Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 3

[elfie]

Keep in mind who we are talking about here. ICA loved money too GOOD to waste it on an abortion. After all, how was she going to pay her cell phone bill if she paid for the abortion? ICA DID want to let he friend adopt the baby and that's when CA put her foot down. What was the man's name who ICA borrowed the shovel from? He witnessed those fights also IIRC.

I think it was Brian Burner. I remember something about them witnessing it too.

 

[chefmom]

I have always felt that the fact that CA denied the fight ever happened was a big red flag. The smell became pizza and the fight never happened. Riiiiiight! If CA is so adamant that there was no fight, then I feel certain that not only WAS there a fight, but a fight of biblical proportions. A fight that created a situation where KC decided to kill Caylee and leave that home. IMO, CA knows that the fight was the catalyst to this tragedy or else she wouldn't deny it. All parents and children have fights. Its not that unusual, and it doesn't mean you are a bad parent or that you don't love your child. It just means you had an argument with your child, perhaps even a loud one, because you didn't see eye to eye on something. Plain and simple. I just don't think anything can be plain and simple with the A's. CA will probably never admit to this fight because it doesn't fit the image she wants portrayed of her family. Moo.

 

[Leila]

What time was the big fight w/cindy? As I recall ICA was on the phone constantly w/tony. There may have been a break around 7:30pm. I will try to check my old records. I was careful w/notes at the beginning.

George worked the 3:00pm - 11:00pm shift that day, and wasn't present when the fight occurred.

 

[Solace]

George worked the 3:00pm - 11:00pm shift that day, and wasn't present when the fight occurred.

It is interesting that she never told Tony about the fight, but then again, it goes to why not - if she were being accused of stealing money, she would not want Tony to know that and she was on the phone with him for a long time in the early morning of July 16th.

 

[Quiche]

So, where was Caylee during this fight? In Cindy's arms, then in KC's arms, then crying between them? Imo, children don't resolve this kind of tension without a lot of reassurance, I bet Caylee was on a tear herself. Poor baby.

mo

 

[LambChop]

She may have not wanted the baby but didn't have money or means to do anything about it. Casey was 18, right? I'm not 100% sure about that, but if she was, then that would mean that CA's insurance at work would no longer allow CA to carry Casey. You know ICA, she probably thought she could fool her parents long enough to give birth and give the child up for adoption. By all accounts, she only had to fool them for a couple of more months.

She could have found out about her own pregnancy too late to terminate it.

Kiomarie was right on the money when she told LE that she thought they ought to the check the woods at the back of the school. Unless she and ICA had a bad falling out, she wouldn't have any reason to lie to LE about the conversation she said she had with ICA about adopting Caylee.

So far, nothing has been released that would discredit Kiomarie, on the other hand, you could fill up a blank copy of 'War and Peace' with ICA's lies.

And...to keep it on topic..the struggle of CA trying to keep ICA focused on being a mother instead of growing up to be a shot girl at Fusion caused friction, and that in turn kept them going at each other over Caylee.

I believe KC was still on her mother's insurance. This may be why KC told friends she was in college because you can keep your child on your insurance if they are attending school up to the age of 25 under some policies. From appearances CA has a great insurance package. jmo

 

[Leila]

I have always felt that the fact that CA denied the fight ever happened was a big red flag. The smell became pizza and the fight never happened. Riiiiiight! If CA is so adamant that there was no fight, then I feel certain that not only WAS there a fight, but a fight of biblical proportions. A fight that created a situation where KC decided to kill Caylee and leave that home. IMO, CA knows that the fight was the catalyst to this tragedy or else she wouldn't deny it. All parents and children have fights. Its not that unusual, and it doesn't mean you are a bad parent or that you don't love your child. It just means you had an argument with your child, perhaps even a loud one, because you didn't see eye to eye on something. Plain and simple. I just don't think anything can be plain and simple with the A's. CA will probably never admit to this fight because it doesn't fit the image she wants portrayed of her family. Moo.

ITA! I've always felt that this fight was the catalyst for Caylee's murder!

I think Casey's computer searches for chloroform and neck-breaking were the beginning of a plan. She planned on killing Caylee and perhaps her parents at some point in the future. It remained in the back of her mind, but she was too busy with her friends to fully research and plan it further.

The fight on June 15th was the straw that broke the camel's back and the catalyst for everything that happened after that fateful fight. Casey killed Caylee to punish her mother more than anything, and to have her freedom.

If you read Cindy's MySpace entry of July 3, 2008 with this fight in mind, I think Cindy is (in a backwards sort of way) apologizing for that fight and putting forth her reasoning for why she feels the ways she does. She's trying to make the point that all she's done is taken care of both Casey and Caylee, has been financially responsible for them both, and in return she wants Casey to be grateful and respect her authority/control as she knows best.

 

[Solace]

I believe KC was still on her mother's insurance. This may be why KC told friends she was in college because you can keep your child on your insurance if they are attending school up to the age of 25 under some policies. From appearances CA has a great insurance package. jmo

She also tells Appie Wells that she has two years at Valencia or is going to Valencia. The girl just lies to impress.

She also needs proof that she is going to College in order to get the insurance. Her word is not good enough.

 

[Leila]

Let's not forget the hole that was dug in the backyard near the foundation of the house that the A's had to have seen. 12 inches long and 5 inches deep. That certainly would not been missed by them while they were doing their yardwork. jmo

There was also a shrub moved............a camellia if I remember correctly. If I remember correctly, GA and CA said they moved the plant so they could move a plastic box that contain pool items away from the side of the pool and put the box where the plant had been. There was some suspicion about this, as that was their excuse for the soil being disturbed in the backyard.

And, over the 4th of July weekend in 2008, GA and CA put pavers in one area of the backyard.

 

[Apex-mom]

ITA! I've always felt that this fight was the catalyst for Caylee's murder!

I think Casey's computer searches for chloroform and neck-breaking were the beginning of a plan. She planned on killing Caylee and perhaps her parents at some point in the future. It remained in the back of her mind, but she was too busy with her friends to fully research and plan it further.

The fight on June 15th was the straw that broke the camel's back and the catalyst for everything that happened after that fateful fight. Casey killed Caylee to punish her mother more than anything, and to have her freedom.If you read Cindy's MySpace entry of July 3, 2008 with this fight in mind, I think Cindy is (in a backwards sort of way) apologizing for that fight and putting forth her reasoning for why she feels the ways she does. She's trying to make the point that all she's done is taken care of both Casey and Caylee, has been financially responsible for them both, and in return she wants Casey to be grateful and respect her authority/control as she knows best.

bbm.... I agree TOTALLY with this as to her true motivation/feelings. The flight was the last straw that gave her the rage she needed to do the job, but I bet she had fantasized about it in order to be 'free' of her 'motherhood duties' to the 'snothead' for some time.

 

[katydid23]

I have always felt that the fact that CA denied the fight ever happened was a big red flag. The smell became pizza and the fight never happened. Riiiiiight! If CA is so adamant that there was no fight, then I feel certain that not only WAS there a fight, but a fight of biblical proportions. A fight that created a situation where KC decided to kill Caylee and leave that home. IMO, CA knows that the fight was the catalyst to this tragedy or else she wouldn't deny it. All parents and children have fights. Its not that unusual, and it doesn't mean you are a bad parent or that you don't love your child. It just means you had an argument with your child, perhaps even a loud one, because you didn't see eye to eye on something. Plain and simple. I just don't think anything can be plain and simple with the A's. CA will probably never admit to this fight because it doesn't fit the image she wants portrayed of her family. Moo.

How could there NOT be a fight. Cindy was confronted by her mother that afternoon about Casey stealing from them again. So Cindy comes back home, and sees Casey there. And she is trying to say there was NO FIGHT?
Does that mean she never said anything to her daughter about stealing money for the second time from their hospice fund? Seriously?

Are we supposed to believe that Cindy just let that go? How humiliating must that have been to beg your mother not to report your thieving daughter to the police, on Father's Day no less? And Cindy claims there was NO fight?

I can assure you there would have been a doozy of a fight at my house. And you can bet my neighbors would have heard it too. :slap::slap::slap:

 

[Casey Serin]

How could there NOT be a fight. Cindy was confronted by her mother that afternoon about Casey stealing from them again. So Cindy comes back home, and sees Casey there. And she is trying to say there was NO FIGHT?
Does that mean she never said anything to her daughter about stealing money for the second time from their hospice fund? Seriously?

Are we supposed to believe that Cindy just let that go? How humiliating must that have been to beg your mother not to report your thieving daughter to the police, on Father's Day no less? And Cindy claims there was NO fight?

I can assure you there would have been a doozy of a fight at my house. And you can bet my neighbors would have heard it too. :slap::slap::slap:

I always thought Cindy's resistance and fury at Yuri visiting her parents wasnt because they were elderly but because of what they would say

 

[allycat1208]

I always thought Cindy's resistance and fury at Yuri visiting her parents wasnt because they were elderly but because of what they would say

I agree with you there...I believe Cindy's mom said Cindy had to dip into her 401k and was out maybe 45k because of Casey. Cindy's mom didn't seem like she was in bad shape. Her father was and I think that's why they never interviewed him...I don't recall an interview with him.

Back on the topic...Is there any proof of when this fight happened? I read the Jean Couty transcript and he clearly could not remember when this occured. He thought it could have been in May I believe he said. If it was in May they could have forgotten it by than. I bet you they probably had many fights though. Also, how did Lee know they had a big fight close to Caylee's day of death? I guess Cindy or George told him.

 

[Novice Seeker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8Z2L8KN-I&NR=1

Merry Christmas!!

So many alarm bells going off with this interview :furious:

Note George's demeanor during this interview. He's already smelled the car. He knew ICA didn't have a job and no nanny. It would be interesting to see when George's behavior changed back in 2008.

During the interview George appears calm, his voice is without distress and his body language is relaxed, un-guarded, non-defensive. (ALARM BELL) George states that the last time Cindy and he saw Caylee and ICA was June 8th and 9th. The night LE responded to Cindy's 911 calls, all of the A's were questioned at length to determine a general timeline.
(ALARM BELL) George claims that ICA and Caylee had been moving out the last time Cindy or he saw them. No mention of the fight, the altercation b/w ICA and him over the stolen gas cans nor that they had be unable to communicate with ICA during that time period(ALARM BELL) George's description of the home that HE, which he uses along with Cindy, to paint the ONLY home Caylee's ever had. Note the words George uses to describe the home environment. (ALARM BELL) George curtely deflects questions about ICA with the claim that the issues surrounding ICA and her lies to LE ARE SEPARATE FROM FINDING HIS GRAND DAUGHTER. When he knew, he knew, he knew :furious:


Next....:bangheadI've been through so many of those little red walls and the trial is only beginning)

 

[allycat1208]

Novice Seeker,

Thanks for that video, I believe that George is the one in the family that most likely from the beginning had an inkling that Casey commited this crime. I think he just felt that its his daughter...he has to protect her so he tries to convince himself otherwise. I think all of the family believe KC killed Caylee, but George the most and from the beginning. Actually all of them concoct ideas and coincidences that deflect the blame from Casey. The funniest ideas are by Cindy when she tries to convince law enforcement that Zani is a code name for Amy, Jesse or anyone she could blame. She put Amy and Zani together because they are both tall and because Amy was going to Peurto Rico and Zani is supposedly Peurto Rican. Any coincidence that came along convinced her to focus the blame on someone else. And of course these ridiculous clues were coming from KC.

 

[countzero]

Let's not forget this small (not) gem. We all got to view CAs bank statements. She was covering for ICA then and no doubt months if not years prior to 2008. ICA siphoning off CAs dads nursing home bank account was more than enough to set CA in a rage. Thus, driving home she probably did a slow burn. Rattling off in her wee brain just exactly what she was going to confront ICA with. GA not being home then, she probably let loose her temper as we have all witnessed her capabilities in doing so.

Caylee was collateral damage for CA and ICAs battles.

 

[LambChop]

Let's not forget this small (not) gem. We all got to view CAs bank statements. She was covering for ICA then and no doubt months if not years prior to 2008. ICA siphoning off CAs dads nursing home bank account was more than enough to set CA in a rage. Thus, driving home she probably did a slow burn. Rattling off in her wee brain just exactly what she was going to confront ICA with. GA not being home then, she probably let loose her temper as we have all witnessed her capabilities in doing so.

Caylee was collateral damage for CA and ICAs battles.

I thought SP had found out about the missing money in April because KC had used her March birthday money check to get funds out of her grandfather's account. CA wanted KC to work off what she stole from SP and SP said she did not want KC in her home. Smart woman. So I could be wrong but I thought this was found out in April and BOA restored the money to SP in May. This is why CA took Caylee alone on Father's Day because KC was not welcome in the grandmother's home. Too bad BOA did not press charges at that time. We could be looking at a different outcome. jmo

 

[allycat1208]

It was funny to me...in a deposition of Lee Anthony, ... one of the attorneys ask Lee if KC has a history of communicating in riddles and Lee says definitely. Who in the world would give information about your missing child in way of a riddle or clues and the Anthony's explain this as KC has to in order to protect her family. She is so, so concerned with them? The only concern KC showed about any of them is that occasionally after Caylee was missing she would return their calls. Cindy admitted to a few people that Casey is a sociopath, but than she goes on to casting the blame on anyone else. Its understandable though... no parent wants to believe their own child is capable of this. I just wonder if they can get charged with obstruction of justice in anything they have done. I hope not...I think if they did obstruct justice it was subconciously.

 

[ynotdivein]

It seems that we have at least temporarily exhausted the topic of the fight between Cindy and Casey, which is causing this thread to veer all over the road. I'm going to lock it up shortly before we run into a tree or something.

There are existing threads for GA's interviews and jury selection--please PM me or another mod if you have trouble finding them!

 

[luvgoldens]

What happened to the night of the big fight when Cindy choked Casey? This is the night Caylee was murdered right? Why is the prosecution not bringing this up? According to what Cindy said on the witness stand the 3 C's looked at pictures that night and everyone went happily to bed. What's going on?