Did Caylee Give Hints of Secrets?

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Casey's entire life seems to have been a package of lies held together with strings of further lies to try to hold it together. Considering the fact that Cindy and Casey had lived together all of Casey's life, I am sure Cindy had to have realized this and couldn't have been too shocked with whatever little Caylee may have exposed. . . Or could she? Could Caylee have given hints of something so horrendous that Cindy didn't already suspect, herself . . . Something much worse than no job, sleeping around, lies, lies, and more lies?

IIRC, Cindy got upset with George for trying to check out the Sports Authority (or whatever the name of that place was) job and told him to nose out. She preferred to be non-confrontational. Both parents seemed to have swallowed huge whoppers. So why would Caylee's confirmation of something she already suspected have an impact on her to the point that she would change her past coping pattern and finally get so upset that she allegedly started to choke Casey that night?

There's no question in my mind that Caylee could communicate well ~ and especially with Cindy. They spent a lot of time together and even if strangers might not have understood every word Caylee said, Cindy knew did. It's that way between grandchildren and grandparents who help raise them.

We have no way of knowing what might have started the suspected fight that night but it's sure my opinion that if it was a secret that Caylee hinted at to Cindy ~ it was much, much bigger than the revelation that Casey was jobless or sleeping around.

And I don't even want to think further than that. moo.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Yep, CA was pizzed that ICA kept Caylee from her. Dontcha know after all it was CAs birthday and she wanted her daughters oops sorry ICA slip of the finger .... CA wanted her girls all together so they could bond. :sick: CA claimed she even went to Universal to get Caylee, yet there is absolutely no proof she did this ... unless someone knows something I forgot.

That reminds me of one of the first TV interviews with CA that I watched, it might have been on the NG show where she said that ICA had taken some time out 'to bond with her child' and I sit there saying Whaaat - she needs to bond with a 2 yr old, what has she been doing for the last 2 1/2 years that there is no bond betwen them ? I thought that was the most bizarre thing to say, but CA just said it straight-faced. That whole family talks like some shady melodramatic soap opera characters...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

My Daughter will be 14 months old on the 12th here. She signs more than she talks at the moment. Milk, eat, drink, yes, no, all done, come, up, Cat, Dog, horse...yadda yadda.
I must say I'm a little offended with Horace and his comments about the "disgusting" little boy and the cookies video. Seems kinda rude and inappropriate to call him "disgusting".

If my daughter can answer yes or no questions and Sign Juice vs Milk for what she wants to drink.. why is it so impossible that Caylee could have been communicating to CA?

Did you sleep at Zanny's Last night honey? - Caylee - No
Did you sleep with Mommy? - Caylee - No
Where did you sleep? - Caylee - in the car

Car is certainly a Word that she would have heard daily and most likely would have been able to say. I know my daughter knows what I am saying when I say, lets go for a ride in the truck honey. She can't say truck yet but if she cant say TRUCK by the time she is two i will be shocked.

Additionally, I have a son who is almost 3. He had Down Syndrome and is not as advanced as my daughter with communication but he manages to get his point across and tell us all kinds of things with out talking proper words at all. If i offer him something he doesnt want I KNOW it. If there is something he DOES want... I know it. and we are talking about a kid with an intellectual disability that speaks about 5 words, Mom, Dad, NO, DONT, COME, UP. Thats about it. He can take my hand and show me things tho.

Disgusting is a little kid telling his mom he doesn't like her, and the mom thinking it's funny. I just found it horrid to watch that.

Other than that, I just think kids will answer yes or no randomly to things and are unreliable that's all.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Disgusting is a little kid telling his mom he doesn't like her, and the mom thinking it's funny. I just found it horrid to watch that.

Other than that, I just think kids will answer yes or no randomly to things and are unreliable that's all.

I think that is a common mis-conception about kids. My daughter was exactly Caylee's age, when they found her. My daughter knew enough to tell me to take my son back to where he came from when he was born LOL. Kids are a lot smarter than people give them credit for. IMO kids can certainly answer yes/no questions with reliability. The thought to lie or make something up, they take very seriously. Try telling a 2-3 year old their shirt is blue when it's actually red and see what happends. Kids at this age are generally very serious and literal. And we don't think CA grilled Caylee about what her mother was up to...IMO that is what contributed to her demise. God bless her.

 

[countzero]

I have always thought that Caylee started repeating sexual words that she heard from ICA, either in person, from phone calls or ICA just talking to herself about them. And she repeated them to CA in general talk or by being asked.

 

[flourish]

I have always thought that Caylee started repeating sexual words that she heard from ICA, either in person, from phone calls or ICA just talking to herself about them. And she repeated them to CA in general talk or by being asked.

It's very possible...I'm amazed at what comes out of the mouths of my preschool students sometimes...like, so smoothly in their conversations that it's not even a "test the grown-up" swear, it's just the language they hear...nasty quotes from songs, etc.

 

[Aedrys]

I have always thought that Caylee started repeating sexual words that she heard from ICA, either in person, from phone calls or ICA just talking to herself about them. And she repeated them to CA in general talk or by being asked.

I've kind of wondered if what Cindy was told was not directly in response to something she was asking, but maybe Caylee just told her something without being asked? Maybe she heard a song on the radio and had a weird or bad reaction to it, or Cindy was just talking with her, not really grilling her for anything, but suddenly Caylee was saying things she never ever expected her to say? I'm wondering if it was like that because I'm thinking Cindy had asked Caylee before about things, and I'm sure Cindy knew what was going on but was just in denial.

To me, it would take something she totally didn't expect to hear, or a reaction to something innocuous that she never expected to really jar her out of her denial. I don't think it would be something from a question and answer session. Cindy could too easily lead the questioning and get the answers she wanted from Caylee since Caylee was so young. But if she was just talking to Caylee or Caylee just suddenly said something without being prompted, I would think that would disturb Cindy more because she couldn't control something like that and meld it into her perfect family fantasy.

Maybe before, Caylee had just said what Cindy wanted to hear or expected to hear, but this time, she totally took Cindy off guard with what she said, and Cindy realized she couldn't be in denial about what was going on anymore.

The other alternative is that Cindy had never talked to Caylee about Casey before, and this one time she finally did, and she was so shocked by what she heard that she knew she had to do something about Casey. I can see her staying in denial by not asking Caylee about anything too. I think the first option makes more sense, but this second one could fit too.

In either case, Caylee definitely told Cindy something and maybe even did something that made her want to confront Casey that fateful night.

 

[Swancat63]

It's very possible...I'm amazed at what comes out of the mouths of my preschool students sometimes...like, so smoothly in their conversations that it's not even a "test the grown-up" swear, it's just the language they hear...nasty quotes from songs, etc.

I sometimes wonder if the reason the "MaMa" doll was left behind because maybe, like all children growing up in that kind of environment, Caylee acted out something sexual with her doll. Not physically herself, just acting out a "scene" she observed? Or perhaps held a crayon in the manner of smoking a joint or partaking of other illegal substances. Ya know, like her incubator Casey AnthonY(ICA).

 

[Eidetic]

OT-Your niece sounds adorable...and I bet you get alot of joy from being with her.

I really do get a lot of joy just being with her, I am thankful for all the time I have with her. I have several nephews and another niece who are long distance and that's difficult for me. This little one has taught me many things, I love her as if she were my own.

She is a child and she thrives with nuturing and guidance but she is also an individual who deserves respect, when someone promises her something to follow through and honesty.

Proof she is adorable (I took these pictures while I was watching her and her brother)

 

[Eidetic]

I've kind of wondered if what Cindy was told was not directly in response to something she was asking, but maybe Caylee just told her something without being asked? Maybe she heard a song on the radio and had a weird or bad reaction to it, or Cindy was just talking with her, not really grilling her for anything, but suddenly Caylee was saying things she never ever expected her to say? I'm wondering if it was like that because I'm thinking Cindy had asked Caylee before about things, and I'm sure Cindy knew what was going on but was just in denial.

To me, it would take something she totally didn't expect to hear, or a reaction to something innocuous that she never expected to really jar her out of her denial. I don't think it would be something from a question and answer session. Cindy could too easily lead the questioning and get the answers she wanted from Caylee since Caylee was so young. But if she was just talking to Caylee or Caylee just suddenly said something without being prompted, I would think that would disturb Cindy more because she couldn't control something like that and meld it into her perfect family fantasy.

Maybe before, Caylee had just said what Cindy wanted to hear or expected to hear, but this time, she totally took Cindy off guard with what she said, and Cindy realized she couldn't be in denial about what was going on anymore.

The other alternative is that Cindy had never talked to Caylee about Casey before, and this one time she finally did, and she was so shocked by what she heard that she knew she had to do something about Casey. I can see her staying in denial by not asking Caylee about anything too. I think the first option makes more sense, but this second one could fit too.

In either case, Caylee definitely told Cindy something and maybe even did something that made her want to confront Casey that fateful night.

Another possibility is that Caylee was starting to get curious about the difference between girls and boys. My nephew is 5 and he is also going through a curiousity phase. I've been teaching them not to let people see their private areas (even each other) and if someone asks to see or try to touch, they should let an adult know. My niece has been giggling and talking about "boobies" and "peanuts" (penis).

She shocked me and my husband the other day when I was helping her get dressed, as my husband came out of the bathroom for his morning shower she asked him if he loved vagina after we were having a dicussion about body parts. Those moments are where I get the ball rolling as far as the private talk goes... she seems to really understand and she repeats back that she shouldn't show them to people and that people shouldn't be touching. I try to let her get ready mostly on her own and give her privacy, but she still struggles with backwards clothes and arm/leg holes. She will now even try to rush and say "I better hurry! Don't let ____ see!" and is learning modesty.

Something like that is normal out of the mouth of innocent babes, they don't mean anything by it but it sounds shocking to adults. Especially if Cindy had reason to suspect otherwise... and as highly strung as she is... something like that could easily make her lash out at Casey.

 

[Gma Kat]

If Caylee saying something to CA was the catalyst for the alleged 6/15 argument/choking incident then I believe what she said finally crossed whatever line of morality/decency CA had drawn with respect to ICA and her (mis)behavior.

We know CA tolerated and even enabled some reprehensible behavior on ICA's part over the years. So, what on earth was so shocking and/or alarming that Caylee said that would have caused the "incident" between mother and daughter? There have been some great ideas posted on this thread about what could have caused this confrontation and ultimately ICA's departure assumingly with Caylee the following morning. It seems that the obvious, stealing and lying about work, were old news - and I totally agree with the posters who feel it must have been a statement about neglect on ICA's part toward Caylee. As crazy as I believe CA is, her instincts were to protect Caylee first (as evidenced by her MySpace and the 911 calls). So it makes sense that Caylee could have said something so disturbing that CA finally found the motivation to take control of Caylee's life and boot ICA out. Of course ICA had to have the final word and destroyed the pawn they played with in their sick little game.

It does seem ironic that IF Caylee's own statements sparked the alleged 6/15 confrontation, that CA would ultimately end up protecting ICA once again......making even the most honorable of motivations on CA's part seem empty and meaningless now.

 

[Gma Kat]

Oh Eidetic! She's an absolute angel!

 

[Itsy]

I sometimes wonder if the reason the "MaMa" doll was left behind because maybe, like all children growing up in that kind of environment, Caylee acted out something sexual with her doll. Not physically herself, just acting out a "scene" she observed? Or perhaps held a crayon in the manner of smoking a joint or partaking of other illegal substances. Ya know, like her incubator Casey AnthonY(ICA).

OMG, I hate to even go here, but this post reminded me of several incidents with my niece. I have posted before on here about her - her mother ran off and left her & her brother when she was just 2 (almost 3) with their grandparents and we tried to get custody of her. (We couldn't have children of our own.) To help grandma take a break, we would keep her for weekends a lot of the time.

Anyway, before the mother ran off, she lived in public housing and hung around with a lot of less than desirable guys. I believe she was either abused or saw a lot of stuff she shouldn't have during this time based on the following behaviors we would see when we kept her.

-She would masturbate with a stuffed toy - not uncommon, but she did it compulsively.

-She would act out sexual positions/movements with other children (saw this thru a window on 2 different occasions).

-She once asked my then hubby if he "liked to hump little girls" while they were outside cleaning some fish. He literally dropped the knife he was using, scooped her up and brought her inside to plant her in front of the TV so he could talk to me about it privately; it had him SO upset & pissed off. Poor guy was shaking & wanted to hit whoever had put that idea in her head.

While the first two things weren't all that alarming, as kids will naturally do what feels good and copy what they see (& most of us played "doctor" as kids and maybe even walked in on mom and dad at the wrong time), the 3rd incident made us quite fearful for her safety. And, it wasn't long after this that the mom took off...

We were able to get the grandmother to get her into counseling, but she didn't really follow through with it (I think hubby's mom was embarrassed beyond belief and only took her due to our pressing the issue). Supposedly the counselor said our niece was "OK" & "just fine for her age" but to this day I don't believe it. I felt that maybe the "small town doc" wasn't experienced enough or grandma was just too mortified when I heard that. These days she is an unemployed young mother of three - all by different men - and living with an also unemployed drug user.

Many times over the years I have wished we'd fought harder to get custody of her, and that I'd insisted/pushed harder to be part of her life after hubby & I divorced (I was told in no uncertain terms to stay away about 20 years ago).

Anywho... the above post just got me wondering if something like this came up that fateful June night. God, I sure hope not.

 

[Gma Kat]

Kids at that age can be extremely verbal and logical. I share a nanny with a friend, and our children are the same age. When our nanny was new, my son was also 2 years and 10 months old, and her son was barely 3. My son couldn't tell me if the new nanny was nice to him, etc... but my friend's son could give her details.

It is possible, not probable, but it is possible.

BBM: Exactly. My granddaughters are that exact age right now 2 and 11 mos and one that just turned 3. :angel::angel: The 3 yr old has a brother 13 mos older.:hero: She communicates far more than the 2 and 11 mos gd, who is an only child. This age is a time where they change in leaps and bounds in verbal growth and communication. It is also a difficult age because they can say many things clearly and express themselves in many areas.....but......they can't express everything and begin weaving fact and fiction into their stories....and then there are those words only they understand! :whoosh: So whatever Caylee was trying to convey, or whatever CA was trying to extrapulate from her......no doubt interpretation was involved to a degree....and we all know how well CA can "interpret" things!!! :hand: :worms: :nevermind:

 

[Solace]

BBM: Exactly. My granddaughters are that exact age right now 2 and 11 mos and one that just turned 3. :angel::angel: The 3 yr old has a brother 13 mos older.:hero: She communicates far more than the 2 and 11 mos gd, who is an only child. This age is a time where they change in leaps and bounds in verbal growth and communication. It is also a difficult age because they can say many things clearly and express themselves in many areas.....but......they can't express everything and begin weaving fact and fiction into their stories....and then there are those words only they understand! :whoosh: So whatever Caylee was trying to convey, or whatever CA was trying to extrapulate from her......no doubt interpretation was involved to a degree....and we all know how well CA can "interpret" things!!! :hand: :worms: :nevermind:

The fact that CA and GA both KNEW she was not working and let her leave EVERY DAY for TWO YEARS and according to Ricardo stayed SOME 4 AND 5 NIGHTS a week with CAYLEE, speaks to how much lying they put up with. I believe that Cindy loved this child, but to let a baby leave with a pathological liar of epic proportions and a thief is absolutely unbelievable.

Is there anyone on this Board who would not be going crazy wondering what KC was doing with the child during the day and the "night" when they were away. I would not be able to function worrying about Caylee and who she was with and it would NOT BE HAPPENING. The guilt CA must feel has got to be epic and therefore she has gone into PROFOUND DENIAL, WHICH I believe is showing that she too is sociopathic in this regard. She is taking care of herself rather than admit and go for the truth.

The fact that Caylee did not recognize "Zanny" but who was a very "bright" child shows that CA and GA let this go on until it was too late. IMO