do you think maddie is alive or dead

[Linda7NJ]

According to Grime's all of the dogs alerted to the pig remains when he introduced it to them during training. That's not good in my opinion.

So the McCanns were dragging around a pig corpse?

I thought they claimed they usually drive around with soiled diapers in their trunk and mrs. McCann took the stuffed toy to work with her prior to holiday and rolled around with no less than four cadavers.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

So the McCanns were dragging around a pig corpse?

I thought they claimed they usually drive around with soiled diapers in their trunk and mrs. McCann took the stuffed toy to work with her prior to holiday and rolled around with no less than four cadavers.


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The point is that dog could have alerted to something else. Who knows.. Maybe someone used the car to bring home raw pork one day.. It is was a rental for goodness sake.. MAybe someone had been transferred to the hospital in it.. And bled in it.. Lots of possibilities.

 

[RANCH]

So the McCanns were dragging around a pig corpse?

I thought they claimed they usually drive around with soiled diapers in their trunk and mrs. McCann took the stuffed toy to work with her prior to holiday and rolled around with no less than four cadavers.


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It gives me an idea as to the quality of the training these dogs received.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It gives me an idea as to the quality of the training these dogs received.

Those dogs have a long exemplary record. The proof is in their history.

Comparing the dogs to the ever changing "eyewitness" .... I'll choose the dogs every time.
They corroborate each other utilizing two different skill sets.



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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Those dogs have a long exemplary record. The proof is in their history.

Comparing the dogs to the ever changing "eyewitness" .... I'll choose the dogs every time.
They corroborate each other utilizing two different skill sets.



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Not me. I will take the dog information but not when it is a hit on a rental with no other evidence to prove their hit.

Same for the hotel.

I believe Jane saw what she saw.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It has nothing to do with the courts seeing as the dogs are not seen as reliable enough for this 'evidence' to make it into court.

I was specifically referring to the wholesale trashing of Grimes reputation.

Right here, right now, folks are happy to say he "cued" his dogs.

Why a totally uninvolved professional is more likely to lie and deceive than those who have been proven to lie, is beyond me.

:dunno:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I was specifically referring to the wholesale trashing of Grimes reputation.

Right here, right now, folks are happy to say he "cued" his dogs.

Why a totally uninvolved professional is more likely to lie and deceive than those who have been proven to lie, is beyond me.

:dunno:

No one is trashing him.. Just saying his dogs are not Perfect.

However people have no trouble trashing the McCanns who have not been charged with anything and who have a witness who saw the child being carried away.. .

 

[Gem2626]

I was specifically referring to the wholesale trashing of Grimes reputation.

Right here, right now, folks are happy to say he "cued" his dogs.

Why a totally uninvolved professional is more likely to lie and deceive than those who have been proven to lie, is beyond me.

:dunno:

I think people were saying that he could have inadvertently cued the dogs. Especially as the car had pictures of Madeleine all over it.

No one is saying he is deliberately deceiving anyone. I think though that many, including myself (and the courts) do not believe that the dog evidence is that reliable. Martin Grimes himself says that forensics needs to back their findings up and it doesn't.

 

[Donjeta]

4078 “And that, you know, it doesn’t matter. You can only say what you can remember and as far as you can remember it. And if it is different from how it was then things can be explained”.
Reply “Well, I mean, just whatever, they were, they were standing there. And, you know, just from, how I wouldn’t know they were standing there. And if I was trying to make this up, don’t you think I would have made damn sure they saw me. Why on earth would I say I saw them and then they turn round and say they didn’t see me. It’s just, you know, it’s just, you know, I think that’s just, yeah, it’s just. I’m not making this up”.

Jane Tanner rambles a bit... What on earth is she trying to say here? If she was trying to make this up she'd have made damn sure that Gerry and Jez saw her?

If she was trying to make up a sighting after learning of Madeleine's fate, to feel important or whatever, how on earth could she have made sure that Gerry and Jez saw her, after the fact? She could only have known that she should attract Gerry and Jez's attention if she knew that Madeleine was going to disappear and that she would invent a false sighting for reasons of her own before the disappearance was reported.

It makes no sense.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id222.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

No one is trashing him.. Just saying his dogs are not Perfect.

However people have no trouble trashing the McCanns who have not been charged with anything and who have a witness who saw the child being carried away.. .

His dogs did have a perfect record.

Their witness has problems, her story changes over time and as it evolves it gets more detailed. That's a huge problem.

I don't consider it wrong to question and be very suspicious of the McCanns behavior, conflicted versions and refusal to cooperate.

All IMO


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

His dogs did have a perfect record.

Their witness has problems, her story changes over time and as it evolves it gets more detailed. That's a huge problem.

I don't consider it wrong to question and be very suspicious of the McCanns behavior.




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What is perfect? That they always alerted? Did they find a body there? Did they find decomposed biological material??
AND Again, in this case it was a rental car and a rented hotel room. With many many many occupants.

 

[Gem2626]

His dogs did have a perfect record.

Their witness has problems, her story changes over time and as it evolves it gets more detailed. That's a huge problem.

I don't consider it wrong to question and be very suspicious of the McCanns behavior, conflicted versions and refusal to cooperate.




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In what ways has her story changed? What conflicted versions? Links to statements and differences please.

The police tend to interview witnesses several times in the hope that as time goes on they may remember things. Seemingly it is not unusual for people to remember more when they have got over shock etc and had more time to think about things.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What is perfect? That they always alerted? Did they find a body there? Did they find decomposed biological material??
AND Again, in this case it was a rental car and a rented hotel room. With many many many occupants.

Hmmm
the other hotel rooms weren't alerted on. Explain that.

The other cars weren't alerted on
IMO


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Hmmm
the other hotel rooms weren't alerted on. Explain that.

The other cars weren't alerted on
IMO


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But the handler knew exactly what car it was. Whose car it was.. I just don't see it as a blind alert.. I see too much that says it could be something else.

Did they walk the dog in every other hotel room? EVERYONE? Because that to me would make me trust it less also..

 

[Donjeta]

JMO but I think she's embellishing a bit too. Maybe it's unintentional but she goes from a vague egg man to tiny details that she would have had a very hard time even seeing in the dark and just glancing at something briefly from some distance away.

 

[Gem2626]

Having just watched Eddie the dog and the car 'hit' again I am reminded of everything that is wrong with this video.

We see Eddie and Grimes walking through the car park, eddie sniffs a couple of cars and grimes 'talks' to Eddie to make sure he has a sniff. Grimes does not stop at the cars for very long. He pretty much walks straight on to the next one. However, when he gets to the Scenic he stops. properly stops and stays standing by the car. Eddie has had a sniff and runs away. Grimes stays by the car. He doesn't move on with Eddie (as he done before). Grimes then shouts out loudly to Eddie (which he didn't do at the other cars) to get him to come back. Eddie sniffs around the car, runs off, comes back, sniffs, runs off and is called back by grimes. He then hits.

Sorry but this is definite cueing. He wasn't interested in the car but the fact that Grimes stopped shows that HE was interested. You cannot watch that video and say that it's reliable. The test should have been done blind there is no doubt about that.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Having just watched Eddie the dog and the car 'hit' again I am reminded of everything that is wrong with this video.

We see Eddie and Grimes walking through the car park, eddie sniffs a couple of cars and grimes 'talks' to Eddie to make sure he has a sniff. Grimes does not stop at the cars for very long. He pretty much walks straight on to the next one. However, when he gets to the Scenic he stops. properly stops and stays standing by the car. Eddie has had a sniff and runs away. Grimes stays by the car. He doesn't move on with Eddie (as he done before). Grimes then shouts out loudly to Eddie (which he didn't do at the other cars) to get him to come back. Eddie sniffs around the car, runs off, comes back, sniffs, runs off and is called back by grimes. He then hits.

Sorry but this is definite cueing. He wasn't interested in the car but the fact that Grimes stopped shows that HE was interested. You cannot watch that video and say that it's reliable. The test should have been done blind there is no doubt about that.

You could say that.

You could also say that "the video" is a heavily edited version of what took days to organise and achieve. Yes he guides the dogs, but it is more to focus their attention. These dogs are being literally bombarded by odor molecules, they get very excited. In fact one of the dogs went off before she even got into the building...how was that "cued"? How did they "cue" them into ignoring the other cars?

Indeed, the original session was initially postponed because they couldn't find somewhere clean enough to hold it.

If he was cueing, the cleanliness or otherwise of the surroundings wouldn't matter.

So you are saying that the British expert, hired and brought in by the British police, was involved in an organised manufacturing of "evidence"?

Very serious charges right there...what's his motive? Grime's livelihood is these dogs getting it right!

:cow:

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Sure it does. It means that it is not reliable enough to be used in court. That means they have enough unreliable hits, reports that make it less likely the dogs are correct.

That is called Data.

There reliable in the us good enough for me!

 

[Jmoose]

Either way it's not right. HRD dogs shouldn't alert to pig remains. They should only alert to human remains.

Ok-so it was before they were trained at Quantico then. Now they've been trained to find human remains, which is why he took them to Quantico in the first place, and why these two dogs, and not some other pig-trained only dogs were used. You are trying to adjust the facts to fit your theory-maybe we can get a professional to weigh in here.

 

[Jmoose]

I work with dogs professionally, so I'm with lots of them regularly-I don't, for one minute, believe that anybody went to the cost of sending Grimes and his dogs to Quantico, because sometimes dogs sometimes find stuff that sometimes helps LE solve crimes. They did that because it works.