Dissecting the Florida Dept. of Children & Families Reports

[CaliMama]

Personally the "your niece" thing is not a big deal for me anyway. When I am talking to my brother and one of my boys want to say soemthing to him I will say one sec your nephew wants to say soemthing to you. I love my kids would never harm them but that is soemthing i say to him alot. I cant say i would ever call my kids a snot head or anything like that though when talking to one of my friends or b/f though. Althouh I am the mom who is saying come here stinky butt while chasing a baby around the couch to get changed

Yes...and my MIL ALWAYS refers to both my boys as her grandsons and my husband as her son. She never says, "Can I speak to Joe?" when she calls, always "Can I speak to my son?". She does the same thing when talking to my FIL "You're son called." (even though they have two LOL) I think some people/families just have certain ways they communicate and there's really not that much to read into it.

 

[seagull65]

I know what you mean.

I think it was Dante that said that Casey never had any strange behaviors and he never saw her treat Caylee badly, in fact I think he stated it was obvious Casey loved Caylee very much.

I swear I read that one of her friends had stated that Casey had completely changed in the last several months leading up to Caylee's 'disappearance' i.e death.

Thanks Bandit,
If I recall correctly, TL's roommates also said on the NG show that Casey was a good mother, affectionate, cared about Caylee eating healthy, going to bed, always tucked her in with her doll and other toy, etc. JG said that KC was a very good mom who would never harm Caylee in any way, but he believes if Caylee died accidentally, KC might fall apart and not be able to admit that Caylee had died, invent an alternative reality. JG's father said that the KC we've seen in the media, in the jailhouse calls, etc, is not the KC he knows at all, and he said if we could get to the bottom of what has changed her so radically, that might be the answer to where Caylee is or what has happened. (Not an exact quote, that's the gist of what he was sayign on the NG show, IIRC.) The Lake Vaj friends said she never had weird behaviors and never treated Caylee badly at all, that she was a good and protective mom. But that now they have been informed everything she ever said was a lie so now they don't know what to think. RM and AH also said Casey was a good and caring mother and would not hurt Caylee. I never did see an (LE) interview with Iassen (of Lake Vaj group) or JPC (roommate of RM, AH etc), or with Annie.

 

[interested_in_facts]

Yeah I cant say that i know to many people who refer to the kids as "the child" thats the only part that was weird for me. It could be just what was already posted and talking like the people giving the interview but, ehh i donno. I have had to deal with DCFS in FL (long story) and I know I and others who were in the same situation never refered to the kids as "the child" but then again we are not Kc either.

 

[seagull65]

Yes...and my MIL ALWAYS refers to both my boys as her grandsons and my husband as her son. She never says, "Can I speak to Joe?" when she calls, always "Can I speak to my son?". She does the same thing when talking to my FIL "You're son called." (even though they have two LOL) I think some people/families just have certain ways they communicate and there's really not that much to read into it.

That is true, sometimes it's even regional or cultural.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Yeah I cant say that i know to many people who refer to the kids as "the child" thats the only part that was weird for me. It could be just what was already posted and talking like the people giving the interview but, ehh i donno. I have had to deal with DCFS in FL (long story) and I know I and others who were in the same situation never refered to the kids as "the child" but then again we are not Kc either.

True, the main thing that bothers me about the "little snothead" comment is that it was made on a text to Anthony R, the cop that was fired for not coming forth about his relationship with Casey. I don't remember where I read it, but he was also the one that was speaking of how she was feeling tied down,etc. by being a mom, so it just takes on a little extra meaning in light of that IMO. I am a guardian ad litem in my state and you just have to pick up on little things like that when dealing with children, sometimes they end up being relevant, sometimes not.

 

[seagull65]

I know, Pondering. A lot about what AR said in the texts with KC troubled me. But I was more disgusted by his attitude toward KC and her child, and even calling her babysitter "the b..." I didn't actually see anywhere in the texts that KC said she was feeling tied down, HE was the one who was complaining and pressuring her. Then he allegedly wasn't forthcoming about having slept with her, so was fired from the force. Again, I don't like the "snothead" comment at all, it's possible she was totally joking and would never say a term like that to Caylee's face, sometimes 22 year olds might use a term like that jokingly. Or, it could be a term of TR's that she was jokingly using back to him for that reason....personally I wouldn't let my child be around anyone who used those kind of terms toward or around him, but of course it could be totally innocent in this case. IIRC, the other friends said they never heard KC call Caylee by any nickname except Munchkin, never by any negative nicknames. It was my impression that she was proud of Caylee, it appeared that way on her websites, all the pictures, etc.

 

[seagull65]

There was no babysitter, and there is nothing "alleged" about her not telling any of her friends. She didn't tell anybody. I hope you are not accusing her friends of lying. What would be their motivation for that? And what kind of mother doesn't have a near heart attack at the thought they can't locate their child? Looking in social circles? I hope JB comes up with something better than that for the trial. I can't understand why anyone, short of her mother, would defend her. Very telling

But how can you possibly tell who is telling the truth and who isn't? ESP?
I take it for granted that any person in the case could be telling less than the truth, whether that is KC or anyone else. That's not any accusation against anyone. If my child were missing, or the child of anyone I know, I would certainly hope that LE would investigate everyone (including myself)and everything, and not take anyone's statement at face value. That goes without saying. Caylee and KC didn't live in a vaccuum, just the two of them. KC had recently moved out and had Caylee around lots more people than usual, she was living with lots of other people and in contact with lots of people.
Personally, I don't suspect any one of the other players in the case particularly, all are presumed to be innocent of course (Casey is also, until proven guilty), but I will never understand why LE didn't take tracking dogs, and cadaver dogs, to all of the apartments and the vehicles of all the people who lived at all the friends' apartments/houses and other friends who were coming and going also. Innocent people would not mind.
Why confine the investigation to the Anthony's home when KC and Caylee had spent so little time there? Of course it's possible something happened there, but it's not necessarily so.
If it were me I would have had all the vehicles brought to a parking garage and had the dogs inspect them all (without telling the dog handler which car belonged to which person). Just to rule out the possibility of the dogs picking up on any suspicion the handler might have, any inadvertant body language, etc.
I would definitely have had the dogs at every one of the friends' apartments and houses, every place KC had been or was likely to have gone with that child, tracking dogs as well as cadaver dogs, of course Fusion, DRF, etc. All the dumpsters near those places, the grounds, and a general search at Sawgrass with the dogs. Also the house by the towing yard, whatever. The landfills by Lake Vaj house and any others.

It's inconceivable to me why none of this was done. How did they expect to find Caylee? The cadaver dogs didn't alert on anything in the Anthony home, inconclusive in the back yard, so if Caylee is deceased, where did she actually die, where is the crime scene? But that's just my opinion. I would probably also have done luminol in some of the apartments/vehicles where I knew KC had spent time, if possible. Some people say, "But the OCSD don't have unlimited funds! They could never do all that!", but honestly, how many dollars and hours would it take. Not more than a few days, surely. Maybe LE did do all this, I just haven't seen any reports of it.

That said, I do understand the OCSD's difficulties with this case. And I do understand the suspicion toward KCA.

 

[seagull65]

There was no babysitter, and there is nothing "alleged" about her not telling any of her friends. She didn't tell anybody. I hope you are not accusing her friends of lying. What would be their motivation for that? And what kind of mother doesn't have a near heart attack at the thought they can't locate their child? Looking in social circles? I hope JB comes up with something better than that for the trial. I can't understand why anyone, short of her mother, would defend her. Very telling

Actually, I'm not defending KC Anthony at all, I'm discussing what might have happened to Caylee and where she could possibly be. It's about Caylee, not about locking down on one theory and refusing to check out any others. What in the world is your "very telling" comment supposed to mean? Or the other insulting comments?

Yes I am aware how most mothers would react if their child was missing. I am a mother. I think the reaction would probably depend a lot on if the mother thinks the child is in any danger, or is safe with someone she knows. I don't think we know for sure if either of these, or something else, is what happened. My opinion only.

 

[SommerSunshine]

I wanted to say something about the "snot head" comment. I am a young mother (24) I have a 2 year old. He was very wanted by both my husband and I, and I am a very devoted and loving mom. That being said when all this stuff starting coming out about "OMG, she called her child a snot head how horrible, what mom would do that?" I took a step back and I recalled so many times while talking to my friends or even my mom/grandma I have called my son all kinds of things that could be taken the wrong way. So while I'm not saying it doesn't have anything to do with her attitude and they way she looked at things; I certainly don't think it implicates her or makes her a bad mom. I am however trying to watch what I say to people out of fear things may be taken out of context. I'll just stick with calling him a "monkey"!

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Panther, some of those old posts could even be mine that you are referring to. Haven't I been following this case here as long as you? I was there for the early discussions, and I have read the old threads. I was obviously only responding to questions and comments others raised here and the general discussion here due to this document. (???)

So, then, what is allowed to be discussed now? Clearly we can't discuss the theory that KC murdered Caylee, right, since that has already been discussed? Or is that exempt from the 'already discussed' rule?

It's very rare for me to get snarky, but please look again at your post. It really surprised me.

Perhaps Pink is directing you to other threads since this thread is about "Dissecting the DCF reports". MOO

 

[Oakley]

Although I think the "snothead" thing could possibly have been made too much of. I don't like the use of a term like "little snothead" at all myself and could never use a name like that in speaking to or about a child, but I've heard lots of young parents use a lot of terms like that nowadays that I don't like, like "come here stinky butt, you're a stinky butt" when a child needs to be changed, "hey little snot head, let me clean your nose", etc, using these terms jokingly, not hatefully. (Like I say, I can't stand it myself, but it's possible that KC was jokingly using this term in that one text/email, or using a term that TR had used himself. Her friends say she usually called Caylee "munchkin".)
The thing about the term "that child", the writer of this report says she used that term and that the writer(s) wondered if it might have indicated a certain amount of detachment, they didn't say it necessarily was that way.... I wondered if maybe she was just using the same terms they were using as they were explaining the various neglect terms and charges, in other words, not thinking these really apply to Caylee but just talking about neglect charges in general, "a child", "said child", "that child".... (I don't know though)

But I was struck by the "my daughter" during the jailhouse call. I know if I were talking to my old friend about my own child I would be using his name. Saying "my son" would seem unnatural and stilted.

We have to remember the context under which KC used "the little snothead" was texting Tony R. She couldn't find a babysitter so asked him if she could bring "the little snot head." It wasn't a wipe her nose or change her diaper situation. KC wanted to go on a date and didn't know what to do with Caylee (so sad.) It speaks of motive to me.

 

[JBean]

Come on. Please stay on topic and stop bickering.

 

[Oakley]

Thanks Bandit,
If I recall correctly, TL's roommates also said on the NG show that Casey was a good mother, affectionate, cared about Caylee eating healthy, going to bed, always tucked her in with her doll and other toy, etc. JG said that KC was a very good mom who would never harm Caylee in any way, but he believes if Caylee died accidentally, KC might fall apart and not be able to admit that Caylee had died, invent an alternative reality. JG's father said that the KC we've seen in the media, in the jailhouse calls, etc, is not the KC he knows at all, and he said if we could get to the bottom of what has changed her so radically, that might be the answer to where Caylee is or what has happened. (Not an exact quote, that's the gist of what he was sayign on the NG show, IIRC.) The Lake Vaj friends said she never had weird behaviors and never treated Caylee badly at all, that she was a good and protective mom. But that now they have been informed everything she ever said was a lie so now they don't know what to think. RM and AH also said Casey was a good and caring mother and would not hurt Caylee. I never did see an (LE) interview with Iassen (of Lake Vaj group) or JPC (roommate of RM, AH etc), or with Annie.

(Bold is mine.)

Maybe what happened to her was, as LP stated on NG, the night of the 15th that horrific fight with CA over the money KC stole from her grandparents. LP stated that the fight was so intense that CA literally had her hands around KC's throat and it freaked her out as that had never happened before. Maybe that did it?

 

[Searchfortruth]

p.07/15 (2255) par.1

"She stated she (KC) has enjoyed working with all the agencies and volunteers looking for her child and that is going to be her new vocation in life."

Perhaps in addition to becoming a lawyer like JB? I think this is an example of how KC tries to emulate and woo whomever she is trying to manipulate and convince her lies to.

She has enjoyed WORKING WITH all of the agencies and volunteers looking for her child ???? When did she ever work with anyone that tried to find Caylee ?

 

[cecybeans]

She has enjoyed WORKING WITH all of the agencies and volunteers looking for her child ???? When did she ever work with anyone that tried to find Caylee ?

She and her mom are INCREDIBLE visualizers...

 

[LolaMoon08]

Found this thread while poking around... and completely forgot that Casey had claimed that Caylee's father had set up a trust fund for Caylee... It also found it hilarious that she claimed that she didn't care what LE said... she was an employee at Universal and had time cards to prove it.

Anyone know if anyone from DCF is on the witness list? I'll have to go and check.

ETA: Yes, both Dawn Murray of DCF and William Procknow of DCF are both on the States witness list.

Which brings an interesting aspect to what is going on with the defense trying to get statements made by Casey Anthony thrown out. How likely is it that this report from DCF will be seen by the jury? How much can these two employees talk about what Casey said when they were with her? Would it be considered hearsay (which I am still sometimes confused about?)?

 

[manatee]

Found this thread while poking around... and completely forgot that Casey had claimed that Caylee's father had set up a trust fund for Caylee... It also found it hilarious that she claimed that she didn't care what LE said... she was an employee at Universal and had time cards to prove it.

Anyone know if anyone from DCF is on the witness list? I'll have to go and check.

ETA: Yes, both Dawn Murray of DCF and William Procknow of DCF are both on the States witness list.

Which brings an interesting aspect to what is going on with the defense trying to get statements made by Casey Anthony thrown out. How likely is it that this report from DCF will be seen by the jury? How much can these two employees talk about what Casey said when they were with her? Would it be considered hearsay (which I am still sometimes confused about?)?

Yeap! I brought this up on the thread about the defense wanting to have KC's Universal Interview stricken from evidence. everything she attested to at universal she also told DCF and it will be easy for the state to prove all her lies. No worries!

 

[Intermezzo]

Or she could have a "faulty definition" and thinks it means seasonings like condiments and that's why she peppers her statements with lies and we have to take them with a grain of salt while she hopes to cut the mustard hoping that this is her gravy train



:bang:

:floorlaugh:

 

[AZlawyer]

Found this thread while poking around... and completely forgot that Casey had claimed that Caylee's father had set up a trust fund for Caylee... It also found it hilarious that she claimed that she didn't care what LE said... she was an employee at Universal and had time cards to prove it.

Anyone know if anyone from DCF is on the witness list? I'll have to go and check.

ETA: Yes, both Dawn Murray of DCF and William Procknow of DCF are both on the States witness list.

Which brings an interesting aspect to what is going on with the defense trying to get statements made by Casey Anthony thrown out. How likely is it that this report from DCF will be seen by the jury? How much can these two employees talk about what Casey said when they were with her? Would it be considered hearsay (which I am still sometimes confused about?)?

I bet the DCF worker will be called to testify about Casey's statements to him. (Normally this would be hearsay, but statements of the defendant are generally excluded from the hearsay rule). He can use his report to refresh his recollection.

 

[ynotdivein]

If the DCF folks are called to testify, will they be allowed to testify to items beyond literally "what KC said to them"? Because, while they don't demonstrate the report-writing skills of say, a Yuri Melich or John Allen, they do record observations of behaviors that go to KC's demeanor and her interactions with her mother in their presence.

(Does that make sense? It's been a long day and my most recent cup of coffee is hours in the past...)