Do you guys think AB and EB killed Zahra?

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What if...Eb told Ab Zahra was going into puberty and being broody. He looks into her room where EB had formed blankets to look like Zahra was in the bed. He did say the last time he SAW Zahra out of bed was thursday. She may have told him not to bother her she had a virus and needed to sleep...I know im probley reaching but something deep down makes me believe him...JMO

Actually he said - For sure?? 100% out of bed? .. Tuesday - the reporter reminded him it was supposed to be Thursday, he gave a nervous chortle and thanked her for reminding him.
 
Actually he said - For sure?? 100% out of bed? .. Tuesday - the reporter reminded him it was supposed to be Thursday, he gave a nervous chortle and thanked her for reminding him.

LCM, of everything that's come out in this case, that one item has all my hinky flags up.

He last 100% saw her out of bed Tuesday? Which Tuesday? Oh right, he meant to say Thursday. (Oh and what a lesson for that interviewer. What might he have revealed, had she not immediately corrected him to "Thursday".)

IMO, AB has a "Tuesday" ingrained as the last day he knows 100% he saw Zahra "out of bed" and now I just want to know: WHICH Tuesday?
 
LCM, of everything that's come out in this case, that one item has all my hinky flags up.

He last 100% saw her out of bed Tuesday? Which Tuesday? Oh right, he meant to say Thursday. (Oh and what a lesson for that interviewer. What might he have revealed, had she not immediately corrected him to "Thursday".)

IMO, AB has a "Tuesday" ingrained as the last day he knows 100% he saw Zahra "out of bed" and now I just want to know: WHICH Tuesday?

Again speculation here. It may be that when interviewed from LE he told the truth, all of it as he knows it to be. With where he seen her 100% out of bed was Tuesday. When he checked on her and believed her to be in bed was Thursday. LE has said for him not to give out any information. Yet he let it slip on that one. I think he wants to tell everyone everything, he just can not. If he does he risks this entire case. JMO.
 
JMOO, how many times do we see '2 people kill' ALLOT.

Mother,son combo
Husband,wife combo
BF,GF combo
Father,son combo
Brother's combo
Cousin's combo
and so on...........

1 alone may not do it, but 2 that have the same psyco problems seem to 'enhance'
each others BAD side...........I do think this happened in Zahra's case!
 
LCM, of everything that's come out in this case, that one item has all my hinky flags up.

He last 100% saw her out of bed Tuesday? Which Tuesday? Oh right, he meant to say Thursday. (Oh and what a lesson for that interviewer. What might he have revealed, had she not immediately corrected him to "Thursday".)

IMO, AB has a "Tuesday" ingrained as the last day he knows 100% he saw Zahra "out of bed" and now I just want to know: WHICH Tuesday?

Tuesdays after Sept. 25 and prior to Oct.9:

Sept. 28 (shortly after furniture store sighting)
Oct. 5 (close to the timeframe given in MSM for mattress being discarded)
 
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sea...tab=9482930&section=1206852&playlist=11128107

Listen carefully and watch the body language..

at 1:32 in the vid

EB looks again to be gesturing angrily towards someone with while being arrested

Eb2point.jpg


EB2.jpg



4:22 Didn't check on Zahra directly after the fire? + AB's answer...

ABEYESDOWN.jpg



3;07 Have you ruled out Mr.Baker as a suspect? LE's answer

ruledoutmrbaker.jpg


3:44 Questioning Ab about checking on Zahra it he middle of the night. AB looks down...

"You Didn't go in there and check as well?"

ABfirefighterscalltohouse.jpg



All the inconsistencies in a row (whole video) ...

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sea...tab=9482930&section=1206852&playlist=11128107

IMHO Karma will be calling on both of them.
 
Something has been bugging me about the family saying they called DSS. It has bugged me from the beginning. Then out of the blue this morning it dawned on me I wouldn't call DSS, I would call CPS. Why did they call DSS and not CPS?
 
What if...Eb told Ab Zahra was going into puberty and being broody. He looks into her room where EB had formed blankets to look like Zahra was in the bed. He did say the last time he SAW Zahra out of bed was thursday. She may have told him not to bother her she had a virus and needed to sleep...I know im probley reaching but something deep down makes me believe him...JMO

I can see EB telling AB that she was going through puberty thus accounting for his acceptance of her staying in her room. For many males this is out of their comfort zone and can see EB making these comments to cover for many things. Telling AB that she fell thus the black eye etc.
Not seeing a child from Thursday for individuals that work long hours is not unusual. Often during peak seasons my husband was either out of town for weeks on end, or left early in the morning and arrived well after they were in bed, many families deal with this thus the mother is the main care giver
Maybe AB was sleeping and it was EB that was not sleeping accounting for the AB stating the dogs woke him
If AB is with the fire department it would not be unusual for just one parent to check on a child in this case EB and i would expect that LE did indeed ask for her to be checked on. If my child was 10 years old and woke up to a fire they would come asking what was going on so not unusual to think she could not of slept through it. One could sleep through WW3 the other wakes at the drop of a pin
I would think it to be possible that neither AB or EB saw the note once in LE hands as it now becomes evidence
If LE asked that the child be checked on and EB did and said she is fine, they by now know that the bosses daughter is ok i would not see any reason for LE to pursue it
As for waking the entire neighbourhood we do not know how severe the fire was. I get the impression that there was the potential for it to get out of control but if the fire department responded quickly and it was a relatively contained fire i know i would not be running around knocking on neighbours doors. If it was out of control or moving rapidly then yes i would be raising the alarm. My impression is that this was not an out of control fire from the reports
After the fire was put out i would also understand AB going back to bed nothing unusual there until getting up and going back to work
I do not find it unusual for AB to check the house or surrounding area prior to calling LE. I know i would
I do not see why AB would note a new mattress if it is on the bed covered in sheets. I know my husband does not go and look under the sheets every time he walks into a house to see if there is a new mattress. For that matter he can walk right by something that is new especially coming home late usually after dark and leaving at sunrise. Amazing what you do not see when tired
If EB had done clean up/cover up or if AB had not been in the room or away from the home he probably would not of seen blood/body fluid etc. My husband comes into a mud room changes out of work clothes and in the early am changes back into work clothes in the mud room so as not to wake anyone often without lights on
Interesting that those that saw the abuse said EB did this or did that. I have not seen one report where it says that AB and EB did this or that. That stands out to me. I may of missed some coverage but every person that has spoken that i recall has not said they saw AB abuse her physically her just EB. This does not mean that he did not know or turn a blind eye
Did EB go back to bed after the fire or did she state she would stay up to make sure all was well. We do not know. AB stated that he woke up and went to work. How many husbands go in and check on their children every time they leave for work or arrive home from work late at night?
Everyone responds differently in situations. Considering it was the middle of the day i think my mind would be thinking that maybe they were at a friends or in this case ran away. I know in situations i have been surprised at how calm i was till after the event then my knees buckled, it was like i was on automation dealing with things calmly then falling to pieces afterwards
As for the interview AB gave with LE, i suspect he was given pretty strict guidelines as to what could and could not be said. As for whether or not they are crocodile tears or not i do not know. He strikes me as a person that does not display alot of emotion at the best of times
This is not to say that i do not think of all the things that have been expressed or things i have not thought of myself. Simply saying that some of these things could be easily explained and this is simply MOO Maybe i am trying to make things simplistic out of the incredible
 
I can see EB telling AB that she was going through puberty thus accounting for his acceptance of her staying in her room. For many males this is out of their comfort zone and can see EB making these comments to cover for many things. Telling AB that she fell thus the black eye etc.
Not seeing a child from Thursday for individuals that work long hours is not unusual. Often during peak seasons my husband was either out of town for weeks on end, or left early in the morning and arrived well after they were in bed, many families deal with this thus the mother is the main care giver
Maybe AB was sleeping and it was EB that was not sleeping accounting for the AB stating the dogs woke him
If AB is with the fire department it would not be unusual for just one parent to check on a child in this case EB and i would expect that LE did indeed ask for her to be checked on. If my child was 10 years old and woke up to a fire they would come asking what was going on so not unusual to think she could not of slept through it. One could sleep through WW3 the other wakes at the drop of a pin
I would think it to be possible that neither AB or EB saw the note once in LE hands as it now becomes evidence
If LE asked that the child be checked on and EB did and said she is fine, they by now know that the bosses daughter is ok i would not see any reason for LE to pursue it
As for waking the entire neighbourhood we do not know how severe the fire was. I get the impression that there was the potential for it to get out of control but if the fire department responded quickly and it was a relatively contained fire i know i would not be running around knocking on neighbours doors. If it was out of control or moving rapidly then yes i would be raising the alarm. My impression is that this was not an out of control fire from the reports
After the fire was put out i would also understand AB going back to bed nothing unusual there until getting up and going back to work
I do not find it unusual for AB to check the house or surrounding area prior to calling LE. I know i would
I do not see why AB would note a new mattress if it is on the bed covered in sheets. I know my husband does not go and look under the sheets every time he walks into a house to see if there is a new mattress. For that matter he can walk right by something that is new especially coming home late usually after dark and leaving at sunrise. Amazing what you do not see when tired
If EB had done clean up/cover up or if AB had not been in the room or away from the home he probably would not of seen blood/body fluid etc. My husband comes into a mud room changes out of work clothes and in the early am changes back into work clothes in the mud room so as not to wake anyone often without lights on
Interesting that those that saw the abuse said EB did this or did that. I have not seen one report where it says that AB and EB did this or that. That stands out to me. I may of missed some coverage but every person that has spoken that i recall has not said they saw AB abuse her physically her just EB. This does not mean that he did not know or turn a blind eye
Did EB go back to bed after the fire or did she state she would stay up to make sure all was well. We do not know. AB stated that he woke up and went to work. How many husbands go in and check on their children every time they leave for work or arrive home from work late at night?
Everyone responds differently in situations. Considering it was the middle of the day i think my mind would be thinking that maybe they were at a friends or in this case ran away. I know in situations i have been surprised at how calm i was till after the event then my knees buckled, it was like i was on automation dealing with things calmly then falling to pieces afterwards
As for the interview AB gave with LE, i suspect he was given pretty strict guidelines as to what could and could not be said. As for whether or not they are crocodile tears or not i do not know. He strikes me as a person that does not display alot of emotion at the best of times
This is not to say that i do not think of all the things that have been expressed or things i have not thought of myself. Simply saying that some of these things could be easily explained and this is simply MOO Maybe i am trying to make things simplistic out of the incredible

JMO this is a great post and you said it in a way I think I have been trying to but so much better! Everything that Ive seen about AB can be ruled out so SIMPLY. I think thats why I think he didnt do it. Hes a simple guy and I think people tearing apart his statements are putting way too much into it. I think EB wanted them both out of her life for what ever reason. I think she wanted Zahra gone because she took too much of the limelight off EB thus kill her. Try to put it all onto AB he goes to prison and if he gets out hes deported. problem solved. I think she started out thinking Z would bring sympathy and attention her way but instead of a sickly girl she could show everyone and get sympathy for taking care of she got a strong little fireball willing to fight anything and everything to get better. We already know she canges men like soiled socks so wanting to get rid of AB isnt suprising. I think she is enjoying the attention shes getting now and thats why shes spreading it out as thin as she can telling LE bits and pieces at a time.
 
I can see EB telling AB that she was going through puberty thus accounting for his acceptance of her staying in her room. For many males this is out of their comfort zone and can see EB making these comments to cover for many things. Telling AB that she fell thus the black eye etc.
Not seeing a child from Thursday for individuals that work long hours is not unusual. Often during peak seasons my husband was either out of town for weeks on end, or left early in the morning and arrived well after they were in bed, many families deal with this thus the mother is the main care giver
Maybe AB was sleeping and it was EB that was not sleeping accounting for the AB stating the dogs woke him
If AB is with the fire department it would not be unusual for just one parent to check on a child in this case EB and i would expect that LE did indeed ask for her to be checked on. If my child was 10 years old and woke up to a fire they would come asking what was going on so not unusual to think she could not of slept through it. One could sleep through WW3 the other wakes at the drop of a pin
I would think it to be possible that neither AB or EB saw the note once in LE hands as it now becomes evidence
If LE asked that the child be checked on and EB did and said she is fine, they by now know that the bosses daughter is ok i would not see any reason for LE to pursue it
As for waking the entire neighbourhood we do not know how severe the fire was. I get the impression that there was the potential for it to get out of control but if the fire department responded quickly and it was a relatively contained fire i know i would not be running around knocking on neighbours doors. If it was out of control or moving rapidly then yes i would be raising the alarm. My impression is that this was not an out of control fire from the reports
After the fire was put out i would also understand AB going back to bed nothing unusual there until getting up and going back to work
I do not find it unusual for AB to check the house or surrounding area prior to calling LE. I know i would
I do not see why AB would note a new mattress if it is on the bed covered in sheets. I know my husband does not go and look under the sheets every time he walks into a house to see if there is a new mattress. For that matter he can walk right by something that is new especially coming home late usually after dark and leaving at sunrise. Amazing what you do not see when tired
If EB had done clean up/cover up or if AB had not been in the room or away from the home he probably would not of seen blood/body fluid etc. My husband comes into a mud room changes out of work clothes and in the early am changes back into work clothes in the mud room so as not to wake anyone often without lights on
Interesting that those that saw the abuse said EB did this or did that. I have not seen one report where it says that AB and EB did this or that. That stands out to me. I may of missed some coverage but every person that has spoken that i recall has not said they saw AB abuse her physically her just EB. This does not mean that he did not know or turn a blind eye
Did EB go back to bed after the fire or did she state she would stay up to make sure all was well. We do not know. AB stated that he woke up and went to work. How many husbands go in and check on their children every time they leave for work or arrive home from work late at night?
Everyone responds differently in situations. Considering it was the middle of the day i think my mind would be thinking that maybe they were at a friends or in this case ran away. I know in situations i have been surprised at how calm i was till after the event then my knees buckled, it was like i was on automation dealing with things calmly then falling to pieces afterwards
As for the interview AB gave with LE, i suspect he was given pretty strict guidelines as to what could and could not be said. As for whether or not they are crocodile tears or not i do not know. He strikes me as a person that does not display alot of emotion at the best of times
This is not to say that i do not think of all the things that have been expressed or things i have not thought of myself. Simply saying that some of these things could be easily explained and this is simply MOO Maybe i am trying to make things simplistic out of the incredible

In the GMA interview, AB says that he arrived home shortly before 2 pm. and was working in the yard when EB comes out to tell him Zahra is missing. He goes on to say that he searched the house and canvassed the neighborhood looking for his daughter before calling police.

The 911 call was logged in at 1:58 pm.

That's a miraculously quick search, don't you think?
 
I am glad to see that I am not the only person here that really question's AB's involvement in Zahra's death. The last two posts were written well and in a way how I see AB. I think he took EB's word on things and never question her.

I'm not completly convinced he is NOT involved, I guess I am still on the fence.

I find it of interest that the places they found Zahra just happened to be EB's old stomping grounds, where she grew up etc.....

In my heart I just do not want AB to be involved and it may very well be clouding my judgement to this case.

I think soon we will have some answers, and we will all know more then we want to I am sure.....
 


JMO this is a great post and you said it in a way I think I have been trying to but so much better! Everything that Ive seen about AB can be ruled out so SIMPLY. I think thats why I think he didnt do it. Hes a simple guy and I think people tearing apart his statements are putting way too much into it. I think EB wanted them both out of her life for what ever reason. I think she wanted Zahra gone because she took too much of the limelight off EB thus kill her. Try to put it all onto AB he goes to prison and if he gets out hes deported. problem solved. I think she started out thinking Z would bring sympathy and attention her way but instead of a sickly girl she could show everyone and get sympathy for taking care of she got a strong little fireball willing to fight anything and everything to get better. We already know she canges men like soiled socks so wanting to get rid of AB isnt suprising. I think she is enjoying the attention shes getting now and thats why shes spreading it out as thin as she can telling LE bits and pieces at a time.

I understand what you are both are saying about AB and his part in this. I try to look at these cases as a potential juror, weighing the evidence that we've been presented, trying to sleuth things that we have not been made privy to, and what determination I would make regarding a person's guilt based on that.

We have seen nothing so far that points directly to AB's guilt or knowledge of what happened to Zahra. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, we just have not been presented with it yet. The timeline is critical and that is why LE have spent so much time investigating it.

I agree with both of you that AB's timeline from Thursday to Saturday can be explained away very easily by a good defense lawyer. It is not at all unusual for a father working long hours in general labor jobs to have no contact with his children for days on end. They get up early and come home late and they are very tired when they do get home and don't take time to check on the children, they might ask how things are going, but they don't check to make sure the kids are in the house and aren't missing or murdered. They rely on their wives to be taking care of things on the home front, especially a stay at home wife who has made the raising of the children her full time job. There has to be a big level of trust for this to work out and unfortunately AB may just have trusted the wrong person with the care of his daughter. He was used to having his mother take care of Zahra's daily needs and he probably did just assume that EB, a woman who had raised two daughters already, would handle things just fine.

To say that he should have seen things, as a parent yes he absolutely should have, and while I'm sure at times he had nagging doubts, he may have just chosen to trust in EB and believe the carp she was dishing out. EB seems to be a very skilled manipulative sociopath, so she could easily have deflected any negative information that was being fed to AB via others. We have to consider that AB was really only around EB and her family for about 15 months and I'm sure that in the beginning, everyone was going along with her lies and nonsense. But when things started to come out and perhaps AB started questioning the situation, they made arrangements to move and seemed to have broken ties with the whole family. No doubt that was EB's decision and I can almost hear the whining and carrying on about how they all are against her and they don't want her to be happy so they are all lying and saying bad things about her so AB will hate her too.

So far, everything I've read points to EB being one scary and unpredictable individual. I can see at this point her being solely responsible or having manipulated someone completely out of the picture here to help her dispose of Zahra. However, if the evidence points to a timeline for Zahra's death being prior to whenever AB claims he last saw Zahra up and awake on the Thursday, then I will consider AB to be an even scarier and sicker individual for having attempted to pull off this innocent act in the face of his own daughter's death, dismemberment and disposal.

MOO
 
Looking at EB, and hearing different things from various people. She liked to tell tales. She also seemed sociable. In these last months it seems far different. She seems more alienated from family and friends. She seems more aggressive and angry. Could it be trying to keep certain lies from coming out to AB was becoming more and more difficult for her? In turn she was the one alienated? I'm trying to get a mindset for the time frame here.
 
I am glad to see that I am not the only person here that really question's AB's involvement in Zahra's death. The last two posts were written well and in a way how I see AB. I think he took EB's word on things and never question her.

I'm not completly convinced he is NOT involved, I guess I am still on the fence.

I find it of interest that the places they found Zahra just happened to be EB's old stomping grounds, where she grew up etc.....

In my heart I just do not want AB to be involved and it may very well be clouding my judgement to this case.

I think soon we will have some answers, and we will all know more then we want to I am sure.....



What about Neglicent homicide or Neglicent manslaughter! He is guilty of something as i see it!!!! I wouldnt let him off so easy! JMO
 
ty Kamille for your thoughtful post. This is also my struggle with AB. My husband is self employed construction contractor. This work is physical and sometimes, like now, he works daytime on one job and then evenings on another, the competion out there is tough right now because of the economy. Every Tom Dick and Harry who has found himself unemployed has suddenly become a "contractor" and is out there underbidding the actual carpenters etc. So when an opportunity to work arises, despite the fact that you may just break even, you gotta take it.

Many blue collar guys that I know, including DH, are gone before the kids rise and are home after their chirldren are abed. DH does not peek in on them when he arrives after a long day. He is dirty, smelly, and heads for the shower, and then bed. He relies heavily on me to handle the kids, homework, school contact, etc. My DH loves our children, but he could not name our kids teachers. That falls under my job description.

It is the division of roles in my home and many others.

I am angry at AB for putting Zahra in this position. I am angry over reports that he "let" EB handle the discipline of Zahra according to some witnesses even so far as abuse. This makes me very upset with him and I want him held accountable.

I have a hard time figuring out what I feel was AB's level of involvement. I can find nothing to make 100% genuinely certain that he knew beforehand or was part of some plan.

The thing that prevents me from being able to commit to the stance that AB knew nothing is the multiple dumpsites and the dog hits on BOTH vehicles. I find it hard to imagine two seperate trips in two vehicles by one person at separate times to dump dismembered body parts. That just doesn't fit for me. In the words of Judge Judy - If it doesn't makes sense, it isn't true.

Some have suggested that perhpas AB's company vehicle was used to haul and dump the matress, thereby explaining the hit on it by the dogs. This makes no sense to me as I believe, based on LE interest in and removal of the dumpster from the business right near Baker home, that the matress was hand carried/dragged to that dumpster and no vehicle was needed to accomplish that.

SO there you have it. I do not want to jump on any bandwagons perematurely and I want to afford a grieving father some dignity if that is indeed what he is but while I have no facts to base AB's possible guilt on, his behavior, statements, etc. after the case broke trouble me immensely.

ME ----> stymied.
 
I wish I had a long thoughtful post in mind. I don't.

I think AB is guilty as all get out. And I could point to example after example of things that have lead me to suspect him. It isn't each separate thing that points to his guilt, imo...it's the whole of these things taken together.

Having said that, with just the information I've been given, I couldn't convict him in a court of law. So, I understand and respect other WSers who aren't willing or able to form conclusions about his guilt or innocence.
 
---snipped from post---

Some have suggested that perhpas AB's company vehicle was used to haul and dump the matress, thereby explaining the hit on it by the dogs. This makes no sense to me as I believe, based on LE interest in and removal of the dumpster from the business right near Baker home, that the matress was hand carried/dragged to that dumpster and no vehicle was needed to accomplish that.

quote]

...the bond reduction motion reads that "EB directed LE to the site of the specific dumpster where the mattress had been disposed".

...the mattress was located at the caldwell county landfill,the dumpster LE had hauled away earlier was located in catawba county.

...i don't know the distance between the 2 counties---anyone ??

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13297637

Meanwhile on Tuesday afternoon, a mattress fitting the description of Zahra Baker's was found at the Caldwell County landfill that was searched for 4 days last week. DNA was on the mattress, police said.

"This mattress possessed DNA evidence that will be tested in the future to confirm if it is involved with this investigation," Hickory police said in a statement.

motion:
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/111510+elisa+baker+bond+redux.pdf
 
has anyone ever determined if the dumpster located near to the 21st street home would be emptied into a truck that dumps at the landfill where the matress (as yet unconfirmed to have been Zahra's) was located?
 
has anyone ever determined if the dumpster located near to the 21st street home would be emptied into a truck that dumps at the landfill where the matress (as yet unconfirmed to have been Zahra's) was located?

I think we're still unclear on that point, TL. Initially,the landfill where the dumpster was recovered only served 3 counties, Catawba not being one of them. But then we found a rezoning order (or something like that) that extended the service areas to 5 counties, instead of just the 3. I haven't been able to determine if Catawba was included in the additional 2 counties added.

(Does that sound horribly confusing? Sorry. Kinda brain dead at this point.)

ETA: I do know that EB took investigators to 3 search sites. Christie was one, and Dudley Shoals was one, but I have no idea what the 3rd. site was. I've heard others say that it was a dumpster somewhere, but I've never been able to confirm that via msm.
 
ty MK, my brain is mush as well.

It may be time for me to spend a little less time on the zahra threads and step back, take a moment to check up on my other special angel threads.

This one is going to slow down considerably if past experience is any clue.
 
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