Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

[Sherbert]

...but it's not sufficient to just submit a photograph in evidence without explanation. The judge isn't an investigator or detective by any stretch of the imagination and will not speculate or draw conclusions on what the photograph may or may not be depicting. It was really quite lame for Nel to just submit photographs without any explanation or interpretation as to their meaning or relevance. In essence, he was basically saying 'here are a couple of photographs. Neither SAPS, myself nor any of my legal team are prepared to suggest what they may mean because we don't really know.' If they don't know how on earth do they expect the judge or her assessors to know?

If Masipa gave the photos more than a passing glance I'd be extremely surprised.

I think you are correct about this.

 

[foxbluff]

Hi Z, :wave: I've been keeping an eye on the Rasmaran thread, so glad he was found guilty, such a relief for family and Jennifer's support group that justice has prevailed. Thank you for keeping the tweets coming as you so diligently have done here. I had a few lol moments reading through the thread, Remy's a legend in his own mind. Poor Jen.

I'm sure I read the state objected 25 times while Remy was on the stand 'fighting for his life'? If only OP wasn't treated with such kid gloves, Nel might have actually made progress. Once OP started crying every time Nel asked a difficult question, how on earth could he get to the truth? I felt the courtroom was being manipulated by OP and his bizarre behaviour. jmo

We'll see what sentence JM gives him, I'm not feeling confident, OP got away with the ammo in his safe after all. :facepalm: :cuckoo:

:sigh:

Your mention of the ammo triggered a memory which sent me back to the notes I took from our excellent WS Court reporters in the wee hours of 8/7/14 when Nel gave his HoA.

WS poster 04009margaret(sp?) reported that Oscar Radio announced before Court that morning that OP's father has now provided the DT with an affidavit claiming the ammo was his.

OP's father did happen to be in Court that day. I kept thinking we would hear more about the affidavit, but if it ever came up again, I must have missed it.

I'm not saying such an affidavit would absolve OP of guilt in the matter as I don't think it would. I'm simply curious if any of you heard anymore about the subject.

 

[LemonMousse]

Ha ha...so pedantic AJ! I meant the explanation for the hole made by the air gun. Just called it a bullet 'cos they all are to me!

Yes...when was the air gun fired at the door? That night?

 

[AJ_DS]

Your mention of the ammo triggered a memory which sent me back to the notes I took from our excellent WS Court reporters in the wee hours of 8/7/14 when Nel gave his HoA.

WS poster 04009margaret(sp?) reported that Oscar Radio announced before Court that morning that OP's father has now provided the DT with an affidavit claiming the ammo was his.

OP's father did happen to be in Court that day. I kept thinking we would hear more about the affidavit, but if it ever came up again, I must have missed it.

I'm not saying such an affidavit would absolve OP of guilt in the matter as I don't think it would. I'm simply curious if any of you heard anymore about the subject.

IIRC the alleged affidavit was not entered into evidence nor addressed by Masipa.

The ammo fiasco is unbelievable…

One is found to have a brick of cocaine in his home, in his safe… one claims that the cocaine is not his, that he has never used nor sold cocaine… one claims that an estranged family member placed the cocaine in there… the said family member refuses to testify or give a statement… one is therefore acquitted of possession…. Really ???… it's that simple !?!

 

[AW2B]

I agree… but considering how Masipa simply ignored without reason or explanations elements which contradicted OP's version of events directly and for which neither OP nor the Defence could provide any explanations except an unsubstantiated massive all-emcompassing psychic police tampering conspiracy, I believe the damages would not have made any difference whatsoever.

- The small fan which is in the wrong place
- The small fan which is unplugged
- The small fan which has nowhere to be plugged in

- The large fan which is in the wrong place
- The large fan which cannot reach the location where OP says he placed it
- The large fan which is turned off when it should be turned on

- The hair clipper which is still standing upright on the floor in its charging station plugged into the multi-plug and was never tipped over when moving the fans or searching for Reeva or the cord snagged when exiting onto the balcony, etc…

- The duvet on the floor where the large fan should be
- The duvet stained with a blood trail that goes from the carpet onto the duvet

- The jeans on top of the duvet

- The 0020 phone who was plugged into the kitchen charging cable… when was this done ?… whilst OP was trying to resuscitate Reeva's lifeless body, whilst OP was braying and praying to God, whilst OP was retching over the sight and smell of Reeva's blood that covered his body ??????

… all we know is that in the 30 minutes between OP hung up with Pieter Baba and OP called Justin Divaris, somehow the 0020 phone was plugged in the kitchen…

OP remembers putting the 0020 phone in his pocket after hanging up with Baba… but OP does not remember if he plugged the phone in the kitchen, if someone other than him plugged the phone or even if the phone was actually plugged in…. even if Carice remembers that OP handed her the phone with Divaris on the line and that the phone was indeed plugged in at the time.

Thank you..I agree it would not have made a difference..Masipa was determined to ignore INCRIMINRING evidence to find him not guilty..

 

[AJ_DS]

Ha ha...so pedantic AJ! I meant the explanation for the hole made by the air gun. Just called it a bullet 'cos they all are to me!

Yes...when was the air gun fired at the door? That night?

Did not intend to appear pedantic… sorry

My guess would be it had nothing to do with the events… OP was playing with the air-riffle and fired a shot at the bedroom door for kicks

 

[AJ_DS]

Thank you..I agree it would not have made a difference..Masipa was determined to ignore INCRIMINRING evidence to find him not guilty..

Indeed… I wonder how Reeva's jeans found outside OP's house, under the bathroom window could be explained in OP's version of events ???

… not saying it is necessarily incriminating evidence… but it certainly does not fit in OP's story, does it ?

 

[Sherbert]

Did not intend to appear pedantic… sorry

My guess would be it had nothing to do with the events… OP was playing with the air-riffle and fired a shot at the bedroom door for kicks

Except that the bedroom door did seem to be very badly damaged indeed.

 

[AJ_DS]

Except that the bedroom door did seem to be very badly damaged indeed.

Yes I agree… the bedroom door was most definitely charged whilst being locked.

But that does not mean all of the damages on that door were done that night.

 

[AJ_DS]

One does own a air-riffle without wanting to shoot at something… that's the whole point of owning a gun

One does not go to a shooting range to shoot an air-riflle when one own's a real gun

Considering the kind of person OP is, I can clearly picture him shooting the air-rifle at stuff in his house to see if he can hit them and also to see what happens when he hits them.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

I agree 100%. There’s absolutely no reason he couldn’t have used the bat both before and after the shooting. Considering his rage (look at the bedroom door, bathtub plate and wall tiles damage) it fits perfectly. This would also account for Reeva’s MULTIPLE screams over a period of time.

He knew she locked herself in the toilet ... she was trapped. He was in no real hurry - she obviously wasn’t going anywhere. He threatened/terrorized her by bashing up the bathtub plate, tiles and door, all the while yelling and screaming at her. When she threatened to call the police he couldn’t break down the door fast enough with the bat, so he ran for his gun to immediately STOP her.

Remember this little Freudian slip under Nel’s cross-exam?

''I was scared, I wanted to ask Reeva why ... if she's phoning the police.''
- Oscar Pistorius

April 14 2014 session 3 @16:40 - 17:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l_hle5shsDY#t=1014

My jaw hit the floor when OP said this!! And I was further shocked and appalled that Nel didn't latch onto that tidbit immediately!!!!!!!! FFS

 

[AW2B]

As per timelines, The only thing that can be determined from :

- Mike Nhlegenthwa's evidence is that OP was crying loudly “No, please, no, no” AFTER ~3:15AM (the last bang)

- Eonite Nhlegenthwa's evidence is that OP shouted H-H-H AFTER ~3:15AM (the last bang)

- Carice Stander's evidence is that OP shouted H-H-H BEFORE 3:19:03AM (phone call to Stander)

- Rica Motshuane's evidence is that OP was crying loudly AFTER 3:22:27AM

… all these Defence witnesses provide information AFTER the last bang of the SECOND set of bangs AND they cannot contribute any information to events in question.

None of this evidence can corroborate nor refute OP's version of events as per what happened BEFORE the last bang of the second set of bangs, which is the crux of the case.

Basically, these Defence witnesses ALL provide information AFTER Reeva was already shot 3 times regardless if you believe the gunshots or the bat-strikes were first or second.

… so how on earth can the evidence from these witnesses contradict the evidence from Dr. Stipp, Mrs. Stipp, Johnson and Burger who witnessed what happened BEFORE the last bang of the SECOND set of bangs, ie. BEFORE Reeva was shot ??????????

IIRC...Dr. Stipp heard the shots then couple of minutes later he heard what is believed to be the sound of the bat striking the toilet door..am right?

 

[AJ_DS]

Justice will not be served no matter the sentence handed down by Masipa.

When so many lay people, experts, attorneys, former judges, etc… that have followed this Trial come to the conclusion that Masipa made flagrant errors both in facts and law… and that she sidestepped much evidence without any reason or explanation, an appeal is mandatory IMO.

 

[AJ_DS]

IIRC...Dr. Stipp heard the shots then couple of minutes later he heard what is believed to be the sound of the bat striking the toilet door..am right?

No… Dr. Stipp heard 2 set of "shots"… the first set woke him up, the second set was minutes afterwards when he was already awake… he believed that both sets were gunshots

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Race horse trainer Mike Azzie, a close friend of Oscar Pistorius, said he warned the Paralympian to “settle down with a plain Jane like his mother as the Barbie dolls would get him into trouble, but he didn’t listen”.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-is-a-gentle-guy-says-friend-1.1471752

“You know, we are men, we are guys,” Mr. Lerena said. “People go out and have drinks and have fun. Whether testosterone is flying and tempers are flying, that’s normal. Never, ever did it come across that I thought he had demons or bad vibes about him.”
- Kevin Lerena, speaking of Tasha’s incident
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/w...eva-steenkamps-death.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Azzie blames the victim, Reeva - a “Barbie doll”.

(Apparently, plain Janes never, ever cause trouble. :lol: Seriously, what alternate universe does Horse Guy live in? And Oscar’s mother was hardly plain Jane.)

Alcohol, flying tempers and flying testosterone are “normal”.

Well, of course, this explains everything - elitist, misogynist boys being boys, justifying their own bad, destructive, murderous behavior.

As if simply being a “man” excuses anything.

Considering the pervasive, macho SA culture and OP’s privileged, entitled background, history and friends, is it any wonder Reeva Steenkamp is dead (as well as thousands of other SA women each year)?

IMHO, OP’s monumental ego got seriously butt-hurt the night of Feb 14 2013 and he made sure Reeva paid the price.

I speculate that only ONE thing could have triggered such an explosive, gruesome murder (four Black Talons through a closed, locked door is extreme overkill - it clearly said rage, not fear) ... his pathological jealousy and violation of his “double standard”. In my mind this murder screams infidelity - either his, hers (or far more likely, what he falsely imagined to be hers) or both.

(According to the NYTimes article above and other accounts, Reeva was essentially the down-to-earth homebody, not Oscar, who is clearly a Type-A, thrill-seeking, adrenaline-junkie, narcissistic alpha-dog, always on the hunt and always on the razor’s edge.)

 

[pandax81]

Calling an expert sleuther who knows the witness testimony inside out!

Which witnesses, if any, testified that they heard repeated screams after the first shot?

 

[LemonMousse]

Yes, could have had absolutely nothing to do with that night.

But it seems a touch odd that (apart from the window downstairs) the only damage in the house was to that one same door.

And Pistorius did not live in a total dump. Things weren't working as they should, true, but he doesn't seem like the kind of person who would walk around his house shooting through doors with an air gun.

And Nel put that picture up for a reason.....because it didn't look good. OK, Masipa took no notice, but Roux couldn't have known she wouldn't and I think he'd have wanted to explain it if it was totally innocent.

I am 50/50 on it. Could be totally irrelevant.

We all know who would know though, right? Mr Frank! Hope he writes a book and then runs off some where with the money that has no extradition treaty. Hell, he can come and stay with me. I'll hide him from the Addams, I mean, Pistorius family.

 

[AJ_DS]

Calling an expert sleuther who knows the witness testimony inside out!

Which witnesses, if any, testified that they heard repeated screams after the first shot?

Stipp and Stipp heard 2 set of shots and they heard screams between sets

Johnson and Burger only heard 1 set of shots and they heard screams up until the shots… some could argue that perhaps they heard the first set and did hear the second set… but logic and timeline clearly indicate that they heard the second set…. so they heard screams after the first set of shots which they did not hear

 

[Interested Bystander]

Mrs Stipp thought the screams were coming closer. I have always thought he chased RS from the bedroom, with bat in hand and threatening her. She ran to the bathroom, which she must have thought was her only safe haven, and locked herself in the toilet cubicle. He then proceeded to batter the bath panel (dislodging the metal plate) and door so hard that it dislodged the tiles to the LH side of the toilet door. IMO RS would be screaming throughout this. I know I would have been.

 

[AW2B]

Indeed… I wonder how Reeva's jeans found outside OP's house, under the bathroom window could be explained in OP's version of events ???

… not saying it is necessarily incriminating evidence… but it certainly does not fit in OP's story, does it ?

BBM

To me ..it's evidence that something of a violent nature was going on BEFORE the murder. This evidence is indeed corroborated by the witness who heard a loud argument. For example. they had a fight.. Reeva was getting ready to leave the house..she got her jeans ..he grabbed them and threw them out the bathroom window..

I cannot find an innocent explanation for the location of Reeva's jeans being under the bathroom window..