Did Darlie Routier murder her precious sons? Part 2

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I rec'd my info from the same documents you did. IF you read the BOND Hearing which was held shortly after the murders the PO states on the stand that Darlie did not cry until after they arrested her. Do not take my one comment and extend far beyond what I was actually speaking of. NONE OF US WERE THERE. Yet we all sit here and talk about it. Everyone here including you know that it is OPINIONS. If you read my other posts you would see that remark. Don't attack people, we are all here for the same thing.... justice for Damon and Devon. Which still to this date has not occurred unless you count Darlie sitting on DR all these years as justice. OH of course this is all JMO.

Whoa I'm gonna get off this sin wagon now.

You were not quoting the bond hearing you were quoting another poster. BTW conjecture means your opinion. I listed incidences of times when Darlie did cry. Just because she didn't cry in front of the officer who testified at her Bond hearing where conjecture is allowed doesn't mean she never cried. Darlie is 100% guilty in the court of public opinion. No amount of conjecture on my part will change that. In fact in the court of public opinion her tears were an act or crocadillian in nature:croc: You can't have it both ways. No tears then when tears are proven claiming them to only be an act. Do you not see what I see here- a lot of hateful emotions directed towards someone who may very well deserve the Death Penalty. Complete denial that she was convicted or freed on evidence and not the opinions of people. We all are faulted none is perfect with perfect judgements. We strive in our society to create an atmosphere in a COURTROOM where facts are the basis of convictions not conjecture.
Our pastor at church says it best when he reminds us to hate the sin not the sinner. Compassion isn't just for those we think are deserving it is for everyone including Darlie. I mean there has to be something wrong with someone who could murder a child. JMO
What are we doing as parents, teachers, neighbors, friends and community members if we can't detect and prevent behavior early enough to stop it from becoming a full blown crime against our weakest and most vunerable members of society -the children. I think there is a little bit of vengence in all of us so I don't blame you for venting it at Darlie.
I've vented at others before. I wasn't wrong for what I vented at but the way I vented was.
If I made you feel attacked I'm truly sorry.
BTW the Wal-Mart employee I vented at was 100% wrong but tearing down her job skills would not help her become a better customer service rep. She now hugs me everytime she sees me because I apologized for my anger and asked her nicely to do the best she could the next time a similar situation came up. Thank God an angel on my shoulder took my pride away and whispered to my heart - God loves her too.

 

[Mary456]

The police officers took the 5th amendment

We all know why Frosch and Patterson were forced to take the 5th. It's been rehashed a million times & was settled in their favor many years ago.

and the tape showing Darlie crying before the party was not entered into evidence.

How do you know she was crying if it wasn't entered into evidence?

The silly string party did her in. The jurors stated so after the trial.

Names of the jurors, please? (Hint: Charlie Samford doesn't count).

Tax paying citizens deserve better

You bet. They shouldn't have to pay for another trial, when Darlie received a fair one in the first place. And no, that's not JMO. Even her defense has given up on that line of attack.

 

[Mary456]

Funny how the only time she cried during the trial was when she was on the stand and became confused or defensive. Never once did she cry when they showed the pic's of her boys or even going into detail in regards to the crime.

Right you are, Wendy. It's common knowledge, by those who attended the trial (Barbara Davis, for example) that Darlie didn't cry until she was cross-examined & caught in her lies.

Imagine that.

 

[Mary456]

LOL I've done this also. And I must remark that I too was once a believer in her innocence!

To be honest, I was leaning toward guilt from the very first book I read (Hush Little Babies), but did not make up my mind - and this is the truth - until I read the transcript.

I've been discussing the West Memphis 3 on another board, and it's shocking how many people think they're innocent because of a made-for-TV movie. Forget the evidence and testimony, or the burden of having to READ the actual court documents. Entertainment, please!

Granted, some of them are young & naive, but some are old enough to know better

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Why does Charlie not count?
She may not have cried at what you or I would have cried at but crying because you are frustrated is very common. When on a witness stand you can't elaborate or correct misconstrued questions either. You must answer the questions even if they make you look guilty. I'm not saying she is or isn't I want a new trial only because so many questions remain unanswered to me. I have my own Darlie did it theory. I'm not so naive to think it impossible she didn't do it but her motivations to do it are revenge related JMO.
It is also possible they did it together and only one of them was caught. The fact that some bad investigation was done is true- not comfortable sending someone to death row for it.
The fact that Darlie and Darin both were not truthful also bothers me- makes me think more happened than we will ever know.
The fact that Police officers were ABLE to take the 5th bothers me- so much so I have a problem with a death sentence.
The fact that a death penalty is almost a certainity for her future is what bothers me the most. If she didn't do it and 20 years from now we do find something that would prove it she would be dead and it would be too late.
FOR HER BUT NOT FOR JUSTICE. We would have killed the boys mother too. A child killer could still be prosecuted for the second child's death. Leave her in prison to rot till death but with so many mistakes I don't see any point in giving her that lethal injection. I'm not a lawyer and some of you are more legal minded than myself.
Ask yourself this one question You are Darlie's lawyer would you have handled her defense differently than Mulder did. Even Charles Lynch a witness who testified against her thinks the handling of her case was not the best. It may have been sufficent to meet the legal requirements but it wasn't the best she could have gotten.

You see I called Darlie days before she was arrested and told her to retain an attorney now, do not wait get legal advice NOW. In the court of public opinion you are already guilty. She said she didn't need one.
Either her personality is so WARPED that she honestly thought she had the whole world FOOLED. Could she really fool all those head shrinks so much so that they could not diagnose this mental disorder even today after the fact.




BTW Darlie always told me she thought I was really smart. If someone who you have previously stated you have the opinion of being smart gives you the advice I gave her why would you ignore it ? If I was guilty and someone I considered smart told me you need an attorney then I would think oh Sh## I'm going to get caught. I would have retained an attorney. My efforts to get away with this isn't working. Isn't that was she is accused of also doing being a good enough actress to fool a lot of people. Was she really so naive she thought innocent people don't need an attorney. Or if guilty why did she ignore the advice or the heads up that she wasn't fooling everyone. It also makes me question myself as to why didn't I see this coming and do something to save those boys? I know hind sight is 20/20 but the standard clues a person gives off wasn't present enough for me to detect. I no longer really trust myself when it comes to judging another persons character I don't seek out making new friends anymore. After all I used to let a convicted child killer babysit MY OWN CHILDREN. Am I that big of a fool the fact that I don't seek out new friends anymore and am very distrustful of people in general unless the relationship is more impersonal like these boards are. Do I really know deep down inside that she did it but can't admit it because it makes me feel responsible somehow? It could also be the additional murders I've seen since the boys too. An old high school friend was murdered and my husband helped put the creep away. His( my husbands) methods were not very moral in his pursuit for Justice,put the police were able to find such irreputable evidence that no one could claim he was innocent. Even if he had a Mama Darlie on his side. A friend who used to rent a shop just down the street from my husbands and employed my daughter on occasion, he had his daughter kidnapped, murdered and then disposed of in our local landfill in a suitcase. That creep was just recently convicted. He confessd and helped them locate the body. I am almost AFRAID to have friends look at what they do or what happens to them. Even if they aren't that close to me they seem to drop like flies around me. I know this is part of God's plan and I'm not in control of these events but it scares me enough because statistically speaking I've known far more people murdered or involved in murders than is supposed to happen unless you are in LE and even then they don't personally know most of the people they end up investigating. I guess my personality likes everything tied up neatly in a box no ugly wrapping paper ends showing. I know alot of posters wonder "where are their heads at when posters support Darlie" Well now everyone knows mine and most likely think I'm crazy or suffering from a bad case of survivors guilt. I guess some dreams die hard. I always thought I could make a positive influence in people's lives when I was younger and less jaded. I thought an open heart and lots of love was the cure to the world's problems, you know live it like Jesus did love all forgive all and be positive in your approach to people and problems nothing is impossible with God's help. I can't help Darlie, I can't prevent my friends from dying bad deaths, but is it really wrong of me to want a better standard for our American Justice system. I still don't feel 100% on Darlies conviction. Yes I saw her whine, pull drama fits, and be a pain in the a@#. I attributed it to teenager anxe. It worries me now when I see stuff like those girls on you tube beating up another girl, The FLDS case bothers me,the missing children of this country bothers me I want Justice but I don't like to hear they were denied any of the rights set up in our Justice system. They are there to protect the innocent as well as the guilty, without them we wouldn't be America. The system is good it is only the human element that makes it faulted sometimes. People are wrongly convicted sometimes. it does happen. We all must admit Mama Darlie is a powerful force and her campaign for Justice has been a long hard fight. If you could have a friend fight for Justice for you I'd elect Mama Darlie - If DarlieLynn ever set into motion anything good in her life I would have to give her case credit for making me treasure my life more, love my family and friends more, treasure the time we have with them and have faith that even in a horrible crime like this one goodness will triumph over evil. Even if everyone here believed she was innocent instead of guilty it would still be part of Gods plan. If you read some of my other posts you will see I'm not exactly a staunch defender just not a total believer in the case as it was presented. A little bit of truth exists in even the biggest of lies and the uncovering of these lies not the ones made by Darlie at trial but in both camps later is what makes me look harder and dig deeper they might give us clues as to what I truly seek answers that leave me feeling JUSTIFIED about Darlie's conviction. Even knowing her as I do I'm trying to forget it and base my observances on the facts. It is really hard to believe in all the facts as presented by Mama Darlie she has an objection to almost everything about Darlie's conviction and she is a reasonably intelligent woman I can't imagine survivors guilt or denial is so strong in her that she is totally off base. Something about this whole case has bothered me right from the start and I just can't nail down EXACTLY what it is so I have explored everything I could and when I recently ran across some info about lies Darin told, it set that hamster wheel in my brain going and I have to force myself to go spelunking in the depths of my own heart and look where it hurts to look and come to a conclusion I can honestly say I know for certain. It wasn't until they were gone that I really understood how much I truly loved those boys. This is going to take a lot of courage on my part and I don't feel afraid of thinking Darlie did it. I just want that courage to give me peace as well. This case truly haunts my heart.

 

[whitywendy]

You were not quoting the bond hearing you were quoting another poster.

[FONT=&quot]Please do not tell me where YOU think I obtained my info. I noticed that you stated you have been away for awhile from here, I suggest you go back and read my posts because you are pretty much more or less calling me a liar. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]:liar:. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] I also suggest you go back and read the Bond Hearing before you try to insult someone else's posts.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-05.php
[/FONT]
24 Q. While that tape was being played, I
25 noticed that the defendant was crying quite heavily, and

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 330


1 how many meetings did you have with this defendant, prior
2 to her arrest?
3 A. Well, it was several.
4 Q. Did you ever see her cry like that?
5 A. I saw her act, I never saw any tears.
6 Q. Okay. Well, I saw tears today. I'm
7 asking you. Did you ever see a tear come out of her eyes
8 during any of the meetings that you had with her, prior to
9 her arrest?
10 A. No, sir.
13 Q. She seemed to be okay with what had
14 happened?
15 A. Well, I'm not sure exactly how to
16 describe it. She was -- I mean, she was not just broken
17 down crying or anything about it.
18 Q. Is that what you expected?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. I'm sorry?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. It is?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. Well, how was she acting?
25 A. Well, I mean she was not crying. I


Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 253


[FONT=&quot]1 mean, she was upset, but she was not just broken down
2 crying, and I remember her saying something about, you
3 know, how could anybody do this to her children.
4 Q. Did that seem like an appropriate
5 statement to you?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. But you expected her to be
8 broken down crying; is that right?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Okay. Did that seem suspicious to you
11 at that time?
12 A. Well, I think it was just all of it
13 together, when you start looking at it, yes, sir.

As for the rest of your post...... [/FONT]

 

[whitywendy]

GI - I am not going to quote your lengthly post, however I would like to comment.

1st of all if you and the Darlie clan were so close, where were you when the trial started? Why weren't you called to the stand as a witness for Darlie or the prosecution for that matter since you were so privy to her life before the murders. If you were/are as close as you state you were then doesn't common sense tell you that YOU would of been with the Darlie Clan immediately after the murders, supporting and consoling one of your closest friends? Esp. with the magnitude of the crime. If you are so close then why are you just finding out the "lies" that Darin told that have been on the internet for years? I am sorry about the bluntness of my questions but some of your posts leave me so .

Why didn't Darlie's clan release the graveside video showing her CRYING prior to the Silly String clip? This would of certainly swayed the jurors, who have been accused of convicting her of her actions from the Silly String clip. IF this tape existed then I believe Mother Darlie would of played that clip immediately after everyone placed her guilt all on this Silly String clip.

My best friend was murdered, she had come to me many times after her boyfriend abused her telling me what had happened but not really wanting my help. I tried and talked till I was blue in the face but she returned. One week later he killed her. I miss her so but I do not feel guilty because there was nothing I could do to prevent that event from happening. The signs were subtle. So don't harbor any guilt over someone else's actions. We harbor enough guilt of own that we don't need to weigh ourselves down with other people's stupid mistakes.

 

[Mary456]

Why does Charlie not count?

Because he claimed he didn't see photos of Darlie's bruises, even though they were shown to the jury. Because the defense played head games with him after the trial. PR move for Darlie's appeal.

But let's back up. You said jurors convicted on the silly string tape. Jurors...more than one. Please name them. No need to worry about confidentiality, because every juror's name is listed in the transcript.

Out with it, my friend!

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I have decided because of all the he-said she said-info to start over and look at everything from the beginning to end. Just because Charlie gave information to the defense doesn't mean he is wrong. Don't be so dead set you are right that the truth can escape your radar screen. I give this advice because that is what I did.
I'm sure once the trial was over that anyone who sat on that jury would rather just forget it. They did their jury duty, they came to a conclusion, and then they got to go home. Charlie never had a gun placed to his head to get him to talk about what happened. Mama Darlie has worked really hard to try and make sense out of something that didn't make sense to her or others who knew Darlie. Something has always bothered me about this case and each and EVERY piece of infomation gained during the investigation done before and after the trial is vital to understanding what happened. I have given up trying to put blame on this person or that for Darlie's conviction. It happened, it may/maybe not be the correct verdict.

The info from Charlie about the videos ( it is the videos he comments about not photos) is somewhat twisted here. I do believe he said he never saw the pre-silly string memorial and that the jury watched the silly string video many times. I won't throw out his observations or sworn statements it is important. I won't throw out the prosecutions side either it also has a lot of important information too. I have given up having an agenda. I haven't spoken to Darlie Kee in about 2 years. No falling out no arguments I just backed off and figured she had her hands full and didn't need me to help unless I could discover something new and unknown.

My original stance was so die hard Darlie is innocent that I ignored certain things . I can understand Some of Darlie's story changing or being elaborated on. If I was attacked (like Darlie claims) I think I would be very confused and not quite able to comprehend what happened either.

The things that have come to light now that really make me mad at Darlie and Darin even if she is innocent as claimed -she had no reason to protect Darin from being accused.
The truth is the truth and even if it looks bad or paints someone in a bad light it might not turn out that way in the end. The truth should not be feared if you are innocent.
In a police investigation a person should not fear the truth after all isn't it a common expression "The truth will set you free".
I have been reading the post here and noticed something posted in the different versions of Darlie's stories.
The 911 tapes that Darlie's defense team had her enhance with what she said.
Notice her adversion to the word fight
She claims she said fright. Doesn't make sense here fright or frightened doesn't make sense in the context of what she is saying. If you are frightened you don't follow the perp into the garage.
Once again this new info about this fight they had before going to bed means more and more everyday.
It seems Darlie was willing to withhold information which IMO is downright stupid.
Do you guys see a pattern here. One lie to cover up information, then another to cover up the 1st lie you told giant snow balling effect.
Darlie figures she must protect Darin, if she did it (the murders) she knows it. Why be willing to go so far as protect someone else, you know you did it so why cover up something that makes someone else look guilty. You know you did it and if you acted alone who are you protecting? An innocent party doesn't need protection.
Wouldn't it make more sense to shift blame somewhere-anywhere else.
Example: You know you are guilty, anyone else being accused (an innocent person) would be found innocent in a trial more likely than not.
This serves your own purpose to get away with it. You don't really worry about someone else being on trial for something they didn't commit because you know you, yourself as the guilty party. Even if the other person is convicted your own interests have been served to get away with it.

The lies or maybe lies isn't the right word here the withholding of information is what has angered me the most. The investigation might have gone completely different if the two of them had been 100% honest about EVERYTHING.

 

[Kitty5001]

WOW to GIRattlesnakeJane:

BTW the Wal-Mart employee I vented at was 100% wrong but tearing down her job skills would not help her become a better customer service rep. She now hugs me everytime she sees me because I apologized for my anger and asked her nicely to do the best she could the next time a similar situation came up. Thank God an angel on my shoulder took my pride away and whispered to my heart - God loves her too.

I have to say off topic that the above is one of those startling revelations I have read in a while that makes you stop and think. We are so easy to jump to attack people's actions, thank you for reminding us that we should be putting our pride aside and reconize that we all make mistakes and no one is perfect.

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

GI - I am not going to quote your lengthly post, however I would like to comment.

1st of all if you and the Darlie clan were so close, where were you when the trial started? Why weren't you called to the stand as a witness for Darlie or the prosecution for that matter since you were so privy to her life before the murders. If you were/are as close as you state you were then doesn't common sense tell you that YOU would of been with the Darlie Clan immediately after the murders, supporting and consoling one of your closest friends? Esp. with the magnitude of the crime. If you are so close then why are you just finding out the "lies" that Darin told that have been on the internet for years? I am sorry about the bluntness of my questions but some of your posts leave me so .

Why didn't Darlie's clan release the graveside video showing her CRYING prior to the Silly String clip? This would of certainly swayed the jurors, who have been accused of convicting her of her actions from the Silly String clip. IF this tape existed then I believe Mother Darlie would of played that clip immediately after everyone placed her guilt all on this Silly String clip.

Mama Darlie didn't even know THE CRYING PART existed TILL AFTER HER DAUGHTER WAS CONVICTED it has been hard for her or anyone else to gain access to all the crime scene evidence collected. The prosecution knew the tape existed because they had it made not Mama Darlie. Darlie's defense is only given access to what evidence the prosecution is going to USE AT TRIAL, they did not plan to use that part so Mulder had no access. not everything they collect. Even He is only given access to what they are going to use. Even if you don't believe she is innocent look at the Darlie web sites where an explanation of how a trial is run it may give you a better idea of how a defense and prosecution work.

Prosecutors can't be called to take the witness stand if it were possible the defense lawyer when he is trying to rebut testimony, could have asked Toby- Do you have any evidence that Darlie was upset and crying before the party. The people who he could question about it the detectives took the 5th why do you think them taking the 5th became such an issue with the Darlie supporters. Mulder didn't know who else he could call to rebut the tape because besides the detectives and the prosecutors how could he know who else had viewed the entire tape. He was very effectively cut off by the detectives taking the 5th, and was unable to be able to rebut the witnesses and enter into evidence that part of the tape. Even if the tape didn't exist and the detectives only watched the party as to what they saw and heard.The defense could then have rebutted them by asking what happened before the party. The way the prosecution handled the case guaranteed them a conviction. Personally I would hate to be Toby Shook's enemy he is very good at playing the legal game. A trial is not a place to seek truth and ferret out all the details that is called an investigation. A trial is a place where guilt or innocence is decided.

I think I'm not sure but a defense lawyer has to ask for specific pieces of evidence not just gimme all you got. Any legal experts here who can answer that question speak up.

My best friend was murdered, she had come to me many times after her boyfriend abused her telling me what had happened but not really wanting my help. I tried and talked till I was blue in the face but she returned. One week later he killed her. I miss her so but I do not feel guilty because there was nothing I could do to prevent that event from happening. The signs were subtle. So don't harbor any guilt over someone else's actions. We harbor enough guilt of own that we don't need to weigh ourselves down with other people's stupid mistakes.

When the new broke I didn't even know it was Darlie and her sons until another set of friends said Yes that was Darlie. Darlie is the child of one of my friends- Mama Darlie I was 17 and Darlie was 6 when I met her. I wasn't asked to testify as a witness by either side. The last time I saw her and the boys was on Halloween at Sam's club. I couldn't even afford to go to the funeral, airfare was too much . We only had one car to get 2 people to work and I couldn't take it and leave my hubby stranded, I live in Lubbock, I tried to make arrangements with another set of friends going but they had no room in their vehicle for me. I did call her to express my sympathy, apologize for my absence and let her know she could call on us if she needed us. Mr GI.R knew her about a 1 year longer than I did. We all met because we all lived in the same apartment complex. Darlie's mom and then husband Denny have remained our close friends thru the years despite their divorce we are friends with both people still. I didn't have a big elaborate wedding and Darlie and Darlie Lynn are some of the few guests who attended it besides our immediate families. They and another couple were the only non relatives I and MR. GI.R invited. We called Darlie- Darlie Lynn back then so we could tell the 2 Darlie's apart. Dana is close in age to my oldest a daughter and they often played together. Danielle and my boys didn't play much together cause they were girls and my boys didn't like playing with a bunch of girls-3 of them when we all got together to play cards or watch movies. Darlie Lynn would intercede (she could tell when they had enough of the girls games and girly stuff they hated) on their behalf and she entertained my sons and they adored her she was their favorite babysitter. She got married she moved away
When she had boys of her own I thought she is so good with kids especially boys I'm glad the Lord gave her a houseful of them.

Lastly Darlie's supporters are not a clan. A CLAN is more like the now in the news FLDS members, her supporters are real people just like you and me .

I am SINCERELY sorry to hear about your friend who was murdered but unlike Devon and Damon she chose to go back and put herself in danger by doing so. The boys however didn't get to make any choice or decisions about their lives. Even if Darlie is executed guilty or innocent her life will not have been totally unlived, and her death won't be nearly as painful as theirs was. Maybe I should make it clear I seek a closer understanding of what Justice for Damon and Devon is. I don't think we got a full picture of what happened that night.

Darn I did it again and answered in the middle part of your post. I made my comments in bold where they appear in the middle of your post cause I don't have the energy to rewrite it word for word and I don't know how to move it. Darn it where are my computer literate children when I need them. No movies on the VCR no Tivo tonite. I have learned one thing be proud of me if my TV is not getting a good picture you don't jam a hanger with foil on it into the antenna slot you just call the cable company and they will replace the cable where your son's dog pulled it off the outside wall and nicked it.

 

[Mary456]

The info from Charlie about the videos (it is the videos he comments about not photos)

American Justice, 2001:

Charlie: "There were a lot of photos we didn't see. We didn't see those pictures in the trial."

Mulder: "I don't know why he didn't see the pictures, because they were shown."

Wouldn't it make more sense to shift blame somewhere-anywhere else.

Darlie tried that with her intruder story. Didn't work out too well for her.

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

To be honest, I was leaning toward guilt from the very first book I read (Hush Little Babies), but did not make up my mind - and udethis is the truth - until I read the transcript.

I've been discussing the West Memphis 3 on another board, and it's shocking how many people think they're innocent because of a made-for-TV movie. Forget the evidence and testimony, or the burden of having to READ the actual court documents. Entertainment, please!

Granted, some of them are young & naive, but some are old enough to know better

Maturity isn't an number, I know a 12 year old with more maturity and understanding of the world than some 50 year olds have

I wasn't very mature when I got married and I wasn't very mature when I became a parent. My children have helped to raise me as well as I them.

I started on the path of maturity when I realized being wrong didn't make me a bad person and I must let go of ego and pride.
Education doesn't end at high school or when a college degree or professional license is achieved.
I became more mature when I realized I couldn't control a lot of the events going on around me, I could only control my responses to them. That was a real hard one to learn for me.

I'm still growing up and when I die the rest of up will only be a short journey cause Jesus and Our Heavenly Father lifted me up so high during life.

Live Well, Love Much, Give aid and supplication to even your enemy I'm only now learning what this really means.

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

American Justice, 2001:

Charlie: "There were a lot of photos we didn't see. We didn't see those pictures in the trial."

Mulder: "I don't know why he didn't see the pictures, because they were shown."



Darlie tried that with her intruder story. Didn't work out too well for her.

I trust more fully what I found in a Sworn statement on the video.
I Googled his name to find it.

It is in his sworn statement that he said the jury looked at the tape repeatedly.
Maybe I have hamstrung myself because of my Trust of info issues.
I don't trust the TV shows, statements made by either side outside of a courtroom setting because there is no real repercussions if either side lies and each side has an agenda.
I don't care what their agenda is just the truth. Kinda an attitude of put your money where your mouth is.
I also don't want anyone pulling my passion for truth in one direction or another, In God and God only will I Trust so totally that the truth escapes me.

I am using and trusting in the trial transcripts, the crime scene photos, and sworn statements made by all ( either side) after the trial. Making a false statement on such an affadafit surely has legal repercussions.

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Morning everyone!

If you stand back and look at simple facts:

1. Criminals, especially a muderer does not come unprepared. They come with their own weapons of choice. How would he have cut the screen to beging with??? Simple but true.

Not always as John Douglas the famous FBI investigator found in a case he worked and then wrote about. This is the best I remember from the book and I found it in the public library. His book that his.
He almost arrested a man for murdering his wife when at the last minute new evidence came to light. The real killer was found and he HAD to know why this man used a knife from the home. The guilty man was interviewed and told how he learned while serving time for something else that bringing a weapon to the crime shows premeditation and the perp will automatically get more time as they will be charged with a more severe crime. Mr Douglas referred to this prison education as Jail House University.

I'm also trying to cut out part of your post and I think I may have this figured out. I wrapped your post that I needed with code. Lets see if this works. It has to be better than a wire hanger with foil on it.

 

[enigma]

Morning everyone!

If you stand back and look at simple facts:

1. Criminals, especially a muderer does not come unprepared. They come with their own weapons of choice. How would he have cut the screen to beging with??? Simple but true.

Not always as John Douglas the famous FBI investigator found in a case he worked and then wrote about. This is the best I remember from the book and I found it in the public library. His book that his.
He almost arrested a man for murdering his wife when at the last minute new evidence came to light. The real killer was found and he HAD to know why this man used a knife from the home. The guilty man was interviewed and told how he learned while serving time for something else that bringing a weapon to the crime shows premeditation and the perp will automatically get more time as they will be charged with a more severe crime. Mr Douglas referred to this prison education as Jail House University.

I'm also trying to cut out part of your post and I think I may have this figured out. I wrapped your post that I needed with code. Lets see if this works. It has to be better than a wire hanger with foil on it.

I have always wondered about the 2nd knife. From the forensics I have read there was only blood of Darlie and Damon on the knife but none from Devon. Was there a 2nd knife???? I kinda think so. Then there is the issue of Darlie saying she had touched the knife....while listening to the 911 call I only hear her say this AFTER the 911 operator tells her not to touch anything.
JMHO

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I have always wondered about the 2nd knife. From the forensics I have read there was only blood of Darlie and Damon on the knife but none from Devon. Was there a 2nd knife???? I kinda think so. Then there is the issue of Darlie saying she had touched the knife....while listening to the 911 call I only hear her say this AFTER the 911 operator tells her not to touch anything.
JMHO

The wound widths are different too. I think dasgal explained it best and I eventually gave up on that idea, It was surmised if someone got the original knife and tested the tang ( inside the handle) that blood would be found there.
Lots of jokes about breaking into the evidence room went around.
Dasgal challenged my educational experience in blood cast off and I left to do MY RESEARCH.
I went to several internet sites (these sites are for professionals to further their expertise) and self educated myself.
One of the pro-Darlie sites says the cast off was not DNA tested but correct me if I'm wrong- didn't someone testify that both boys blood was found in the cast off drops.
If NOT tested how do we know for CERTAIN that the blood didn't come from one child and is it possible that it got on her shirt when Darin was doing artificial breathing. That would also leave the distinctive shape (kinda tear drop shaped) the blood would have RESEMBLED cast off.

It was the size of the drops that intrigued me. They were small so they would have been cast off closer to the end of the arc than at the beginning.

We all admired Dr. Henry Lee at the time ( he has been tied to some shady testimony in a few cases he worked on now) and everyone agreed both sides, that he would be an ideal candidate to look at the blood evidence. Not now I guess.

That is what has been frustrating for BOTH sides here. The state has no reason to retest anything, they don't second guess after a conviction. State taxpayers would be very alarmed and rightfully so if the State spent money on this kind of stuff after a conviction has been achieved.

I have found in my own life experiences that when frustrated about anything it is best to walk away and let that feeling subside, it only interfers with my ability to find the correct path to follow.

Mr. R. wants to go Crappie fishing this weekend and so do I. He gave me a Cabella's camp kitchen for Christmas and I can't convince him to spend the night, my motive I want to play with the new toy that Santa gave me.

Oh well we both love the outdoors and I know a camping trip will be in my future I'll just have to be patient. Food always tastes better outside.

Y"all have a good weekend too and so something you find relaxing and enjoyable.

 

[Mary456]

I have always wondered about the 2nd knife. From the forensics I have read there was only blood of Darlie and Damon on the knife but none from Devon. Was there a 2nd knife????

No.

Then there is the issue of Darlie saying she had touched the knife....while listening to the 911 call I only hear her say this AFTER the 911 operator tells her not to touch anything.
JMHO

Ummm, no. Darlie mentions the knife first.

 

[enigma]

Ummm, no. Darlie mentions the knife first.

Let me rephrase that....she doesn't mention touching the knife untill after the 911 operator says not to touch anything.....

Mary, what the heck ever happened to Savannah and Bambi Lynn? Or did I ask you that already?

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Let me rephrase that....she doesn't mention touching the knife untill after the 911 operator says not to touch anything.....

Mary, what the heck ever happened to Savannah and Bambi Lynn? Or did I ask you that already? [/quote

I copied the transcripts here.

Transcript created by Barry Dickey
(*This transcript was done after the state &quotenhanced" the recording and is not accurate)

Time ID Conversation/Sounds

00:00:00 911 Operator #1 ...Rowlett 911...what is your emergency..
00:01:19 Darlie Routier ...somebody came here...they broke in...
00:03:27 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am...
00:05:11 Darlie Routier ...they just stabbed me and my children...
00:07:16 911 Operator #1 ...what...
00:08:05 Darlie Routier ...they just stabbed me and my kids...my little boys...
00:09:24 911 Operator #1 ...who...who did...
00:11:12 Darlie Routier ...my little boy is dying...
00:11:25 RADIO ...(unintelligible) clear...
00:13:07 911 Operator #1 ...hang on ...hang on... hang on
00:15:03 Darlie Routier ...hurry... (unintelligible)...
00:16:01 911 Operator #1 ...stand by for medical emergency
00:18:11 Darlie Routier ...ma'am...
00:18:19 911 Operator #1 ...hang on ma'am...
00:21:26 Darlie Routier ...ma'am...
00:23:00 911 Operator #1 ...unknown medical emergency... 5801 Eagle Drive...
00:24:00 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
00:26:24 Darlie Routier ...ma'am...
00:27:12 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am... I'm trying to get an ambulance to you... hang on a minute...
00:28:20 RADIO ...(siren)...
00:29:13 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...my babies are dying...
00:30:12 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
00:31:09 911 Operator #1 ...what's going on ma'am...
00:32:13 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) ...oh my God...
00:33:49 RADIO ...(tone - signal broadcast)...
00:34:01 Background Voice ...(unintelligible)...
00:35:20 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) thought he was dead ...oh my God...
00:39:08 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
00:39:29 Darlie Routier ...I don't even know (unintelligible)...
00:40:22 911 Operator #1 ...attention 901 unknown medical emergency 5801...
00:42:23 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
00:43:15 Darlie Routier ...I don't even know (unintelligible)...
00:44:04 911 Operator #1 ...Eagle Drive ...Box 238 ...cross street Linda Vista and Willowbrook ...attention 901 medial emergency...
00:49:28 Darlie Routier ...who was breathing...
00:40:10 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
00:51:15 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) are they still laying there (unintelligible)...
00:51:19 911 Operator #1 ...may be possible stabbing ...5801 Eagle Drive ...Box 238 ...cross street Linda Vista and Willowbrook...
00:55:06 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...what do we do...
00:57:17 911 Operator #1 ...time out 2:32...
00:58:26 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
00:58:28 911 Operator #1 ...stamp me a card Clint...
01:01:02 911 Operator #1 ...80...
01:01:16 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
01:02:13 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
01:03:05 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
01:04:07 911 Operator #1 ...need units going towards 5801 Eagle Drive ...5801 Eagle Drive
01:04:07 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...my baby's dead...
01:07:08 Darlie Routier ...Damon ...hold on honey...
01:08:11 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
01:08:22 911 Operator #1 ...hysterical female on the phone...
01:10:03 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible)...
01:10:10 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
01:10:26 911 Operator #1 ...says her child has been stabbed
01:11:28 Darlie Routier ...I saw them Darin...
01:12:21 Darin Routier ...oh my God ...(unintelligible) ...came in here...
01:14:10 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...I need you to calm down and talk to me...
01:14:24 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
01:16:25 Darlie Routier ...ok...
01:16:26 SOUND ...(unintelligible)...
01:17:12 911 Operator #1 ...twice Clint...
01:18:26 Darlie Routier ...didn't you get my address...
01:20:19 911 Operator #1 ...5801 Eagle...
01:22:00 Darlie Routier ...yes ...we need help...
01:22:03 RADIO ...(unintelligible) will be enroute code...
01:24:20 Darlie Routier ...Darin ...I don't know who it was...
01:24:23 911 Operator #1 ...2:33 code...
01:26:15 Darlie Routier ...we got to find out who it was...
01:27:12 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am...
01:28:04 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am listen ...listen to me...
01:29:27 Darlie Routier ...yes ...yes ...(unintelligible)...
01:30:23 RADIO ...(unintelligible) I'm clear ...do you need anything...
01:32:08 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
01:32:20 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
01:34:00 911 Operator #1 ...(unintelligible)...
01:34:22 911 Operator #1 ...do you take the radio Clint...
01:35:23 911 Operator #2 ...yes...
01:36:12 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
01:36:25 911 Operator #1 ...I...ma'am...
01:38:03 Darlie Routier ...yes...
01:38:17 911 Operator #1 ...I need you to ...
01:38:23 RADIO ...(unintelligible) start that way (unintelligible)... will revise...
01:39:28 911 Operator #1 ...I need you to talk to me...
01:41:21 Darlie Routier ...what ...what ...what...
01:44:25 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
01:44:28 Darlie Routier ...my babies are dead (unintelligible)...
01:46:20 RADIO ...go ahead and start that way ...siren code 4 ...advise...
01:47:10 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible)...
01:48:03 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) do you want honey ...hold on (unintelligible)...
01:49:17 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...I can't understand you...
01:50:21 Darlie Routier ...yes...
01:51:18 911 Operator #1 ...you're going to have to slow down ...calm down ...and talk to me...
01:52:19 Darlie Routier ...I'm talking to my babies ...they're dying...
01:55:03 911 Operator #1 ...what is going on...
01:56:29 Darlie Routier ...somebody came in while I was sleeping ...me and my little boys were sleeping downstairs...
02:02:00 RADIO ...(unintelligible) I'll be clear...
02:02:20 Darlie Routier ...some man ...came in ...stabbed my babies ...stabbed me ...I woke up ...I was fighting ...he ran out through the garage ...threw the knife down ...my babies are dying ...they're dead ...oh my God...
02:14:23 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...stay on the phone with me...
02:16:11 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
02:17:06 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
02:17:29 911 Operator #1 ...what happened (unintelligible) dispatch 901...
02:20:15 Darlie Routier ...hold on honey ...hold on...
02:22:01 911 Operator #1 ...(unintelligible) who was on (unintelligible)...
02:22:26 911 Operator #2 ...it was (unintelligible) the white phone...
02:23:08 Darlie Routier ...hold on...
02:25:26 911 Operator #2 ...they were wondering when we need to dispatch ...so I sent a double team...
02:25:28 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...oh my God...
02:28:08 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...thanks...
02:28:21 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
02:29:20 SOUND ...(unintelligible)...
02:30:01 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
02:30:20 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am...
02:31:06 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
02:31:14 911 Operator #1 ...who's there with you...
02:32:15 Darlie Routier ...Karen ...(unintelligible)...
02:33:15 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am...
02:34:06 Darlie Routier ...what...
02:38:11 911 Operator #1 ...is there anybody in the house ...besides you and your children...
02:38:11 Darlie Routier ...no ...my husband he just ran downstairs ...he's helping me ...but they're dying ...oh my God ...they're dead...
02:43:24 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...ok ...how many little boys ...is it two boys...
02:46:06 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
02:46:25 Darlie Routier ...there's two of 'em ...there's two...
02:48:18 RADIO ...what's the cross street on that address on Eagle...
02:50:15 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...who would do this...
02:53:13 911 Operator #1 ...(unintelligible) listen to me ...calm down ...(unintelligible)...
02:53:21 Darlie Routier ...I feel really bad ...I think I'm dying...
02:55:06 RADIO ...228...
02:56:06 911 Operator #1 ...go ahead...
02:58:12 RADIO ...(unintelligible) address again (unintelligible)...
02:59:12 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
02:59:22 Darlie Routier ...when are they going to be here...
03:00:22 911 Operator #1 ...5801 Eagle Drive ...5801 Eagle Drive...
03:03:28 Darlie Routier ...when are they going to be here...
03:03:29 911 Operator #1 ...going to be a stabbing...
03:05:20 Darlie Routier ...when are they going to be here...
03:06:20 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...they're on their way...
03:08:00 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
03:08:08 Darlie Routier ...I gotta just sit here forever ...oh my God...
03:11:14 911 Operator #1 ...2:35...
03:12:05 Darie Routier ...who would do this ...who would do this...
03:13:09 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible)...
03:14:26 911 Operator #1 ...(sounds of typing on computer keyboard)...
03:16:08 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...how old are your boys...
03:18:20 Darin Routier ...what...
03:19:03 911 Operator #1 ...how old are your boys...
03:20:04 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
03:20:21 911 Operator #1 ...no...
03:21:01 Darlie Routier ...seven and five...
03:22:17 911 Operator #1 ...ok...
03:23:08 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...oh my God ...oh ...he's dead...
03:29:02 911 Operator #1 ...calm down ...can you...
03:29:03 Darlie Routier ...oh God ...Devon no ...oh my God...
03:30:27 SOUND ...(dog barking)...
03:35:02 911 Operator #1 ...is your name Darlie...
03:36:11 Darlie Routier ...yes...
03:36:26 911 Operator #1 ...this is her...
03:37:09 911 Operator #1 ...is your husband's name Darin...
03:38:22 Darlie Routier ...yes ...please hurry ...God they're taking forever...
03:41:20 911 Operator #1 ...there's nobody in your house ...there was ...was...
03:44:05 911 Operator #1 ...you don't know who did this...
03:45:19 Police Officer ...look for a rag...
03:46:11 Darlie Routier ...they killed our babies...
03:48:03 Police Officer ...lay down ...ok ...just sit down ...(unintelligible)
03:51:11 911 Operator #1 ...(sounds of typing on computer keyboard)...
03:52:13 Darlie Routier ...no ...he ran out ...uh ...they ran out in the garage ...I was sleeping...
03:54:09 911 Operator #1 ...(unintelligible)...
03:56:19 Darlie Routier ...my babies over here already cut ...can I (unintelligible)...
03:59:29 Darin Routier ...(unintelligible) phone is right there...
04:01:28 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible)...
04:03:01 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
04:05:02 Darlie Routier ...ya'll look out in the garage ...look out in the garage ...they left a knife laying on...
04:08:21 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
04:09:19 911 Operator #1 ...there's a knife ...don't touch anything...
04:11:18 Darlie Routier ...I already touched it and picked it up...
04:12:05 RADIO ...10-4...
04:15:20 911 Operator #1 ...who's out there ...is anybody out there...
04:16:07 Police Officer ...(unintelligible)...
04:17:06 Darlie Routier ...I don't know ...I was sleeping...
04:18:14 911 Operator #1 ...ok ma'am ...listen ...there's a police officer at your front door ...is your front door unlocked...
04:22:11 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
04:22:15 Darlie Routier ...yes ma'am ...but where's the ambulance...
04:24:21 911 Operator #1 ...ok...
04:24:23 Darlie Routier ...they're barely breathing...
04:26:17 Darlie Routier ...if they don't get it here they're gonna be dead ...my God they're (unintelligible) ...hurry ...please hurry...
04:31:13 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...they're ...they're...
04:32:18 Police Officer ...what about you...
04:33:06 911 Operator #1 ...is 82 out on Eagle...
04:34:18 Darlie Routier ...huh...
04:35:12 Darin Routier ...they took (unintelligible) ...they ran (unintelligible)...
04:36:28 911 Operator #2 ...(unintelligible)...
04:37:08 Darlie Routier ...we're at Eagle ...5801 Eagle ...my God and hurry...
04:41:03 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
04:41:22 911 Operator #1 ...82 ...are you out...
04:42:25 Police Officer ...nothing's gone Mrs. Routier...
04:44:10 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...oh my God ...why would they do this...
04:48:03 RADIO ...(unintelligible) to advise (unintelligible) 200...
04:50:18 Police Officer ...(unintelligible) the problem Mrs. Routier...
04:50:21 911 Operator #1 ...what'd he say...
04:51:29 Darlie Routier ...why would they do this...
04:53:08 Darlie Routier ...I'm (unintelligible)...
04:54:07 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...listen ma'am ...need to ...need to let the officers in the front door ...ok...
04:59:11 Darlie Routier ...what...
05:00:04 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am..
05:00:22 Darlie Routier ...what ...what...
05:01:15 911 Operator #1 ...need to let the police officers in the front door...
05:04:21 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) his knife was lying over there and I already picked it up...
05:08:19 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...it's alright ...it's ok...
05:09:20 Darlie Routier ...God ...I bet if we could have gotten the prints maybe ...maybe...
05:13:18 Police Officer ...(unintelligible)...
05:14:18 RADIO ...82 ...we'll be (unintelligible)...
05:17:12 Darlie Routier ...ok ...it'll be...
05:18:08 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...hang on ...hang on a second...
05:19:09 Darlie Routier ...somebody who did it intentionally walked in here and did it Darin...
05:20:19 911 Operator #1 ...82 ...10-9...
05:21:23 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
05:22:28 911 Operator #1 ...received...
05:23:05 Darlie Routier ...there's nothing touched...
05:24:12 911 Operator #1 ...ok ma'am...
05:25:13 Darlie Routier ...there's nothing touched...
05:26:20 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
05:28:00 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
05:29:08 Police Officer ...(unintelligible)...
05:29:23 RADIO ...received...
05:31:19 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
05:33:25 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...is the police officer there...
05:35:14 Darlie Routier ...yes (unintelligible)...
05:35:23 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...go talk to him ...ok...
05:38:03 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...

Total length of tape is 5:44:28

Looks like two conversations are going on at the time the knife is 1st mentioned. Darlie does tell the POLICE OFFICER not the 911 operator, since two converstions are going on at once. It is the 911 operator who tells her not to touch it.


Touching the knife was 1st mentioned by the 911 operator.


I did notice that Darlie refers to the knife as belonging to the perp.
She says he threw down HIS knife.

This is pure conjecture on my part but .....
does she mean the knife she says a perp used or that it belongs to the perp.