Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

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Snipped from BondJamesBond post...

@ 10:06PM Casey ended the cell inactivity when she received a text from Tony by placing a call to Tony and talking w/ him for 10minutes (IMHO, this also would seem to be indicative of the fight having just taken place)

@ 10:25PM the heavy texting between Casey and Tony resumed for the balance of the night...with a 40minute break @ 11PM. "(Inactivity Period II)

@ 11:44PM Casey called Tony for an 80-minute marathon phone call.
Click to expand...


I have not read this entire thread...no time with moving, and all. But I wanted to suggest a possibility.

I have always felt Casey left that night...I thought maybe Casey was texting Tony because Caylee was noisy, crying...and the 40 min gap was spent trying to calm her and when that failed, wrapping her and putting her in the trunk to silence her...so, she could then TALK to Tony.

Might be way off...might be solid evidence, other than the A's words, to disprove this idea...and it may have already been raised...lol...I'm too busy and tired to check it out but thought I'd leave it here, share, and let ya'll let me know. peace...p
 
...just a quick follow-up from the discussion that went OT on the "Pontiac" thread.

My :twocents: (...ok...maybe a $1 :rolleyes:) given ad nauseum earlier...so I'll limit myself to one cent now :bang:.

IMHO, the dynamics of Cindy's vacation and Casey's taking full advantage of Cindy-care to disappear for Tony-time were direct contributors to the tension building 'twixt Casey & Cindy that ended up in the "fight" we've heard about (noting there have been accounts of up to 3 arguments/fights between Casey & Cindy pre-6/16 given to-date in the case). While Caylee's demise may or may not have been a direct result of one of these episodes...the outbursts do give us a picture of the kind of anger that was apparently brewing. One might go as far as to say it would compel "spiteful" behavior, eh?

Spite - Malicious ill will prompting an urge to hurt or humiliate.
 
BondJamesBond said:
...just a quick follow-up from the discussion that went OT on the "Pontiac" thread.

My :twocents: (...ok...maybe a $1 :rolleyes:) given ad nauseum earlier...so I'll limit myself to one cent now :bang:.

IMHO, the dynamics of Cindy's vacation and Casey's taking full advantage of Cindy-care to disappear for Tony-time were direct contributors to the tension building 'twixt Casey & Cindy that ended up in the "fight" we've heard about (noting there have been accounts of up to 3 arguments/fights between Casey & Cindy pre-6/16 given to-date in the case). While Caylee's demise may or may not have been a direct result of one of these episodes...the outbursts do give us a picture of the kind of anger that was apparently brewing. One might go as far as to say it would compel "spiteful" behavior, eh?

Spite - Malicious ill will prompting an urge to hurt or humiliate.
Click to expand...

I also can't help but wonder if the fight(s) had something to do with Casey's apparent plans to have the house "to herself" after Friday, June 13. IIRC, she was giving TonE this date as late as June 10.
 
BondJamesBond said:
While Caylee's demise may or may not have been a direct result of one of these episodes...the outbursts do give us a picture of the kind of anger that was apparently brewing.
Click to expand...

Snipped for space.

It was brewing since the day Caylee was born. I had been compiling a list for my own research, and though the quotes aren't entirely in context, it still shows the animosity, the jealousy, the struggle, whatever you'd like to call it, between KC, CA and unfortunately Caylee.


+Cindy was the first person to hold Caylee
George Anthony: They turned around and they handed Caylee to my wife.
Scott Brolin: Right
George Anthony: My daughter said, well my gosh you get a chance to hold her before I do. She made that to my wife. And she's thrown it up to my wife a few different times. I'm not sure if my wife told you about that or not. But that's... that's been sort of a sore thing about..
Scott Brolin: Between Casey and your wife?
George Anthony. Right. And sometimes even my granddaughter she'd also run to my wife before she'd even run to my daughter. We're there every single day you know.

Lee Anthony: There had to be. Uh, there has to be. Whether it's an intentional or what, I know my mother has said on numerous occasions to me and even to Yuri and the other guys that she feels as if Casey has some sort of resentment to my mother. That my mother has been the provider for Caylee, even to the extent that my mother was the first person to hold Caylee when she came out of the womb. So my mom is convinced that my sister holds some kind of resentment to her.

+Threats to take Custody
Shirley Plesea: Well (inaudible) I don't know what she did with Caylee. Whether she was at a friend's house or what. But she knows Cindy would have took that child and kept her and she could have run her legs off if she wanted to.
Yuri Melich: Did they make any suggestions on how uh, did they ever suggest to Cindy about taking custody of Caylee?
Shirley Plesea: Oh, Cindy had told me a couple of times that one of these times she was going to get it. And she told Casey I think pretty close to the time when she ran off I wouldn't be surprised.

Michelle Murphy: I don't know how often it came up with, between Cindy and Casey. I don't, that I just don't know. But I know that it had been mentioned by Lee to me a few times, that George had mentioned it to me at the prayer vigil you know saying like oh you know, kinda like a what if. You know if we had only gotten custody, you know if we had only just done it instead of talking about it you know, but um no, as far, the custody thing of them taking custody of Caylee had been an ongoing, I think, subject for, if I had to guess it would probably be for most of Caylee's life but from what I know, just from where I sort of started coming around it was like right before she turned 2.

Shirley Plesea: Caylee was her life. And I'll tell you, she would have even let Casey live with her. But she would have guardianship of, she would have been in charge of Caylee. But she was a good enough mom ... to Casey, regardless of what she did there, that she would have made a home there for her too. But she wanted to be in charge of Caylee.


Cindy threatening custody during the first 911 call, while the call was being transferred to the OCSO
Cindy Anthony: Cause my next thing will be (inaudible) child (inaudible) thing and we'll have a court order to get her. If that's what you want to play then we'll do it, and you'll never ---
Casey Anthony: That's not the way I want to do it.
Cindy Anthony: Well then you have ---
Casey Anthony: Just give me one more day
Cindy Anthony: No, I'm not giving you another day. I've given you a month.


So basically in a nutshell... Casey didn't want Caylee, but she didn't want Cindy to have her either... and now we're all following a case about a young mother who dumped her innocent child like trash, with duct tape around her little face. Sigh.

ETA: I do have more quotes to add to this but haven't gone thru the transcripts yet. Maybe since I've been home sick I can get them done soon.
 
Reagan said:
So basically in a nutshell... Casey didn't want Caylee, but she didn't want Cindy to have her either... and now we're all following a case about a young mother who dumped her innocent child like trash, with duct tape around her little face. Sigh.

ETA: I do have more quotes to add to this but haven't gone thru the transcripts yet. Maybe since I've been home sick I can get them done soon.
Click to expand...
*snipped*

Get well soon, Reagan. :)

Excellent summary of the things we've read about the Cindy:Casey relationship.

If you don't already have it...I think Shirley said it best when she stated something to the effect...that Casey hated her mother more than she loved Caylee. Not a direct quote. But a helluvan elegant summary if you ask me.
 
AZlawyer said:
I also can't help but wonder if the fight(s) had something to do with Casey's apparent plans to have the house "to herself" after Friday, June 13. IIRC, she was giving TonE this date as late as June 10.
Click to expand...

AZ, I could swear that I remember CA confirming to LE that KC would be getting the house in one interview-I don't know if it's because it was true, or if CA was trying to quickly cover KC's butt, so she lied to LE and slipped that out there....But she denied it, then quickly said oh yeah, they had thought about it, or might sign it over to KC, then she lets LE talk over her and change the subject.

Have to find that audio, it's gonna be a doozy!!
 
BondJamesBond said:
*snipped*

Get well soon, Reagan. :)

Excellent summary of the things we've read about the Cindy:Casey relationship.

If you don't already have it...I think Shirley said it best when she stated something to the effect...that Casey hated her mother more than she loved Caylee. Not a direct quote. But a helluvan elegant summary if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it, but that quote was another one I had on hand. I think SP summed it up quite well, indeed.

Thanks for the get wells. I shall be back *laughs evilly but not really*

JustJayla: I have been pouring through CAs interviews (perhaps that's why I'm sick? kidding, I think) Godspeed. Doozy is putting it lightly.
 
The fight that the A's keep insisting didn't happen on the 15th of June......will the court let in JG's testimony that LA told him that it got so bad that CA had her hands around KC's throat or will that be considered "hearsay" as even LA supposedly wasn't there?

And for that matter, let's go one step farther and say a miracle happens and LA decides to tell the truth about what he was told happened on the evening of June 15th---would even that be considered hearsay and let in by the court, since LA himself was not present? Any lawyers that can answer? TY-TY-TY in advance if so.

Also, you know how CA goes on and on every chance she gets about there being "no motive"? Well, her own words to KC on July 3rd about "My Caylee is Missing" clearly, IMO at least, states the motive. CA writes: "Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all the love and support given to her"--end quote. It is very clear that CA thinks that jealousy is the reason Caylee was taken from the A home. But the comment that disturbs me most is --"Who is now watching out for the little angel?"--end quote. CA thought that someone needed to be watching over Caylee while in KC's care. Frightening---she knows her daughter---she knows, even if it is not real in her conscious mind yet, she knows unconsciously that KC has a vein of wickedness inside her, and is willing and has in the past, acted on it. These are my opinions anyway.

**(Yes, I know thankful is spelled wrong but that is how CA wrote it so I wanted to directly quote her. And no, it's not to make fun of her error. Wouldn't do that as I am admittedly the world's worst speller.)

MOO
 
Just Jayla said:
AZ, I could swear that I remember CA confirming to LE that KC would be getting the house in one interview-I don't know if it's because it was true, or if CA was trying to quickly cover KC's butt, so she lied to LE and slipped that out there....But she denied it, then quickly said oh yeah, they had thought about it, or might sign it over to KC, then she lets LE talk over her and change the subject.

Have to find that audio, it's gonna be a doozy!!
Click to expand...

I know there was a mention in one of SP (CA's mom)'s emails that even if CA sold the house and got an apartment George would still get half the money in a divorce, or something similar...which bolsters Casey's story to her friends that her mom and dad were considering getting a divorce and moving out of the house. I think CA may have said something in an interview like "the only time we even talked about it..." blah blah blah. IMHO Cindy said things to Casey about possibilities, Casey spun those possibilities into an ideal fantasy of the perfect life, Cindy said "never mind," and Casey got PO'd.
 
doogiesgirl said:
The fight that the A's keep insisting didn't happen on the 15th of June......will the court let in JG's testimony that LA told him that it got so bad that CA had her hands around KC's throat or will that be considered "hearsay" as even LA supposedly wasn't there?

And for that matter, let's go one step farther and say a miracle happens and LA decides to tell the truth about what he was told happened on the evening of June 15th---would even that be considered hearsay and let in by the court, since LA himself was not present? Any lawyers that can answer? TY-TY-TY in advance if so.

Also, you know how CA goes on and on every chance she gets about there being "no motive"? Well, her own words to KC on July 3rd about "My Caylee is Missing" clearly, IMO at least, states the motive. CA writes: "Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all the love and support given to her"--end quote. It is very clear that CA thinks that jealousy is the reason Caylee was taken from the A home. But the comment that disturbs me most is --"Who is now watching out for the little angel?"--end quote. CA thought that someone needed to be watching over Caylee while in KC's care. Frightening---she knows her daughter---she knows, even if it is not real in her conscious mind yet, she knows unconsciously that KC has a vein of wickedness inside her, and is willing and has in the past, acted on it. These are my opinions anyway.

**(Yes, I know thankful is spelled wrong but that is how CA wrote it so I wanted to directly quote her. And no, it's not to make fun of her error. Wouldn't do that as I am admittedly the world's worst speller.)

MOO
Click to expand...

JG said that Lee said that Cindy said there was a big fight...so any testimony from JG or Lee that a fight occurred would be hearsay. BUT the SA could ask Cindy on the stand if there was a fight, and if she denied it they could say, "didn't you tell Lee there was a fight?", and if she denied THAT they could call Lee to the stand to testify to Cindy's "prior inconsistent statement"--i.e., that there was a fight. Hearsay problem resolved. :)

And if Lee denied that Cindy ever said that, they could say, "But, Lee, didn't you tell JG that Cindy said that?" and if he denied THAT they could call JG to testify about Lee "prior inconsistent statement"--i.e., that Cindy told him there was a fight...
 
AZlawyer said:
JG said that Lee said that Cindy said there was a big fight...so any testimony from JG or Lee that a fight occurred would be hearsay. BUT the SA could ask Cindy on the stand if there was a fight, and if she denied it they could say, "didn't you tell Lee there was a fight?", and if she denied THAT they could call Lee to the stand to testify to Cindy's "prior inconsistent statement"--i.e., that there was a fight. Hearsay problem resolved. :)

And if Lee denied that Cindy ever said that, they could say, "But, Lee, didn't you tell JG that Cindy said that?" and if he denied THAT they could call JG to testify about Lee "prior inconsistent statement"--i.e., that Cindy told him there was a fight...
Click to expand...

Thank you VERY MUCH for that synopsis AZ! I've been wondering how that would be handled. Good to know that it can be done, and that there is at least one person in that chain that will tell the truth.
 
AZlawyer said:
I know there was a mention in one of SP (CA's mom)'s emails that even if CA sold the house and got an apartment George would still get half the money in a divorce, or something similar...which bolsters Casey's story to her friends that her mom and dad were considering getting a divorce and moving out of the house. I think CA may have said something in an interview like "the only time we even talked about it..." blah blah blah. IMHO Cindy said things to Casey about possibilities, Casey spun those possibilities into an ideal fantasy of the perfect life, Cindy said "never mind," and Casey got PO'd.
Click to expand...

FWIW, recall that Cindy (IIRC) filed for divorce in '05. So...that - more than just talkin' about it - the paperwork was put in motion tells me that G&C have been down the who'd-get-what path. Seems plausible that a threat to re-file could have reared its head post-'05 if/when G&C argued. Which could've also resulted in Cindy venting to Casey...and Casey turning it into her own fantasy to use at-will.

I don't recall hearing much 'bout what compelled George to transition jobs during this critical period (June-July '08) and when he started his search in earnest. :waitasec: Pure, adulterated speculation that would tie things together (regarding subject of this thread) would be if Cindy was demanding George find a better paying job ~May '08, "or else I'll file again!". That would've put a divorce-and-Casey-gets-the-house fantasy back on the front burner and in focus for Casey May-June.

The timing of a speculated, renewed divorce threat would also be ramping up to a peak @ the time of Cindy's was-supposed-to-be-a-vacation-but-ended-up-not-being-one ...and didn't even get to spend any length of time @ the beach either...and Casey bailed on my 50th b-day...d@mnbit.

IIRC, the first evidence we have of Casey-gets-a-house fantasy is in text 5/13 to Amy. There are at least 2 other threads focused on explaining the house fantasy and the transition from "a" house to "the" G&C's house - so no need to go into further detail on this post/thread.

Curious if the, "Don't worry...I haven't told them anything." comment from Casey when arrested was in reference to G&C re-filing for divorce abrewin'. :waitasec:

I'm pretty sure we've tossed around the notion that Cindy-reneged-on-divorcing-George-&-broke-the-news-to-Casey-6/15, resulting in spoiling Casey's oh-so-close fantasy, resulting in a 6/15PM "fight" ~10PM.
 
That makes so much sense :) GA in one of the prison videos apologizing for how things were and how he wanted to spend more time with KC and how things were gonna change and be better...Also, might explain some of CA's behavior ,,she feels really guilty among may things , but she may have dragged KC (played sides) into the whole divorce mess, promised the house etc..yeah that sounds about right for CA.
 
IIRC, SP or Rick mentioned in one of their emails that, due to the fact that, if divorced, CA would have to split the assets, it had occurred to her to put the house into either LA or KC's name. After that, we all speculated that the mention of it could have helped KC plan out (and tell people) that her parents were indeed fighting, getting a divorce, and the house would be hers shortly.

If CA did not tell her the deal was off, KC may have still been planning, which is why she had Amy thinking she'd be there soon. Or, if CA did change her mind, it may have also been the reason for all those "household weapons" of mass destruction searching.

CA was certainly amazed that AH had been told they were getting divorced and CA had decided to "move to an apartment" during their little car ride over to nab KC. Which may or may not indicate a renewal of problems between CA and GA. I would think that the focus was on KC, since CA had admitted to co-workers that KC was yelling at her dad even more than she herself did. And at least he was bringing in a paycheck, which had not always been the case.

I am hoping that CA actually did admit the fight to either GA or LA. If the only place that came from is KC herself - in telling both LA and JG, then it has, as does all of her statements, the credibility of Wall Street asking for another bailout. CA could take the stand and still deny it ever happened if she did not corroborate KC's story to the males in the family. And even if it went down that way, we may never know. This family seems to think that, unless it's caught on tape, it didn't happen. And even then they'd shout fraud and conspiracy. They may function at a higher level than KC, but it's the same toxic soup they all lived in and dished out to each other.
 
BondJamesBond said:
I don't recall hearing much 'bout what compelled George to transition jobs during this critical period (June-July '08) and when he started his search in earnest. :waitasec: Pure, adulterated speculation that would tie things together (regarding subject of this thread) would be if Cindy was demanding George find a better paying job ~May '08, "or else I'll file again!". That would've put a divorce-and-Casey-gets-the-house fantasy back on the front burner and in focus for Casey May-June.
Click to expand...

Snipped and BBM.

According to the computer internet history, visits to job bank websites started at the end of January, 2008. I am confident they were visits conducted by George. The history taken was for the "Casey" account used by George and Cindy. Casey used the "owner" account. Furthermore, they are typically bracketed by visits to websites for autos, tools, and ... ahem ... escort services. I don't think that was Cindy.

Job bank visits really picked up in March.

As an interesting aside, there are lots of visits in February to the Lexus of Orlando website, as well as workatlexus.com. Just FYI.
 
JWG said:
Furthermore, they are typically bracketed by visits to websites for autos, tools, and ... ahem ... escort services. I don't think that was Cindy.
Click to expand...
*snipped*

...not that there's anything wrong w/ that :whistle: ;)

Job bank visits really picked up in March.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm...:waitasec:

As an interesting aside, there are lots of visits in February to the Lexus of Orlando website, as well as workatlexus.com. Just FYI.
Click to expand...
OK...NOW you're just taunting me :snooty:
 
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