Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[ibyoungr]

I totally believe Ibyoungr hit the nail on the head with head with her Casey/Cindy fight build-up theory. Phone cell records don't lie.

I can feel Cindy's frustration. When Casey wasn't "working" until 3 or 5 a.m.and deigned to come home, does ANYONE think Casey got off of her cell phone long enough to share any chores, run family errands or relieve Cindy of "mother" duties?

From watching Casey in her jail videos, I can only imagine how she responded to critiquing or chore requests from her mother. I believe the neighbor's description of Casey screaming swear words at her mom outside was accurate.

I've also seen videos of Cindy upset.


The situation and personalities were a volcano building

IMO

Thanks Jolynna... Just to think.. this was a snapshot in time. If someone tracked a month out of my life, I think they would get a "pretty good" idea what my methods of operation were. There would be some variances but over a period of 4-6 weeks I think we have enough information from the jailhouse calls, videos, tv interviews, police interviews to reasonable assume what the story was in that house.

I think poor little Caylee had a typical tantrum on the wrong day at the wrong time. Her mother had too many lies, to little money, no job and to much pressure from an overbearing mother and the volcano erupted.

 

[ibyoungr]

I couldn't bring myself to snip it - even for space - Devon. So well-written and developed...IMHO your even tone comes right through.

Even though it appears we're coming to different conclusions on the matter, I greatly appreciate your perspective and your ability to offer it so deftly.

Maybe I'm being myopic after having spent so much time on this topic of late. There's certainly much more that we don't know vs. what we do know w/ any certainty - I hafta acknowledge that in my thinking.

I'm still looking @ some things that appear to suggest a change, an escalation in the tension in the relationship:

• Casey taking Caylee away from G&C's overnight in June vs. the rate of this we've been told happened historically
• IIRC, Neigbor accounts give no indication that witnessing verbal exchanges between Casey & Cindy is status quo (acknowledge could be simply an omission)
• Cindy's characterization of Casey to Ryan (pre-missing/murder discovery) as a sociopath

...to counterpoint we could also consider there was an on-going baseline of tension 'tween the two...to add to things you've already listed...

• Account of Casey complaining of Cindy's interference @ Caylee's 2nd B-day party
• Money stolen from Shirley for Caylee's 2nd b-day party

Cindy's 7/3 Myspace epistle - given her frame of mind at the time - also seems to be a source of insight into how the two related. Frustrated over Casey keeping Caylee from her...Cindy goes to a venue that is the digitial equivalent to the town square and shouts...my daughter is diss'in me and here's some dirty laundry on her...."The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space."

So...agree we are simply speculating on the degree of the tensions during June vs. 'typical'.

I guess I've envisioned that Casey took great delight in tweaking Cindy by keeping Caylee from her. Perhaps I read to much into it. Casey can also be seen taking what appears to be considerable joy in seeing Cindy's anguish during their jailhouse visit (*guess I hafta allow Casey could just be happy to see them, eh?) The audio of Casey's call from jail ("What do you mean you don't know what my involvement is?!??") w/ Cindy playing it cool...all has an air of games(wo)manship to me 'bout it.I'm ramblin' w/o going anywhere in particular...guess just to say I appreciate the well-made point and would value your sharing your thoughts & POV further, Devon.

bolded by me above...
The minute I saw the jailhouse video is exactly what I saw. You are not reading anything in to it. Casey took great delight in one-upmanship not only with her mother but her friends as well.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Excellent observations, TH.

...if I may walk the fine line of being on-topic re: "fights"...

IMHO, it almost seems a natural extension to me....:crystal ball:...Casey will goto trial and JB will say,...[begin dream sequence]...

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...it was an accident. Caylee died in Cindy's care 6/15 in the swimming pool. A sad, sad tragedy. [long pause for effect] And my client - who is someone's daughter too [JB recycling that line 'cause he needs Casey-tears again ] - Casey, was coerced by her own mother, being choked and threatened physically by Cindy, into living a lie, into doing EVERYTHING possible to give the impression that nothing was wrong - hence the shopping and partying to which you've all borne witness to in pictures presented as evidence by the prosecution...that would have YOU believe that lie too. All the while living through the personal helll of losing her beloved Caylee, Casey was FORCED to buy time for Cindy who disposed of little Caylee's body herself.

[JB showing multiple clips of Cindy in depostions, altercations with protestors at the Hopespring home, etc.]

In a final cry for help, Casey began stealing from her best friend Amy in hopes she would be arrested and ultimately protected from Cindy so she could tell her story in the only place on earth Cindy couldn't harm her...the Orange County Jail.​

This will be the reason JB keeps referring to that it will all come out in the open @ trial.

What other scenario would explain Casey's smugness in her court appearances? Could Casey intend to directly strike the blow to Cindy that she indirectly took by murdering Caylee? - the FINAL punch of the "fight"? I can't think of another scenario that has a better chance of creating reasonable doubt for a jury and setting into motion a potential double-jeopardy situation...:waitasec:

Hence....for several months now...no visits to the jail and Cindy making every attempt to defend Casey in hopes that she can be seen as only racing to Casey's aid...not in threatening her.

Not new, I'm sure.

Works for me cept GA did all the dirty work.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

With respect, the thread is about a theory that tension was building between them, but since we do not know a) how many fights there actually were, b) who instigated them, c) what the subject matter was, d) when they took place or e) if they were resolved, then any such theory is necessarily based on various assumptions and speculation, as is the case with most theories. Since the information we have covers only a few months in any significant detail, we also have no way of telling whether there was any 'building' of tension during that period or not.

AD states in her interview that when she was with KC (either with or without Caylee), CA was always phoning KC asking where she was/when she was coming home etc., and since AD also states that their friendship had petered out some time in 2007 then clearly this alleged tension is nothing new. In fact much of the testimony from people who have known KC/CA for some time suggests that their relationship has always been volatile, and that the tension about Caylee over time has been as much about KC feeling aggrieved over CA's behaviour/actions as it was about CA's grievances.

It certainly does seem likely that CA was not happy about KC rolling home in the small hours on some occasions, and/or about being left with Caylee during the day on others, but we don't know what was actually said/done about it. It's possible that CA insisted that KC care for Caylee more, but it's equally possible that she didn't. Both CA and GA have stated that they loved having Caylee and doing things for/with her. CA has even said that she would persuade KC to let Caylee stay up past her bedtime so that she could have more time with her, so who knows if CA's alleged complaints about KC were serious and deep-seated enough to have made her actually crack down on KC, or if they were just transient grumbles, when she was feeling especially tired, cross or fed up generally.

As for the question of whether KC could have left Caylee with CA/GA and walked away, are you seriously suggesting that they would not have taken Caylee on? How do you reconcile that assumption with what we know about their feelings and behaviour towards Caylee, and the alleged threats of a custody battle for her? I am convinced that KC did KNOW that she could have walked away. CA and GA may not have been happy about it, they may have found it difficult financially, but IMO they would have kept Caylee for sure, and KC knew it, so I see nothing 'not true' about her statement to LE.

So, back to the fights - clearly there is scope to assume that things were not hunky dory in the A household during the weeks before Caylee's death, but IMO this was nothing new and so of itself not a very convincing catalyst for murder. I believe that if KC really wanted her freedom, all she had to do was pack a bag. If TL would not have taken her in, I'm willing to bet that RM could have been persuaded to, since all evidence suggests that he was a softie who was still chasing her even after she had announced her relationship with TL. If not him, I've no doubt she could have elicited help from others such as ID and JG who were both still standing on the sidelines. Nothing even remotely suggests to me that she would have killed Caylee either for her freedom or to 'stick it' to CA.

So does that mean you prefer the theory I've been examining over on the FBI/evidence thread that CA is responsible for Caylee's death better?

People have been saying that KC is a sociopath and that she would be capable of doing this horrible act to her child. I can't imagine it myself. Clearly, the communication between mother and daughter was elusive and tense. If KC did do it, I can grasp how things had esculated to the point of her taking drastic action.

Anything CA or GA say about anything no longer registers with me. There would have to be a backup source for me to believe anything they claim. They are not honest people and I think they are delusional.

I'm not sure where you're taking your info from but I'm certain CA had been cracking down on KC about childcare issues. I'm not so sure CA wanted to be a mommy to a two/three year old full time. That doesn't mean she did not love Caylee.

You bring up a good point though. If something had happened to KC, CA would have raised Caylee. But with the two women there, CA could/would not give her care as a free gift, not because of Caylee, but because she needed to fix KC.

Heck, I have several theories going on at the same time. I'll be the first one to say, I haven't a conclusive clue as to what actually happened. But I appreciate when peeps state the evidence when there is some to state.

 

[Devon]

So does that mean you prefer the theory I've been examining over on the FBI/evidence thread that CA is responsible for Caylee's death better?

People have been saying that KC is a sociopath and that she would be capable of doing this horrible act to her child. I can't imagine it myself. Clearly, the communication between mother and daughter was elusive and tense. If KC did do it, I can grasp how things had esculated to the point of her taking drastic action.

Anything CA or GA say about anything no longer registers with me. There would have to be a backup source for me to believe anything they claim. They are not honest people and I think they are delusional.

I'm not sure where you're taking your info from but I'm certain CA had been cracking down on KC about childcare issues. I'm not so sure CA wanted to be a mommy to a two/three year old full time. That doesn't mean she did not love Caylee.

You bring up a good point though. If something had happened to KC, CA would have raised Caylee. But with the two women there, CA could/would not give her care as a free gift, not because of Caylee, but because she needed to fix KC.

Heck, I have several theories going on at the same time. I'll be the first one to say, I haven't a conclusive clue as to what actually happened. But I appreciate when peeps state the evidence when there is some to state.

No, I don't think CA is responsible for Caylee's death - at least not directly. She may bear some responsibility (or feel that she does) in an indirect way, e.g. if Caylee died because of some negligence/lack of care and attention involving something left accessible to her, or she may bear some blame for KC's state of mind on June 16, particularly if there was a huge fight the day before.

By 'state of mind', I'm not suggesting that anything that might have happened on that day was driven by jealousy, spite, a desire for retribution or even for freedom, since that implies a deliberate malicious intent and I don't see evidence to support such an extreme act against Caylee. I'm referring more to a possibility that KC was feeling under pressure, tired, irritable, frustrated and distracted - a state of mind that may have caused her either to fail to give Caylee proper care and attention, or that may have caused her to loss control and fatally harm Caylee, either way with no actual intent to kill but with catastrophic results.

Since I believe that Caylee died in the home on the afternoon of June 16, I just don't see how someone who had malicious hatred and evil intent in their mind could calmly sit doing things on the computer and having long phone chats with friends (including conversation about wanting to move out with Caylee) within minutes of either deliberately snuffing her little life out or of planning to do so! I know there are people who are capable of such immense evil, but I just don't think KC is one of them.

 

[Intermezzo]

I just went back to reread one of Jesse's LE/FBI interviews
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0408/19129428.pdf Pages 2-3

Paraphrasing (Jesse retelling of a discussion with Lee of events told to him by Cindy)
That Cindy felt Casey ran off was because of the big fight between the 2 women about Casey not being home alot and not bring Caylee by (?).
The argument got heated and turned violent, cindy choking casey
That the fight occured at nightime.
Jesse did not know for sure if GA was home but from what Lee told him it was just Cindy and Casey
And that Casey was at that time in a recent hatred state towards her mother

IMO the (alleged) fight may have started over Casey's not being home alot but quickly escalated, heated words exchanged, other scenarios thrown in Casey's face like the stealing....YET Casey must have delivered a whopper of a line and really hit below the beltof to send Cindy over the edge and get physcial with her.

Cindy did say in her July 3 my space something to the effect that Casey unexpectedly left, or left without a word. Yet she covers that up by saying Casey and Caylee were bonding, Casey working, Casey on vacation blah blah blah..

I think I've lost track here LOL

 

[BondJamesBond]

I just went back to reread one of Jesse's LE/FBI interviews
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0408/19129428.pdf Pages 2-3

Paraphrasing (Jesse retelling of a discussion with Lee of events told to him by Cindy)

*snip*

From what you've read, Intermezzo, what is your opinion of the certainty of that being the true chain of the tale? IOW...Cindy being the source of Lee's information (vs. Casey). Is there room that Jesse assumed the events were told to Lee by Cindy? Or is he emphatic about it? Earlier IIRC, someone suggested that Lee may have become privy to the "choking" whilst he and Casey sat on the steps in the garage w/ the Pontiac 7/15. I haven't done the homework...so relying on the sleuthin' of others here.

It has always been easier for me to speculate that the Casey-the-victim-of-Cindy version of the story would've originated from Casey vs. Cindy.

 

[Intermezzo]

*snip*

From what you've read, Intermezzo, what is your opinion of the certainty of that being the true chain of the tale? IOW...Cindy being the source of Lee's information (vs. Casey). Is there room that Jesse assumed the events were told to Lee by Cindy? Or is he emphatic about it? Earlier IIRC, someone suggested that Lee may have become privy to the "choking" whilst he and Casey sat on the steps in the garage w/ the Pontiac 7/15. I haven't done the homework...so relying on the sleuthin' of others here.

It has always been easier for me to speculate that the Casey-the-victim-of-Cindy version of the story would've originated from Casey vs. Cindy.

I believe Lee may have been forthcoming with Jesse at first, but after Casey tells the A's she doesn't trust Jesse I think they changed their mind.

It's very likely that Lee and Cindy spoke in depth about why Casey left and was avoiding Cindy like the plague and had all these excuses ready why Cindy couldn't see or speak to Caylee.

Also this convo could have occured even before Cindy got a hold of Casey on July 15, perhaps around the time she sent Lee out to find Casey on July 3rd.
Lee already knew on July 15 that Casey had been gone from the home and that she was putting Cindy thru a rough time that past month. So he was already privy to the "choking" incident and may have brought it up while he sat with Casey.

Cindy's myspace said Casey left unexecptedly or without notice, I think the 2 women have verbally fought before and if Casey ever took off after a fight she managed to come back home but this time she did not.

 

[reeseeva]

No, I don't think CA is responsible for Caylee's death - at least not directly. She may bear some responsibility (or feel that she does) in an indirect way, e.g. if Caylee died because of some negligence/lack of care and attention involving something left accessible to her, or she may bear some blame for KC's state of mind on June 16, particularly if there was a huge fight the day before.

By 'state of mind', I'm not suggesting that anything that might have happened on that day was driven by jealousy, spite, a desire for retribution or even for freedom, since that implies a deliberate malicious intent and I don't see evidence to support such an extreme act against Caylee. I'm referring more to a possibility that KC was feeling under pressure, tired, irritable, frustrated and distracted - a state of mind that may have caused her either to fail to give Caylee proper care and attention, or that may have caused her to loss control and fatally harm Caylee, either way with no actual intent to kill but with catastrophic results.
Since I believe that Caylee died in the home on the afternoon of June 16, I just don't see how someone who had malicious hatred and evil intent in their mind could calmly sit doing things on the computer and having long phone chats with friends (including conversation about wanting to move out with Caylee) within minutes of either deliberately snuffing her little life out or of planning to do so! I know there are people who are capable of such immense evil, but I just don't think KC is one of them.

Bolded mime

Devon, ITA with the parts I bolded, and something else crossed my mind. Referring to Cindy's MS message on July 3rd, she states "Jealousy has taken her away", that's pretty definitive to me, as well as other aspects of the message, including the totality of care Caylee received was from Cindy. This reinforces the argument, that there were words to this effect, that Cindy was drawing on, from the only thing she could nail down, as to why she hadn't seen Caylee. I'm sure they danced their little repetoire of avoidance, in VM's & texts, of superflous day to day happenings, over the month, with KC brushing her off with lies as to Caylee's whereabouts, but never addressing the issue, which Cindy felt was the reason for not seeing Caylee, and purged herself in the Myspace message. Now, let's just say the fight was about all of KC's irresponsibilities concerning Caylee, & Caylee did die, with no intent, as a result of carless circumstances, or KC's state of mind from the night before, does this not make more sense, as to how she just continues on with her life as if nothing happened, rather than to have her mother's words, (a self-fulfilling prophecy) now become a reality?

She would never admit to her mother, she was right about her predictions. I also think KC knew she had lost her mother's attention when Caylee was born, and if KC really had serious issues, as evidenced by George's statement, and many others, they were never addressed, but rather excused, dismissed, and now she is watching her mother give Caylee the attention, she should have received to face her problems. (Cindy's statement to FBI in July, "All I want is Caylee, do you understand, she's all that matters, I don't care where KC's at, I just want Caylee") I somehow think Cindy knew she failed KC, and she was a failure, and saw a second chance with Caylee, and KC knew it.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

:clap::clap:I just wanted to say "Bravo, bravo" :clap: to each poster on this thread today. It has been wonderful watching the different theories, and differences of opinions, handled in such a mature, pleasant way by each of you.

I am very impressed that you all have been able to put yourselves into that "dark hole" of how KC thinks vs. how you yourselves think. I can't do it. I'm afraid I'm of the "burn her at the stake" frame of mind, but I do appreciate and admire those of you that can be impartial in your theorizing! :blowkiss:

Thanks again.

 

[Jolynna]

Firstly - love the Monty Python smilie ( a series definitely up there with the Best of British! :uk: ).

IMO KC made a lot of very strange comments to a lot of people, but there's no telling how much was fact and how much was fantasy. She seems to have created her own world, but obviously it all got a bit confusing because there's some statements of hers out there that conflict with each other. :waitasec:

About the disposal site - your guess is as good as mine as to why there, especially as she was no longer living in that area! We could 'speculate' that there was a psychological reason for it, or 'assume' :crazy: that she just dumped the body there because it was convenient. It's all multiple choice really!

About the increased incidences in June of keeping Caylee away from home though, I'm not sure that's accurate since RM has said in one of his interviews that when he and KC were an item, Caylee was there overnight regularly. Since this was during March/April/May (?), then if true it means that Caylee's over-nighters had actually decreased by June. KC was with TL then, and only stayed over at RM's with Caylee a couple of times more. I haven't seen any evidence that Caylee was kept away from CA during the day in June any more frequently than before either, except of course for the days after June 16, when we now know where Caylee really was!

In response to the part I bolded, you are right, RM DID say that Casey used to spend 4 to 5 nights of the week with him. HOWEVER...RM also said that usually Caylee stayed overnight too.

PRE-TONY and PRE the ANYTHING-BUT-CLOTHES-PARTY, Cindy thought Casey was working. When she was staying overnight with RM Casey didn't ask Cindy to babysit. After the catching Casey in the *Anthony-But-Clothes-Party* lie, Cindy would have been MORE suspicious of Casey's *work* nights.

So what happens after that?

Casey starts leaving Caylee with Cindy iuntil 3 a.m. week after week. On Cindy's birthday Casey DOESN'T answers her cell phone and has to be called over and over again before she heads for her parent's house. When Casey IS home the first two weeks of June she is ALWAYS on her cell phone.

Cindy doesn't know or care that Casey is a needy girl who thinks she has to be with the latest love-of-her-life 4 to 5 nights a week. Cindy just knows that Casey is probably really not working until 3 a.m. Cindy is remembering the pictures of Casey wearing nothing but a flag and picturing Casey doing THAT when Casey isn't home and not answering her phone. Cindy also resents that when Casey IS home, Casey is so busy on her cell phone that SHE (Cindy) has to take care of Caylee.

Casey is the same needy girl with Tony that she was with RM. BUT,Tony did not let Caylee spend the night.

Just when Casey REALLY needs a babysitter and to be texting and talking to Tony every second he is out of her sight, Cindy is nagging her to step up to the plate and be a responsible mother.

I think AFTER Tony, the worst of Casey's and Cindy's relationship really starting boiling over. There are a lot of expectations between mothers and daughters. When needs don't get met, sometimes hurts and resentments rise.

IMO

 

[Noddy]

Bolded mime

Devon, ITA with the parts I bolded, and something else crossed my mind. Referring to Cindy's MS message on July 3rd, she states "Jealousy has taken her away", that's pretty definitive to me, as well as other aspects of the message, including the totality of care Caylee received was from Cindy. This reinforces the argument, that there were words to this effect, that Cindy was drawing on, from the only thing she could nail down, as to why she hadn't seen Caylee. I'm sure they danced their little repetoire of avoidance, in VM's & texts, of superflous day to day happenings, over the month, with KC brushing her off with lies as to Caylee's whereabouts, but never addressing the issue, which Cindy felt was the reason for not seeing Caylee, and purged herself in the Myspace message. Now, let's just say the fight was about all of KC's irresponsibilities concerning Caylee, & Caylee did die, with no intent, as a result of carless circumstances, or KC's state of mind from the night before, does this not make more sense, as to how she just continues on with her life as if nothing happened, rather than to have her mother's words, (a self-fulfilling prophecy) now become a reality?

She would never admit to her mother, she was right about her predictions. I also think KC knew she had lost her mother's attention when Caylee was born, and if KC really had serious issues, as evidenced by George's statement, and many others, they were never addressed, but rather excused, dismissed, and now she is watching her mother give Caylee the attention, she should have received to face her problems. (Cindy's statement to FBI in July, "All I want is Caylee, do you understand, she's all that matters, I don't care where KC's at, I just want Caylee") I somehow think Cindy knew she failed KC, and she was a failure, and saw a second chance with Caylee, and KC knew it.

your sentence in 2nd paragraph bolded by me. I just wanted to mention two statements that have always bothered me.

Cindy said: "I know my daughter. I know my daughter's relationship with Caylee and I know that there's nothing in this world that could make me think Casey did anything to Caylee. There's never been any child neglect, child abuse or anything. This young lady loves her child more than I love Casey. I'll tell you that right now. And my love for Casey is stronger every day. My love for my granddaughter is stronger every day and I know Caylee is alive. There's a lot of people out there who have seen Caylee."

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/10/casey-anthony-a.html

and then Shirley P says: I just wonder if she hated her mom more than she loved Caylee."

http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/18973853/detail.html

Now when I add those two statements together; poor little Caylee didn't have much of a chance with the likes of CA and KC. Nothing gained by this post, just needed to post it.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

No, I don't think CA is responsible for Caylee's death - at least not directly. She may bear some responsibility (or feel that she does) in an indirect way, e.g. if Caylee died because of some negligence/lack of care and attention involving something left accessible to her, or she may bear some blame for KC's state of mind on June 16, particularly if there was a huge fight the day before.

By 'state of mind', I'm not suggesting that anything that might have happened on that day was driven by jealousy, spite, a desire for retribution or even for freedom, since that implies a deliberate malicious intent and I don't see evidence to support such an extreme act against Caylee. I'm referring more to a possibility that KC was feeling under pressure, tired, irritable, frustrated and distracted - a state of mind that may have caused her either to fail to give Caylee proper care and attention, or that may have caused her to loss control and fatally harm Caylee, either way with no actual intent to kill but with catastrophic results.

Since I believe that Caylee died in the home on the afternoon of June 16, I just don't see how someone who had malicious hatred and evil intent in their mind could calmly sit doing things on the computer and having long phone chats with friends (including conversation about wanting to move out with Caylee) within minutes of either deliberately snuffing her little life out or of planning to do so! I know there are people who are capable of such immense evil, but I just don't think KC is one of them.

Hi Devon, I understand where you're coming from. Don't you wish KC or someone else would tell the truth. It would be much easier and I bet make them feel better too. If the circumstances that caused Caylee's death were accidental, why doesn't KC tell the truth? Their (my belief is the family knows what happened) withholding the truth is why people won't cut KC any slack and are angry. Wish someone would tell the truth. raying:

 

[reeseeva]

your sentence in 2nd paragraph bolded by me. I just wanted to mention two statements that have always bothered me.

Cindy said: "I know my daughter. I know my daughter's relationship with Caylee and I know that there's nothing in this world that could make me think Casey did anything to Caylee. There's never been any child neglect, child abuse or anything. This young lady loves her child more than I love Casey. I'll tell you that right now. And my love for Casey is stronger every day. My love for my granddaughter is stronger every day and I know Caylee is alive. There's a lot of people out there who have seen Caylee."

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/10/casey-anthony-a.html

and then Shirley P says: I just wonder if she hated her mom more than she loved Caylee." :clap::clap:

http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/18973853/detail.html

Now when I add those two statements together; poor little Caylee didn't have much of a chance with the likes of CA and KC. Nothing gained by this post, just needed to post it.

:clap::clap:

Alot to gain when added to previous admissions, which portrays Cindy in the true light, not the one she now wants to paint!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Bolded mime

Devon, ITA with the parts I bolded, and something else crossed my mind. Referring to Cindy's MS message on July 3rd, she states "Jealousy has taken her away", that's pretty definitive to me, as well as other aspects of the message, including the totality of care Caylee received was from Cindy. This reinforces the argument, that there were words to this effect, that Cindy was drawing on, from the only thing she could nail down, as to why she hadn't seen Caylee. I'm sure they danced their little repetoire of avoidance, in VM's & texts, of superflous day to day happenings, over the month, with KC brushing her off with lies as to Caylee's whereabouts, but never addressing the issue, which Cindy felt was the reason for not seeing Caylee, and purged herself in the Myspace message. Now, let's just say the fight was about all of KC's irresponsibilities concerning Caylee, & Caylee did die, with no intent, as a result of carless circumstances, or KC's state of mind from the night before, does this not make more sense, as to how she just continues on with her life as if nothing happened, rather than to have her mother's words, (a self-fulfilling prophecy) now become a reality?

She would never admit to her mother, she was right about her predictions. I also think KC knew she had lost her mother's attention when Caylee was born, and if KC really had serious issues, as evidenced by George's statement, and many others, they were never addressed, but rather excused, dismissed, and now she is watching her mother give Caylee the attention, she should have received to face her problems. (Cindy's statement to FBI in July, "All I want is Caylee, do you understand, she's all that matters, I don't care where KC's at, I just want Caylee") I somehow think Cindy knew she failed KC, and she was a failure, and saw a second chance with Caylee, and KC knew it.

O/T Your post triggered the following thought: Could KC suffer from Asperger's Syndrome? It is a milder form of Autism. It affects people's emotions and behavior. Children can learn appropriate responses by mirroring and other excercises in therapy. The syndrome could contribute to a person being immature for their age.

Parents sometimes look past behaviors that are different because they wish they'd just go away. Today there is more info available on conditions such as this one than there was ten years ago. Food for thought.

 

[LCoastMom]

*snipped

Sooooo...I hafta rethink-my-oft'-rethought theories 'bout what happened 6/16PM. I agree as I believe Jolynna posted - esp. in the Blockbuster video and Fusian pics, Casey looks to be living the "beautiful life" - free from the one thing that Cindy used for almost 3 years to wield her form of control. That kinda 'relief' prolly came as the result of taking out her anger in murdering Caylee. My frame of reference just doesn't cover the range of what Casey was capable of...I guess I've just been searching for an answer that fit my own thinking...not Casey's. I made that mistake in the search for the body too. Saw a brief news story 'bout a man that threw an infant out of a car window yesterday...fighting with the mother he took off in the car w/ the baby in it...tossed the baby out the window to die on the highway :furious: I'm just not capable of understanding that...I can't even find words to describe my feelings...much less think from that POV. I gotta learn that lesson...

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BJB as much as it would make sleuthing easier, to be able to think like these animals. I hope your mind never takes you to that place, anyone who can truly wrap their head around something so heartless, so inhumane, must lose something precious in the trade off.

You are much too kind, too good of a human being for me to hope you ever get to that place. Sorry, but I hope you just have to keep putting these things together the hard way.

 

[Jolynna]

O/T Your post triggered the following thought: Could KC suffer from Asberger's Syndrome? It is a milder form of Autism. It affects people's emotions and behavior. Children can learn appropriate responses by mirroring and other excercises in therapy. The syndrome could contribute to a person being immature for their age.

Parents sometimes look past behaviors that are different because they wish they'd just go away. Today there is more info available on conditions such as this one than there was ten years ago. Food for thought.

My husband's best friend's youngest daughter has Asperger's Syndrome and attends a special school in CA.

I also have a nephew with antisocial personality disorder.

My nephew, like Casey, is articulate and well spoken. He is popular and witty. People gravitate to him. Asperger's Syndrome is characterized by varying degrees of impairment in communication skills and social interaction.

I am very sure Casey does not have Asperger's Syndrome.

http://www.nursinglink.com/training/articles/5645

 

[LCoastMom]

Now, let's just say the fight was about all of KC's irresponsibilities concerning Caylee, & Caylee did die, with no intent, as a result of carless circumstances, or KC's state of mind from the night before, does this not make more sense, as to how she just continues on with her life as if nothing happened, rather than to have her mother's words, (a self-fulfilling prophecy) now become a reality?

She would never admit to her mother, she was right about her predictions. I also think KC knew she had lost her mother's attention when Caylee was born, and if KC really had serious issues, as evidenced by George's statement, and many others, they were never addressed, but rather excused, dismissed, and now she is watching her mother give Caylee the attention, she should have received to face her problems. (Cindy's statement to FBI in July, "All I want is Caylee, do you understand, she's all that matters, I don't care where KC's at, I just want Caylee") I somehow think Cindy knew she failed KC, and she was a failure, and saw a second chance with Caylee, and KC knew it.

Respectfully snipped.

I think it was really easy for Cindy to say "I don't care where KC's at, I just want Caylee" when she knew where KC was for the first time in a month and she was in protective custody, not going anywhere!

When we see Cindy's behavior for the last 5 mos since Caylee was found and even the 5 mos before that. Cindy sure was quick to toss Caylee aside in favor of protecting KC once Cindy realized LE was looking at her sideways. Sometimes, I almost feel like Cindy would even blame Caylee for this, if it would save her precious KC.

The way KC tried to guilt everyone from prison for being worried about Caylee, really pizzed me off.

IDK, if it were an accident and KC had called 911 and actually tried to save Caylee, wouldn't that be everything KC needed to prove Cindy wrong? I mean as horrible as it is accidents really do happen and sometimes people die because of them. All that can be asked of a witness to tragedy is they act responsibly, they do the "right thing"; consequences be damned at that point.

For example, say Caylee ate some of C or G's RX drugs, "Mom I put her to bed, (at home) I thought she was asleep, I was in the bathroom, (I think it was the chicken casserole you made, really made me sick, mom) she must have snuck out and got into your med cabinet, (where you left your drugs, mom) but mom I called 911, I gave her CPR just like the class you made me take showed..."

How could anyone not pity the young mother who went to get their child up from a nap and found the child dead!? (From Cindy's med cabinet no less) This would not have even been considered careless on KC's part and certainly no intent! Truly a tragic accident....

 

[SweetSilverBird]

About the disposal site - your guess is as good as mine as to why there, especially as she was no longer living in that area! We could 'speculate' that there was a psychological reason for it, or 'assume' :crazy: that she just dumped the body there because it was convenient. It's all multiple choice really!

I believe that since KC was now practically living with Tony, she buried Caylee near her parents house in a sort of keeping all that she jettisoned 'together'.

Left to herself, she would have had them all in one spot to leave completely, or visit if she deigned to.

 

[BondJamesBond]

respectfully snipped

BJB as much as it would make sleuthing easier, to be able to think like these animals. I hope your mind never takes you to that place, anyone who can truly wrap their head around something so heartless, so inhumane, must lose something precious in the trade off.

You are much too kind, too good of a human being for me to hope you ever get to that place. Sorry, but I hope you just have to keep putting these things together the hard way.

Thanks MMB. I truly appreciate that.

The whole thing just the makes me appreciate the Yuri's, the Sgt. Allen's, TES, the social & medical professionals, etc. etc. that deal w/ this element on a daily basis that much more. They are definitely angels among us.

I believe that since KC was now practically living with Tony, she buried Caylee near her parents house in a sort of keeping all that she jettisoned 'together'.

Left to herself, she would have had them all in one spot to leave completely, or visit if she deigned to.

Welcome, SSB. I think I see what you mean...kinda like puttin' all her dirty laundry in one place, eh?