Dissecting the Florida Dept. of Children & Families Reports

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I don't want to disagree with anything anyone has said about Casey and her lack of honesty or that she never cared about her daughter, Caylee.
I just want to point out one fact we know. Casey did not want to keep her child. She wanted to adopt her out.
If only that could have happened.
It was Cindy who stood firm on no adoption. That Casey would keep her baby. It was almost as though Cindy was trying to punish Casey for having a child out of marriage and at such a young age.
I think that explains why Cindy can lie about this entire case. She must feel a load of guilt. Enough guilt that she can deny and lie and cover up. It's so sad for everyone involved.
I see Casey and her mother as twin monsters.
jmo

I agree. It's too bad that she protested so much when Casey was seriously considering adoption. I'm not sure, though, whether it was to punish her for getting pregnant or her own selfishness as far as wanting to be a grandmother and not wanting Caylee raised by a different family.
 
I believe it was a precaution in case Caylee was found alive. Probably standard in all 'kidnapping' cases. DCF needed to determine if Caylee could immediately be returned to her mother. I think they decided against it.

Thanks, Chilly Willy!
 
on page 2224 "The parent, caregiver, or household member has a criminal history (regardless of disposition) or engages in dangerous criminal activities that may impact child safety and/or presents a potential threat of harm to the child (eg. drug manufacture or distribution, trafficking and/or sell of illegal drugs or weapons, prostitution) "

This box is marked YES

Turbo, I have to ask about your photo (avatar) there, and I apologize for going off topic briefly... but, is that dog holding an uncapped syringe in its mouth? :confused: not that a capped one would be safe either.... this photo is really disturbing. Please tell me it's just a candy one or chew toy or something, or that I'm blind and it's a ball.
 
I agree. It's too bad that she protested so much when Casey was seriously considering adoption. I'm not sure, though, whether it was to punish her for getting pregnant or her own selfishness as far as wanting to be a grandmother and not wanting Caylee raised by a different family.

is it really substantiated that Casey ever wanted to give Caylee up? I think it was only one person's hearsay that this was the case, right? This was KMT who actually said in her interview that she had wanted to adopt Caylee but Casey did not take her up on it.
I always thought it was strange the way KMT changed her story about the recent phone call from KC, saying oh, she'd realized later it was a different Casey who had called saying her boyfriend was abusing her and could she borrow money, etc. Then KMT (or her boyfriend) also refused to provide phone records of the call, if I recall correctly.
 
I'm not going to automatically believe what Casey told one person. That's like believing Casey herself and she lies about so much there's no way to know the truth. Casey was probably setting herself up as a victim in all the things she has told people over the years and they all fell for it. She was still at it with DFS about being the mother of a missing child and devoting her life to that.
 
I thought it was bizarre that KC said that she had to "retrace her steps" when looking for Caylee. Why would anyone have to retrace their steps if they left their child in the care of another? I mean, I retrace my steps when I lose my keys, or my cellphone because I forget where I placed that item. In her case, she knew where she supposedly left her, correct? Why would she retrace her steps?

Maybe she was confused during the interview, and thought that DCF was inquiring about her imaginary Blackjack. :-P

So true. You retrace your steps to find something you dropped or lost. Not something that you know was stolen or is with someone else.
In the beginning of the case when KC was talking to Lee on the phone about the lost "blackjack", I did always wonder if the blackjack was code for Caylee, (or the babysitter), and whether she had actually lost Caylee.
 
Very well stated. I wholeheartedly agree. Even watching her in the Target video, her actions and posture, I got the impression of watching a young person imitating an adult, in this case mimicking her mother, as you say. She "plays" Cindy in the reports from friends that portray her as head cook and bottle washer and the perfect hostess tending to everyone's needs. Then we hear the "Cindy" role take centerstage when she's consoling Christina during the jailhouse phone call: "I know sweetheart. I love you. blah, blah, blah" Her tone was condescending, as though she were an adult talking to a child, yet at the same time hollow. I kept going back to it in my head until I started to home in on what you've stated. She's a regular one woman show with a role for every situation. Too bad her performance lacks truth.

Regarding the role playing, I have wondered about this, too. Her "I love you sweetie, I really do" to Christina in that first jailhouse phone call really was mocking and angry, it made me wonder if this was an imitation of someone she had heard growing up (and I don't necessarily mean one of her parents). You never know. Her smile and wave to her parents in the first hearing had a saccharin, taunting quality. Friends who were interviewed, people who have known her for years, all said, "who is this person, we don't recognize this person at all, KC is not like this at all"....
So I've even wondered if these various personas might actually be more real and separate, i.e. an actual identity problem, dissociative kind of thing.
There are various things that have made me wonder that throughout the case, one very small thing was in that final interview before the last arrest, the way tears actually were steadily streaming from her eyes but she was continually trying to both erase them, and also was looking at the tears on her fingertips in a bizarre way, as if trying to figure out what was coming out of her eyes. It was really weird.
There was a moment during the first hearing, when KC was staring down, she raised her arms up slightly in a defensive posture in front of her, and momentarily she really had a searching, confused expression, like "what happened during the past weeks?" Like she was really trying to remember. Her interviews with LE seemed like that, too, more like confusion than any kind of strategic, purposeful lying, because it was things that would be disproved immediately, and that would only discredit her, she had nothing to gain by it.
I have wondered if there could be some disorder at work that causes her actual confusion, or even lost "time" (or for that matter if there was some kind of event to the brain, for example, some injury or drug usage or being drugged by someone else)....Anyway, if she was experiencing real confusion, she could have lost Caylee because of it, could have left her somewhere, in a car, or wherever, or could have been an easy target for the wrong person.
Also, the talk about JG having had to take her to the hospital for a "seizure" (or in this document it looks like it could have been the family who took her, I'm not sure who had to take her), I'd like to hear a lot more about this and I wonder what medical tests might reveal.
But, somehow I think we're unlikely to find out more about this.
Anyway, obviously this is all just one line of speculation, I'm not saying it's true. Just makes me wonder. And excuse my difficulty explaining what I mean, I'm up way too late :)
 
Regarding the role playing, I have wondered about this, too. Her "I love you sweetie, I really do" to Christina in that first jailhouse phone call really was mocking and angry, it made me wonder if this was an imitation of someone she had heard growing up (and I don't necessarily mean one of her parents). You never know. Her smile and wave to her parents in the first hearing had a saccharin, taunting quality. Friends who were interviewed, people who have known her for years, all said, "who is this person, we don't recognize this person at all, KC is not like this at all"....
So I've even wondered if these various personas might actually be more real and separate, i.e. an actual identity problem, dissociative kind of thing.
There are various things that have made me wonder that throughout the case, one very small thing was in that final interview before the last arrest, the way tears actually were steadily streaming from her eyes but she was continually trying to both erase them, and also was looking at the tears on her fingertips in a bizarre way, as if trying to figure out what was coming out of her eyes. It was really weird.
There was a moment during the first hearing, when KC was staring down, she raised her arms up slightly in a defensive posture in front of her, and momentarily she really had a searching, confused expression, like "what happened during the past weeks?" Like she was really trying to remember, like there were memory gaps or something. Her interviews with LE seemed like that, too, more like confusion than any kind of strategic, purposeful lying.
I have wondered if there could be some disorder at work that causes her actual confusion, or even lost "time" (or for that matter if something event happened to her brain, for example, some injury or drug usage or being drugged by someone else)....Anyway, if she was experiencing real confusion, she could have lost Caylee because of it, could have left her somewhere, in a car, or wherever, or could have been an easy target for the wrong person.
Also, the talk about JG having had to take her to the hospital for a "seizure", I'd like to hear a lot more about this and I wonder what medical tests might reveal.
But, somehow I think we're unlikely to find out more about this.
Anyway, this is all just one line of speculation, I'm not saying it's true. Just makes me wonder.

I totally missed that. Could I have a few links, or friend name/page/line number for a few interviews where they say this?

To my memory, they all said she consistently acted throughout the way she always has. Maybe I have the memory problem lol :eek:

Thanks.
 
I totally missed that. Could I have a few links, or friend name/page/line number for a few interviews where they say this?

To my memory, they all said she consistently acted throughout the way she always has. Maybe I have the memory problem lol :eek:

Thanks.

It's in virtually all the interviews with friends. They all express that they are completely baffled because the KC they see in the media coverage is not the person they knew at all and they can't imagine how this change occurred. They all state that KC was normal, loving and affectionate with Caylee and would never hurt her in any way. Some examples that come to mind immediately: Jesse G's statements on the Nancy Grace show, Jesse's father's statements on the Nancy Grace show (almost word for word with what I've written above in this paragraph), Dante and Exit 13's comments on this forum...I will try to find some of the page numbers for you from the various interviews with LE, but you've seen them all before, I'm sure.
 
It's in virtually all the interviews with friends. They all express that they are completely baffled because the KC described to them by LE and the media is not the person they knew at all and they want to know how and when this change occurred. They all state that KC was normal, loving and affectionate with Caylee and would never hurt her in any way. Some examples that come to mind immediately: Jesse G's statements on the Nancy Grace show, Jesse's father's statements on the Nancy Grace show (almost word for word with what I've written above in this paragraph), Dante and Exit 13's comments on this forum...I will try to find some of the page numbers for you from the various interviews with LE, but you've seen them all before, I'm sure.

Thanks, Seagull. I'm not disputing what you're saying. My memory is just that the friends have all said Casey acted throughout the way she always has. Well since I posted I did remember George saying in the new July 24 interview something about "over the past 2 to 2 1/2 months", and I have a note to myself to look that up again and see what else he was saying about it.

If you could just give me a reference or two that you've seen from the friends that I could look at, I'd appreciate it. I just don't want to spend the day reading everything from the friends looking for a needle in haystacks :)

ETA: Seagull, did you mean how the friends said that Casey always appeared to love and take good care of Caylee, and that therefore in their opinions Casey harming Caylee would surprise them (paraphrasing)? Or, for example, Ryan (name?) the friend since childhood who was shocked at all of Casey's lies because he'd never had a clue she'd been lying all along? If so, I definitely remember the statements along those lines.
 
There are various things that have made me wonder that throughout the case, one very small thing was in that final interview before the last arrest, the way tears actually were steadily streaming from her eyes but she was continually trying to both erase them, and also was looking at the tears on her fingertips in a bizarre way, as if trying to figure out what was coming out of her eyes. It was really weird.
There was a moment during the first hearing, when KC was staring down, she raised her arms up slightly in a defensive posture in front of her, and momentarily she really had a searching, confused expression, like "what happened during the past weeks?" Like she was really trying to remember. Her interviews with LE seemed like that, too, more like confusion than any kind of strategic, purposeful lying, because it was things that would be disproved immediately, and that would only discredit her, she had nothing to gain by it.
I have wondered if there could be some disorder at work that causes her actual confusion, or even lost "time" (or for that matter if there was some kind of event to the brain, for example, some injury or drug usage or being drugged by someone else)....Anyway, if she was experiencing real confusion, she could have lost Caylee because of it, could have left her somewhere, in a car, or wherever, or could have been an easy target for the wrong person.
Also, the talk about JG having had to take her to the hospital for a "seizure", I'd like to hear a lot more about this and I wonder what medical tests might reveal.
:)

But from everything I've read up on psychology and behaviors, an innoecnt person who is not lying will whole heartedely defend their innocence especially if they are falsely accused. They become upset and defend their innocence. It has been stated by both LE & DCF that she doesn't exhibit any emotions.

IMO it points more to that she is lying, characteristics I've stated above are common when lying.
 
is it really substantiated that Casey ever wanted to give Caylee up? I think it was only one person's hearsay that this was the case, right? This was KMT who actually said in her interview that she had wanted to adopt Caylee but Casey did not take her up on it.
I always thought it was strange the way KMT changed her story about the recent phone call from KC, saying oh, she'd realized later it was a different Casey who had called saying her boyfriend was abusing her and could she borrow money, etc. Then KMT (or her boyfriend) also refused to provide phone records of the call, if I recall correctly.

I didn't realize that it was just one person behind the adoption story, since it was made such a big deal of in the media I thought they were going on more than that. But, anyway, isn't it possible that Cindy found out about these alleged conversations between KMT and Casey and convinced Casey to not pursue that option.

I know that everyone is saying she's an adult and could/should have made her own decisions. Well, yeah. But, her family obviously did not treat her like an adult and her own former fiance says that she was inclined to be like a chameleon going along with what other people wanted. I don't think it's that big of a leap to think that maybe she was considering not keeping Caylee and the parents easily persuaded her to go ahead with everything.

Ideally, if Casey couldn't handle her role as a parent she would have let her parents become Caylee's legal guardians and maybe even gone on with her life somewhere else. But, we all know that things don't always end with the best outcome all the time. Just like the husband who kills his wife instead of getting a proper divorce and letting her move on. These people, psychopaths for the most part, don't care about anyone else but themselves and don't want what they consider to be their possessions (spouse, child, etc) to live with anyone else.
 
BeanE, yes, check out the interviews for the friends' comments on Casey's style as a mother and whether they think Casey could ever harm Caylee. Seems like they asked most of the friends that at some point in each interview. Don't know if you can also find the Nancy Grace appearances by JG and his father, and the TL roommates, (maybe on youtube?), they have all said that they are stunned, that the KC they knew was a normal, loving mother, would never harm Caylee. In the LE interviews, IIRC, all of the close friends said that Casey had always been a caring and good mother from what they had seen, protective in all the normal ways, concerned for Caylee's safety, not abusive in any way, etc, and that they could not imagine Casey harming Caylee. Despite KC's alleged theft from Amy H, Amy said Casey was a good mother. Out of all the LE interviews the only person I can remember who suggested that KC was anything less than a good mother was the one woman who worked at the tattoo shop, I can't remember her exact words, maybe that she thought KC didn't appear spend enough time with Caylee? In Ryan's interview with LE he did not seem to be all that aware of KC's current life although they had known each other during their school years and still called each other good friends. He said in the past that he was aware that she had told small lies but didn't know it to be anything serious. Ryan seemed to have completely turned on Casey since Cindy's call to him in which she told him that KC was a psychpath, etc. Many of the friends now, after the call from Cindy, the interviews with LE, and the media portrayal of KC, seem to be saying things along the lines of "we had no idea", "this is nothing like the KC we knew", "we don't know what to think", etc. (See for example, the "Nitrous" and "Exit13" interviews here on WS.) One or two friends seem to question the recent influence of TL. Sorry I didn't have time to go comb through the haystacks like you say for page/line numbers last night, went just now to see if I could easily find a few but the interview links on the sticky don't seem to be working. Anyone know why? So, you might have to search the haystacks yourself :(

(anyway, I got off the thread topic here, sorry)
 
But from everything I've read up on psychology and behaviors, an innoecnt person who is not lying will whole heartedely defend their innocence especially if they are falsely accused. They become upset and defend their innocence. It has been stated by both LE & DCF that she doesn't exhibit any emotions.

IMO it points more to that she is lying, characteristics I've stated above are common when lying.

I know what you mean, this, and the fact that she won't or can't provide more information really is bizarre. I still can't figure it out. It's not enough to prove to me that she's a murderer, not that I can rule that possibility out completely, but I still feel there's a lot to this story that isn't known yet. My opinion only. Such a sad case any way you look at it.

One thing about this document that I find encouraging is that her story still remains the same. It could be true.
 
True? Kc wants to work at helping other people find there missing children? from JAIL?
come on, tell us where YOUR child is first! IMO, just keep learning spanish.......
 
BeanE, yes, check out the interviews for the friends' comments on Casey's style as a mother and whether they think Casey could ever harm Caylee. Seems like they asked most of the friends that at some point in each interview. Don't know if you can also find the Nancy Grace appearances by JG and his father, and the TL roommates, (maybe on youtube?), they have all said that they are stunned, that the KC they knew was a normal, loving mother, would never harm Caylee. In the LE interviews, IIRC, all of the close friends said that Casey had always been a caring and good mother from what they had seen, protective in all the normal ways, concerned for Caylee's safety, not abusive in any way, etc, and that they could not imagine Casey harming Caylee. Despite KC's alleged theft from Amy H, Amy said Casey was a good mother. Out of all the LE interviews the only person I can remember who suggested that KC was anything less than a good mother was the one woman who worked at the tattoo shop, I can't remember her exact words, maybe that she thought KC didn't appear spend enough time with Caylee? In Ryan's interview with LE he did not seem to be all that aware of KC's current life although they had known each other during their school years and still called each other good friends. He said in the past that he was aware that she had told small lies but didn't know it to be anything serious. Ryan seemed to have completely turned on Casey since Cindy's call to him in which she told him that KC was a psychpath, etc. Many of the friends now, after the call from Cindy, the interviews with LE, and the media portrayal of KC, seem to be saying things along the lines of "we had no idea", "this is nothing like the KC we knew", "we don't know what to think", etc. (See for example, the "Nitrous" and "Exit13" interviews here on WS.) One or two friends seem to question the recent influence of TL. Sorry I didn't have time to go "comb through the haystacks" like you say for the page/line numbers you wanted last night, went just now to see if I could easily find a few but the interview links on the sticky seem to be down. Anyone know why? So, you might have to comb the haystacks yourself :(

I believe what they were shocked by was that her behavior in the weeks Caylee had been missing was entirely inconsistent with what they would expect from a mother who had a missing child.

*My bolding*
 
Oh, goodie, a thread to mock Casey's and Cindy's blatant lies to DCF!!!!

I had a hard time reading some of this report, as my eyes kept rolling so far back into my head.

I think the one that gets me the most is about how she searched for Caylee, and when that didn't work, she went home and told her parents Caylee was missing. That is so easily discredited. It is like she simply DOES NOT CARE how blatantly she lies, she just does it anyway. And being an advocate for missing children? Yeah, maybe she can go into partnership with Gerry and Kate McCann.

Crazy, crazy stuff...
Lanie

I know right?! I thought Cindy was there during all this too, so WHY would she just sit by and allow Casey to lie to DCF about coming home to tell her parents that Caylee was missing? The whole thing is sickening! :furious: She DOES NOT care how blatently she lies, after all she apparently was allowed to get away with it for YEARS with absolutley no consequences from Cindy and that continues on to this day. (I think G may have tried, but not hard enough)
 
I believe what they were shocked by was that her behavior in the weeks Caylee had been missing was entirely inconsistent with what they would expect from a mother who had a missing child.

*My bolding*

Sure, I would imagine they are completely shocked on a number of levels, that Caylee is missing first of all, shocked at the radical change in KC (i.e. her first jailhouse call with the parents, etc), and also that she (allegedly) didn't tell them anything about Caylee being missing. Though KC has maintained that at that time she still thought she would be getting Caylee back, that she was trying to locate the babysitter through their social circles, or other means, etc.
 
Regarding the role playing, I have wondered about this, too. Her "I love you sweetie, I really do" to Christina in that first jailhouse phone call really was mocking and angry, it made me wonder if this was an imitation of someone she had heard growing up (and I don't necessarily mean one of her parents). You never know. Her smile and wave to her parents in the first hearing had a saccharin, taunting quality. Friends who were interviewed, people who have known her for years, all said, "who is this person, we don't recognize this person at all, KC is not like this at all"....
So I've even wondered if these various personas might actually be more real and separate, i.e. an actual identity problem, dissociative kind of thing.
There are various things that have made me wonder that throughout the case, one very small thing was in that final interview before the last arrest, the way tears actually were steadily streaming from her eyes but she was continually trying to both erase them, and also was looking at the tears on her fingertips in a bizarre way, as if trying to figure out what was coming out of her eyes. It was really weird.
There was a moment during the first hearing, when KC was staring down, she raised her arms up slightly in a defensive posture in front of her, and momentarily she really had a searching, confused expression, like "what happened during the past weeks?" Like she was really trying to remember. Her interviews with LE seemed like that, too, more like confusion than any kind of strategic, purposeful lying, because it was things that would be disproved immediately, and that would only discredit her, she had nothing to gain by it.
I have wondered if there could be some disorder at work that causes her actual confusion, or even lost "time" (or for that matter if there was some kind of event to the brain, for example, some injury or drug usage or being drugged by someone else)....Anyway, if she was experiencing real confusion, she could have lost Caylee because of it, could have left her somewhere, in a car, or wherever, or could have been an easy target for the wrong person.
Also, the talk about JG having had to take her to the hospital for a "seizure", I'd like to hear a lot more about this and I wonder what medical tests might reveal.
But, somehow I think we're unlikely to find out more about this.
Anyway, obviously this is all just one line of speculation, I'm not saying it's true. Just makes me wonder. And excuse my difficulty explaining what I mean, I'm up too late :)

Seagull, do you really remember KC having tears steadily streaming from her eyes the day she was arrested this last time? I barely saw any tears at all, and it seemed contrived to me. Funny how we see things so differently.

I haven't seen any indication of KC displaying symptoms of a dissociative disorder. The psychological thread has lots of good posts regarding her mental state. I believe the consensus is a personality disorder such as NPD or HPD, along with sociopathy, which even CA recognized, per her conversations with Ryan P.
 
Sure, I would imagine they are completely shocked on a number of levels, that Caylee is missing first of all, shocked at the radical change in KC (i.e. her first jailhouse call with the parents, etc), and also that she (allegedly) didn't tell them anything about Caylee being missing. Though KC has maintained that at that time she still thought she would be getting Caylee back, that she was trying to locate the babysitter through their social circles, or other means, etc.

If you don't mind my asking, why do you say that Casey *allegedly* didn't tell any friends about Caylee being missing? Do you know of ANY reason to think that she did tell anyone? I ask because I have heard NOTHING to suggest that she told any friends anything other than the non existent nanny, the beach, with Cindy, theme parks, etc.
 

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