Discussions on Formal Sentencing Hearing - Jodi Arias #12

[krkrjx]

I wondered about that too and also found it a bit of a worry. On thinking about it a bit more, my feeling is that what he was saying (in essence) was 'we have evidence that puts you at the crime scene when the crime occurred. If you won't tell us what happened we will have to come up with a plausible explanation that explains your presence and the evidence'. In other words, he was saying they would develop a scenario that would fit with what they knew and could prove rather than that they would simply make stuff up. That makes sense to me though it could be completely wrong!

You're not wrong; it's what he was saying.

And if Flores or any other investigators led her on, there's no legal problem with that. They can say anything, imply anything, even lie about anything and everything during interrogation--up to the time the person says they want a lawyer, pretty much anything goes except perhaps physical assault. Verbal assault is acceptable and widely practiced.

 

[fifteen89]

Well I've finished both volumes of Behind the Words and can highly recommend it to anyone masochistic enough to want more Arias. Volume 2 started to get a bit repetitive, but that was the fault of Nurmi and Arias, not the author, who is just recounting and analysing the direct testimony - even she was getting tired of the endless repetition and Arias' BS.

It's now gotten me wondering what the real motive for this crime was. Arias took a huge risk in doing what she did, and it luckily backfired big time, and it seems that anger at being dumped and jealousy regarding a possible new girlfriend just isn't enough motive IMO for her to take the chance of losing her freedom just to 'pay him back'. People here have mentioned that it was a survival thing, and that he had info on her that, were he to broadcast it, would mean the end of her in the Mormon community, PPL (for whatever that was worth) and, most importantly, her chances of snaring a man in those communities that could free her from a life of pokey bedrooms and low-paid jobs. IMO it has to be something like that - I think she may well have hated him enough to want to kill him but there was also a reason, in her mind at least, that meant she had to silence him. I just wish we could know what that was. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on Arias's motive ...

You have to factor in that Ms. Einstein thought her stealth trip was a perfect alibi and she just 'knew' she would be able to talk her way out of any one believing she could have possibly had anything to do with his murder. She had no clue what all she left behind and with her delusional brain she has no concept of how stupid her story/stories sound. In her mind she wasn't risking anything because she never thought she'd be caught.

 

[Newbsleuth]

Well I've finished both volumes of Behind the Words and can highly recommend it to anyone masochistic enough to want more Arias. Volume 2 started to get a bit repetitive, but that was the fault of Nurmi and Arias, not the author, who is just recounting and analysing the direct testimony - even she was getting tired of the endless repetition and Arias' BS.

It's now gotten me wondering what the real motive for this crime was. Arias took a huge risk in doing what she did, and it luckily backfired big time, and it seems that anger at being dumped and jealousy regarding a possible new girlfriend just isn't enough motive IMO for her to take the chance of losing her freedom just to 'pay him back'. People here have mentioned that it was a survival thing, and that he had info on her that, were he to broadcast it, would mean the end of her in the Mormon community, PPL (for whatever that was worth) and, most importantly, her chances of snaring a man in those communities that could free her from a life of pokey bedrooms and low-paid jobs. IMO it has to be something like that - I think she may well have hated him enough to want to kill him but there was also a reason, in her mind at least, that meant she had to silence him. I just wish we could know what that was. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on Arias's motive ...

I think you're correct. as Dr Demarte explained, one of her traits was to put a person high up with worship, on a pedestal, then at a perceived slight, drop them down to hatred. As many have noted, she knew she wasn't getting any younger, and her frustration was building--all of her attempts so far to capture a man had failed. Her traits of suppressed anger and aggression were growing with that frustration. And as you point out, she viewed PPL and the Mormon groups as highly promising man-capture environments. At this stage, she could not risk loosing her image and access to these sources. So the anger, frustration, self-righteousness and sense of entitlement escalated to the murder level. Yes, anger and wanting to protect her PPL status.

 

[Newbsleuth]

You have to factor in that Ms. Einstein thought her stealth trip was a perfect alibi and she just 'knew' she would be able to talk her way out of any one believing she could have possibly had anything to do with his murder. She had no clue what all she left behind and with her delusional brain she has no concept of how stupid her story/stories sound. In her mind she wasn't risking anything because she never thought she'd be caught.

Yes! And in addition, what I love is in the 911 call, Travis's friend naming her as the suspect. That quick, immediately she was the suspect. The 911 call--ha-ha-- for all her idiotic cover-up attempts, she was known from the minute the crime was discovered.

 

[Love Never Fails]

BEAUTIFUL, just Beautiful!!!

Zoey, his name isn't Steve Flores. It is Esteban Flores.

 

[krkrjx]

IMO, Travis knew Arias was a stalker and tire-slasher. He knew she was a psychopath but did not know she was capable of murder or at least refused to believe such a notion. I believe he would have taken necessary measures to protect himself if he knew the level of her obsession.

I think what TA knew about JA might have been embarrassing for her if he revealed any of it publicly. But I don't think it was anything that could have ruined her. I mean, she was neither a person of power in her community nor one who was dependent on saving her reputation to save her livelihood. Probably most of what each knew about the other was no different than what most people know about those they date or are more than just acquaintances with. Anything revealed by one about the other would likely have been explained away as an ugly break-up, seen as a "he said, she said" argument.

TA probably had more to lose if JA revealed things about him. He did have standing in his community as a respected business person. He also had standing in his church that could have been affected. I think he knew it could have hurt him and and she knew she could say it in a way that it certainly would have hurt him. I believe she did threaten him with exposure and that's what made him call her the worst thing that ever happened to him. That's just my guess, though, but it is an easy guess to make given what we know about their relationship.

I am not convinced JA feared TA could ruin her reputation. I mean, she may have feared that, but not to a degree of feeling she had to "silence" him. I think she killed him because she had been seething for a long time and could not let go of her anger and it eventually became a malignancy. If all she needed to do was silence him, I think she would have done the deed differently. She might have even sought out someone to do it for her. But barring that, she would at least have murdered with less display...likely would have just killed him quickly as he slept. No fuss, no risk of a bloody palm print left behind. The way she killed him screams of a smoldering, festering anger, a hatred, an evil designed to exact revenge rather than a crime born out of necessity. Jodi Arias brutally murdered Travis Alexander because she is evil and vindictive. Period.

All IMO.

 

[GigiG]

I wonder if they changed which cell she was assigned.

On March 2, Troy tweeted a picture of her actual assigned cell. Debra Milke wasn't exonerated until March 23. :thinking:

Milke was released in September 2013. I think she was wearing an ankle monitor until March 23.

 

[ZoeyW]

Zoey, his name isn't Steve Flores. It is Esteban Flores.

Friend, he goes by Steve and yes his God given , legal name is Esteban. It is simply the English version of Esteban.


Here is the Chief of Police Frank Milstead, calling him "Steve Flores" http://www.fox10phoenix.com/Clip/8856811/mesa-police-chief-detective-flores-did-incredible-job

You will hear him in interviews even refer to himself as Steve. His wife and family and friends call him Steve. Juan calls him Steve, sometimes even in court. Much like when I am signing legal documents I must use my full name. If called to the stand to testify I must use my full legal name. He does go by Steve in everyday life, just as I go by my nickname I have been called since being a kid.

I was in first grade when my teacher called me by my full name and I did not even realize she was calling ME. I am not kidding. I had never ever heard that name in my life with my family.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Me too.

Well now I'm curious enough to go explore Saki The story you just described sounds funny to me. Thank you Becky Sharp and Lithgow1 !

 

[Kadoober]

Well now I'm curious enough to go explore Saki The story you just described sounds funny to me. Thank you!

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but definitely read Saki! I bought my husband his complete works, and we love to read his stories to each other. I don't know what brought this up, but I'm guessing it has something to do with romance at short notice as a specialty

 

[ZoeyW]

Well now I'm curious enough to go explore Saki The story you just described sounds funny to me. Thank you!

I didn't know until I googled it yesterday but there are videos of his short stories on you tube. I never thought of The Open Window as a ghost story. I read it in a textbook in the fifth grade. I thought the girl could just make up detailed stories at the drop of a hat. Throughout my many years since then I have encountered folks that do that, but never as much as Jodi Arias. She could make a sailor blush with her stories at short notice!

https://youtu.be/nZfSa0z8mvo
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/OpeWin.shtml

Tobermory by Saki https://youtu.be/R4MIHiXjx6Q

 

[ElleElle]

I wondered about that too and also found it a bit of a worry. On thinking about it a bit more, my feeling is that what he was saying (in essence) was 'we have evidence that puts you at the crime scene when the crime occurred. If you won't tell us what happened we will have to come up with a plausible explanation that explains your presence and the evidence'. In other words, he was saying they would develop a scenario that would fit with what they knew and could prove rather than that they would simply make stuff up. That makes sense to me though it could be completely wrong!

He had proof she was there and wanted her to explain the crime. She could of just told the truth then, but, nope. Flores was so patient & calm too. He was totally playing good cop.

 

[katiecoolady]

I read that PV inmates have to wait hours in line outside for commissary and the medical clinic. Plus, if she's lucky, JA will get a job. I'm thinking the toilet cleaning job @ 10 cents an hour would be perfect, since she has no transferable work skills. And of that $.10, 50% would be docked for restitution, at a net of $.05 gain to Jodi's commissary account. JA will have to work a whole day (8 hours) to buy a coke...... I'll bet, given her limited education, JA has not calculated this yet..... Maybe these factoids become apparent in "orientation"?

Wow...just wow. Thanks for doing this math.

 

[Smarty Jones]

Well I've finished both volumes of Behind the Words and can highly recommend it to anyone masochistic enough to want more Arias. Volume 2 started to get a bit repetitive, but that was the fault of Nurmi and Arias, not the author, who is just recounting and analysing the direct testimony - even she was getting tired of the endless repetition and Arias' BS.

It's now gotten me wondering what the real motive for this crime was. Arias took a huge risk in doing what she did, and it luckily backfired big time, and it seems that anger at being dumped and jealousy regarding a possible new girlfriend just isn't enough motive IMO for her to take the chance of losing her freedom just to 'pay him back'. People here have mentioned that it was a survival thing, and that he had info on her that, were he to broadcast it, would mean the end of her in the Mormon community, PPL (for whatever that was worth) and, most importantly, her chances of snaring a man in those communities that could free her from a life of pokey bedrooms and low-paid jobs. IMO it has to be something like that - I think she may well have hated him enough to want to kill him but there was also a reason, in her mind at least, that meant she had to silence him. I just wish we could know what that was. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on Arias's motive ...

I just finished Volume One - don't know when/if I'll read Volume Two - I binged on it for several days, letting much healthier activities slide. I will say though I appreciate what the author did - I finally understand the testimony. I simply couldn't follow it as it was happening - it was too convoluted, repetitious, boring, salacious, etc. I believe 281's motive was as old as time, nothing more than woman scorned-if I can't have him no one will-punishing him for not loving her. That he was going to out her was the last straw. She had to WIN then.

 

[katiecoolady]

IMO, Travis knew Arias was a stalker and tire-slasher. He knew she was a psychopath but did not know she was capable of murder or at least refused to believe such a notion. I believe he would have taken necessary measures to protect himself if he knew the level of her obsession.

I think what TA knew about JA might have been embarrassing for her if he revealed any of it publicly. But I don't think it was anything that could have ruined her. I mean, she was neither a person of power in her community nor one who was dependent on saving her reputation to save her livelihood. Probably most of what each knew about the other was no different than what most people know about those they date or are more than just acquaintances with. Anything revealed by one about the other would likely have been explained away as an ugly break-up, seen as a "he said, she said" argument.

TA probably had more to lose if JA revealed things about him. He did have standing in his community as a respected business person. He also had standing in his church that could have been affected. I think he knew it could have hurt him and and she knew she could say it in a way that it certainly would have hurt him. I believe she did threaten him with exposure and that's what made him call her the worst thing that ever happened to him. That's just my guess, though, but it is an easy guess to make given what we know about their relationship.

I am not convinced JA feared TA could ruin her reputation. I mean, she may have feared that, but not to a degree of feeling she had to "silence" him. I think she killed him because she had been seething for a long time and could not let go of her anger and it eventually became a malignancy. If all she needed to do was silence him, I think she would have done the deed differently. She might have even sought out someone to do it for her. But barring that, she would at least have murdered with less display...likely would have just killed him quickly as he slept. No fuss, no risk of a bloody palm print left behind. The way she killed him screams of a smoldering, festering anger, a hatred, an evil designed to exact revenge rather than a crime born out of necessity. Jodi Arias brutally murdered Travis Alexander because she is evil and vindictive. Period.

All IMO.

Amen. Excellent synopsis.

 

[katiecoolady]

Steven supports this lovely tribute to his brother. It is the TRUE story of Travis.

Steven Alexander @StevenJA86 · Mar 21
Just finished reading this.I am so grateful,Travis would be too.I hope many more read it. www.ourfriendTravis.com

VIS of Steven https://youtu.be/opDVLS_xrqg

Steven's 2nd VIS https://youtu.be/EMBenqjLsDQ

I'm glad they posted this pre-emptive strike on their website re: the troll reviews they anticipate.

NOTE ABOUT REVIEWS OF THIS BOOK: This book includes information about the Jodi Arias murder trial, which was one of the highest profile murder trials in recent history. As a result of the media attention this case garnered, millions around the world have come to know Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias, the woman who viciously murdered him. Though the public came out overwhelmingly in support of Travis Alexander, his friends and family, there is a very small, but vocal group, who, for whatever reason, are supportive of a convicted murderer. Some of her supporters have promised to give this book negative reviews even before it was released. It is expected they will come out in mass to do so. Please consider this when reading the reviews of this book.

 

[FelicityLemon]

I wondered about that too and also found it a bit of a worry. On thinking about it a bit more, my feeling is that what he was saying (in essence) was 'we have evidence that puts you at the crime scene when the crime occurred. If you won't tell us what happened we will have to come up with a plausible explanation that explains your presence and the evidence'. In other words, he was saying they would develop a scenario that would fit with what they knew and could prove rather than that they would simply make stuff up. That makes sense to me though it could be completely wrong!

I think he was trying to goad her? Possibly he already understood her personality would never stand for someone else to have control over any scenario. I wonder if part of Detective training includes mini psych evaluations or guides to dealing with certain personalities? I'd love to have a "cheat sheet" of things to prepare me for how to deal with some people. I read books and find lots of articles online, but a concise little guidebook would be awesome! *sigh* I STILL have a lot to learn about not letting my emotions override my brain and it must be sooooo hard for LE in that regard until they get more experience. ullhair:

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as a book of Hints, Tips and Tricks for Dealing with Bad People? :drumroll:

 

[Frigga]

Wow...just wow. Thanks for doing this math.

I am always so happy to see the two smiling faces in your Avatar!

I really, really want to see Matt McCartney's deposition. Do you happen to know if it was sealed?

 

[Frigga]

I think he was trying to goad her? Possibly he already understood her personality would never stand for someone else to have control over any scenario. I wonder if part of Detective training includes mini psych evaluations or guides to dealing with certain personalities? I'd love to have a "cheat sheet" of things to prepare me for how to deal with some people. I read books and find lots of articles online, but a concise little guidebook would be awesome! *sigh* I STILL have a lot to learn about not letting my emotions override my brain and it must be sooooo hard for LE in that regard until they get more experience. ullhair:

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as a book of Hints, Tips and Tricks for Dealing with Bad People? :drumroll:

BBM- God knows there should be!

 

[lithgow1]

Well now I'm curious enough to go explore Saki The story you just described sounds funny to me. Thank you Becky Sharp and Lithgow1 !

I don't think you'll regret it. I'll risk going off topic to give you this link where you can download them or read online. Particular faves of mine are The Storyteller, Esme, The Schartz-Metterklume Method and Quail's Eggs plus the ones mentioned but they are nearly all good. Often dark, with a wicked wit, they are usually very sympathetic to children and animals. He's very much of his time and place (upper-class England before WWI) but very readable nonetheless - the best ones are timeless really. To get back on topic (sort of) I think he would have gone 'whoosh' straight over Jodi's head. Self-help, The Secret, Oprah'ish type stuff seems to be her preferred reading material, for all the good it did her.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/authors/search/?query=Saki