Discussion Thread #60 - 14.9.12 ~ the appeal~

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Is it me or does Carl Pistorius come across as one of the biggest hypocrites to ever walk this earth?, forever tweeting his biblical quotes like him and his family are the ones who have been wronged.
Wish someone would tweet him asking what God would think of someone who deleted evidence from a mobile phone before handing it over to the police.
Honestly the guy grinds my gears as much as Oscar.

I agree 100%. And good old patriarch Arnold is setting the example. My twist on an old saying ...
"Quoting the bible doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in the garage makes you a car".
 
Limpopo police have confirmed they'll charge Carl with reckless and negligent driving following a crash in August last year. They said they're charging him because he's refusing to give the police a statement.

According to the police spokesman, the other driver and several eyewitnesses have already given their statements.

It's alleged that Carl is refusing to do so on advice of his lawyer.

Last year, the Pistorius family said that the accident was not Carl’s fault.

Carl had to undergo several operations following the accident. He sustained lacerations to his heart and liver and went into respiratory failure after the head-on collision.

The court will decide if he is guilty or not.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/fffdca0046de4a9387c2ff8a9ed13f36/-
 
Mod note: Please be sure to include links for photos, thumbnails and attached photos. Due to copyright a source must be provided. Photos not sourced will be removed. Thanks
 
O/T The two Paris terrorists are holed up in a small printing factory in Dammartin-en-Goele, not too far from the petrol station they initially stopped at yesterday. Initially one person was reported killed but this has subsequently been denied. Casualties also reported. It appears hostages have been taken. The place is swarming with police, SWAT teams and 5 choppers. All residents have been told to keep lights off and stay inside.

Watch live on BBC or CNN.
 
Could or couldn't? Who'd have thought the toilet convo could have gone on this long. Mine thought I was mad too. Well, I'm a girl. That's men's business. :)

Apologies, COULD NOT get it to flush. Hubby and plumber friend both agreed that there would have to be a motion sensor attached for this to be activated.
 
I wonder if Carl Pistorius watched Prison break and had a lightbulb moment.
 
Respectfully snipped


The accident took place outside Modimolle, when Pistorius's car collided head-on with another at 8pm 1st August 2014. Carl Pistorius had to be freed from the wreckage with the Jaws-of-Life before he and the other driver were taken to hospital, both with serious injuries. Two passengers in his car were unhurt. The other driver was alone.


Carl Pistorius was returning from a business trip in Polokwane at 8pm Friday evening. A colleague was following him in a different car and witnessed the accident, his uncle said.

Uncle Arnie weighs in to protect Carl: “Carl's vehicle was hit head-on by another car that had swerved from the opposite side of the (N1) highway into... oncoming traffic..” (But the other driver has not been charged, Uncle Arnie!)

How did a vehicle manage to get from one side of the N1 into oncoming traffic through a concrete barrier that would stop a tank dead in its tracks?

If Carl is innocent, why no statement? Looks as if he wants to see what the other witnesses have said first.


BiB


There seem to be no barriers on the N1 where Carl had his crash. It took place North of the Kranscop Toll Gate (near Modemolle). The toll gate is where the road changes from dual carriageway with a central grass reservation to the dual carriageway with only double yellow line in the centre. It is possible to see these lines in the photo. I am guessing from the photo Carl was travelling at great speed as his car has been pushed back across the road. However, it also shows that the other car could have crossed the double yellow line. Not that I am an expert on crashes LOL.

I am sure someone with crash knowledge will be able to read something into the photo of the scene. Carl's car is the one on the left.

I read somewhere that Carl says he remembers nothing that is why he has not given a statement but it was widely reported that he was joking with his rescuers so there seems there was nothing wrong with his thought processes and therefore I doubt his memory was damaged. He will probably claim all the anaesthetics/surgery caused him to lose it or, as someone as suggested, he is waiting to hear what he can glean from other testimony before he unloads his pack of lies. Sorry, I am cynical of anything information that comes from the Pistorius clan. They all seem to be tarred with the same brush.

Carl Pistorius Crash Scene.jpg


http://images.enca.com/enca/CPCrash%203.jpg
 
From toilet to guest room:

Hilton Botha (??) said immediately after having a tour through OP's home, that the guest room looked inhabited.
IF the guest room was occupied by Reeva, she had a private bathroom/toilet. In this case, there would have been no "normal" reason for her to use OP's bathroom and to be trapped in the toilet cubicle. IF the guest room was occupied by Reeva, then we have much more of OP's lies than before. And we would have a proof, that OP has chased Reeva into his toilet cubicle.

IF OP has carried Reeva's things like travel bag, handbag, shoes after the shooting from guest room to his bedroom, then there should have been found gunshot residue on it. I don't know, if that was tested. IF he carried the things after moving her body out of the toilet cubicle, then there should have been found some of her blood on it. IF there hadn't been gunshot residue and blood, there is a 3rd possibility: "assistants" with very clean hands ...

Pistorius had recently had a house guest, the English athlete Martyn Rooney. It's quite possible that any belongings in the guest bedroom and bathroom were his. He is described as a regular guest, so he may have left items there between stays.

Rooney has been a long-time friend and sometime training partner of Pistorius, and was a regular house guest at the home Pistorious shared with Steenkamp during warm weather training trips to South Africa, including 12 months ago, until just a few days before the fateful shooting.
http://insidecroydon.com/2014/03/07/rooney-named-as-shooting-witness-in-pistorius-murder-trial/
 
Limpopo police have confirmed they'll charge Carl with reckless and negligent driving following a crash in August last year. They said they're charging him because he's refusing to give the police a statement.

According to the police spokesman, the other driver and several eyewitnesses have already given their statements.

It's alleged that Carl is refusing to do so on advice of his lawyer.

Last year, the Pistorius family said that the accident was not Carl’s fault.

Carl had to undergo several operations following the accident. He sustained lacerations to his heart and liver and went into respiratory failure after the head-on collision.

The court will decide if he is guilty or not.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/fffdca0046de4a9387c2ff8a9ed13f36/-

Can you actually charge someone with an offence because they refuse to give you a statement?
Seems pretty odd !!
 
Can you actually charge someone with an offence because they refuse to give you a statement?
Seems pretty odd !!

Found this interesting regarding this issue

john barry ‏@johnbarry04 Jan 8
@barrybateman @Tara_Price12 @Carly_olcp Barry surely there must be more to it than not giving a statement?, has culpability been discussed?.


Barry Bateman
‏@barrybateman
@johnbarry04 Of course. You can’t prosecute someone for remaining silent. Other evidence must support case. @Tara_Price12 @Carly_olcp
 
Pistorius brothers favourite karaoke duet song has been revealed

[video=youtube;KzQUommb95c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzQUommb95c[/video]
 
Carl Pistorius faces charges


"... Carl Pistorius will face reckless and negligent driving charges following an accident outside Modimolle, Limpopo.
This decision was made early January after Pistorius failed to submit a statement after many attempts to do so. However, statements were made by all the other parties and witnesses. The docket was sent to court where a prosecutor instructed that charges be laid against Pistorius. The matter will be heard in February, 2015..."

<respectfully snipped>

FYI see above info re how the charges were laid against Carl Pistorius.
 
James Grant weighs in on Carl Pistorius' right to remain silent. He says everyone enjoys the right to remain silent.

&#8220;One should be cautioned that there are certain implications that arise when you do exercise and some of those might not be in your favour.&#8221;

With two parties involved in the collision, and only one having been charged so far, Grant says the inference is clear.

&#8220;The police would investigate, they would gather all the evidence and they would present that to the prosecutor and the prosecuting service would then decide whether to prosecute or not.&#8221;

NPA will only take his fingerprints and formally charge him for reckless and negligent driving in February but this is not the first time Carl has been in the spotlight for landing on the wrong side of the law.

The article then goes on to remind the reader of two other times.

http://ewn.co.za/2015/01/09/Experts-weigh-in-on-Carl-Pistorius-court-case
 
I wonder what are the "certain implications that arise when you do exercise" the right to silence the James Grant refers to? And also, why would a decision be made not to proceed with Carl wiping the mobile of its data?
 
I wonder what are the "certain implications that arise when you do exercise" the right to silence the James Grant refers to? And also, why would a decision be made not to proceed with Carl wiping the mobile of its data?

I'm not a lawyer and your first question is not as straight forward as you may think. This is the best I can come up with but it relates to the law in England. That said, I imagine it's probably very similar in SA.

If, having considered the defence case, the jury concludes that the silence can only sensibly be attributed to the defendant having no answer or none that would stand up to cross-examination, they may draw an adverse inference.

Sometimes an accused refuses to make statement because he intends to fabricate a defence late in the day or he doesn't have a genuine defence or any fact which may go toward establishing a genuine defence.

To avoid the drawing of an adverse inference, some defendants will state that they remained silent because they were advised to do so by their legal advisor. The defendant's statement that he was silent on legal advice is not hearsay provided that the purpose is limited to explaining why the defendant decided to remain silent.

A jury should then consider whether it was reasonable for a defendant to rely on such advice.

In England, the Court of Appeal set out a two stage test for juries to consider before drawing an adverse inference:

1. Did the defendant genuinely rely on the legal advice, i.e. did the defendant accept the advice and believe that he was entitled to follow it? and

2. Was it reasonable for the defendant to rely on the advice? By way of example, a defendant may be acting unreasonably if he relied on the legal advice to remain silent because he had no explanation to give and the advice suited his own purposes.

Reasonableness does not depend on whether the advice was legally correct. However, it is open for a jury to consider whether the accused did not respond to the police questions because his account would not stand up to questioning or any other adverse inference that they deem appropriate.

As to your question re Carl wiping the phone data, it appears the prosecution and defence made a deal at some stage during the trial. The prosecution agreed they wouldn't charge Carl for wiping the data in exchange for the defence not calling ex-Detective Hilton Botha. Botha was the lead detective in the investigation into Reeva's death. During the bail hearing when he gave evidence, he was heavily criticised for giving contradictory evidence, made to look ill-prepared and gave incorrect information. He was removed from the case after it emerged he was facing seven counts of attempted murder and he subsequently resigned from the SAPS.
 
J
I'm not a lawyer and your first question is not as straight forward as you may think. This is the best I can come up with but it relates to the law in England. That said, I imagine it's probably very similar in SA.

If, having considered the defence case, the jury concludes that the silence can only sensibly be attributed to the defendant having no answer or none that would stand up to cross-examination, they may draw an adverse inference.

Sometimes an accused refuses to make statement because he intends to fabricate a defence late in the day or he doesn't have a genuine defence or any fact which may go toward establishing a genuine defence.

To avoid the drawing of an adverse inference, some defendants will state that they remained silent because they were advised to do so by their legal advisor. The defendant's statement that he was silent on legal advice is not hearsay provided that the purpose is limited to explaining why the defendant decided to remain silent.

A jury should then consider whether it was reasonable for a defendant to rely on such advice.

In England, the Court of Appeal set out a two stage test for juries to consider before drawing an adverse inference:

1. Did the defendant genuinely rely on the legal advice, i.e. did the defendant accept the advice and believe that he was entitled to follow it? and

2. Was it reasonable for the defendant to rely on the advice? By way of example, a defendant may be acting unreasonably if he relied on the legal advice to remain silent because he had no explanation to give and the advice suited his own purposes.

Reasonableness does not depend on whether the advice was legally correct. However, it is open for a jury to consider whether the accused did not respond to the police questions because his account would not stand up to questioning or any other adverse inference that they deem appropriate.

As to your question re Carl wiping the phone data, it appears the prosecution and defence made a deal at some stage during the trial. The prosecution agreed they wouldn't charge Carl for wiping the data in exchange for the defence not calling ex-Detective Hilton Botha. Botha was the lead detective in the investigation into Reeva's death. During the bail hearing when he gave evidence, he was heavily criticised for giving contradictory evidence, made to look ill-prepared and gave incorrect information. He was removed from the case after it emerged he was facing seven counts of attempted murder and he subsequently resigned from the SAPS.

Ah! Thank you Judgejudi...understand better now but have to say 'doing deals' I don't like the idea of at all!
 
As to your question re Carl wiping the phone data, it appears the prosecution and defence made a deal at some stage during the trial. The prosecution agreed they wouldn't charge Carl for wiping the data in exchange for the defence not calling ex-Detective Hilton Botha. Botha was the lead detective in the investigation into Reeva's death. During the bail hearing when he gave evidence, he was heavily criticised for giving contradictory evidence, made to look ill-prepared and gave incorrect information. He was removed from the case after it emerged he was facing seven counts of attempted murder and he subsequently resigned from the SAPS.

rsbm

The reason for the deal is more fully described in Behind The Door, starting "That Monday morning started 11 minutes late ...". Essentially, the Defence accepted the chain of custody for the phones meaning that Botha would not have to be called.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...faIvBgMgL&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
rsbm

The reason for the deal is more fully described in Behind The Door, starting "That Monday morning started 11 minutes late ...". Essentially, the Defence accepted the chain of custody for the phones meaning that Botha would not have to be called.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...faIvBgMgL&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Mr Fossil, I don't have a Google account and when I use this link I can only preview certain pages, but I couldn't find the bit starting "That Monday morning" etc. Maybe I missed it.

If anyone else is having this problem, go to the following link which, hopefully, contains all the relevant text Mr Fossil is able to view.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/
 
Mr Fossil, I don't have a Google account and when I use this link I can only preview certain pages, but I couldn't find the bit starting "That Monday morning" etc. Maybe I missed it.

If anyone else is having this problem, go to the following link which, hopefully, contains all the relevant text Mr Fossil is able to view.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Or perhaps what I can see is UK only? It will be interesting to hear if anyone else can see it. I'll have a dig around. The City Press link you provide sums it up pretty well too.
 
OMG, I was just looking at Lisa's screenshots from the "Sunday Night" program again. It then struck me ... Reeva's right arm was virtually amputated, and this is the arm that Aimee has around OP's neck. Bear in mind the re-enactment was done at Arnold's home and the staircase is the mirror reverse of OP's, i.e. the railing is on the left in his home when you walk down the stairs. Reeva's head was on the side with the railing so her right arm had to have been the one around his neck. Just the thought of him carrying her with that shockingly injured arm in that position makes me want to be sick.

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/screen-shots-of-sunday-night-program/
 

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