do you think maddie is alive or dead

[Linda7NJ]

Apparently he is not as perfect as people think.. Good article on what he gets paid and mistake that Eddie made.


Eddie the sniffer dog - the animal that had supposedly found the 'scent of death' in the Portuguese flat where Madeleine McCann disappeared - no longer had a licence for UK police forensic work when Harper started using him in Jersey. Eddie, whose owner, Martin Grime, was paid £93,600 for less than five months' work, triggered the first excavations by barking at a spot where Harper's team then unearthed what was claimed to be part of a child's skull. In fact, as a Kew Gardens expert has now confirmed, it was a piece of coconut shell.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz2hNFSNae0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Oh for the love of all things.... Didn't you read an earlier post and LINK debunking this?


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Oh for the love of all things.... Didn't you read an earlier post and LINK debunking this?


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It is a news article. Who debunks it? Grime?

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Oh for the love of all things.... Didn't you read an earlier post and LINK debunking this?


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:gthanks:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Please link to where you read Madeleine's DNA was found.

Forensic report
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p10p2617-2623

Where does it say that Madeleine's DNA was found?
The only DNA identified was from 3 living men one of those being Gerry McCann.

yeah we know the forensics are crap too.



In fact the DNA was originally confirmed to be that of a child of Gerry McCanns. As both the twins made it out of PDL alive, it could not be theirs.

This changed when the British pulled out of the investigation.

Why did it change? Conspiracy theorists will shout "because it was planted" whereas the PJ and myself both agree, it didn't change, just the report changed.

Then, the hair from the boot got lost...while in the hands of the beyond reproach FSS.

Yeah ok.

I'm finding the links.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

yeah we know the forensics are crap too.



In fact the DNA was originally confirmed to be that of a child of Gerry McCanns. As both the twins made it out of PDL alive, it could not be theirs.

Absolutely could be theirs. All they had to do was slobber on something and there is the DNA. Babies slobber, put things in their mouth, Suck thumbs, touch Things.. It could in fact be their DNA.

 

[blefuscu]

:gthanks:

Don't bother, she's not interested in facts and science.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Absolutely could be theirs. All they had to do was slobber on something and there is the DNA. Babies slobber, put things in their mouth, Suck thumbs, touch Things.. It could in fact be their DNA.

They were not babies! Most 2 and 3 (almost 4) year olds do not no put things in their mouth & they most def. do not slobber everywhere.

 

[blefuscu]

And children that age can get out of beds, hurt themselves, fall down steps, fall into pools, walk into roads, and wander off.

 

[Linda7NJ]

And children that age can get out of beds, hurt themselves, fall down steps, fall into pools, walk into roads, and wander off.

I'd be running and screaming her name in ever widening circles around that hotel


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[redheadedgal]

How do u know they died?

i believe eddie has died and keela has been retired.

the info is either in this forum or the lisa irwin one. it's there, if you wish to confirm.

Lol, so which is it? The dogs are currently working for the FBI as redheadedgal says above, or are they dead?

lol -- i never stated eddie or keela are currently working for the FBI. if you are referring to an article that was linked, check the date?

mr grime has other dogs... and they now work for the FBI too (detroit and kansas city being two notable cases that have recently been in the news)

it was a piece of coconut shell.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz2hNFSNae0

1) the daily mail? lmao
2) i debunked this misinformation earlier in the thread

 

[Linda7NJ]

i believe eddie has died and keela has been retired.

the info is either in this forum or the lisa irwin one. it's there, if you wish to confirm.




lol -- i never stated eddie or keela are currently working for the FBI. if you are referring to an article that was linked, check the date?

mr grime has other dogs... and they now work for the FBI too (detroit and kansas city being two notable cases that have recently been in the news)




1) the daily mail? lmao
2) i debunked this misinformation earlier in the thread

High five!


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[goldengirl57]

Those dogs have a long exemplary record. The proof is in their history.

Comparing the dogs to the ever changing "eyewitness" .... I'll choose the dogs every time.
They corroborate each other utilizing two different skill sets.



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I cant believe we are going over the dogs again lol......YOUR VERY patient Linda lol...and others who actually understand the dogs....

What is WRONG with people that they continually dismiss or try to make it out that the dogs are rubbish, or the handler influences the way they work?

I find it exasperating lol....

The thing is this.

These dogs are highly trained. They have been used for many years not always spoken about because some of the cases are still ongoing...

NO ONE, not the dogs or Grimes said they had indicated the death of Madeliene McCann or found traces of her blood.

What they do is they sniff out cadavar and blood thats all they do.

Sniff, sniff sniff sniff....if they smell either they then indicate to their handler I am a good doggy and I have found what I am trained for.........

They dont turn around to their handler and say, woof woof woof, this is the scent of a deceased child Madeliene McCann....or the blood of the same child......

NO all they can do is indicate at one point there has been death or blood in that area.

Can death scent be transferable....sure it can. Coincidence sure it could be.

Could the blood have been from a nose bleed YES OF COURSE...perhaps housekeeping is not as good as it should be.......the blood could literally be from anyone.

So having established all that what do the dogs tell us really?

The dogs have indicated in several areas that a cadavar has been present.

Whos? No one knows.

Now this is where it gets odd for me.................

SCENARIO.

My child goes missing from a holiday apartment. I have no idea where she is, anything could have happened to her in the 30 minutes she was left on her own.

Finally to great EXPENSE to try and get a clue, expert scenting dogs are brought in. They tell their handler that at some point cadavar and blood has been present in the flat.

So what do I do?

a. Totally dismiss this finding and say the dogs cant read and write and are stupid.
b. The dogs were forced to indicate the findings..
c. Grab hold of my husband and cry beleiving my worse fears have been realised.

I think i would opt for (c) myself personally.

I would then want the police to find out what could have happened, BEFORE we had gone to the apartment to make sure someone hadnt died there etc, and to get myself ready for bad news.

I am fairly intelligent anyway, and I know in my own heart if my daughter had disappeared from the apartment that her future would not be so bright.

I certainly would not publicly ridicule these dogs finding. No way.

By doing so I would think people might be of the mind that I had something to do with it.

I think i would have kept quiet and let the police do their job.

Yes I would be horrified at the thought of my child perhaps dying in the apartment but then I would have to be open minded and hope it was because someone else had.....

.................................................................

As to the dogs. AFTER 2007 they did indicate a death in a case not far from me. They indicated someone had died and the body had lain in a certain part of the room behind the settee......and they also found a minute trace of blood (not big enough to analyse).

It turned out eventually the murderer did confess and stated he had strangled his wife and laid her behind the settee until he could move her elsewhere.....

....................................................................

Oh then we have people constantly pointing to the childrens home. The dog did indicate death, and did find a fragment of tooth (human). It doesnt mean it was from a child of the home it could have been from someone years and years prior to the that.

.....................................................................

ALSO something one musnt forget. The dogs indicated scent outside an empty apartment above the McCanns. This was dismissed as some rotten food was found in the fridge and everyone said the dog could smell that.

NO, no no. The dog could smell something alright but a great clue was missed.

........................................................................

The thing is with this dog business it drives me BARKING MAD lol.

Its just going around and around in circles.:banghead:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I cant believe we are going over the dogs again lol......YOUR VERY patient Linda lol...and others who actually understand the dogs....

What is WRONG with people that they continually dismiss or try to make it out that the dogs are rubbish, or the handler influences the way they work?

I find it exasperating lol....

The thing is this.

These dogs are highly trained. They have been used for many years not always spoken about because some of the cases are still ongoing...

NO ONE, not the dogs or Grimes said they had indicated the death of Madeliene McCann or found traces of her blood.

What they do is they sniff out cadavar and blood thats all they do.

Sniff, sniff sniff sniff....if they smell either they then indicate to their handler I am a good doggy and I have found what I am trained for.........

They dont turn around to their handler and say, woof woof woof, this is the scent of a deceased child Madeliene McCann....or the blood of the same child......

NO all they can do is indicate at one point there has been death or blood in that area.

Can death scent be transferable....sure it can. Coincidence sure it could be.

Could the blood have been from a nose bleed YES OF COURSE...perhaps housekeeping is not as good as it should be.......the blood could literally be from anyone.

So having established all that what do the dogs tell us really?

The dogs have indicated in several areas that a cadavar has been present.

Whos? No one knows.

Now this is where it gets odd for me.................

SCENARIO.

My child goes missing from a holiday apartment. I have no idea where she is, anything could have happened to her in the 30 minutes she was left on her own.

Finally to great EXPENSE to try and get a clue, expert scenting dogs are brought in. They tell their handler that at some point cadavar and blood has been present in the flat.

So what do I do?

a. Totally dismiss this finding and say the dogs cant read and write and are stupid.
b. The dogs were forced to indicate the findings..
c. Grab hold of my husband and cry beleiving my worse fears have been realised.

I think i would opt for (c) myself personally.

I would then want the police to find out what could have happened, BEFORE we had gone to the apartment to make sure someone hadnt died there etc, and to get myself ready for bad news.

I am fairly intelligent anyway, and I know in my own heart if my daughter had disappeared from the apartment that her future would not be so bright.

I certainly would not publicly ridicule these dogs finding. No way.

By doing so I would think people might be of the mind that I had something to do with it.

I think i would have kept quiet and let the police do their job.

Yes I would be horrified at the thought of my child perhaps dying in the apartment but then I would have to be open minded and hope it was because someone else had.....

.................................................................

As to the dogs. AFTER 2007 they did indicate a death in a case not far from me. They indicated someone had died and the body had lain in a certain part of the room behind the settee......and they also found a minute trace of blood (not big enough to analyse).

It turned out eventually the murderer did confess and stated he had strangled his wife and laid her behind the settee until he could move her elsewhere.....

....................................................................

Oh then we have people constantly pointing to the childrens home. The dog did indicate death, and did find a fragment of tooth (human). It doesnt mean it was from a child of the home it could have been from someone years and years prior to the that.

.....................................................................

ALSO something one musnt forget. The dogs indicated scent outside an empty apartment above the McCanns. This was dismissed as some rotten food was found in the fridge and everyone said the dog could smell that.

NO, no no. The dog could smell something alright but a great clue was missed.

........................................................................

The thing is with this dog business it drives me BARKING MAD lol.

Its just going around and around in circles.:banghead:

It is exasperating...
And I agree a great clue was missed.


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[SapphireSteel]

What's worse is, it's on every thread.

It's like you're trying to put out a bushfire - you've just stamped out one flare up, there's another 3 behind you. :scared:

I get dizzy jumping all over. I totally forget which thread it is I'm on. I even went off about Madeleine on JB's thread. :blush:

I'm also exhausted of the same old stuff - the dogs are crap, the pj is crap, Grime is crap, the McCanns are blameless. Real life doesn't work that way, we have to do the best with what resources we have...the PJ didn't have a lot of resources, but the British police sure do, and it was them who brought the dogs all the way from the UK, and paid the bill...are we accusing them of being involved in an anti-McCann conspiracy too?

ullhair:

I keep asking...please! If there's some glaring fact I'm overlooking, or just haven't read about, that supports IDI....bring it! We need positive input! There's too much emotion based opinion and criticism of every single word of non-IDI information, and not enough actual sleuthing which by definition requires the ability to consider ALL information and question it's veracity.

I hope this post doesn't get deleted It's a genuine plea for some actual debate and exchange of ideas and sleuthing rather than generic nay-saying and sledging of everyone involved but the McCanns.

They are suing Amaral for the "damage" that was done by his book - as far as I can tell, there isn't any damage, but the opposite - they've come up smelling of roses.

 

[Gem2626]

I still find it highly amusing that people think that dogs can't make a mistake. That for some reason they are perfect.

The official analysis report questions the dogs hits


"If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'"

"On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'"

"Apart from all that was said about the dogs, we must also take into attention the results of the forensic analysis that was performed by the experts on the Scientific Police Laboratory on the day immediately after the facts, and already mentioned where no vestige of blood was found"


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk//PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

 

[blefuscu]

I cant believe we are going over the dogs again lol......YOUR VERY patient Linda lol...and others who actually understand the dogs....

What is WRONG with people that they continually dismiss or try to make it out that the dogs are rubbish, or the handler influences the way they work?

I find it exasperating lol....

The thing is this.

These dogs are highly trained. They have been used for many years not always spoken about because some of the cases are still ongoing...

NO ONE, not the dogs or Grimes said they had indicated the death of Madeliene McCann or found traces of her blood.

What they do is they sniff out cadavar and blood thats all they do.

Sniff, sniff sniff sniff....if they smell either they then indicate to their handler I am a good doggy and I have found what I am trained for.........

They dont turn around to their handler and say, woof woof woof, this is the scent of a deceased child Madeliene McCann....or the blood of the same child......

NO all they can do is indicate at one point there has been death or blood in that area.

Can death scent be transferable....sure it can. Coincidence sure it could be.

Could the blood have been from a nose bleed YES OF COURSE...perhaps housekeeping is not as good as it should be.......the blood could literally be from anyone.

So having established all that what do the dogs tell us really?

The dogs have indicated in several areas that a cadavar has been present.

Whos? No one knows.

Now this is where it gets odd for me.................

SCENARIO.

My child goes missing from a holiday apartment. I have no idea where she is, anything could have happened to her in the 30 minutes she was left on her own.

Finally to great EXPENSE to try and get a clue, expert scenting dogs are brought in. They tell their handler that at some point cadavar and blood has been present in the flat.

So what do I do?

a. Totally dismiss this finding and say the dogs cant read and write and are stupid.
b. The dogs were forced to indicate the findings..
c. Grab hold of my husband and cry beleiving my worse fears have been realised.

I think i would opt for (c) myself personally.

I would then want the police to find out what could have happened, BEFORE we had gone to the apartment to make sure someone hadnt died there etc, and to get myself ready for bad news.

I am fairly intelligent anyway, and I know in my own heart if my daughter had disappeared from the apartment that her future would not be so bright.

I certainly would not publicly ridicule these dogs finding. No way.

By doing so I would think people might be of the mind that I had something to do with it.

I think i would have kept quiet and let the police do their job.

Yes I would be horrified at the thought of my child perhaps dying in the apartment but then I would have to be open minded and hope it was because someone else had.....

.................................................................

As to the dogs. AFTER 2007 they did indicate a death in a case not far from me. They indicated someone had died and the body had lain in a certain part of the room behind the settee......and they also found a minute trace of blood (not big enough to analyse).

It turned out eventually the murderer did confess and stated he had strangled his wife and laid her behind the settee until he could move her elsewhere.....

....................................................................

Oh then we have people constantly pointing to the childrens home. The dog did indicate death, and did find a fragment of tooth (human). It doesnt mean it was from a child of the home it could have been from someone years and years prior to the that.

.....................................................................

ALSO something one musnt forget. The dogs indicated scent outside an empty apartment above the McCanns. This was dismissed as some rotten food was found in the fridge and everyone said the dog could smell that.

NO, no no. The dog could smell something alright but a great clue was missed.

........................................................................

The thing is with this dog business it drives me BARKING MAD lol.

Its just going around and around in circles.:banghead:

Brilliant, brilliant post!

 

[Gem2626]

From the Central Department of Criminal Investigation. Their analysis on the case.

"we must also take into attention the results of the forensic analysis that was performed by the experts on the Scientific Police Laboratory on the day immediately after the facts, and already mentioned where no vestige of blood was found"

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk//PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

The forensic reports
On the samples three DNA profiles were identified:

- A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card(286C/2007-CRL(12)).

- 286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment ... In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.

- 286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2...In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques.

All three of the above mentioned people are (were at the time) still very much alive. Fernando Viegas and Lino Henriques are Portuguese Forensic experts.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p10p2617-2623


Please tell me where Madeline's blood and DNA were found

 

[blefuscu]

What DNA and blood evidence?

Please find AND LINK the evidence that states that DNA from Madeleine and blood was found!

I didn't say it was Madeleines. Dogs are trained to find ANY blood, DNA or cadaverine, dependent on which dog it is. They can't say "oh I'll ignore that DNA, it's not proven to be a specific persons.

 

[Gem2626]

I didn't say it was Madeleines. Dogs are trained to find ANY blood, DNA or cadaverine, dependent on which dog it is. They can't say "oh I'll ignore that DNA, it's not proven to be a specific persons.

What?

You said that the DNA and blood evidence is being ignored. (Firstly no Blood was found as highlighted in the forensic report).

Why would we be concerned about DNA (or blood if it was relevant) from 3 men (one being Gerry) who were very much alive and well?

Surely we are only concerned with Madeleine's blood or DNA being found which indicates she is dead. There was none.

 

[SapphireSteel]

From the Central Department of Criminal Investigation. Their analysis on the case.

"we must also take into attention the results of the forensic analysis that was performed by the experts on the Scientific Police Laboratory on the day immediately after the facts, and already mentioned where no vestige of blood was found"

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk//PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

The forensic reports
On the samples three DNA profiles were identified:

- A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card(286C/2007-CRL(12)).

- 286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment ... In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.

- 286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2...In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques.

All three of the above mentioned people are (were at the time) still very much alive. Fernando Viegas and Lino Henriques are Portuguese Forensic experts.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p10p2617-2623


Please tell me where Madeline's blood and DNA were found

The important part is that DNA consistent with Madeleine's was found in the cadaver alert sites.

If the dogs were cued, how come they just so happened to find DNA at those exact spots and nowhere else?