Did Caylee Give Hints of Secrets?

[LCoastMom]

Well we know they don't think that. Cindy thinks Caylee is still alive.

If CA truly thought Caylee was alive and living in NY - she has had enough time over the last 2 1/2 years to personally knock on every door in the city - in between talk shows, cruising, depo's and hearings. The FACT that she has not done this makes me believe she had ulterior motives in her Caylee is alive speech.

Caylee would now be almost 5 1/2, enrolled in school and a very different little girl - than the precious toddler who sang to her GGPa and asked, "You tired, Papa?"

CA knows Caylee is deceased - I'm not sure if CA has admitted to herself that this came about at her daughter's hands - but she surely knows. IMO CA's actions have been very passive - aggressive towards ICA, which makes me believe that on some level she knows, what she will never say out loud. ICA is the one who killed her grandbaby - she even admitted it to her, in the Diary of Days -

“On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies.”

This was ICA's response to "My Caylee is Missing!" sounds like a spiteful beotch, doesn't it!?

That poor, little tot, caught in a battle of wills between two women - each in a power struggle - CA cut off ICA's funds (What ICA values most), so ICA took away what CA valued most (Caylee) - then ICA proceeded to remind her parents how she and Caylee were the same little person. Powerless, maybe? just like Caylee had been.

Yes, I believe Caylee told CA things while the two of them were all alone, on the trip back and forth to visit the grands and if there was a fight that night, it was about what CA learned.

 

[Tulessa]

If CA truly thought Caylee was alive and living in NY - she has had enough time over the last 2 1/2 years to personally knock on every door in the city - in between talk shows, cruising, depo's and hearings. The FACT that she has not done this makes me believe she had ulterior motives in her Caylee is alive speech.

Caylee would now be almost 5 1/2, enrolled in school and a very different little girl - than the precious toddler who sang to her GGPa and asked, "You tired, Papa?"

CA knows Caylee is deceased - I'm not sure if CA has admitted to herself that this came about at her daughter's hands - but she surely knows. IMO CA's actions have been very passive - aggressive towards ICA, which makes me believe that on some level she knows, what she will never say out loud. ICA is the one who killed her grandbaby - she even admitted it to her, in the Diary of Days -

“On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies.”

[BThis was ICA's response to "My Caylee is Missing!" sounds like a spiteful beotch, doesn't it!?][/B]

That poor, little tot, caught in a battle of wills between two women - each in a power struggle - CA cut off ICA's funds (What ICA values most), so ICA took away what CA valued most (Caylee) - then ICA proceeded to remind her parents how she and Caylee were the same little person. Powerless, maybe? just like Caylee had been.

Yes, I believe Caylee told CA things while the two of them were all alone, on the trip back and forth to visit the grands and if there was a fight that night, it was about what CA learned.

BBM, Was that her response to Cindy's Myspace or ramblings in her personal diary?

 

[LCoastMom]

DD often repeats things I wish she wouldn't. 3 examples from this summer, at 2.5 years old - disclaimer, we use normal body part names for private parts around here, which I know not everyone likes to do with small kids:
1) At my in-laws' house - me: "oh shoot" DD: "no mama, not oh shoot." me: "what, honey? I don't understand." DD: "not oh SHOOT, mama, daddy says oh S**T."
2) At a dinner with my parents and my in-laws shortly after announcing pregnancy #2: "mama, I comed out from your v...." My mom's response? "Did she just say she came from China?" No mom, she sure didn't.
3) When my parents visited for the holidays, DD was pretending that she was a dog and her little brother was a puppy. My dad said, "oh, does he have a tail?" DD looked at him quizzically and said, "No, he has a p...." ON VIDEO. A video I wanted to send to my grandmother. Needless to say, we cut the video there and tried again.

MOO

Respectfully snipped by me.

Yes, they do know how to say the one thing to get everyones attention. When my oldest DD was 2, her dad and I were both in college. We took her to pizza parties etc with other students - at one such event, one girl from his class used F or F'er in every sentence - the next day at my parents house my DD used her new word repeatedly.

ladylurker - :welcome:

Really excellent post.

 

[LCoastMom]

BBM, Was that her response to Cindy's Myspace or ramblings in her personal diary?

Casey Anthony Official Myspace: Diary of Days - July 7, 2008.

(cached)

http://patrishka.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/casey-anthony-myspace-diary-of-days/

 

[Tulessa]

Personal ramblings online hehe.

 

[LambChop]

Respectfully snipped by me.

ITA. I'm really surprised to see people comparing children at Caylee's age to animals in terms of communication. No offense intended at all, just saying that is inaccurate. I worked in developmental psychology before having kids, and even working with severely communication-challenged autistic preschoolers who were right around 3, most of them could certainly express themselves better than a dog. If Caylee could understand how to get her own breakfast and reliably do so, clearly she has some level of intelligence & verbal understanding, whether it's average or not.

My daughter is 3, and since she was a baby we've been in a moms' group with a bunch of kids her age. DD is the oldest, and the youngest is about 2.5. A friend with an 18 month old joins us sometimes as well. The children have varying levels of speech ability. One of the boys is pretty behind in communication, and yet he can still say "Joey hit me" and "I don't WANT to share" and stuff like that. The 18 month old might come to us crying, and if we say "what's wrong?" she can point to her head and point to a table she banged her head on and say "OUCH" and whine. If one of the other children is a bit rough with her, she will start whining a lot and if we say "what happened?" she will point to the child who was rough with her, say the child's name (or her version of it), and say "OUCH." Huge verbal boosts happen between 18 months and 3.

IMO if Caylee was no more intelligible than a dog (or any animal that can "communicate" but not really) at nearly 3 years old - the age at which many kids are starting preschool, learning ABCs and numbers, etc - the pediatrician (assuming she ever saw one? I hope so considering CA's nurse background!) would have noticed warning signs by 18 months to 2 years.

DD often repeats things I wish she wouldn't. 3 examples from this summer, at 2.5 years old - disclaimer, we use normal body part names for private parts around here, which I know not everyone likes to do with small kids:
1) At my in-laws' house - me: "oh shoot" DD: "no mama, not oh shoot." me: "what, honey? I don't understand." DD: "not oh SHOOT, mama, daddy says oh S**T."
2) At a dinner with my parents and my in-laws shortly after announcing pregnancy #2: "mama, I comed out from your v...." My mom's response? "Did she just say she came from China?" No mom, she sure didn't.
3) When my parents visited for the holidays, DD was pretending that she was a dog and her little brother was a puppy. My dad said, "oh, does he have a tail?" DD looked at him quizzically and said, "No, he has a p...." ON VIDEO. A video I wanted to send to my grandmother. Needless to say, we cut the video there and tried again.

Sorry to ramble on and on. :innocent: I am such a nerd about this kind of thing. Basically - even if Caylee was significantly behind verbally, she would have been able to convey enough information to get KC in trouble. I do think CA could have been in denial about it, considering the amount of facts she just completely discounts. My daughter will sometimes tell my husband at the end of the day that she had a good day at school (on a non-school day) or that someone gave her a present that she didn't actually get, so it's not like everything out of her mouth is factual information. But she certainly can express herself.

Last thing to add - I was physically/emotionally abused as a child, and I know that when I was in preschool (I started at 2 yrs 10 months), I was very convincingly instructed that I better not tell anyone about it because the police might take me away from my mommy & daddy. Not hard to frighten a little kid out of mentioning certain things, but I remember various occasions where I got in trouble for simply answering someone's question honestly just because I didn't quite understand that what was happening at home was not normal.

OMG sorry to ramble so much abt myself when I'm a total newb here. I've been lurking here since July 2008 so I feel like I know enough of you to let my freak flag fly, I guess. I just wanted to clarify that Caylee could definitely have given up incriminating information in one way or another. She might have said something fishy here or there that you would not expect a small child to say, maybe things that she only could have learned at a no-clothes party or in a room full of 20-somethings drinking booze & smoking pot.

MOO

Good post. I know, been there, done that with toddlers. They are sponges and can communicate quite well when you ask the right questions. Many years ago my husband was trying to zip up my, just turned two year old, daughter's jacket. He struggled with it because the zipper was stuck and keep grunting and struggling and out her mouth came, "Say ***** daddy." Obviously she thought that would work. lol. They take it all in, process it and sometimes things come out that you never knew they knew the meanings of. Children are amazing. So I think by the age of 3, Caylee probably could say many things just did not do so because of her mother. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

Caylee was very aware for her age. Sweet thing asked if her great-grandpa was tired. That is one of the things that breaks my heart so much... that she was so aware of what was going on around her. You can tell from the pictures taken of her in the months leading up to her death that something was wrong with that poor baby. Clinging onto her great-grandpa just kills me. I don't think she wanted to ever leave the comfort of his arms. His singing voice. She just looked terrified.

Poor, sweet Caylee!

 

[littlemisslegal]

it has been long ago i started this thread. many secrets are still a concern . one little person is dead. her secrets may have seemed trivial or jibber jaber then, now i would say at her age now, if alive, could have told what she remembered from her past. i still feel cindy and george adored her . i hope she knew some part of her life she had love.

 

[chelle70]

If CA truly thought Caylee was alive and living in NY - she has had enough time over the last 2 1/2 years to personally knock on every door in the city - in between talk shows, cruising, depo's and hearings. The FACT that she has not done this makes me believe she had ulterior motives in her Caylee is alive speech.

Yes, Cindy's ulterior motive can be summed up in one word: Propaganda.
I think she hopes just enough of her little quotes about believing Caylee is still alive will help KC's defense.

 

[crucibelle]

I have a bit of a theory - all the same stuff we've been posting about, but arranged in a slightly different order.

We know that CA, and ICA to some degree, kept ICA's pregnancy hidden from relatives. As discussed, I have always believed this was a stigma issue, rather than the family unit ignoring the pregnancy when at home "with just themselves". I'm wondering if the decision of adoption hadn't been made yet, and Cindy was "making some space" for that to possibly happen by denying the pregnancy at the wedding. Because if ICA turned up at the next family gathering, obviously not pregnant, with no baby in tow, then she wasn't pregnant was she? Even though obviously again, she was!

I'll also bet ICA got a lot of attention from her family when she was pregnant - how are you feeling, no - you just rest - we'll do that, no you don't look fat honey, you look gorgeous, etc. And when Caylee was born, I'm sure both Mother and Daughter got tons of attention. But it doesn't take long - what? - two or three months, before the attention switches off the new mother, and on to the gorgeous new baby. Grandparents would have been completely focused on the "bright new star" in their midst.

So, to focus on another area for a moment, I think ICA has always had severe behavioral issues. I believe Cindy as her mother, knew there was something just not right about ICA. So I think she made a deal with herself, and an unspoken deal with ICA. Live here with us, keep Caylee here so I can keep an eye on you and enjoy the benefits of having this darling in our midst. And I will do that, support you financially, as long as you stay out of trouble and do a good job of looking after your child. If you can't do that, then off you go into the big bad world to support yourself, and we'll raise Caylee on our own.

I don't think George knew about this "deal" and this was why Cindy told him to leave it alone when he was ranting about the non-job at the"Sports Authority". After all, who was he to talk since Cindy was supporting George financially also.

But we know ICA didn't "behave" don't we? And we strongly suspect Cindy was beginning to see ICA was neglecting Caylee also.

All this time, ICA was completely PO because Caylee was the centre of attention and the very reason her life was being restricted. After all, she was working wasn't she? She was managing her life with a child? Why no respect? Because Cindy knew better.

So I think things really came to a head. Cindy had given ICA her last chance and blew a gasket when she found out about the theft of her father's rest home pension. So, she told ICA to get out, and no more being supported - it was over. Cindy told her to leave Caylee, that she and George would adopt her and ICA could get on with her life and do whatever she wanted for all Cindy cared.

ICA knew Cayee was the pawn, so she stormed off with her. But Cindy wasn't begging ICA to come back, she was begging ICA to bring Caylee back.

So we know what happened to Caylee, out of spite? Out of revenge? Out of hatred? All IMO

This entire post is so good, I did not want to snip any of it. Logicalgirl, ITA with you. I think Cindy knew all along that KC wasn't working... also agree that is why she didn't want George spying on her. Even in the jail visitation videos, KC says something about "thinking about jobs" (as in, jobs she could do when she got out) and Cindy says "You don't have to work."

 

[Gma Kat]

Respectfully snipped by me.

ITA. I'm really surprised to see people comparing children at Caylee's age to animals in terms of communication. No offense intended at all, just saying that is inaccurate. I worked in developmental psychology before having kids, and even working with severely communication-challenged autistic preschoolers who were right around 3, most of them could certainly express themselves better than a dog. If Caylee could understand how to get her own breakfast and reliably do so, clearly she has some level of intelligence & verbal understanding, whether it's average or not.

My daughter is 3, and since she was a baby we've been in a moms' group with a bunch of kids her age. DD is the oldest, and the youngest is about 2.5. A friend with an 18 month old joins us sometimes as well. The children have varying levels of speech ability. One of the boys is pretty behind in communication, and yet he can still say "Joey hit me" and "I don't WANT to share" and stuff like that. The 18 month old might come to us crying, and if we say "what's wrong?" she can point to her head and point to a table she banged her head on and say "OUCH" and whine. If one of the other children is a bit rough with her, she will start whining a lot and if we say "what happened?" she will point to the child who was rough with her, say the child's name (or her version of it), and say "OUCH." Huge verbal boosts happen between 18 months and 3.

IMO if Caylee was no more intelligible than a dog (or any animal that can "communicate" but not really) at nearly 3 years old - the age at which many kids are starting preschool, learning ABCs and numbers, etc - the pediatrician (assuming she ever saw one? I hope so considering CA's nurse background!) would have noticed warning signs by 18 months to 2 years.

DD often repeats things I wish she wouldn't. 3 examples from this summer, at 2.5 years old - disclaimer, we use normal body part names for private parts around here, which I know not everyone likes to do with small kids:
1) At my in-laws' house - me: "oh shoot" DD: "no mama, not oh shoot." me: "what, honey? I don't understand." DD: "not oh SHOOT, mama, daddy says oh S**T."
2) At a dinner with my parents and my in-laws shortly after announcing pregnancy #2: "mama, I comed out from your v...." My mom's response? "Did she just say she came from China?" No mom, she sure didn't.
3) When my parents visited for the holidays, DD was pretending that she was a dog and her little brother was a puppy. My dad said, "oh, does he have a tail?" DD looked at him quizzically and said, "No, he has a p...." ON VIDEO. A video I wanted to send to my grandmother. Needless to say, we cut the video there and tried again.

Sorry to ramble on and on. :innocent: I am such a nerd about this kind of thing. Basically - even if Caylee was significantly behind verbally, she would have been able to convey enough information to get KC in trouble. I do think CA could have been in denial about it, considering the amount of facts she just completely discounts. My daughter will sometimes tell my husband at the end of the day that she had a good day at school (on a non-school day) or that someone gave her a present that she didn't actually get, so it's not like everything out of her mouth is factual information. But she certainly can express herself.

Last thing to add - I was physically/emotionally abused as a child, and I know that when I was in preschool (I started at 2 yrs 10 months), I was very convincingly instructed that I better not tell anyone about it because the police might take me away from my mommy & daddy. Not hard to frighten a little kid out of mentioning certain things, but I remember various occasions where I got in trouble for simply answering someone's question honestly just because I didn't quite understand that what was happening at home was not normal.

OMG sorry to ramble so much abt myself when I'm a total newb here. I've been lurking here since July 2008 so I feel like I know enough of you to let my freak flag fly, I guess. I just wanted to clarify that Caylee could definitely have given up incriminating information in one way or another. She might have said something fishy here or there that you would not expect a small child to say, maybe things that she only could have learned at a no-clothes party or in a room full of 20-somethings drinking booze & smoking pot.

MOO

Freak Flag well flown Ladylurker!!! :rocker: Really appreciate the hilarious examples. My gkids are the same age (3 and 2 10/12's) and the honest statements out of their mouths "I don't want to go home Mommy's gonna be real upset and spank my butt!" One granddaughter says this everytime we are driving home and she is about to fall asleep....needless to say we all had a laugh at it before turning our daughter into CPS (j/k) it was a lesson in being careful at what we think is cute one moment and misinterpreted in another.

 

[Gma Kat]

Caylee was very aware for her age. Sweet thing asked if her great-grandpa was tired. That is one of the things that breaks my heart so much... that she was so aware of what was going on around her. You can tell from the pictures taken of her in the months leading up to her death that something was wrong with that poor baby. Clinging onto her great-grandpa just kills me. I don't think she wanted to ever leave the comfort of his arms. His singing voice. She just looked terrified.

Poor, sweet Caylee!

I couldn't agree with you more LolaMoon08.

 

[strawberry]

Not to upset anyone but I know from personal experience a child can relay what they need to say before the age of 2. At 19 months my daughter was speaking complete sentences. She was my firstborn but for me I believe the differnce came from reading the "Baby whisperer'" I talked to her constantly as well as signing. I was blown away with the fact she could communicate clearly with my husband and I. When DD was 20 months she was bit at daycare, second bite but as a nurse I freaked being it was in the soft tissue above the eye as well as below. As always an iccident report is filled out to help the parent understand. Basically it said she and another boy were squabbling over a toy and he bit her while standing. At home I asked DD what happened she told me the name of the child that did it as well as "mommy I was squeaming nobody helped me, he was sitting on me" Her statement completey made the incident report fraudulent. Least to say I spoke with administration the next day, they fessed up that no teachers were present and being the child was an inch taller then my daughter just not physically possible. At that age anybody was able to understand her and she potty trained herself at 21 months, she hated being wet and would come to me stating she was yucky in her bum LOL To all that expect to have children, read this book it blew me away when I started to get responses from my babies, my experience of having babies were sweetened because I learned how to communicate with them.
DD could express herself easily from early on but DS was non-verbal until he was shortly older then 2 but he was an avid signer, nothing short of amazing

It is also well known if you babble to your baby then they to will babble but if you speak to them they will in return speak back.
I believe Caylee was verbal, two examples of this from her videos is the breakfast (warped) taping as well as the one in the bedroom, she was saying cheese for the camera I imagine mommidearist said that a lot (you can see her in the mirror in one of the videos) also the taping of Caylee singing you are my sunshine she says "Nan's sunshine...please don't take Nan's sunshine away If you watch the videos of Caylee, you can undoubtly see when she interacted with Casey she's eager for attention and Casey seems far to aggressive with Caylee. Casey is so selfish (Moo)

BBM: same here. She said Mommy socks on at 19 months and from there it was a word a day at least and was completely verbal. We never had that stage where they understand but can't speak (or it was a very short phase). I have her on tape talking away to me well before 2.

 

[Gma Kat]

Respectfully BBM.

LiveLaughLuv, I'm right there with you in your doubt..... If Caylee could actually have counted to 45 in Spanish, I believe the Ants/KC would definitely have videotaped it... and since we haven't seen one, I tend to believe it doesn't exist; therefore, by elimination , I believe Caylee could not do it.... Just more of Cindy's B.S. meant to impress.

I am always available to eat my words if that particular video should pop up one day. :crazy:

JMO.

BBm: Yes yes and yes! I'm not sure of the source, whether it was statements by CA, or if I read it somewhere, but Caylee's ability to count to 45 in Spanish was attributed to two different sources: 1) she learned it on Dora the Explorer, and 2) Ricardo taught it to her. I watch waaaay too much Dora with the gkids and they do not go to 45 from what I've seen. Now if Ricardo taught Caylee to count that far in Spanish then Caylee spent ALOT of time with Ricardo and was better at counting in Spanish than speaking in English.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Well we know they don't think that. Cindy thinks Caylee is still alive.

If Cindy really thinks that I wonder why she is still asking for donations for her CayleeMarieAnthony Foundation- which is dedicated to the MEMORY of Caylee..wouldn't that make it a tad fraudulent?

 

[crucibelle]

Freak Flag well flown Ladylurker!!! :rocker: Really appreciate the hilarious examples. My gkids are the same age (3 and 2 10/12's) and the honest statements out of their mouths "I don't want to go home Mommy's gonna be real upset and spank my butt!" One granddaughter says this everytime we are driving home and she is about to fall asleep....needless to say we all had a laugh at it before turning our daughter into CPS (j/k) it was a lesson in being careful at what we think is cute one moment and misinterpreted in another.

My daughter told her grandparents that her father and I gave her beer all the time, that she really liked it, and it was her fave drink. Of course, they asked about it and were freaking out until we explained to them that she was talking about root beer.. lol

 

[passionflower]

Yes, sadly I have always thought on the ride to or from the visit to Great grandpa;
Cindy and Caylee talked.
Caylee told grandma things that started the huge fight that Father's Day.
JMOO

IMO duct tape on mouth was a way of ICA to say 'shut up Caylee"

 

[RoseTree]

Kids at that age can be extremely verbal and logical. I share a nanny with a friend, and our children are the same age. When our nanny was new, my son was also 2 years and 10 months old, and her son was barely 3. My son couldn't tell me if the new nanny was nice to him, etc... but my friend's son could give her details.

It is possible, not probable, but it is possible.

 

[LolaMoon08]

BBm: Yes yes and yes! I'm not sure of the source, whether it was statements by CA, or if I read it somewhere, but Caylee's ability to count to 45 in Spanish was attributed to two different sources: 1) she learned it on Dora the Explorer, and 2) Ricardo taught it to her. I watch waaaay too much Dora with the gkids and they do not go to 45 from what I've seen. Now if Ricardo taught Caylee to count that far in Spanish then Caylee spent ALOT of time with Ricardo and was better at counting in Spanish than speaking in English.

I don't know many two-year-olds that can count to 45 in English, let alone in Spanish... especially as a second language? I agree 100% that Caylee did not learn how to count to 45 from Dora the Explorer! Or anyone for that matter.

This is not a bad thing, but Caylee, from what I have seen, did not have "advanced" communication skills. She was very typical for her age. My niece talked a lot like her at that age. We used to call her talk "Haley-nese." She would say words that we could clearly understand in a sentence, but it would also be mixed in with her baby-jibberish. Caylee was clearly on the right path... she was beginning to put her sentences together. She was beginning to understand how to put feelings into words. Counting to 45 in Spanish? Don't think so!

Another thing, looking at pictures of her room, I see a lot of dolls, stuffed animals, kitchen and dress-up toys, but nothing that shows that she was learning her 1-2-3's or A-B-C's. Not to say that someone wasn't teaching her these things, but I just don't see evidence that they were overly concerned about her learning these things at that moment? She was just still a baby! I don't even think Caylee was fully counting to 10 in English, let alone 45 in Spanish!

 

[drip~drop]

I don't think so - Caylee was nowhere near the level of that disgusting little boy who was "cutely" claiming he didn't like his mom. She was just not at that level. It makes no sense to think that she was. And yes you read to your kids, you pay attention to them. The Anthony family did not value Caylee for anything other than a photo op or a status boost on a dating website. Any evidence to the contrary is welcome.

imo he isn't a disgusting boy Horace, just a widdle boy saying what comes naturally from a childs mouth. Usually just the truth of things.
IMO, oc