Documentary Claims Jesus Was Married

[Crow_Ascending]

I can't see why the info that Jesus was married would have been left out of any gospels because of succession issues. Jesus, according to the Gospels, left the ministry in Peter's hands and Peter was married.

 

[Nova]

While it is true that the Bible has been copied many times, all of the ancient documents were copied by hand and the copyists usually worked from one or two documents. They made many copies of the source copy, preserving the source and comparing it to the new copies. The Jews took great care in copying the Scriptures of the Old Testament because of the strong convictions they held. They believed that adding anything would be punishable by hell. Josephus attested to this in "Against Apion". Of course there were minor copying errors, but it is simply not true to say that these minor errors made over time changed the copies so much that they didn't look anything like the original document. The accuracy of the documents was confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls.

There are over 5,000 Greek New Testament copies in existence, many more than any other historical document. These manuscripts were copied from the original or good copies of the original. Historians and Bible scholars have compared them for variations. The few variations that do exist are rarely important to the meaning of the text.

Another way that we can see that the copies of the New Testament have remained virtually unchanged from the original manuscripts is through the works of the early church fathers. Almost the entire New Testament could be reproduced from citations contained in their works.

Whether or not one believes the Bible is the Word of God, it cannot be dismissed as a historical document.

Maral, I believe we are using the term "historical document" in two different ways.

In the sense that the New Testament works date from the first or second century, B.C., yes, they are relevant as historical artifacts, just as any other accounts from those times.

But they are not "historical documents" in our modern sense of the term, i.e., attempts to record events in an objective manner.

 

[PaperDoll]

Um... Except that we have NO record of what he was doing for most of his life, or even where he was. For all we know, he left a large family behind when he began his ministry at age 30.

Maral, there is a reason why early Christian writers might have suppressed the fact that Jesus and Mary M. were married: those early writers were advocating for a movement that had lost its leader. Acknowledging a spouse and, particularly, offspring would have complicated the issue of who was to be leader of the new church.

(Not that I think Jesus was married, nor do I care. But there are certainly reasons why that info might have been willfully omitted from some gospels.)

We don't need to have a record for every little thing he did.. I think we just need to know who He is and what His purpose was... IMO...

 

[Dark Knight]

This is all as silly as saying He was capable of sin because of his humanity.

The Gospels weren't just randomly selected in the 4th Century, they were chose in part because they were in widespread use in Christian communities from the very beginning. The Apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit, who came upon them as "tongues of fire." The Gospels are God inspired, there is no human error. You cannot find even a loose translation claiming Jesus was married with children. This is the Word of God people are questioning, and that is blasphemy. Trying questioning the Quran like that. At the foot of the Cross was Jesus' mother. No wife, no kids. And an apostle.

Skeptics and non-believers will give credibility to anything that can justify their belief system. If it were proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus had siblings or even a wife, it wouldn't affect the faith at all. But it just isn't credible. Saying He wasn't resurrected is blasphemy, however, and Christians shouldn't have to like it.

Our faith is what it is, and we believe what we believe. We believe in the God inspired scriptures that have been widely used since the very beginnings of the Christian era, and we also use other ancient antephons to guide our beliefs. This isn't stuff we just pulled out of a hat. And, ultimately, while we are to witness our faith via our good works, our salvation is not reliant on justifying our beliefs to mankind, including some flaky film director.

 

[mrsjonnob]

Um... Except that we have NO record of what he was doing for most of his life, or even where he was. For all we know, he left a large family behind when he began his ministry at age 30.

Maral, there is a reason why early Christian writers might have suppressed the fact that Jesus and Mary M. were married: those early writers were advocating for a movement that had lost its leader. Acknowledging a spouse and, particularly, offspring would have complicated the issue of who was to be leader of the new church.

(Not that I think Jesus was married, nor do I care. But there are certainly reasons why that info might have been willfully omitted from some gospels.)

I totally agree with you and IMO, if we are to emulate Christ and strive to be Christlike, and the Bible says we should multiply and replenish, then it would make sense that Christ most likely would have married and had a family.b

 

[Nova]

We don't need to have a record for every little thing he did.. I think we just need to know who He is and what His purpose was... IMO...

Really? Cool. Please fill us in on what Jesus was doing from age 12 to age 30. I've never encountered anyone who could do that.

 

[Dark Knight]

I totally agree with you and IMO, if we are to emulate Christ and strive to be Christlike, and the Bible says we should multiply and replenish, then it would make sense that Christ most likely would have married and had a family.b

People know if they are ancestors of kings, famous people, outlaws, etc. Do you REALLY think there is any way on heck ancestors of Jesus Christ could be unknown or kept secret? That's insane because it is impossible. And furthermore, Jesus' mission was NOT like ours is. He did not come to multiply, but to save the world.

 

[Dark Knight]

Really? Cool. Please fill us in on what Jesus was doing from age 12 to age 30. I've never encountered anyone who could do that.

Completely irrelevant to the faith, Nova. His public ministry was all that mattered, and that was pretty well covered by God-inspired writers. His Mother was more of a companion to Him than any other woman throughout scripture. Does that sound like a married guy to you? lol!

 

[mrsjonnob]

People know if they are ancestors of kings, famous people, outlaws, etc. Do you REALLY think there is any way on heck ancestors of Jesus Christ could be unknown or kept secret? That's insane because it is impossible. And furthermore, Jesus' mission was NOT like ours is. He did not come to multiply, but to save the world.

I am sorry, I disagree. His mission was to be an example for all mankind as He taught and ultimately to be our Savior and outlet to eternal life. I don't think having a family and being the Savior of man are mutually exclusive.

 

[mrsjonnob]

People know if they are ancestors of kings, famous people, outlaws, etc. Do you REALLY think there is any way on heck ancestors of Jesus Christ could be unknown or kept secret? That's insane because it is impossible. And furthermore, Jesus' mission was NOT like ours is. He did not come to multiply, but to save the world.

Another thing-

How many people do you that can trace their family tree back to 20-30 AD?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

We don't need to have a record for every little thing he did..

Good thing that believers don't need that, because it's not available. From age 12 to age 28-30, nothing is recorded in the Bible about Jesus' life, as Nova has already pointed out.

He wouldn't have had time for a wife and kids

The point is that he probably would have had time for a wife and kids before he entered fulltime public ministry at about age 30. And even after, because various women accompanied Jesus during his ministry, according to the New Testament.

There were women who traveled with Jesus and his disciples (not just the original 12, later called apostles). One description is in Luke 8:

1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

Another is in Mark 15:

Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there.

 

[Dark Knight]

Good thing that believers don't need that, because it's not available. From age 12 to age 28-30, nothing is recorded in the Bible about Jesus' life, as Nova has already pointed out.



The point is that he probably would have had time for a wife and kids before he entered fulltime public ministry at about age 30. And even after, because various women accompanied Jesus during his ministry, according to the New Testament.

There were women who traveled with Jesus and his disciples (not just the original 12, later called apostles). One description is in Luke 8:

1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

Another is in Mark 15:

Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there.

OF course the Savior of the World and the Son of Man would have women followers, LOL! That doesn't mean he married them!!!!!!! :doh:

 

[mrsjonnob]

I am totally guessing here...

But Christians believe Christ knew his mission and that he would eventually be persucted and sacrificed.

Knowing this, I think hemight have kept his family sort of secret or secluded to keep them safe.

The fact that Christ may have had a family doesn't rule out that he was resurrected.

 

[mrsjonnob]

OF course the Savior of the World and the Son of Man would have women followers, LOL! That doesn't mean he married them!!!!!!! :doh:

Yah, I am sure he would have just had occasional hook ups

Why is it so hard to believe that he may have married and had children? I don't get it.

 

[Nova]

Completely irrelevant to the faith, Nova. His public ministry was all that mattered, and that was pretty well covered by God-inspired writers. His Mother was more of a companion to Him than any other woman throughout scripture. Does that sound like a married guy to you? lol!

Understood, DK. But the question here is whether Jesus could have been married and a poster asserted that Jesus "didn't have time." I was pointing out that he had plenty of time.

Your argument that his "public ministry was all that mattered" is actually an argument FOR the possibility of his marriage despite such a union not being mentioned in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Maybe Jesus was married and, as you assert, it simply wasn't important to the writers of those gospels.

 

[Dark Knight]

Another thing-

How many people do you that can trace their family tree back to 20-30 AD?

Trust me, if you were related to the Son of God, you wouldn't lose track of that fact, lol. It would be easily passed from generation to generation.

 

[Maral]

I was referring to the earliest writers, Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, who are credited with citing gospels and letters of the present canon that were in circulation during their lifetime. The actual citations are often fragmentary words or phrases rather than the quotations I was led to believe had been made.

Are you just as disappointed with all ancient manuscripts where we only have copies of the originals?

 

[Dark Knight]

Understood, DK. But the question here is whether Jesus could have been married and a poster asserted that Jesus "didn't have time." I was pointing out that he had plenty of time.

Your argument that his "public ministry was all that mattered" is actually an argument FOR the possibility of his marriage despite such a union not being mentioned in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Maybe Jesus was married and, as you assert, it simply wasn't important to the writers of those gospels.

Then why would the writers mention almost every other woman BUT his wife? Why wasn't she at the foot of the cross like His Mother? His mom gets all the mentions but not His wife? Illogical.

 

[Dark Knight]

Are you just as disappointed with all ancient manuscripts where we only have copies of the originals?

Oooooh, good point Maral! :clap:

 

[mrsjonnob]

Trust me, if you were related to the Son of God, you wouldn't lose track of that fact, lol. It would be easily passed from generation to generation.

Not necessarily, especially if it meant your family might be sought out and killed for that claim.

That argument doesn't work for me. I can't prove Christ had a wife/kids and you can't prove he didn't. I am not saying he did, I just believe it is possible and it isn't blasphemy to entertain the possibility.