Did Lisa's Mom do it? Poll

[frankie069]

One thing I wanted to make a note of about the interviews today is that Debbie did NOT maintain the persona of a grieving mother throughout these interviews. The hostile, irresponsible, "only care about myself" attitude did seep through at times. The best way to detect this if you question this is listen to the tone of her voice on some of the responses. You will hear it.

You are right, she is a narcissistic sociopath.. She can be read like a book. Whether she killed that baby or not, of which I do believe she did, this is how she should be classified. Its all about her and she doesnt care. Cry those fake tears, it got CA off, lets hope it doesnt get you off Deb..

 

[lindugh]

Seems odd that the first day the father works a night shift she decides to get blind drunk early in the night. What's to say the father is not involved? He came home and she was passed out. He had access to the house while she was out cold. He could have staged the whole thing. He even went as far as saying the situation has brought them closer as a couple on tv. Strange comment.

I totally agree. JI acts weird and is letting DB do all the talking, like he's trying to let her hang herself. The more info that is coming out, the more I am moving away from DB harming her baby. Wonder where the brother is? I noticed in the supermarket video that when DB goes to pay for the wine, it looks like the brother gives her the money. Also, where is that neighbor and the neighbor's family?

 

[Boytwnmom]

to me. IMO, a parent of a missing child is not self interested, defensive and hostile. This seems simply incompatible with the type of stress and emotion that would overwhelm you under those circumstances.

Similarly, refusing to let LE question the boys, the only sober potential witnesses to what occurred. To say you're worried about them as the reason is not believable-your concern for the missing child would be infinitely more important than any hypothetical upset the boys might have from being asked questions. Add in the hiring of a defense attorney associated with reviled criminals and I'm not feeling postive about either parent. I begrudge no one an attorney. But, your child is missing and you select this guy-and the word is he was their choice-what a choice-I would refuse his services to prevent being associated with his other clients. Anyway, innocent parents are not worried about themselves-they're worried about their child IF they don't know where the child is or what happened to her. If they know and they're lying to LE, then they're likely concerned about themselves. Employing simple common sense leads me to a sad conclusion.

I hope I'm wrong and they are simply overwhelmed and naive and confused and desparate and are getting terrible advice but are totally innocent.

One thing I wanted to make a note of about the interviews today is that Debbie did NOT maintain the persona of a grieving mother throughout these interviews. The hostile, irresponsible, "only care about myself" attitude did seep through at times. The best way to detect this if you question this is listen to the tone of her voice on some of the responses. You will hear it.

 

[iluvmua]

I gotta say that if she was REALLY interested in finding her child - she would not have waited TWO WEEKS before coming clean AND she would be looking, handing out flyers, begging for the child's return. IMHO she is only attempting to cover her own tracks.

Yep, and for that I hope she goes away for a very very long time.

AND....... If it turns out she did murder Lisa, I hope she gets Life in Prison w/o Parole.

Do they have the DP in Missouri?

 

[panthera]

Until today, I have not wanted to commit to an answer with this poll. However based on the newest revelations regarding the wine consumption, changing the time she last saw Lisa........combined with earlier statements regarding how the house was found (lights on, front door unlocked), etc. I now firmly believe she knows exactly what happened to Lisa. Furthermore, even if DB did not personally harm or kill her daughter, she put her at such great risk by being intoxicated that she is responsible nevertheless.

MOO

 

[bammy]

Any chance of starting a new poll? I need to change my vote after falling off the fence and into the mud. Poor Lisa.

 

[curiousjo]

Wonderng if DB does not want the kids questioned because they know too much. Maybe even told to keep their mouths quiet or lie, otherwise Mom and Dad going to jail.

Regarding kidnapping theory - the kidnapper sure lucked out.
-1st night dad working night shift.
-Mom drunk and passed out.
-Front door unlocked.
-Computer room window open.
-All house lights turned on.
-3 charged cell phones sitting in kitchen.
-Master bedroom loud fan turned on.
-The 2 boys did not wake up.
-Mom did not hear baby monitor noise made by the kidnapper
-Baby did not cry and wake up the entire family - even though she was sick.
-Dog did not bark.
-All bedroom doors closed
-Unseen by neighbors (?)
-Parents could not find phone to call 911 till Dad remembered he had his work phone.

The kidnapper freely walked around the home in the middle of the night without waking anyone, turned on all the lights, found baby in back room, stopped by the kitchen to pick up 3 cell phones. Did he find a backpack ready to go with new baby wipes and baby food too? Its like the kidnapper was a ghost or a figment of DB imagination.

 

[MsMacGyver]

This is my theory for consideration...

LE needs to find out when the last time was that anyone had seen Lisa alive.
LE needs to find out if dad left work early in the week before Lisa is reported missing.
Did dad request night shift?
Who was watching Lisa while mom & brother at store?
LE not allowed to question the two boys anymore.
The only thing missing from the home was the cell phones.
Mom fails test when asked if she knows where Lisa is.
Notice today the issue of searching isn't expressed as much.
Mom changes story, now she was drunk.
Mom changes time she last see's baby Lisa. Who puts her child to bed at 6:30pm and doesn't check on them the rest of the night.
Possible Lisa dies before the day parents report her missing.
Dad might not know anything happened or was there when something happened or was at work when accident occured.
Did dad take polygraph? I've heard conflicting reports. If Lisa died before the day she was reported missing, dad would be at work all night.
Mom possibly protecting the two boys if they were involved in an accident resulting in Lisa's death.
Is mom receiving medical care, drugs to calm her down?


I believe mom knows what happened. She knows where Lisa is. Lisa is dead and likely buried somewhere with meaning to mom...possibly close to home. Possible boys know something or were involved in accident with Lisa resulting in her death. I think the cell phones disappeared because there is evidence on them, phone calls made on certain dates or to specific people. Mom is now saying she was drunk and can't remember events correctly...cover up. I believe it is possible Lisa died in the days before parents report her missing. I think the home was staged.

As more information is released, the picture will become clearer. We know the parents want to keep the two boys away from LE. We know the cell phones are missing. We can speculate the reason mom fails the question of where the baby is because she knows where Lisa is. We can speculate the lawyer involved is preparing his case through media statements. I don't see this mother as a good liar. She's very emotional, I don't believe she will be able to stand up to the pressure, I think she will spill the beans eventually. Today seemed to mark a change in the tide, for me anyway. Moms demeanor has changed drastically. Could be she received some drugs to calm her. The new lawyer seems to have taken control of the situation and is guiding the parents at this point. Mom seems to me to be full of guilt. Moms emotion seems genuine but not hard if baby Lisa did die due to an accident. It doesn't change the fact she has lost a child. It's possible some family members/friends are involved with cover up. Not likely but it is possible. I believe LE knows mom is lying. They will back off until enough evidence is gathered. I just don't see these two as hardened criminals. Mom does alot of talking the first days but looks to her husband alot! I will be surprised if Lisa's death was intentional. What mother lies when reporting her child missing, changes story after lawyer gets involved. Mom seemed to avoid questions from LE as to what else is missing from home the night baby disappears. If one of my kids disappeared from my home I would go through every last detail I could possibly remember that would offer clues to what happened. History unfortunately has shown us the parents who are telling the whole truth tend to put themselves in front of the camera and answer any questions possible to improve the chances of their child being found..

This is just a theory based alot on my emotional response to what I have heard so far from the mom talk and the few details LE is releasing. My theory could and most likely will change as more information comes out. I tend to focus on the beginning, what my gut tells me is genuine and what looks and sounds hinky...jmo

 

[Pacific2011]

One thing I wanted to make a note of about the interviews today is that Debbie did NOT maintain the persona of a grieving mother throughout these interviews. The hostile, irresponsible, "only care about myself" attitude did seep through at times. The best way to detect this if you question this is listen to the tone of her voice on some of the responses. You will hear it.

Yes! Good point!

I noticed it even before today in one interview when I was not looking at the TV screen, but could hear the audio well. (The interview was being replayed.) I was amazed at how collected and normal and undisturbed her voice was when she instantly stopped sobbing and began to respond to the interviewer. She did not miss a beat going from seemingly uncontrollable heart-rending sobs to a perfectly clear, composed voice which revealed no trace of emotion. MOO.

 

[Chewy]

This new "I was drinking, which naturally means I blacked out just like everyone does when they drink" information (not a direct quote BTW) is making me consider another possibility (pure speculation alert). Maybe sick Baby Lisa was crying and one of her brothers tried to wake Mom, but couldn't, so he tried to get her out of the crib and dropped her? Then Mom covered up for the boy (after "sobering up" to some extent from the shock and adrenaline) and convinced him he had to lie, but is afraid to let him talk to the police too much because he might break down and tell what happened.

Somewhat related comment: I think we should distinguish between (1) "drinking" while kids are in the house, which is no big deal really IMO, (2) being "drunk" while caring for sleeping/sick kids, which IMO is negligent and suggests an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and (3) being "blacked out from drinking" while the sole caretaker for a sick infant, which IMO is disgusting and reckless behavior.

WOAH!

This could be it, because if this was the first night that the father worked the late shift, maybe the boy woke up and tried to wake up mom and couldn't wake her and then WENT LOOKING FOR DAD AROUND THE HOUSE and opened all the doors and turned on all the lights. Maybe he tried to figure out how to call dad on the cell phones and then went to pick her up and dropped her. And then the above story ?

The only thing is that I doubt the kid would be able to hold this lie together.

 

[cachmo]

Any chance of starting a new poll? I need to change my vote after falling off the fence and into the mud. Poor Lisa.

Ive fallen off the fence too!!! Anyway to change your vote?

 

[Marah]

I think earlier it was discussed about the height of the crib mattress and came to the conclusion that probably LE had taken everything apart and this is just the way it was put back together. It wasn't necessarily this height when Lisa was in it.

True, plus you can see right next to the crib are the dresser drawers all pile on top of each other, NOT in the dresser. The room is the way it was staged, not how it was actually.

 

[Turnadot]

This new "I was drinking, which naturally means I blacked out just like everyone does when they drink" information (not a direct quote BTW) is making me consider another possibility (pure speculation alert). Maybe sick Baby Lisa was crying and one of her brothers tried to wake Mom, but couldn't, so he tried to get her out of the crib and dropped her? Then Mom covered up for the boy (after "sobering up" to some extent from the shock and adrenaline) and convinced him he had to lie, but is afraid to let him talk to the police too much because he might break down and tell what happened.

Somewhat related comment: I think we should distinguish between (1) "drinking" while kids are in the house, which is no big deal really IMO, (2) being "drunk" while caring for sleeping/sick kids, which IMO is negligent and suggests an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and (3) being "blacked out from drinking" while the sole caretaker for a sick infant, which IMO is disgusting and reckless behavior.

Bold & colour by me.

Agreed. I'll have a glass of wine or two with dinner quite often - three times a week, at least. Just last night I had a martini before dinner with my husband.

I'm not against adults have a drink with sleeping kids in the home; it's the getting plastered that's the problem. I agree with everything you said about that.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I wonder if FCA and visions of Susan Smith et al aren't clouding everyone's vision. I still feel DB didn't do anything to Lisa, and if being drunk at the time her baby goes missing, makes her a murderer, I'm not buying it. I'd be looking very closely at the neighbour and her circle of friends. She knew DB was drinking, and was probably familiar with the layout of the house. I'd have to have a lot more than a few glasses of wine to execute this grieving mother.

I admit the Anthony shame is still very fresh for me but I don't believe it's clouding my vision. My vision is focused on Lisa, whose mother has admitted alcohol blackouts of what happened that night and has said she thinks it is okay because she is entitled to her adult time. It boggles my mind that anyone would consider that the mother's drinking buddy is more suspicious (or responsible for the abduction?) than the mother, herself. I'm certainly not saying that DB is a murderer because she claims she was drunk and had blackouts but, hey there, she is deflecting all responsibility. She appears to be not even honest with herself.

:cow:​

 

[HMSHood]

I am on the fence at this time.

 

[scmom]

From the conflicting comments she's made during interviews it is clear she is guilty of lying. From her own admission she's guilty of drinking to the point she may have blacked out. IF she was soused it would seem she's also guilty of being an unreliable caretaker of three children who were dependent upon her for keeping them safe.
In the end, since baby Lisa was in her care, DB IS responsible for whatever has happened to the baby.
Whether she's guilty of murdering or accidentally killing the baby, I do not know. I do think that the search today, near the school, is most likely where baby Lisa would be found IF DB is the person who hid the child's body.

 

[Marah]

Could the neighbor have taken her and the cell phones and also made a cell phone call to try to make it seem like DB is to blame?

i don't know. I am still on the fence here.

 

[Turnadot]

I admit the Anthony shame is still very fresh for me but I don't believe it's clouding my vision. My vision is focused on Lisa, whose mother has admitted alcohol blackouts of what happened that night and has said she thinks it is okay because she is entitled to her adult time. It boggles my mind that anyone would consider that the mother's drinking buddy is more suspicious (or responsible for the abduction?) than the mother, herself. I'm certainly not saying that DB is a murderer because she claims she was drunk and had blackouts but, hey there, she is deflecting all responsibility. She appears to be not even honest with herself.

:cow:​

I envy that, truly. I don't trust myself right now to *read* this situation at all because of the Anthony case, so I'm on the fence.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

This new "I was drinking, which naturally means I blacked out just like everyone does when they drink" information (not a direct quote BTW) is making me consider another possibility (pure speculation alert). Maybe sick Baby Lisa was crying and one of her brothers tried to wake Mom, but couldn't, so he tried to get her out of the crib and dropped her? Then Mom covered up for the boy (after "sobering up" to some extent from the shock and adrenaline) and convinced him he had to lie, but is afraid to let him talk to the police too much because he might break down and tell what happened.

Somewhat related comment: I think we should distinguish between (1) "drinking" while kids are in the house, which is no big deal really IMO, (2) being "drunk" while caring for sleeping/sick kids, which IMO is negligent and suggests an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and (3) being "blacked out from drinking" while the sole caretaker for a sick infant, which IMO is disgusting and reckless behavior.

This is a really good and thoughtful theory of what may have happened, AZlawyer. But why would she do this? The little boy would never be prosecuted, would he? He's much too young for that ~ and it would have obviously been an accident formed from good intent, right? So why would she do this? Not to cover the fact that she was incapacitated by alcohol ~ because she's already admitted to that. I don't see a motive for this theory but I am slow.

If she's worldly enough to hire JT to represent her, wouldn't she be smart enough to know neither of the boys would have been held legally responsible?

ETA: Please forgive me; the first thing I should have said is how happy I am to see you participating in this forum, AZlawyer!!!!

 

[LisaB]

Is it possible the baby was hurt, and as a result of Deborah's intoxication, she did not notice right away?

If it was an accident, maybe Lisa could have crawled over top rail. Or one of the boys dropped his baby sister while trying to pick her up to calm her when her cries did not wake his mother and Lisa got quiet. Scared he had killed her, he went and got in bed with his mom who woke up around 2 and checked to find Lisa hurt.

Deb may or may not have been sure she did not drop the baby while drunk, since she did not remember HOW Lisa got hurt or ended up on the floor and she got scared. If she was still less than sober, her decisions from that point on were poorly considered.

There was some apparent tension in the home already, some have suggested infidelity, and she may have arranged via 2:30am text/call to hide Lisa to avoid dealing with Jeremy's wrath at finding his baby had fallen and been left to lie on the floor for hours, injured the first time he worked night shift.

(eta - Because her thought process had been impaired by drinking, she somehow thought getting rid of the phone would eliminate proof of the 2am text - if there even was one? - and getting rid of all three would look less suspicious than just one.)

The plan could have been to return her (maybe even claim the reward?) once the bruises/head wound healed, or whatever. Any evidence of the original injury would not be able to be proven to be pre-abduction. Jeremy and the kids would be so happy she was back that all suspicions Deb had "hurt" (i.e. "killed") Lisa would be presumed to have been disproven.

Another possibility might be an abduction by a man who believes Lisa to be his biological child, especially if he felt Deborah was behaving recklessly.