Do you think a Stungun was used?

[Mama2JML]

Is there a corresponding burn mark on any of Jonbenet's clothes or bedsheets? Why would he need to use the gun on her bare skin?

Stun guns don't typically damage clothing.

 

[Tadpole12]

corresponding prong marks on clothing?

https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110624061147AA4MkhC


"A hand-held stun gun will not leave any marks. The only way it will burn is if there is something flammable already on the clothing, and not necessarily even then. A Taser-type weapon may or may not leave a visible mark in clothing, it will depend on the type of clothing worn. A loose cotton may show a small defect from the probes, leather will show those defects. All you would normally see is a very small hole, which will be difficult to locate in the best of circumstances.

The hand held devices also don't mark skin, except in rare cases. The main thing you will see is bruising, not burn marks, if the device is jammed against skin. The Taser and similar weapons leave small holes with an associated red ring around them, but that's all. If they are used in "drive stun" mode, which means they don't actually fire the prongs, they leave no mark at all."

 

[otg]

corresponding prong marks on clothing?

https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110624061147AA4MkhC


"A hand-held stun gun will not leave any marks. The only way it will burn is if there is something flammable already on the clothing, and not necessarily even then. A Taser-type weapon may or may not leave a visible mark in clothing, it will depend on the type of clothing worn. A loose cotton may show a small defect from the probes, leather will show those defects. All you would normally see is a very small hole, which will be difficult to locate in the best of circumstances.

The hand held devices also don't mark skin, except in rare cases. The main thing you will see is bruising, not burn marks, if the device is jammed against skin. The Taser and similar weapons leave small holes with an associated red ring around them, but that's all. If they are used in "drive stun" mode, which means they don't actually fire the prongs, they leave no mark at all."

Thanks, Tad. But you should have quoted the other answer too:

"Not sure about 'burn' marks, but skid marks on the victims underwear is a distinct probability."
​

(Now we'll have to wonder if the stun gun was being used for a long time on both kids.)

But seriously... I wonder if this would also mean that the stun gun would not cause a burn in the duct tape either (as has been suggested).

 

[Venom]

Here are my thoughts on a stun gun. I remember years ago watching a 48 Hours, or a Dateline (one of those type shows) about the murder of Melissa James by body builder husband and wife, Craig Titus and Kelly Ryan. Long story short, Melissa was found dead and burned in the back of Ryan's car. In putting together the murder case against them, it was found that they asked a friend to get rid of a bag, friend looked in and there was a stun gun. Investigators went to the couples home and found "dots" that stun guns give off when fired. That's how they knew that the stun gun given to the friend to be gotten rid of was used in the murder. Here's a link:

"and the gym bag contained an Air Taser Gun which, its manufacturer would later prove, had been shot six times between 2:10 and 2:12 p.m. on Tuesday, December 13, a time frame during which both Craig and Kelly have said Melissa was in their house. It was the same Taser whose discharge remnants—called dots—would be found by detectives in Melissa's room. All six of them."

http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/archive/2006/mar/23/what-happened-to-melissa-james/


So my question is couldn't these "dots" be in the R home if a stun gun was used?

 

[Mama2JML]

"Dots"

"Anti-Felon Identification (AFID): A system to deter misuse through enhanced accountability, AFID includes bar-coded serialization of each cartridge and disperses confetti-like ID tags upon activation."​

"Dots", aka AFIDs, are ejected each time a TASER cartridge is deployed. Traditional stun guns, or TASERs in "stun mode" (no cartridge & no "dots"), require direct contact with a subject, whereas TASERs are designed to be used at a distance. The marks on JonBenét resemble traditional stun gun marks.

 

[Mama2JML]

TASER marks:

"Traditional" stun gun marks:

 

[Venom]

Thanks mama2 for the info. I see the "dots" come out when a taser cartridge is deployed.

 

[THE BUNK]

I wonder if Patsy may have used a stun gun to discipline her children. Would expain why she would not have called 911. She would have assumed that Jon Benet was out and she would not have noticed if she hit her head on a bannister after the stun shock.

Come to think of it, Patsy could easily have used the stun gun on Patsy multiple times without the child ever knowing. If Patsy distracted JonBenet and used it againts her back, I doubt JonBenet could even put in to words what happened to her.

Patsy would not be the first mother to use a stun gun for discipline.

 

[Theonly1]

I wonder if Patsy may have used a stun gun to discipline her children. Would expain why she would not have called 911. She would have assumed that Jon Benet was out and she would not have noticed if she hit her head on a bannister after the stun shock.

Come to think of it, Patsy could easily have used the stun gun on Patsy multiple times without the child ever knowing. If Patsy distracted JonBenet and used it againts her back, I doubt JonBenet could even put in to words what happened to her.

Patsy would not be the first mother to use a stun gun for discipline.

And risk having the beauty queen have ugly marks where the world could see - like on her face? No way in hel!

 

[DeDee]

The supposition was if PR used a stun gun on JBs back not on her face.

We have all seen the character picture of JonBenét taken by Simon before Patsy and the two children left for Charlevoix when JB is bare foot and wearing the red and white sundress. The front of her lower leg shows twin marks similar to the twin marks left on her back at TOD.

It would not surprise me one bit to learn the Rs had a stun gun and the kids were punished for bedwetting or whatever. We have all seen the pictures of the unsightly bruise from a pinch on JB's arm.

Not sure if these stun guns linked below were available in 1996 in America or in Europe but they are just little stun guns, as Patsy was apt to say.

http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/stun-guns-mini-stun-guns-mac-sub=35

 

[bettybaby00]

The supposition was if PR used a stun gun on JBs back not on her face.

We have all seen the character picture of JonBenét taken by Simon before Patsy and the two children left for Charlevoix when JB is bare foot and wearing the red and white sundress. The front of her lower leg shows twin marks similar to the twin marks left on her back at TOD.

It would not surprise me one bit to learn the Rs had a stun gun and the kids were punished for bedwetting or whatever. We have all seen the pictures of the unsightly bruise from a pinch on JB's arm.

Not sure if these stun guns linked below were available in 1996 in America or in Europe but they are just little stun guns, as Patsy was apt to say.

http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/stun-guns-mini-stun-guns-mac-sub=35

Awwww, they even come in pretty colors

Your mention of the bruise on JRBs arm reminds me of the report that PR worriedly asked JR if she had bruises on her arms. A concern of Patsy's b/c of the sleeveless dress she wanted to put on JRB for burial. JR assures his wife that there are no bruises.

How does he know this??? She is found in the WC wearing a long sleeved top.

 

[THE BUNK]

Couple of things I thought of:

1. What if Patsy's method of using the stung gun was to sneak it behind her back. Shock her, then catch her before she fell to the floor. Or perhaps she used it when JonBenet was on carpet or in her bed, What if during that Christmas Night...Patsy in a state of being tired...used the stun gun when she was in a tub or on hard wood floor. Or perhaps this time she didn't catch her before she fell and hit a bannister. Patsy would be unwilling to call the police since she knows they will find out a stun gun was used. She has to come up with a scenario were a stun gun would be used...like a kidnapping and/or sexual molestation.

2. Perhaps Patsy got this idea from someone else. Like say, one of her friends. Mother's in the beauty contests. Or even maybe, John's ex wife? That person may know that Patsy used a stun gun on the children, but will not come forward since they did the same thing to their own children.

3. Burke could have seen Patsy using this stun gun on Patsy (and maybe himself) and may have thought that this was something normal to do. When Jonbenet made Burke angry..Burke may have thought it a normal thing to use the stun gun on her. Only he wouldn't have known to catch JonBenet, before she hurt herself. Perhaps Burke found the stun gun and used it on Jonbenet on the night of 12/26?

4. Constant use of the stun gun, might explain all the doctor's visits. Patsy wanted to make sure there was no permanent damage being done by the stun gun episodes. It would also give her willingness to keep using it. As long as Jonbenet is still healthy and not being permanetly harmed, why not keep using it to keep her calm and well behaved? The hospital visits were actual reassurances to her that she was doing no real harm to Jonbenet.

 

[tweezybird]

I thought it was already determined that no stun gun were used

 

[DeeDee249]

I thought it was already determined that no stun gun were used

It has never been determined whether a stun gun was used or not. For it to be officially determined, as opposed to just opinion, the marks would have had to be tested to determine what made them. A stun gun produces a specific type of burn, an electrical burn as opposed to a burn from a flame, cigarette, etc. The coroner noted the marks, called them abrasions, and did not try to determine what made them.
Police wanted the body exhumed so there could be further testing to rule out stun gun use. The DA refused to ask for a warrant, which was needed because the parents refused to agree to exhumation.
By the way, although a stun gun itself was never found (maybe hidden in the golf bag or removed from the home somehow by Patsy's sister, etc) there WAS found in the home an instructional video on operation of a stun gun. It was the type of video that comes WITH a stun gun, almost like a "user manual". It was in Spanish, so JR used that as an excuse by saying they couldn't understand it anyway. He was never asked, to my knowledge, why he even owned such a video, nor was he asked to explain why he had the instructional video without the stun gun.

 

[Mama2JML]

It has never been determined whether a stun gun was used or not. For it to be officially determined, as opposed to just opinion, the marks would have had to be tested to determine what made them. A stun gun produces a specific type of burn, an electrical burn as opposed to a burn from a flame, cigarette, etc. The coroner noted the marks, called them abrasions, and did not try to determine what made them.
Police wanted the body exhumed so there could be further testing to rule out stun gun use. The DA refused to ask for a warrant, which was needed because the parents refused to agree to exhumation.
By the way, although a stun gun itself was never found (maybe hidden in the golf bag or removed from the home somehow by Patsy's sister, etc) there WAS found in the home an instructional video on operation of a stun gun. It was the type of video that comes WITH a stun gun, almost like a "user manual". It was in Spanish, so JR used that as an excuse by saying they couldn't understand it anyway. He was never asked, to my knowledge, why he even owned such a video, nor was he asked to explain why he had the instructional video without the stun gun.

"The DA refused to ask for a warrant"? "The parents refused" an exhumation? A stun gun "user manual"?

Nope, nope, nope. I prefer fact over fantasy...

 

[KKazoo87]

"The DA refused to ask for a warrant"? "The parents refused" an exhumation? A stun gun "user manual"?

Nope, nope, nope. I prefer fact over fantasy...

Then research the facts. The stun gun video tape did exist, and Patsy or John wrote about it in their own book. I believe they claim they got it on vacation, at some high tech "spy store". Do the research before dismissing things.

Oh, and there's this: John Ramsey Opposed Exhumation. John Ramsey was opposed to exhumation (“We had buried our child, she was at peace, she was safe. That was just an abhorrent thought to me,&#8221.

Again, do the research. Most of us have been for years.

 

[Mama2JML]

Then research the facts. The stun gun video tape did exist, and Patsy or John wrote about it in their own book. I believe they claim they got it on vacation, at some high tech "spy store". Do the research before dismissing things.

Oh, and there's this: John Ramsey Opposed Exhumation. John Ramsey was opposed to exhumation (“We had buried our child, she was at peace, she was safe. That was just an abhorrent thought to me,”).

Again, do the research. Most of us have been for years.

Maybe you should reread my post and the post to which I replied b/c I haven't dismissed any facts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm a RDI

I would never agree to exhumation for any reason if she were my child.


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[THE BUNK]

I'm a RDI

I would never agree to exhumation for any reason if she were my child.


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The problem is that the whole family is still in danger if this killer is not caught. That has to factor into that decision. As much as I am sure they hate to unearth JonBenet's body, I think they will be more upset if they have to bury another person to this killer.

 

[bettybaby00]

I'm a RDI

I would never agree to exhumation for any reason if she were my child.


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Its a really harsh thing to contemplate even hypothetically.

I cant say with certainty what I would decide b/c it's difficult to imagine making such a decision, but I think another critical thing I would have to consider would be this: if exhuming her body convinced LE of my innocence then it might be worth it. Not b/c I was concerned about exonerating myself, but b/c then LE would move past me as a possible suspect, and finding her killer would be my main concern.

This of course is all based on the idea that I was innocent in the first place