Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

[mirage1]

Was hoping Junebug would respond to those questions posed to him/her. Strange they seem to have been ignored. Maybe too difficult I guess.

 

[pandax81]

IMO, this was one of Oscar's phoniest moments in court. He first responds to Nel's question in his normal man's voice, "Get the **** out of my house!" Then, as if he remembered to do it for a feminine effect, he puts on a miserable "falsetto" voice and repeats the response. I didn't buy the theatrics.

Exactly! D'you think he may have been attempting a two-tone, one might almost say 'intermingled' rendition? The faces of Nel & Cpt Van Aardt are a picture and sum it up.

What on earth was he doing there, what happened, just some spontaneous re-enactment? Why didn't he just answer the question normally, where did this suddenly come from? JuneBug?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Two interviews, one with a lawyer (4:10-16.35) who discusses the verdict, especially dolus eventualis, and the other with a female human rights lawyer who canvasses the plight of gender violence victims in Africa (17:50-27:50).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma3t2QYH-jY

 

[jimmy73]

Exactly! D'you think he may have been attempting a two-tone, one might almost say 'intermingled' rendition? The faces of Nel & Cpt Van Aardt are a picture and sum it up.

What on earth was he doing there, what happened, just some spontaneous re-enactment? Why didn't he just answer the question normally, where did this suddenly come from? JuneBug?

It was both cringe-worthy and damning all at once IMO. I wish Nel had actually called him on it but I don't think Judge Messitup would have stood for it.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judge Greenland has created a new word for us.

Chris N Greenland @Chrisng53 • Apr 14

oscarphrenia (noun) meticulous recollection of even obscure details, with sudden amnesia on simple but critical events ...

 

[AW2B]

One of the key bits of evidence that was used to dis the ear witnesses was the testimony of Estelle VDM when she said she thought she heard a woman scream, only for her husband to tell her it was Oscar.
Masipa states:

"Although it was not established how her husband knew that it was the accused who was crying, this piece of evidence is enough to throw some doubt on the evidence of the witnesses who are adamant that they had heard a woman scream."

So by this statement, Masipa has assumed that somehow he knew this to be a fact, even though he didn't even give evidence.

I wonder why neither prosecution nor defence chose to call the husband to testify. This turned out to be a fairly significant bit of 'evidence' yet it sounds like hearsay to me. Perhaps I missed something: anyone know why mr VDM wasn't called?

This is a quote about Michell Burger's testimony regarding the woman scream she heard:

Roux, waved his glasses around as he put to the witness that the screams she heard were that of his client.

There were giggles in court as he suggested an “anxious” Pistorius shouting could sound like a woman’s screams.

Roux said: “You know if Mr Pistorius is very anxious, if he screams it sounds like a woman’s voice!”

But as he sucked the end of his glasses, she told him: “I had absolutely no doubt in my mind that it was two separate people. A male and a female.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-witness-heard-3204529
--------------------

BRBM

So people LAUGHED in court when Roux suggested that Pistorius shouting could sound like a woman's screams. Yet Milady took it very seriously and considered it a fact...AMAZING!

 

[delilah]

Be fair now, what he clearly meant is he doesn't drink alcohol with the necessary animus :giggle:

While witnesses may testify that it was OP's hand that held the glass full of alcohol that he raised to his mouth, he never meant to drink it. He hadn't foreseen that putting the glass to his lips might result in his drinking it, and he really can't therefore be convicted of dolus inebriatis - it was just terrible mistake.

 

[delilah]

It was both cringe-worthy and damning all at once IMO. I wish Nel had actually called him on it but I don't think Judge Messitup would have stood for it.

And then it got even worse as he shrieked "She was...EVERYTHING!!!! Arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh!!!" At which point, Milady gets up, says "court adjourned" and shuffles off for another cuppa. I was CONVINCED she wasn't buying any of it.

How wrong I was.

 

[vansleuths]

Anyone heard any guesstimates from legal analysts on how the trial proceeds once October 13th rolls around?

There will be a few days of testimony by both sides and then does Masipa give her ruling on a sentence after perhaps a night of deliberation or can we expect another lengthy delay of a month or so before we get a ruling.

 

[jay-jay]

And then it got even worse as he shrieked "She was...EVERYTHING!!!! Arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh!!!" At which point, Milady gets up, says "court adjourned" and shuffles off for another cuppa. I was CONVINCED she wasn't buying any of it.

How wrong I was.

.. just to correct that, he actually said ".. she wasn't breathing .. <wahhh .. sob .. sob>"

 

[mister happy]

While witnesses may testify that it was OP's hand that held the glass full of alcohol that he raised to his mouth, he never meant to drink it. He hadn't foreseen that putting the glass to his lips might result in his drinking it, and he really can't therefore be convicted of dolus inebriatis - it was just terrible mistake.

lol.. And what if it was only silhouette.. of a glass.. full of booze? Can one blame the poor guy? His conduct is understandable and perhaps excusable. Court is now adjourned for tea & twinkies.

 

[jay-jay]

While witnesses may testify that it was OP's hand that held the glass full of alcohol that he raised to his mouth, he never meant to drink it. He hadn't foreseen that putting the glass to his lips might result in his drinking it, and he really can't therefore be convicted of dolus inebriatis - it was just terrible mistake.

:rolling:

 

[jay-jay]

This thing about the woman's (i.e. Reeva) screams .. to me, the very fact that the DT have been so worried as they have been about them, convinces me that a woman (Reeva) did actually scream. There is absolutely no way that OP screams like a woman, either, and not only that but why would he have needed to have 'screamed' anyway? He would've called out, extremely upset, wailed, etc, etc .. but he would NEVER have screamed, it is completely the wrong type of emotion for what he claims he had just done.

Screaming is totally appropriate for someone in Reeva's situation though .. screaming, screaming for her life.


It never happened (OP's version).

 

[mister happy]

Anyone heard any guesstimates from legal analysts on how the trial proceeds once October 13th rolls around?

There will be a few days of testimony by both sides and then does Masipa give her ruling on a sentence after perhaps a night of deliberation or can we expect another lengthy delay of a month or so before we get a ruling.

And I thought the US courts were slow. This thing moves like thick molasses. I can just hear it, "My Lady will announce the sentence on her 70th birthday."

 

[Suthrnqt]

While witnesses may testify that it was OP's hand that held the glass full of alcohol that he raised to his mouth, he never meant to drink it. He hadn't foreseen that putting the glass to his lips might result in his drinking it, and he really can't therefore be convicted of dolus inebriatis - it was just terrible mistake.

:floorlaugh:

 

[delilah]

.. just to correct that, he actually said ".. she wasn't breathing .. <wahhh .. sob .. sob>"

Thank you! I misheard him through all the fake sobbing...

 

[jay-jay]

Thank you! I misheard him through all the fake sobbing...

:giggle: .. he had to try really hard to get that one going, didn't he .. fortunately he had Aimee in the background, who suddenly started sobbing, and egged him on a bit with it

 

[jay-jay]

Those bail conditions .. didn't OP's Uncle get the one about travelling abroad rescinded on the basis that Pistorius needed to continue his career in order to earn money? In which case, OP broke his bail conditions by going on holiday to Mozambique, surely?

 

[pandax81]

While witnesses may testify that it was OP's hand that held the glass full of alcohol that he raised to his mouth, he never meant to drink it. He hadn't foreseen that putting the glass to his lips might result in his drinking it, and he really can't therefore be convicted of dolus inebriatis - it was just terrible mistake.

In any event, an independent witness testified - significantly, on behalf of the state - that he was seen vomiting profusely not long after the incident. He looked distraught and was crying like a girl for help. This court has not been given any reason to reject this account and we accept it as true and reliable. Clearly then he did not subjectively foresee it as a possibility that he would drink the beverage. To find otherwise would be tantamount to saying that the accused&#8217;s vomiting up of the alcohol after he realised he had consumed the drink was faked; that he was play acting merely to delude the onlookers at the time.

 

[AW2B]

While witnesses may testify that it was OP's hand that held the glass full of alcohol that he raised to his mouth, he never meant to drink it. He hadn't foreseen that putting the glass to his lips might result in his drinking it, and he really can't therefore be convicted of dolus inebriatis - it was just terrible mistake.

LOL..OP would say..it was pitch black.. I thought I had a glass of orange juice Milady..I drank it thinking it was orange juice Milady...I didn't intend to digest it Milady-----> Not guilty!