Why then are you making my cat sit in front of my MONITOR!!! What did I ever dream up to do with you? :slap:Nova said:Amen. Except Details got one thing wrong: the world is MY dream and the rest of you don't exist.
Why then are you making my cat sit in front of my MONITOR!!! What did I ever dream up to do with you? :slap:Nova said:Amen. Except Details got one thing wrong: the world is MY dream and the rest of you don't exist.
Cypros said:They aren't? Then how do you explain the proselytizers in my neighborhood (they have stopped coming to my door) every few weeks, and little Jesus booklets are placed in mailboxes all across America, and that it is not uncommon to find someone standing on a street corner preaching and condemning all of us to hell is we do not accept Jesus as our Lord? When my brother and his family relocated to a new State, they encountered a very aggressive effort to identify their religion and make them active participants in the local church (the one associated with a recently miraculously cured minister). I hear o similar experiences all over the country. Quite a number of my college students have already participated in mission work (Catholic missions in this case). Cultures all over the world are being decimated by the conversion of traditional societies and belief systems to a hierarchical and Christianity. I remember stories of all of the missionaries waiting just over the border during the initial invasion of Iraq, waiting for the opportunity to sweep in and convert the muslims.
If you visit Jerusalem you will be bombarded with Christians of various denominations hanging out at the popular tourist traps to trap visitors and try to convert them. This is the only case where I have witnessed Jewish "proselytizers", although they are not interested in the goyim. They want to get the lapsed Jews and introduce them to orthodoxy.
Details said:Why then are you making my cat sit in front of my MONITOR!!! What did I ever dream up to do with you? :slap:![]()
That is totally ridiculous. If we meet we can shake hands, etc. and we can confirm that each of us exist. Or if someone comes up to you and viciously starts stabbing you with a knife and you start screaming in pain and you fear you may never see your loved ones again are you still going to doubt they exist? Not a chance.Details said:You can't prove god exists or doesn't exist - there's no way to be certain. Heck, you can't even prove you exist - this whole world is, as you should know, merely an elaborate dream I am having right now. I might dream you knock on my door and introduce yourself, but that doesn't make you real. I just wish I'd stop dreaming that my cat is sitting here in front of my monitor while I'm trying to type!
Individual elements of these stories can be shown to be true or false, but it's so far back in the past, that you can't be 100% sure we've found everything, and any of that may simple prove the bible is more metaphorical than previously thought (to those who believe) - like the bit about if Elijah really ascended into heaven, or is this a poetical way of saying he moved on to another place - maybe the same could be true of Jesus, etc.
Everything you've said has a natural explanation and nothing supernatural is required for ANY of it. Haven't you ever taken a biology or life sciences class?txsvicki said:It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.
txsvicki said:It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.
UM&AMWfan said:That is totally ridiculous. If we meet we can shake hands, etc. and we can confirm that each of us exist. Or if someone comes up to you and viciously starts stabbing you with a knife and you start screaming in pain and you fear you may never see your loved ones again are you still going to doubt they exist? Not a chance.
Nova said:Ouch! How did *I* become responsible for the behavior of Christian missionaries?
Despite all you describe, the majority of Christians aren't out pestering tourists in Jerusalem. I've already agreed to take your word that, today, Christian proselytizing is more aggressive than Moslem.
Whaddaya want from me?
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txsvicki said:It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.
Most of what you are talking about - yes, science does explain all these things. A soul - no scientific explanation of that, and things out past where we can see - actually they're awfully good at that - the big bang theory and all.txsvicki said:It amazes me that so many people over the ages discount God and the Bible and have all sorts of so-called knowledge about everything, but not one can explain how the breath of life got into living creatures and how everything from humans down to tiny little germs are designed so intricately or how space came to be or what is out there past where we can't even see. There are no human explanations for these things at all or about where we/our souls go after death.
UM&AMWfan said:That is totally ridiculous. If we meet we can shake hands, etc. and we can confirm that each of us exist. Or if someone comes up to you and viciously starts stabbing you with a knife and you start screaming in pain and you fear you may never see your loved ones again are you still going to doubt they exist? Not a chance.
The religous sometimes try to pass off such a pathetic attempt to justify the existence of god because they know it is a futile effort.
It is true that you cannot prove that god doesn't exist but when you are dealing with infinite space and time you cannot prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist so your argument is invalid.
However if you look at the history of mankind and religion it is UNEQUIVOCALLY clear that this "god" is just a man made concept to justify his suffering, give him hope for immortality, and give him a meaning of life.
In other words the preponderance of evidence shows that god is simply a creation of man and therefore doesn't exist. If you look at this site you'll see some amazing info that NO ONE in the WORLD can refute!!
www.GodisImaginary.com
accordn2me said:She talks about the debate among scholars as to when the gospels were written. She said something about none of the gospels mentioning the destruction of the temple. I'm not sure what she was talking about. Does anyone have a clue?
That's an accurate guess!:clap:Cypros said:The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70.
I'm guessing that Rice was suggesting the gospels were written before that date due to their lack of mention of the destruction?
It may show the Gospels were written earlier than scholars guess. But the gospels are not a history lesson, either. It's an important event, but not relevant to the faith, necessarily. But since that's 37 years after Christ's death, it may very well show how early they were written.accordn2me said:That's an accurate guess!:clap:
My memory is not that good and I'm just a tad intimidated by the collective knowledge on this subject. I'm trying to be very careful about what I type. I always fall back on my screen name when I cross the line.:blushing:
Is it a "fact" that the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70, or is that one of the claims that can't be proven?
What are your thoughts on when the gospels were written in light of the fact that not one of them mentions one of the most significant events of the time (I hope you know what I'm trying to ask:doh: )?
Just a few, glad you conceded that much.Dark Knight said:I'm amazed Catholics and Muslims didn't exterminate each other, lol. But Jesus did promise, "Even the gates of Hell wouldn't prevail against His church."
As I said above, I don't see Muslims doing much missionary work, but could be wrong. I do agree they used to spread their religion via the sword quite a bit, hence the battles. And yes, we did a few times as well back in the day.
Judaism will alays survive persecution I think. It is a stronge and ancient faith that survived the worst of evils in Hitler. It played a huge role in the history of the world and will play it's role in the future of it.
Hehe don't ya love alliterationUM&AMWfan said:The www.GodisImaginary.com site actually offers some EVIDENCE that god is simply a creation of man while the religious side has NO EVIDENCE whatsoever, only delusion and dogma.
The burden of proof lies on those who are trying to show a certain process or thing exists and no one in the world can meet that burden.
Get back to me when you can show your god actually exists and isn't anything more than a fairy tale.
Greetings, Dark Knight,Dark Knight said:It may show the Gospels were written earlier than scholars guess. But the gospels are not a history lesson, either. It's an important event, but not relevant to the faith, necessarily. But since that's 37 years after Christ's death, it may very well show how early they were written.
accordn2me said:Greetings, Dark Knight,
I decided to Google the destruction of the temple...clicked on the first link that came up...now I'm completely confused (there were two temples!)...par for the course!
Here's the link & a bit of what it says:
http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_35_-_Destruction_of_the_Temple.asp
We left off the story in the last installment with Vespasian being made Caesar and returning to Rome. His son Titus now takes over the siege of Jerusalem.
Titus attacks just after Passover in the year 70 CE, battering the city with his catapults which propel a rain of stone, iron and fire onto the population. By then, the city defenders are weakened from hunger and perhaps even more so from internal strife. Even so, it takes Titus two months of intense fighting before he is able to breach the walls of the city.
The date for this event is 17th of the Hebrew month of Tammuz. To this day, religious Jews fast on the 17th of Tammuz in commemoration of this event.
The destruction of the Second Temple is one of the most important events in the history of the Jewish people, and certainly one of the most depressing.
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Are you saying that this event is 37 years after Jesus was crucified?
After reading that information, I think Anne Rice has a significant point when she questions why the gospels don't mention this if they were written after it happened.