ain't rolling over that's for sure. She's probably thinking, since she knows what happened, that these people are way off base and think they're so smart and they don't know jack. If the name of the SG woman isn't the name KC wrote, then why are we here?

CA felt she had just won a round with a knockout and the question of the fight got lost in the sparring that took place around the legitimacy of ZG being an issue. But CA did say "no" there was no fight on the 15th.

JM clearly seemed sidelined by CA's call out about the name conflict. He was indignant that CA came prepared. He used that wrap-up tone that lawyers like to use and he lost me.

CA used the opportunity to point out the ZG name discrepancy, which has nothing to do with if she had a fight with KC, so she was feeling victorious.
I would like to know about the name discrepancy too since it has been reported that a ZFG had visited SG.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

*snipped*

...just took us a little while to catch up to you, AE

FWIW, it did take Casey ~36mins to get from Tony's to G&C's, when it typically took ~23mins. So...an extra 13mins for something that included this slight out-of-the-way detour.

Since there was also a 13 minute phone conversation between Casey & Ricardo during this drive home (after leaving Tony's but, before appearing near the airport)...and the pings @ the airport are close together. I'd speculate that Casey considered going to Ricardo's after leaving Tony's...stopped the car after she turned west onto Colonial Dr. to call him, then, in the course of that conversation Casey decided to go home to G&C's instead. It was prolly easier just to drive down Semoran Blvd. @ that point than to u-turn on Colonial. From Semoran she had two options to cut east over to Hopespring Dr. (Hoffner or Lee Vista) either of which would've pinged the sector of the cell tower where she did.

BTW...the only reason we know 'bout this change in route is because Casey was near that airport cell tower when she received the text messages from Amy 'bout her running into a guardrail.

No problem, Bond. If she were on Colonial, then took Semoran, wouldn't she likely take either Curry or Pershing across? Plus tower 28.4691667 -81.2916667 is closer to Hoffner than the one in question. It isn't likely that it was overloaded with calls at that time of day.

 

[kageykaren]

Your all amazing here! Thanks for taking on CA's interviews for those of us who cannot stomach listening to those interviews with LE for the at least 20th time. You have to clear the cobb webs out of your brain from the initial reading of the transcripts , so that there is a fresh way to look at the discovery. Thank you again for providing a better account of how to make since of all the ramblings in this case.

 

[PattyCake]

I think he struck a "nerve", & if he was referring specifically to June 15th, & CA knew it was another day,(maybe June9th), as they were all fixated on that date for awhile, she could now attack & nail him.

Also, with CA, it's a matter of semantics with her, & her interpretation & spin on anything thrown at her. She could see "argue" as a better word, as most likely commonplace. "I did not fight with my daughter" We had an argument & I choked her, but I did not fight with my daughter. Maybe??

And, never forget, "Lying is not a Crime" The World according to Cindy A.

Interesting interpretation!

& bold sentence by me...

I'm hoping she continues to believe that. Because in my world, I have zero compassion left for this person. Instead of grieving for her granddaughter, she has lied, hindered and covered up for the killer.

Cindy thinks lying isn't a crime? Then Cindy can spend some time in jail to rethink her position about that. :boohoo: Doesn't Cindy's euphemism drive you crazy??? I'm waiting to hear that the 'red flags' were 'very light pink'.

 

[nephers]

Interesting interpretation!

& bold sentence by me...

I'm hoping she continues to believe that. Because in my world, I have zero compassion left for this person. Instead of grieving for her granddaughter, she has lied, hindered and covered up for the killer.

Cindy thinks lying isn't a crime? Then Cindy can spend some time in jail to rethink her position about that. :boohoo: Doesn't Cindy's euphemism drive you crazy??? I'm waiting to hear that the 'red flags' were 'very light pink'.

It sure drives me crazy!

Cindy, let me break it down for you... No, lying is not a crime if you lie to your signficant other and say "I spent all day cleaning" when in reality I spent only 20 mins cleaning and the rest of the day on WS (which btw, I wouldn't do because I am very proud of how honest I am). Lying to hinder an investigation or under oath is a very serious crime but I'm sure you will find this out.

 

[Searchfortruth]

June 8th Casey pings at home all day. Cindy in the audio interview says she went up to Mt Dora to visit her dad. She went both the 8th and the 15th. The fight probably broke out after Cindy returned from Mt Dora on both Sundays...

chit rolls down hill.. SP gave the what for to Cindy... Cindy came home and gave it to Casey... Casey took it out on Caylee....

Do we know if Caylee was with Casey on the 8th when Cindy went to Mt. Dora ? I have looked for this info and can't find it...On the calendar, for June 8th, it says Casey and Caylee were at Ricardo's until mid morning (they spent the night there), so I would assume Caylee stayed with Casey for the day ??