Documentary Claims Jesus Was Married

[Details]

Amen. Except Details got one thing wrong: the world is MY dream and the rest of you don't exist.

Why then are you making my cat sit in front of my MONITOR!!! What did I ever dream up to do with you? :slap:

 

[Nova]

They aren't? Then how do you explain the proselytizers in my neighborhood (they have stopped coming to my door) every few weeks, and little Jesus booklets are placed in mailboxes all across America, and that it is not uncommon to find someone standing on a street corner preaching and condemning all of us to hell is we do not accept Jesus as our Lord? When my brother and his family relocated to a new State, they encountered a very aggressive effort to identify their religion and make them active participants in the local church (the one associated with a recently miraculously cured minister). I hear o similar experiences all over the country. Quite a number of my college students have already participated in mission work (Catholic missions in this case). Cultures all over the world are being decimated by the conversion of traditional societies and belief systems to a hierarchical and Christianity. I remember stories of all of the missionaries waiting just over the border during the initial invasion of Iraq, waiting for the opportunity to sweep in and convert the muslims.

If you visit Jerusalem you will be bombarded with Christians of various denominations hanging out at the popular tourist traps to trap visitors and try to convert them. This is the only case where I have witnessed Jewish "proselytizers", although they are not interested in the goyim. They want to get the lapsed Jews and introduce them to orthodoxy.

Ouch! How did *I* become responsible for the behavior of Christian missionaries?

Despite all you describe, the majority of Christians aren't out pestering tourists in Jerusalem. I've already agreed to take your word that, today, Christian proselytizing is more aggressive than Moslem.

Whaddaya want from me?

 

[Nova]

Why then are you making my cat sit in front of my MONITOR!!! What did I ever dream up to do with you? :slap:

Just amusing myself while waiting for this imaginary Friday to end...

 

[txsvicki]

It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.

 

[UM&AMWfan]

You can't prove god exists or doesn't exist - there's no way to be certain. Heck, you can't even prove you exist - this whole world is, as you should know, merely an elaborate dream I am having right now. I might dream you knock on my door and introduce yourself, but that doesn't make you real. I just wish I'd stop dreaming that my cat is sitting here in front of my monitor while I'm trying to type!

Individual elements of these stories can be shown to be true or false, but it's so far back in the past, that you can't be 100% sure we've found everything, and any of that may simple prove the bible is more metaphorical than previously thought (to those who believe) - like the bit about if Elijah really ascended into heaven, or is this a poetical way of saying he moved on to another place - maybe the same could be true of Jesus, etc.

That is totally ridiculous. If we meet we can shake hands, etc. and we can confirm that each of us exist. Or if someone comes up to you and viciously starts stabbing you with a knife and you start screaming in pain and you fear you may never see your loved ones again are you still going to doubt they exist? Not a chance.

The religous sometimes try to pass off such a pathetic attempt to justify the existence of god because they know it is a futile effort.

It is true that you cannot prove that god doesn't exist but when you are dealing with infinite space and time you cannot prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist so your argument is invalid.

However if you look at the history of mankind and religion it is UNEQUIVOCALLY clear that this "god" is just a man made concept to justify his suffering, give him hope for immortality, and give him a meaning of life.

In other words the preponderance of evidence shows that god is simply a creation of man and therefore doesn't exist. If you look at this site you'll see some amazing info that NO ONE in the WORLD can refute!!

www.GodisImaginary.com

 

[UM&AMWfan]

It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.

Everything you've said has a natural explanation and nothing supernatural is required for ANY of it. Haven't you ever taken a biology or life sciences class?

Also, no one can even SHOW that a soul exists. There is no life that exists that is not encapsulated in a physical form.

All the evidence shows there is no such thing as a soul. When an insect or animal dies we never hear from it again just like when a person dies. They are both forms of life that can only exist in the physical form.

If any of you can show that humans can live past the death of our physical bodies you'd become the most famous and revered person overnight.

 

[Nova]

It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.

What are you talking about? Of course, scientists can explain most of these things and do.

They don't explain where our souls go after death, because there is no objective evidence that we have souls or that "they" go anywhere.

 

[Nova]

That is totally ridiculous. If we meet we can shake hands, etc. and we can confirm that each of us exist. Or if someone comes up to you and viciously starts stabbing you with a knife and you start screaming in pain and you fear you may never see your loved ones again are you still going to doubt they exist? Not a chance.

You've never shaken hands in a dream?

Just because you declare your waking consciousness "real" and your dream consciousness "illusion" doesn't make it so.

 

[Cypros]

Ouch! How did *I* become responsible for the behavior of Christian missionaries?

Despite all you describe, the majority of Christians aren't out pestering tourists in Jerusalem. I've already agreed to take your word that, today, Christian proselytizing is more aggressive than Moslem.

Whaddaya want from me?

Oh, Nova! I wasn't blaming you for ANYTHING! You are too wise and respectful of others' beliefs to behave in such a manner. I was just disagreeing with your statement that Christians to do not proselytize today and was surprised by it because in my experience it is so prevalent. Proselytizing is a very common behavior withinChristianity despite the fact that not every Christian actively proselytizes.

 

[Cypros]

It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.

No human explanations, true. It is called Mother Nature and she, IMO, is the greatest power in existence.

 

[Details]

It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.

Most of what you are talking about - yes, science does explain all these things. A soul - no scientific explanation of that, and things out past where we can see - actually they're awfully good at that - the big bang theory and all.

Not that this makes a difference. Once upon a time we didn't know what caused thunder - did that mean it was caused by God back then, but by electrostatic discharge once we do know? Just because we don't have a full explanation of some things doesn't make them proof of god.

 

[Maral]

That is totally ridiculous. If we meet we can shake hands, etc. and we can confirm that each of us exist. Or if someone comes up to you and viciously starts stabbing you with a knife and you start screaming in pain and you fear you may never see your loved ones again are you still going to doubt they exist? Not a chance.

The religous sometimes try to pass off such a pathetic attempt to justify the existence of god because they know it is a futile effort.

It is true that you cannot prove that god doesn't exist but when you are dealing with infinite space and time you cannot prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist so your argument is invalid.

However if you look at the history of mankind and religion it is UNEQUIVOCALLY clear that this "god" is just a man made concept to justify his suffering, give him hope for immortality, and give him a meaning of life.

In other words the preponderance of evidence shows that god is simply a creation of man and therefore doesn't exist. If you look at this site you'll see some amazing info that NO ONE in the WORLD can refute!!

www.GodisImaginary.com

From Aquinas' "Summa Theologica" Link

I answer that, Demonstration can be made in two ways: One is through the
cause, and is called "a priori," and this is to argue from what is prior
absolutely. The other is through the effect, and is called a
demonstration "a posteriori"; this is to argue from what is prior
relatively only to us. When an effect is better known to us than its
cause, from the effect we proceed to the knowledge of the cause. And from
every effect the existence of its proper cause can be demonstrated, so
long as its effects are better known to us; because since every effect
depends upon its cause, if the effect exists, the cause must pre-exist.
Hence the existence of God, in so far as it is not self-evident to us,
can be demonstrated from those of His effects which are known to us.

 

[accordn2me]

Anne Rice wrote a book titled Christ the Lord. There were a lot of interesting things in her author's notes about her spiritual journey. Part of what makes Rice's fiction so fascinating is how much she research she puts into the times and places she is writing about.

She talks about the debate among scholars as to when the gospels were written. She said something about none of the gospels mentioning the destruction of the temple. I'm not sure what she was talking about. Does anyone have a clue?

 

[Cypros]

She talks about the debate among scholars as to when the gospels were written. She said something about none of the gospels mentioning the destruction of the temple. I'm not sure what she was talking about. Does anyone have a clue?

The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70.

I'm guessing that Rice was suggesting the gospels were written before that date due to their lack of mention of the destruction?

 

[accordn2me]

The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70.

I'm guessing that Rice was suggesting the gospels were written before that date due to their lack of mention of the destruction?

That's an accurate guess!:clap:

My memory is not that good and I'm just a tad intimidated by the collective knowledge on this subject. I'm trying to be very careful about what I type. I always fall back on my screen name when I cross the line.:blushing:

Is it a "fact" that the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70, or is that one of the claims that can't be proven?

What are your thoughts on when the gospels were written in light of the fact that not one of them mentions one of the most significant events of the time (I hope you know what I'm trying to ask:doh: )?

 

[Dark Knight]

That's an accurate guess!:clap:

My memory is not that good and I'm just a tad intimidated by the collective knowledge on this subject. I'm trying to be very careful about what I type. I always fall back on my screen name when I cross the line.:blushing:

Is it a "fact" that the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70, or is that one of the claims that can't be proven?

What are your thoughts on when the gospels were written in light of the fact that not one of them mentions one of the most significant events of the time (I hope you know what I'm trying to ask:doh: )?

It may show the Gospels were written earlier than scholars guess. But the gospels are not a history lesson, either. It's an important event, but not relevant to the faith, necessarily. But since that's 37 years after Christ's death, it may very well show how early they were written.

 

[narlacat]

I'm amazed Catholics and Muslims didn't exterminate each other, lol. But Jesus did promise, "Even the gates of Hell wouldn't prevail against His church."

As I said above, I don't see Muslims doing much missionary work, but could be wrong. I do agree they used to spread their religion via the sword quite a bit, hence the battles. And yes, we did a few times as well back in the day.

Judaism will alays survive persecution I think. It is a stronge and ancient faith that survived the worst of evils in Hitler. It played a huge role in the history of the world and will play it's role in the future of it.

Just a few, glad you conceded that much.

 

[narlacat]

The www.GodisImaginary.com site actually offers some EVIDENCE that god is simply a creation of man while the religious side has NO EVIDENCE whatsoever, only delusion and dogma.

The burden of proof lies on those who are trying to show a certain process or thing exists and no one in the world can meet that burden.

Get back to me when you can show your god actually exists and isn't anything more than a fairy tale.

Hehe don't ya love alliteration

Still, delusion and dogma aside, I still believe in God.
(and I haven't even read the Bible!)

Well, according to my 8 yr old, when you look up in the sky and see rays of sunlight through the clouds- that's God...............lol

 

[accordn2me]

It may show the Gospels were written earlier than scholars guess. But the gospels are not a history lesson, either. It's an important event, but not relevant to the faith, necessarily. But since that's 37 years after Christ's death, it may very well show how early they were written.

Greetings, Dark Knight,

I decided to Google the destruction of the temple...clicked on the first link that came up...now I'm completely confused (there were two temples!)...par for the course!

Here's the link & a bit of what it says:
http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_35_-_Destruction_of_the_Temple.asp

We left off the story in the last installment with Vespasian being made Caesar and returning to Rome. His son Titus now takes over the siege of Jerusalem.

Titus attacks just after Passover in the year 70 CE, battering the city with his catapults which propel a rain of stone, iron and fire onto the population. By then, the city defenders are weakened from hunger and perhaps even more so from internal strife. Even so, it takes Titus two months of intense fighting before he is able to breach the walls of the city.

The date for this event is 17th of the Hebrew month of Tammuz. To this day, religious Jews fast on the 17th of Tammuz in commemoration of this event.

The destruction of the Second Temple is one of the most important events in the history of the Jewish people, and certainly one of the most depressing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you saying that this event is 37 years after Jesus was crucified?

After reading that information, I think Anne Rice has a significant point when she questions why the gospels don't mention this if they were written after it happened.

 

[Cypros]

Greetings, Dark Knight,

I decided to Google the destruction of the temple...clicked on the first link that came up...now I'm completely confused (there were two temples!)...par for the course!

Here's the link & a bit of what it says:
http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_35_-_Destruction_of_the_Temple.asp

We left off the story in the last installment with Vespasian being made Caesar and returning to Rome. His son Titus now takes over the siege of Jerusalem.

Titus attacks just after Passover in the year 70 CE, battering the city with his catapults which propel a rain of stone, iron and fire onto the population. By then, the city defenders are weakened from hunger and perhaps even more so from internal strife. Even so, it takes Titus two months of intense fighting before he is able to breach the walls of the city.

The date for this event is 17th of the Hebrew month of Tammuz. To this day, religious Jews fast on the 17th of Tammuz in commemoration of this event.

The destruction of the Second Temple is one of the most important events in the history of the Jewish people, and certainly one of the most depressing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you saying that this event is 37 years after Jesus was crucified?

After reading that information, I think Anne Rice has a significant point when she questions why the gospels don't mention this if they were written after it happened.

The destruction of Jerusalem's Temple is an historical event. It is well documented by the Romans (including a depiction of the sacking -- stealing of the menorah -- on the Arch of Titus in Rome) and is also quite evident in the archaeological record. The destroyed temple had been built under Herod the Great. His rebuilding of the central Jewish shrine was intended to bring him favor with the Jews since he was not Jewish. Herod was of Idumaean and Nabataean descent (in other words, he was arab). However, the label "Second Temple" is misleading since there are accounts of three temples. There was the temple built by Solomon in the early years of the so-called United Monarchy. However, there is absolutely no evidence that this temple actually existed and the whole United Monarchy period under David and Solomon is disputed. According to the OT, Solomon's temple existed until the 6th century BCE when the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem -- the beginning of the Babylonian exile. When the Persians conquered Babylonian a generation later under Cyrus, they allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem and to rebuild their temple. This temple was in great disrepair by the 1st century BCE when Herod rebuilt it. His was the third version of the temple and yet it is referred to as the "Second Temple Period". Confusing I know.


As for Ann Rice's theory that the gospels were written prior to 70 CE due to the lack of reference to the destruction of the temple, I don't think it is a strong argument. The gospels deal with the years of Jesus' life which ended 40 years before the destruction of the temple. There would be no reason to discuss an event in 70 CE when your story is focused on the events of 4BCE-ca 33 CE.