Do you guys think AB and EB killed Zahra?

[athy]

While there is a possibility of someone else being involved. I don't believe someone else did this without their knowledge because it seems that any "evidence" that has been found was found near one of the places EB use to live. They were found in an area she would be familiar with and also she led them to the areas. If another person had done this they would have had to know enough about EB to know those areas and want to pin this on them.

 

[LCoastMom]

Please don't misinterpret what I am trying to say. In NO WAY am I insinuating we turn the other cheek.

I just wonder if they could have been involved in something much deeper that could have put Zahra in danger and then they panicked and tried to cover for what had happened so they could deflect the blame?????

Not that I think AB is not guilty, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around a father doing something so despicable and evil to his own daughter?

Casey Anthony is charged with the murder of her baby girl who was found with three pieces of duct tape wrapped around her skull.

Baby Brianna a 4 month old from New Mexico - well look for yourself -

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkSN65cJKOE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkSN65cJKOE[/ame]

you're right a father can't do these things - but where have we heard AB acted like a father?

 

[justus4all]

My thoughts...TODAY...at this moment...(but may change as more information is revealed).....think that.....

IMO.....They HAD to reduce her body to just pieces...(sorry to be graphic)..for the reason being ...they HAD done something to CAUSE her death..

I am still of the opinion they tried "surgery" to remove her infected/absessed/ leg and the blood loss from it caused her death...

and then...(sorry...graphic here) the chipper was used...to prevent discovery of the surgery attempt...

If her body was found all intact...and her leg missing...it may reflect suspicion on them..

Also, the police Press conference said....paraphrased...They had recovered ENOUGH of her to be fairly certain it was her....That makes me feel they did not have..ALL OF HER.(her complete body missing her leg)......So I believe there were parts of her..shredded..but her skull was intact...and the ME could make the statement it was a CHILD....I doubt if her skull was not there..it would be difficult for the ME to look at just shredded tissue and claim it WAS a child...Something had to be present to identify it as a CHILD...therefore the skull...

Also, I noted, perhaps others as well...they are NOT saying they DISCOVERED her BODY...ONLY saying..REMAINS....NOT SAYING ..BONES........YET...the discovery of the prostectic leg and the other remain...they are CLAIMING that was a BONE...

It is telling to me..how they are carefully..selecting..their WORDS..on what is being discovered....

Because of the fact...and again..IMO...that the prostectic leg and bone were recovered a distant away.for the "burial site"..leads me to think...they had tried the "surgery"..and that failed..and after the clean up..those items were discovered LATER..after the "burial" and they did not want to go "dig up" the remains..to include it...so they just dumped it elsewhere on their route to somewhere else....(I am trying to think logical here...)

Also my thought on the "surgery" ...If they COULD use a powered cutting device...power saw, jig saw, to remove the rest of her leg.....It's just one more step to using something to "shread" her...(soo sorry on the graphic)..
Perhaps to them in their sick minds..."eliminating her body to just (sorry to be graphic here again) "trash" they could just convince themselves..she truly was gone..and out of their lives....NO ONE could find her....and (to these monsters) they could just continue their lives...
again...I apologize for the "gore" described...but this could have been a possibility with what happened to Zahra....God rest her little soul...She was a little fighter for sure..moo

 

[Amity]

There is also the statement from Elisa that "we didn't really kill her...." which could be pretty close to the truth. Zahra could have been seriously ill from a virus, became dehydrated.

Respectfully snipped and above BBM

TxLady,
Your post could very well be an explanation.
This week has been a trying one for me and my family but because of it, I have some actual experience with this.

My sister, a very active and young-acting fifty year old, came home from work, pulled into her driveway, was getting out of the car when she fell forward onto her face.
Her right leg gave out and from her explanation, she couldn't feel her right leg or most of her right side.
She was light-headed, nauseated and started vomiting.
Her husband, who works nights, wondered what was taking her so long to get into the house after he heard her car drive into the driveway.
He looked outside from second story bedroom window, saw her laying face down on the driveway and rushed downstairs to her.

Long story short......
After tons of test, most to determine if she had suffered a stroke, blood work, CT scan, Liver tests, etc. Loma Linda hospital DX'd it as "Clinical Dehydration".

So what caused it?
More tests and final outcome: the breast cancer she fought so hard to win 6 years ago (double mastec) has returned and it's in her left lung, stage four.
No symptoms prior, whatsoever!

NOT that I am excusing those two um....'people' from doing what most of us know they did to precious Zahra, but just throwing this out there, Devil's Advocate style, to let you know, Yes, it does happen that fast.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I've been lurking for most of this case. Just coming out to play devil's advocate.

So, what if neither AB nor EB killed Zahra? What other scenarios are possible? I'm interested to see what all your brilliant minds come up with.

FYI - I am NOT advocating that either are innocent. Just looking for other directions of thought...

Early on, in order to exhaust all possibilities, I attempted to follow this train of thought. The facts stopped me short. EB and AB are all about EB and AB...neither one of them would even think about going down for covering up a crime that they themselves didn't commit. They are BOTH in deep doo doo now, and they know it. If there WERE someone else they could hang this on, they would have sang like birds by now.

 

[nosysw]

Respectfully snipped and above BBM

TxLady,
Your post could very well be an explanation.
This week has been a trying one for me and my family but because of it, I have some actual experience with this.

My sister, a very active and young-acting fifty year old, came home from work, pulled into her driveway, was getting out of the car when she fell forward onto her face.
Her right leg gave out and from her explanation, she couldn't feel her right leg or most of her right side.
She was light-headed, nauseated and started vomiting.
Her husband, who works nights, wondered what was taking her so long to get into the house after he heard her car drive into the driveway.
He looked outside from second story bedroom window, saw her laying face down on the driveway and rushed downstairs to her.

Long story short......
After tons of test, most to determine if she had suffered a stroke, blood work, CT scan, Liver tests, etc. Loma Linda hospital DX'd it as "Clinical Dehydration".

So what caused it?
More tests and final outcome: the breast cancer she fought so hard to win 6 years ago (double mastec) has returned and it's in her left lung, stage four.
No symptoms prior, whatsoever!

NOT that I am excusing those two um....'people' from doing what most of us know they did to precious Zahra, but just throwing this out there, Devil's Advocate style, to let you know, Yes, it does happen that fast.

OMG (((((Amity))))...My prayers to you, your sister and her poor hubby...Thank you for sharing this story- I know how hard it must have been.

 

[ScorpRising]

Early on, in order to exhaust all possibilities, I attempted to follow this train of thought. The facts stopped me short. EB and AB are all about EB and AB...neither one of them would even think about going down for covering up a crime that they themselves didn't commit. They are BOTH in deep doo doo now, and they know it. If there WERE someone else they could hang this on, they would have sang like birds by now.

I think you're spot on about EB being all about her, her letters prove it.

she misses her water bed
she missed halloween
she is crawling the walls
she didn't do anything
she told all she knows
she is being lied about in the media...

Pattern?

Not one iota of remorse, compassion, anything about Zahra...

 

[Clue Hopper]

I can say that there was an interesting arrest made on someone not to far from the house they lived in Hickory. It really stood out to me. I'm not saying it is involved in this case at all, but it did pop out at me and made me think. It's not any of the said person's of interest. So only time will tell with it.

 

[raisincharlie]

I think there is a very remote possibility that there may be a third or even fourth person who ties into what happened to Zahra and I also think there is a very remote possibility that EB herself did not murder this child but went along afterwards by writing that crazy ransom note.

She sure chucked the truth about that pretty quick and one has to wonder, if driven about in an LE vehicle to different sites, how she got close but just far enough away that the actual location was just out of touch. Lying would be of no benefit to her, mislocating could suggest she heard conversations but didn't know for sure from first hand knowledge. Hate to say it but in some ways I can see EB as pretty darn good patsy and it sure seems no one, not even her own blood much liked her.

Remote possibilities with respect to EB.

Can't think of even a remote possibility for AB though.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think there is a very remote possibility that there may be a third or even fourth person who ties into what happened to Zahra and I also think there is a very remote possibility that EB herself did not murder this child but went along afterwards by writing that crazy ransom note.

She sure chucked the truth about that pretty quick and one has to wonder, if driven about in an LE vehicle to different sites, how she got close but just far enough away that the actual location was just out of touch. Lying would be of no benefit to her, mislocating could suggest she heard conversations but didn't know for sure from first hand knowledge. Hate to say it but in some ways I can see EB as pretty darn good patsy and it sure seems no one, not even her own blood much liked her.

Remote possibilities with respect to EB.


Can't think of even a remote possibility for AB though.

Many of these things have stood out to me to, RC. So much so, that I can't discount them, either.

 

[gitana1]

I dont think it was a planned homicide. something about those two makes me think they never made a single plan and just slopped through life haphazardly. because of that and the temper EB appears to have and the complete lack of care AB seems to have......I'm gonna guess it was a combination of something like no medical care, and I suspect abuse. something they did that a normal person would find the fault pointing directly at AB/EB.

in a lot of times in the crimes against children forum I am surprised at the amount of people who will beat a child (to death or nearly and s/he later passes) and then call 911 (or whatnot). yet that's so common that I think that it's actually the normal thing for whatever reason. obviously they, in just that quick moment, managed to think of the child instead of themselves. EB/AB thought only of themselves.

I'm with you. My belief based on the info we have received from witnesses, the criminal histories, the 911 call, the things EB has put out there in letters and myspace, as well as the fact that this gorgeous child was found in pieces, scattered, and that, thus, someone had to tell LE where she could be found and EB is reportedly "cooperating" with police, is the following:
That EB likely systematically abused this little cancer survivor over a period of time, that the abuse escalated as she saw how much she could get away with due to AB ignoring his daughter's plight, that, as with many of these horrific abusers, EB decided to isolate Zahra more and more so she could become her secret rage "project" - a human punching bag to torture and take out all EB's feelings of anger and inadequacy on. That, as is often the case, EB's campaign of torture led to irreversible damage. That both EB and AB knew they would be in big trouble if found out - EB because she killed Zahra and AB because he let his wife torture his child to death, as many selfish and apathetic spouses do in such cases. That as a result of the panic, they concocted a stupid scheme to hide what they had done. That, when essentially caught, EB and AB began turning on one another - their "love" does not surpass their inherent selfishness. That EB smartly pointed the finger at AB but stupidly let LE know where they may find Zahra. That AB played dumb but acted open to the possibility that EB did something to Zahra and acted as if he wants the "truth".
This case fits the pattern of so many cases where the new flame is allowed to abuse their mate's child, to death. I don't believe in any of the theories about Satanic ritual, pre-planned murder, negligent homicide due to cancer resurgence, sale to pedophiles, etc. To me, this is the same as many other stories where the quest for a new flame is much more important than protecting one's precious kids from harm and that sacrificing one's child to the new flame's abusive urges is merely the price of admission to snagging a man or woman. It sickens me but as we see it is not uncommon enough.
I believe these two will face justice soon. I think one will roll over on the other enough for the truth to somewhat come out. I don't know who is worse - the maniac who tortured this sweet child or the apathetic father who allowed it to happen and then coldly hid the fact of what was done, including possibly dismembering his own kid.
I just hope that no matter what, both of them get sufficient sentences for what they did or failed to do.

 

[LCoastMom]

I think there is a very remote possibility that there may be a third or even fourth person who ties into what happened to Zahra and I also think there is a very remote possibility that EB herself did not murder this child but went along afterwards by writing that crazy ransom note.

She sure chucked the truth about that pretty quick and one has to wonder, if driven about in an LE vehicle to different sites, how she got close but just far enough away that the actual location was just out of touch. Lying would be of no benefit to her, mislocating could suggest she heard conversations but didn't know for sure from first hand knowledge. Hate to say it but in some ways I can see EB as pretty darn good patsy and it sure seems no one, not even her own blood much liked her.

Remote possibilities with respect to EB.

Can't think of even a remote possibility for AB though.

If they ween't involved, why the crazy note? all they had to say was I DON'T KNOW! Neither would have likely been arrested outright...

Not discounting your theory, just say'en.

 

[songline]

Please don't misinterpret what I am trying to say. In NO WAY am I insinuating we turn the other cheek.

I just wonder if they could have been involved in something much deeper that could have put Zahra in danger and then they panicked and tried to cover for what had happened so they could deflect the blame?????

Not that I think AB is not guilty, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around a father doing something so despicable and evil to his own daughter?

Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense now.

 

[epiphany]

Most often, jurors apply common sense to the facts in reaching a verdict. At this point in time, I personally cannot remotely consider that neither AB nor EB did not kill Zahra. IMO, I believe one or the other, or both murdered Zahra. If an additional individual is involved, we'll soon learn about him/her. Until that happens, it's one or the other, or both responsible.

 

[raisincharlie]

If they ween't involved, why the crazy note? all they had to say was I DON'T KNOW! Neither would have likely been arrested outright...

Not discounting your theory, just say'en.

That's why I said EB could be a patsy, as in set up. Remote I know but right now, there is way too much I don't know so I can't lock on a theory at all.

 

[Sherbie]

I can say that there was an interesting arrest made on someone not to far from the house they lived in Hickory. It really stood out to me. I'm not saying it is involved in this case at all, but it did pop out at me and made me think. It's not any of the said person's of interest. So only time will tell with it.

What type of arrest was it and when, Clue? (Please don't name the person.)

 

[writer7]

I think if they were involved with something that led another person to cause Zahra's death, they knew very well that the 'something' was abusive and horrible. They'd be guilty via conspiracy, at least. They'd all be accomplices.

I am very interested in every single person responsible being caught and punished for this crime. So checking out that theory matters very much.

I'm leaning toward it just being EB and AB. But all of the computers, witness statements, fingerprints, etc. will be checked with an objective view of anything that could have happened, I'm sure.

 

[Clue Hopper]

What type of arrest was it and when, Clue? (Please don't name the person.)

Indecent liberties with a child. 11/11/2010

 

[panthera]

AB definitely had part in it. There's no way she dismembered Z and went out and dug a huge hole by herself. Plus, the 911 call is all I need to know he was involved.

I think everyone is so focused on the "evil step mommy" label that they are ignoring the facts. AB may look like an innocent man who is just plain old dumb but I think he was the mastermind behind this entire thing. No sane person can dismember a human body and walk around like nothing happened.

AB's demeanor and what he said on the 911 call initially made me believe he had part in Zahra's death, and adding the information that ED had discovered she was here only three days before Zahra was reported missing convinced me of his involvement. Vengeance. MOO

 

[panthera]

I don't normally agree with NG very often, but I have to say she is right on with her belief that a child would not just up and die from a recurring cancer 2 weeks after she was seen at a furniture store, fit and healthy. Those who wish to can argue that all day long, but it is my belief and I'm sticking to it.

There is also the statement from Elisa that "we didn't really kill her...." which could be pretty close to the truth. Zahra could have been seriously ill from a virus, became dehydrated, unable to walk without the prosthetic leg, too weak from a high fever to call out for help, and nobody checked on her for days. I doubt that either of them actually murdered her, but I do believe they were scared to report it to authorities and concocted a plan to hide her body and then Elisa came up with this story of reporting that she was abducted instead of the boss's daughter. Makes sense to me.

I can't for the life of me understand how a father could chop up his own child's body, but I'm sure Elisa didn't do it on her own.

What would be the explanation for LE tearing apart her room? There must be forensic evidence in that room, which wouldn't come from her being ill and simply dying in bed.

And to address the OP, no I don't believe anyone except those who were supposed to be caring for her are responsible for her death. MOO