Discussion Thread #61 ~ the appeal~

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I don't think anyone wishing for a harsher sentence says anything about OP, only (to be charitable) about how that person has evaluated the evidence. Getting emotionally involved in the alleged crime doesn't help reasoned argument in fact it can introduce bias into ones judgement. It was a terrible thing that happened to Reeva no doubt and that should never be forgotten but it should be put aside when trying to decide on OP's guilt. Not because it may or may not have been an accident but because it just does not help.

BTW I think he was a little more than just a "jumpy chap" according to expert testimony.

Thank you for the considered response. What I was referring to was a comment by you (IIRC) to another poster that wishing public shunning of OP (or something similar to that) showed more about them than him. My take is that also applies to those who take delight in the verdict, light sentence and early release. They care more that their `hero` gets out of prison after a ridiculously short period of time more than that a young woman is dead at his hands.

Re the evidence, I followed the trial closely and firmly believed it showed that he knew who was behind that door and deliberately shot to kill. And, even if he didn`t know it was her, he believed, on his own admission, that there was a human being in there and went ahead and fired four rounds of high calibre ammunition into a tiny cubicle. So IMO the evidence shows that at the very least he is guilty of Dolus eventualis. If you are concerned about evidence rather than emotion, may I pose two questions to you: Do you believe his story about being shot at on the freeway when he couldn`t recall who took him back the next day to retrieve his car and Do you agree with the judge finding him not guilty on the ammunition possession charge? TIA.
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...irlfriend-be-released-for-good-behaviour.html

Correctional Services spokesman Manelisi Wolela said the exact conditions of Pistorius’ house arrest wouldn’t be made public.

I wonder why this information will not be made public. I expect his house arrest will have very lenient rules, ie training allowed, shopping allowed, holidays allowed, ie an almost normal lifestyle. Maybe he will not be allowed to go to nightclubs. I am very interested to know whether he will be allowed to carry a gun again, ever! I am guessing, of course, but he certainly seems to have received preferential treatment until now.
 
Thank you for the considered response. What I was referring to was a comment by you (IIRC) to another poster that wishing public shunning of OP (or something similar to that) showed more about them than him. My take is that also applies to those who take delight in the verdict, light sentence and early release. They care more that their `hero` gets out of prison after a ridiculously short period of time more than that a young woman is dead at his hands.

Re the evidence, I followed the trial closely and firmly believed it showed that he knew who was behind that door and deliberately shot to kill. And, even if he didn`t know it was her, he believed, on his own admission, that there was a human being in there and went ahead and fired four rounds of high calibre ammunition into a tiny cubicle. So IMO the evidence shows that at the very least he is guilty of Dolus eventualis. If you are concerned about evidence rather than emotion, may I pose two questions to you: Do you believe his story about being shot at on the freeway when he couldn`t recall who took him back the next day to retrieve his car and Do you agree with the judge finding him not guilty on the ammunition possession charge? TIA.

I so agree with everything you say. The judge realised he had lied during the trial but chose to ignore it. If someone lies under oath, IMO, nothing OP stated during the trial can be relied on as the absolute truth. Once a liar, always a liar.
 
All from the same link posted by JJudi, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti..._campaign=1490

"One Pistorius relative, who learned of his release in the family WhatsApp group set up to share information about the runner's news from prison, told MailOnline how he had received a deluge of messages from female fans to pass on to the runner.
'I've received e-mails from a lot of women, asking me to pass them onto Oscar in prison,' the relative said
"A lot of the family have also had similar requests. I understand that he has had sacks of letters, photographs and cards since he was sentenced last year.
'It seems the news that he will be out soon has prompted even greater interest. I read a few of them, but really there are so many.
'Oscar is getting even more attention now than ever before..."

Amusing. Fighting talk/deluded thinking again. But Mrs. Pistorius this is the wrong type of attention! Hasn't heard of hybristophiles - ie. obscure term for the kind of women that start writing to murderers etc .
" "Some mental health experts have compared infatuation with killers to extreme forms of fanaticism. They view such women as insecure females who cannot find love in normal ways or as “love-avoidant” females who seek romantic relationships that cannot be consummated." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia

More at
http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/the-women-who-fall-in-love-with-jailed-killers/
explaining what's in it for the manipulative offender.

a more thoughtful article here
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/13/gender.uk
 
I'm afraid I don't know the international equivalents, but UK posters will be familiar with the documentary maker/presenter Louis Theroux. This bunch of infatuated women would make a great subject for one of his programmes.

It would be on a par with that hugely creepy one he did with Saville.
 
What I find the oddest thing about people who were/are so pleased with the verdict and now this house arrest issue is the obvious delight they take in such a light sentence. Forget the debates about the evidence or the judge`s flaws or lack thereof or the antics of the Pistorius clan. It is not only odd but disturbing that there are people who make the claim that wishing for a harsh sentence for Pistorius says more about the wishers than it does about him while at the same time seemingly never pausing to consider what their apparent attitude that blasting a terrified woman to death is no big deal, just an accident, we all make mistakes, he was a jumpy chap ad nauseum says about them.

You have missed the point of my comment. It was in relation to a poster who explained that because Oscar was in the public eye before all this happened, it was only right and proper that he should be wrongly labelled a murderer by the media. That poster clearly doesn't care about justice unless it is the mob kind.

As for people delighting over the shortness of the sentence, I haven't seen any of that on here. Rather the tendency is for posters to express outrage that a 'murderer' is getting away with it and that 10 months is not enough for such a crime. How is it unreasonable to point out then that he wasn't actually found guilty of murder?

Moreover, in relation to the length of sentence, you must surely be aware of numerous incidents in which 'innocent people were blasted to death in their own homes by someone they trusted' and there has a) been no outcry at their dreadful deaths b) no outcry at the lack of prison sentence for their killers and c) no judicial outcome more severe than a suspended sentence. I'm not sure why you seek to characterise such comments as 'delight' when they are surely no more than bald statements of fact.
 
I so agree with everything you say. The judge realised he had lied during the trial but chose to ignore it. If someone lies under oath, IMO, nothing OP stated during the trial can be relied on as the absolute truth. Once a liar, always a liar.

Right. When I read her ruling I can remember that part and not only did she recognize he lied but her justification for ignoring was to ALLEGE that because the PA witness was an Ex girlfriend that those types of witnesses are sometimes not truthful.

It was obvious bias on her part because she all but accused the prosecution witness of lying when there was no basis at all for it. Just because she was an ex and didnt like him anymore doesnt mean she wasnt telling the truth about him shooting through the roof of a car or out the window whatever the case was.

That judge really bothered me at the end. Just incredible.
 
As for people delighting over the shortness of the sentence, I haven't seen any of that on here.
RSBM

A disingenuous reply to Lithgow's point. Of course you never expected to find "delight" re OP setnence/release on this WS forum. That's not what you came onto WS for.
 
Right. .... her justification for ignoring was to ALLEGE that because the PA witness was an Ex girlfriend that those types of witnesses are sometimes not truthful.


That judge really bothered me at the end. Just incredible.

Agree Hatfield- much of what she said was jaw-dropping!
At the outset Masipa appeared inscrutable. Her silence, at the expense of not controlling her courtroom was misattributed, certainly by me. Did not appreciate it was lack of confidence/experience.
The more she opened her mouth, especially as proceedings came to a close, it became clear she was punching way above her weight.

At least she was rejected for the promotion she went for recently- simply not experienced enough and already over-promoted.
 
O/T Cross-posting here but for those who've been following Panayiotou, Magistrate Beeton will be reading her reasons for denying bail tomorrow, 13 June.
 
"Will Oscar's House Arrest be a Walk in the Park"

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Will-Oscars-house-arrest-be-a-walk-in-the-park-20150609

Worth a quick read. The following is quoted from the end of the newspaper article.


"If the SCA finds in favour of the State, Pistorius could see himself going back to jail.
However, Pistorius could launch an appeal and apply for bail.
"I see this thing landing up in the Constitutional Court...
"Let's assume the SCA converts his conviction to dolus eventualis then 15 years can be given... he will appeal and if he does... he is entitled to ask for bail.
"He will bring a bail application together with the appeal application. I don't see Oscar taking 10 years and not challenging it."
 
"Will Oscar's House Arrest be a Walk in the Park"

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Will-Oscars-house-arrest-be-a-walk-in-the-park-20150609

Worth a quick read. The following is quoted from the end of the newspaper article.


"If the SCA finds in favour of the State, Pistorius could see himself going back to jail.
However, Pistorius could launch an appeal and apply for bail.
"I see this thing landing up in the Constitutional Court...
"Let's assume the SCA converts his conviction to dolus eventualis then 15 years can be given... he will appeal and if he does... he is entitled to ask for bail.
"He will bring a bail application together with the appeal application. I don't see Oscar taking 10 years and not challenging it."

Does anyone see that OP is an even greater flight risk than before possibly to Mozambique which does not have an extradition agreement and he can go by road plus boat? How will they monitor his movements as an ankle bracelet will not work with him?

If he appeals a murder charge, how will he pay for his legal representation. He may not have paid for his last legal bill yet let alone another one. Will his uncle pay for this?

Is there any way they can keep him in jail until the result of the SCA appeal?
 
Does anyone see that OP is an even greater flight risk than before possibly to Mozambique which does not have an extradition agreement and he can go by road plus boat? How will they monitor his movements as an ankle bracelet will not work with him?

If he appeals a murder charge, how will he pay for his legal representation. He may not have paid for his last legal bill yet let alone another one. Will his uncle pay for this?

Is there any way they can keep him in jail until the result of the SCA appeal?

...i agree with this, now that his sporting career is almost finished and the risk of an even greater sentence, the chances of him leaving the country have to be considered now more than ever.....
 
I also worry that he is at great risk of doing something stupid and/or violent. His life will never be the same as before. He will no longer be the well respected Hero, the great athlete. I think he will get a bit of disrespect and some mocking if he tries to walk the red carpets and hang in the VIP rooms. There are going to be some ugly incidents, imo.
 
O/T Cross-posting here but for those who've been following Panayiotou, Magistrate Beeton will be reading her reasons for denying bail tomorrow, 13 June.

Apologies, Beeton giving her reasons NOW.

ETA Adjourned to 19 June for further investigation.
 
Apologies, Beeton giving her reasons NOW.

ETA Adjourned to 19 June for further investigation.

What needs to be further investigated? I thought Beeton's reasons were valid so why the need?

If OP makes another appeal, I hope she is the magistrate.
 
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