Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

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CRAZY LIKE A FOX?

Today I play devil’s advocate. I present my defense of Masipa’s shocking verdict. Read on. :D


Masipa is well aware of the Pistorius family’s wealth, power and connections.

I believe she may also be crazy like a fox.

Is it really possible that a judge like Masipa - with her sterling reputation, personal background and strong judicial history defending women - could make such a colossal mess of this verdict?

What are the chances she would get clear, well-settled points of criminal law 100% wrong and present such hideous, abbreviated, blatantly selective, emotional “reasoning”?

Was she (an experienced judge in rape and murder trials, who hands down harsh sentences) really incapable of seeing Nel’s damning “mosaic”?

Why, suddenly, with this one case, was she seemingly overcome with sympathy and kindness towards a woman killer? (Given her history, it’s highly illogical.)

Why would she ignore crucial state facts and evidence on a wholesale level, instead overtly cherry-picking highly specific, dubious "facts" to support her pro-OP conclusion?

Why would she toss clear rationale, all logical inference out the window, as well as most of the State’s case, including multiple, highly credible ear witnesses and strong forensic experts? Instead, she offered an irrational, contradictory, piecemeal, highly selective, cut-and-paste explanation, strikingly in favor of OP’s “remorse”, etc. (We all know that remorse is no proof of innocence; abusers are notorious for “remorse” after their atrocities. Remorse is what comes into play at sentence mitigation, not in reaching a verdict.)

Her convoluted “logic” was patently illogical from beginning to end.
It’s almost as if she deliberately went over the top, screwing it all up, thereby guaranteeing that the State will appeal.

Acquitting OP of all charges was never a viable option on any level for any reason (the cold facts of his action demanded this minimum verdict to pass the smell test).

I believe Masipa will likely hand down a suspended prison sentence, perhaps with hefty fines. This would guarantee that the delighted Roux would not appeal. However, it would guarantee that Nel will absolutely appeal (no doubt he and his team are already hard at work on said appeal as we speak).

Together, her bizarre, inexplicable verdict and even worse sentence would catapult this case to the next stage.

If the shocked and outraged law commentary by most of the SA legal community is anything to go by, Masipa’s verdict and sentence will be overturned by the Appeals Court.

Masipa’s strategy:

The chances of her CH verdict being overturned and reduced to acquittal are virtually ZERO.
However, the chances that her CH verdict will be upgraded to dolus eventualis and her suspended prison sentence upgraded to actual prison are extremely high. If events go according to her plan, the giddy OP better enjoy his “victory” while he can because when the State’s appeal hits, there’s only one direction left for him ... down.

Here’s the beauty of Masipa’s “madness”.

Had she declared a verdict of dolus eventualis (which the best and brightest, trained legal minds fully expected), Defense would have automatically appealed. This would have left open the (remote) possibility that the Appeals Court would reduce it to CH, along with a mere slap on the hand. This potential scenario would be 100% unacceptable to Masipa’s legal and moral senses.

Masipa wants to insure that OP gets convicted of murder, gets actual prison and it all sticks.

She gave Roux an easy “win”, caught Defense in her judicial trap and will allow the Appeals Court to drop the hammer on the stunned OP.


Why do I think Masipa is crazy like a fox? If only one or two legal pundits had condemned her verdict, that would be chalked up to mere opinion. But most ALL of them?!! The very fact that the vast majority of the SA legal community (as well as the public) is shocked and outraged by her verdict very strongly indicates that her verdict is profoundly wrong on multiple levels and cannot stand.

The very real danger to OP is not only that her ruling and sentence will very likely be overturned and upgraded by the higher court - it’s all but virtually guaranteed (seriously, what are the chances that the Appeals judges will be as equally “f##ked up” as Masipa? And should this case ever get to the Supreme Court, what of those judges? Would they also be as inexplicably insane in their reasoning and legal interpretation to reach the same conclusion as Masipa? IMHO, highly doubtful).

This was no ‘ordinary’ murder trial; this was no ordinary SA defendant. Masipa knows exactly what’s at stake. She knew exactly what was coming her way with her CH verdict. By ‘throwing herself on her sword’ and allowing herself to become a legal laughingstock, the object of wholesale ridicule and condemnation from most every corner, she may also have become a quiet, very wily hero.

The trap is set.

Did Masipa get it “wrong”?

Perhaps she got it very right. :D

Whilst I do not have a legal bone in my body...I was thinking upon similar lines. Surely there has to be some reasoning to this bizarre verdict. The smugness on Oldwage's face !!! The hint of a smile on OP's face, when Masipa read her verdict. Capt Mangena shaking his head in disbelief. The Steenkamp family slumped in their seats. I am just totally gobsmacked. Dear Lux, you sound like a highly intelligent Web Sleuther - dear god I hope you are right.

This has even touched my young adult children. My son said the other night a mate of his (who is an electrician), phoned him voicing the same opinions of many others. I guess it just goes to show the rippling effect it has had worldwide touching all age groups.
 
Yes. It is positively Hitchcock-ian to murder someone in a blind rage, be crapping yourself about your next move and calling your handlers, decide to buy time/vacate the crime scene by driving the body to the hospital, have your car running and the front door open, and seconds before, in walks a DOCTOR!!!

I've read this before too but it's only just occurred to me: OP had a lot of blood on him after carrying her down the stairs - on his clothes, hands and "feet". Could this mean that Frank opened the door and turned on the engine? After all, he was out the front when Stander arrived. This is going to drive me crazy now.
 
Something I have noticed is that no one so far seems to have managed to draw a recognisable cartoon or caricature of him. I can recognise Nel, Roux and Masipa instantly in cartoons, but the Pistorius figure looks nothing like him. His look is very bland, I have never seen anything attractive in him.
I never warmed to him as an athlete , there was an arrogance about him - now I dislike him even more, - now I know he's dishonest and uses his religion to try to win favour and portray an image and way of life he doesn't really live by -perhaps he's forgotton 'thou shalt not kill'

This is a good caricature of him :
http://www.zanews.co.za/featured/20...th-debora-patta-the-oscar-pistorius-interview
 
"Oscar Pistorius free to compete if given suspended sentence, says South African Olympic committee".

Suspended sentence it is then.

Masipa didn't want him punished twice, so she definitely won't want him punished thrice!

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/athleti...frican-olympic-committee-20140916-10he5i.html
I read that he'd still be welcome to compete - they're separating athletics/sport with killing someone,...... well,that will not go down well with his teammates in SA, not many had anything nice to say about him anyway !

I can't see any competition where Oscar attends being anything but one pain of a distraction to everyone involved and I can't see this would sit right with other competitors either. I can't see him being good enough or qualifying for the Olympics either, there are other athletes who are younger and faster than he is now. I think his career is over, he may have been offered a role commentating , IF he had been acquitted, but he wasn't.
 
With respect to the Professor, it appears s310 does not apply to a high court case. s319 is the relevant section. It is expressly stated in the Act. http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/acts/1977-051.pdf

See my post earlier where I demonstrate the Act does not exclude or even seek to exclude an appeal where a competent verdict was found, and therefore Seekoei, as case law only, should be no barrier to an appeal. Edit: I just realised that my linked post was supposed to be a reply to this nice post by RosieC but I hit the wrong one! She quoted the article about Seekoei case preventing appeal by state.

I think you need to read this:

James Grant @CriminalLawZA • 9h
... State's right to appeal arises from s310 of CPA where a decision of law is made "in the accused's favour"; different to s 319...

James Grant @CriminalLawZA • 9h
... s319 relates to "reservation of law" questions - which require acquittal on charge and competent charge - Seekoei is authority for this.

James Grant @CriminalLawZA • 7h
To clarify - the case of Seekoei 1982 AD does not restrict the state's right to appeal against a decision of law "in favour of an accused".
 
With respect to the Professor, it appears s310 does not apply to a high court case. s319 is the relevant section. It is expressly stated in the Act. http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/acts/1977-051.pdf

See my post earlier where I demonstrate the Act does not exclude or even seek to exclude an appeal where a competent verdict was found, and therefore Seekoei, as case law only, should be no barrier to an appeal. Edit: I just realised that my linked post was supposed to be a reply to this nice post by RosieC but I hit the wrong one! She quoted the article about Seekoei case preventing appeal by state.

Thanks for the links, and great posts by the way.

Reading through s310, agree, it's for the lower courts, doesn't seem to apply in Guateng High Court. Someone please tweet Prof Grant for more discussion/research.

On the s319 - s322 reading through them now, fun.
 
OSCAR PISTORIUS VERDICT A DONE DEAL. THIS IS A 'MUST READ': http://www.dispatchlive.co.za/gen/oscar-verdict-a-done-deal/ CPA APPEAL MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE - AT ALL. NOT EVEN IF HE IS GIVEN A NON-CUSTODIAL SENTENCE.

Do any South African criminal law experts know if evidence of incompetent reasoning by judge on matters of fact and law can be grounds for review or re-trial? (God forbid the latter.)

Sorry if already answered, but just catching up on overnight comments, Professor James Grant has answered on twitter regarding this article........

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 9h
... State's right to appeal arises from s310 of CPA where a decision of law is made "in the accused's favour"; different to s 319.

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 9h
... s319 relates to "reservation of law" questions - which require acquittal on charge and competent charge - Seekoei is authority for this.

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 7h
To clarify - the case of Seekoei 1982 AD does not restrict the state's right to appeal against a decision of law "in favour of an accused".
 
Theory term for the day - on Oscar Pistorius faded ‘glory’, media and the law - ‘Humpty Dumptyism’

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they're the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, Ican manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That's what I say!" - Lewis Carroll, Through The Looking-Glass

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumptyism

Obdurate insistent that words can mean whatever one wishes -
"It seems to be saying one or both of two things. One is that any score that comes out of any procedure that purports to measure intelligence is a value of the scale, intelligence.
If so, this would be Humpty Dumptyism."
 
Each day I become more and more incensed at this mockery of the death of Reeva. Pistorius' testimony was a total sham; Masipa's verdict even more so. Her fawning of the killer disgusts me. By sentencing, I fear I'll need a support group to maintain my sanity. :notgood:
 
I’ve just stumbled on a fascinating radio interview with Judge Greenland (lasting approx. 25 mins) broadcast at the conclusion of Derman’s evidence on day 38. As so many of us love this Judge, please listen at 2:00 – approx. 3:35 because you’ll be amazed. I won’t say any more.

The rest of the interview is equally fascinating . He gives his opinions on Masipa, Derman, the media, the re-enactment video, returns to Derman and concludes with his opinions on a judge and assessors versus the jury system.

His comments on the re-enactment and his further comments on Derman were riveting to say the least.

(There’s a short music break at about 10 mins)

http://www.podcastpedia.org/podcast...-Pistorius-Trial-with-Judge-Chris-N-Greenland
 
Each day I become more and more incensed at this mockery of the death of Reeva. Pistorius' testimony was a total sham; Masipa's verdict even more so. Her fawning of the killer disgusts me. By sentencing, I fear I'll need a support group to maintain my sanity. :notgood:

Sure agree with you...my support group is here...most people I know here in US say ...yeah he got away with murder but don't really know the extent of the problems with the verdict...I thank everyone here for offering such great analysis and interesting theories. It has really help to know just how many think the same way I do.
 
I cannot express what I feel in words.......
My friend was shot to death by her husband who claimed she was the devil and was told to kill her(he claimed temporary insanity). I come from a 3rd world country(pakistan), but I live overseas. Her husband/killer's death sentence was appealed and overturned to life in prison, and he has been rotting in jail since then. So there is still some justice there.

OP had his faculties intact completely.......

I cannot fathom what this judge is and was thinking, but this I can tell you.....

OP has been let off the hook for murder (ridiculous reasons and misapplication of law)
OP has been let off the hook for ammo possession (unbelievable! So collect all the ammo u want)
OP has only been found guilty of Tasha's ONLY coz roux admitted it (if he hadn't he would have got off)
OP has been granted bail
OP will be given a suspended sentence no doubt about it

I don't think state will appeal, they feel it won't come to anything!

Sadly, judge masipa has reduced REEVA to something she used to fight against.....just a statistic of male on female violence!

Nothing more will come of this and don't expect anything on 13 oct, it's already been decided.

I agree with you. The only good that is going to come out of this whole trial, is that OP will never be allowed to have a gun with him. This is surely going to save someone's life in the future, more than likely a girlfriend.
 
This quote has absolutely nothing to do with the trial. It relates to the ANC. However he makes some very interesting comments that will relate to Masipa’s judgment IMO.

“Like any human being a judge needs personal affirmation on a continuous basis. That affirmation can only come from within judicial circles, not from outside. The judge becomes immersed in a world in which he/she is divorced from the hum drum of ordinary life and becomes preoccupied with developing a love for that which is good, that which is right, that which can be held up as truth for all to see. Truth becomes both the objective and the journey travelled, not polemics.

In addition, the way the system works, ensures that diversion from this path is quickly exposed. It is very difficult for a judge to give a bad judgment without soon knowing that he/she has stepped off the path and is losing the affirmation that we all crave. Your decisions and judgments are necessarily seen, considered and studied by your local and international community of judges, the legal sector, including legal scholars. It is members of this community that will react.

You will then know, beyond doubt, whether or not you are in step or starting on a maverick path. Probably the worst maverick path a judge can chose to take is one in which he/she is then seen by his/her peers as beholden to a politician. It is about as reprehensible as incest. The psychological pressure is both overarching and subconsciously enormously insistent.

... There were decisions that I handed down, which I did not “personally” support. However, as a judge, I was satisfied that they were right.”

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-judiciary-as-a-mistress-20111230
 
Maybe I'm slower than others but I've finally worked out what all the legal dispute is regarding Eventualis and perhaps sharing my layman interpretation may help:

- If I want to kill A but kill B instead by mistake, then this in the past wasn't a valid defence against murder as the intent to kill is being transferred from one person to another ("transfer of intent"). This though is no longer the case UNLESS if when B dies instead of A there was at least a small % chance that when I went out to kill A there was a chance I'd kill B. If that's the case, I am convicted of murder (dolus eventualis).

- Masipa rules out premeditated and Dolus Directus (direct murder) as she believes OP thought there was an intruder (or that's the only 'reliable' evidence left in her eyes and so has to).

- Thus, as OP kills Reeva (B) instead of intruder (A) then he still gets murder ("Dolus Eventualis") as there was a CHANCE that either A or B would die no matter what story you go with.

- Well, Masipa says this can't be the case as how could he carry intent to kill Reeva when he thought she was in bed.

- This is flawed as it only accounts for B (Reeva) and ignores the fact that even though it wasn't B, there was still a chance (which brings intent) to kill A (intruder) so his thought of Reeva in bed is irrelevant and so the test is flawed in its limit to B.

BUT THEN..

- Masipa includes the "didn't intend to kill anyone behind the door, let alone Reeva, as the deceased was in bed". So people and a couple of articles think she's covered her bases BUT she hasn't as the only reasoning she's given for the 'anyone behind the door' is the "deceased being in bed" which is still irrelevant to person A (intruder) and only includes B. In fact, her reasoning for the culpable homicide seems to provide the necessary reasoning needed to PROVE there was intent carried for A. Either way, there is a giant chasm of judgement missing on the chance of A being killed during her Eventualis test.

- And on top of this, OP's contradictory and ambiguous defences have excluded him from a valid PPD defence which would at least ADMIT intent against A but deem it lawful intent which would resolve all the above problems. However, Masipa herself has thrown this defence out so it leaves only Eventualis as option on table.

Anyway, just thinking aloud, sorry if late to the party on this one!
 
Has there been any video or talk from judge greenland on Masipa's verdict?
 
The BBC 3 programme is very hard to watch. Barry Steenkamp keeps breaking down and crying when he remembers how Reeva suffered. He said something I relate to (having had my mother murdered many years ago) - that you can never know how it feels until it happens to you. It's true. It's something you honestly never get over, the violence, the brutality, your loved one dying alone, and the feeling of isolation, that nobody really knows the trauma you're going through, and continue to go through. But Masipa didn't factor any of that into her interpretation of the evidence. It's Reeva's family who have been 'punished twice', not OP.

Brought tears to my eyes soozie. :cry:
 
Does anyone know why OP is estranged from his father? maybe his father has distance himself from OP because he knows he (OP) is a sick sadistic person or some other information? Just pure speculation of course, nothing based in fact here! Also, I wonder about Aimee's distress in court. I bet she knows OP is guilty and was so emotional because she was scared that the truth would come out?

Let's just say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :wink:
 
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