Documentary Claims Jesus Was Married

[LovelyPigeon]

Thanks, GreenEyedGirl, for the reference to the historical description of Easter as a cycle rather than a single day.

The cycle described, which would commence on April 1 for 2007, still doesn't coincide with the commencement of Easter (and the documentary on Discovery Channel) this year.

Also, the Greek Orthodox Easter and the Western Easter don't always coincide because they calculate Easter Sunday by different formulae.

For the western church:

Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or after the day of the vernal equinox; this particular ecclesiastical full moon is the 14th day of a tabular lunation (new moon); and the vernal equinox is fixed as March 21, resulting in that Easter can never occur before March 22 or later than April 25. - http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html

The Orthodox Church uses the Julian calendar instead of the Gregorian calendar to determine Easter Sunday, so the calculations are usually not in tandem.

 

[reb]

<and, as we all know,, "Easter" is just the name for the old pagan spring festival, that the christians ripped off anyway.. and attached their own resurrection myth to it, so they could convert more followers.
Your constant blasphemy of our faith by calling it fairy tales and mythology does not constitute critical thinking, nice try.>

why does the truth upset you so? pretty much every culture has its rebirth and resurrection myths... do you think christians invented it or something...? it's by no means an original idea.. christians adapted it from cultures before them, took the old goddess religions and put the virgin mary's face on it, to make it more palatable to pagans.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Lenten season for us Catholics and some other denominations started already. All part of the preparations for Easter itself.

But there again, not a part or recognition of every "Christian" denomination for Easter. The timing of Easter Sunday varies quite a bit among denominations.

 

[GreenEyedGirl]

Thanks, GreenEyedGirl, for the reference to the historical description of Easter as a cycle rather than a single day.

The cycle described, which would commence on April 1 for 2007, still doesn't coincide with the commencement of Easter (and the documentary on Discovery Channel) this year.

Also, the Greek Orthodox Easter and the Western Easter don't always coincide because they calculate Easter Sunday by different formulae.

For the western church:

Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or after the day of the vernal equinox; this particular ecclesiastical full moon is the 14th day of a tabular lunation (new moon); and the vernal equinox is fixed as March 21, resulting in that Easter can never occur before March 22 or later than April 25. - http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html

The Orthodox Church uses the Julian calendar instead of the Gregorian calendar to determine Easter Sunday, so the calculations are usually not in tandem.

I believe it is "Easter" season we are discussing, not just the day. Do you prepare for Halloween? I know most people discuss what they're going to wear/do for that day. That would therefore be called the "Halloween" season. Do you go to the store a few days before Thanksgiving to buy your turkey or ham? That would be what we call the "Thanksgiving" season. Sure, Easter day is just one day, but Easter season happens to last quite a bit longer than just 'one day'.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I am sure you know, LP, about the problem of getting useful preserved DNA (from the JonBenet Ramsey case for example). Now, if they had the bones to analyze that could yield something, but those bones were reburied in 1980. Perhaps Cameron will ask the Israel government to exhume them in order to acquire Jesus' DNA??

In the JBR case, useful DNA is currently in the CODIS system.

I don't know from the information I've found about the burial of bones from the ossuaries in question if the bones can be recovered for DNA testing. If they can be, I hope they will be. The material available now seems to be from the ossuaries, and is apparently reliable enough for comparison purposes.

I can't see how a Christian acceptance of any human DNA as belonging to Jesus Christ God would be permitted, though.

By definition, the Christian Jesus has only the human DNA of a female combined with the DNA of Jehovah God--a unique combination in all the history of humans.

Jesus as Ascended Christ cannot have earthly remains which can be identified, and Jesus child of Mary and Joseph,with their DNA combination, would not be a Christian Jesus.

It's a catch-22 for identification purposes.

 

[SadieMae]

But there again, not a part or recognition of every "Christian" denomination for Easter. The timing of Easter Sunday varies quite a bit among denominations.

Kinda like my family reunions...southern relatives do it in May, others in the north in September. But the reason for the celebration is the same, and all family members are welcome to participate in either or both months. We don't get too technical about dates.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I believe it is "Easter" season we are discussing, not just the day. Do you prepare for Halloween? I know most people discuss what they're going to wear/do for that day. That would therefore be called the "Halloween" season. Do you go to the store a few days before Thanksgiving to buy your turkey or ham? That would be what we call the "Thanksgiving" season. Sure, Easter day is just one day, but Easter season happens to last quite a bit longer than just 'one day'.

I don't prepare for Halloween, nor do I discuss or consider what I'm going to wear or do for that day. I can see, though, how you might consider the Halloween season to extend from the day fall decorations appear in Michael's and Hobby Lobby until Oct 31. (Next day, everything's 75% off )

I do buy a frozen turkey before Thanksgiving day, in order for the turkey to thaw out sufficiently to cook on that Thursday. (I learned this years ago, when my turkey was still frozen stiff on Thanksgiving morning!)

But if we're going to extend the season of each holiday according to advertising of it and the preparation for it, that could encompass months rather than days, and you make almost any allowance for an occurence to fall within its "season".

IMO archeological discoveries and documentaries about Biblical controversies don't happen just at Easter and Christmas holidays.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Kinda like my family reunions...southern relatives do it in May, others in the north in September. But the reason for the celebration is the same, and all family members are welcome to participate in either or both months. We don't get too technical about dates.

Being GRITS, I sure see that point. Family reunions aren't a fixed date or even year with my Southern family, but "decoration" at extended family gravesites always occurs in early June.

The actual date of the birth of Jesus is unknown, and wasn't widely celebrated by early Christians. Christmas as a celebration is a relatively modern choice.

Likewise, the actual date of the death of Jesus is unknown, and the calculations of modern Easter celebrations differ.

Even in the gospels, the day and time of Jesus' death varies. Mark 15:25: Jesus was crucified on the “third hour.” John 19:14-15: Jesus was crucified on the “sixth hour.” John has Jesus crucified on the eve of the Passover, while the other gospels have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover.

 

[Details]

It's not like this is some new discovery - this is just a filmmaker using a flake's theory, some partial statistics, and the hope that people will be curious enough to see his movie, if it sounds like it's something outrageous - either to debunk it, or to see if there is some new truth to learn about their faith (were it real - wouldn't it make sense to learn the truth?)

I'd imagine he may be timing the publicity blitz to be near enough to Easter - but that's hardly a conspiracy of scientists and satanists to make discoveries near easter. This is old news, rewrapped for publicity purposes. And he's getting the desired and predictable reaction. It's all a game - although I don't much like the side effect of all the blaming of atheists and agnostics and scientists - no matter that scienists by and large are the primary debunkers of this new theory!

 

[SadieMae]

Being GRITS, I sure see that point. Family reunions aren't a fixed date or even year with my Southern family, but "decoration" at extended family gravesites always occurs in early June.

The actual date of the birth of Jesus is unknown, and wasn't widely celebrated by early Christians. Christmas as a celebration is a relatively modern choice.

Likewise, the actual date of the death of Jesus is unknown, and the calculations of modern Easter celebrations differ.

Even in the gospels, the day and time of Jesus' death varies. Mark 15:25: Jesus was crucified on the “third hour.” John 19:14-15: Jesus was crucified on the “sixth hour.” John has Jesus crucified on the eve of the Passover, while the other gospels have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover.

Oh I wish I could find where I read this, it was many years ago, but it had to do with historical findings that Jesus was born in the Spring months. Something about the sheep grazing, and other animals turned out in pastures, which was not done during winter months. It mentioned a reference in the bible about this. Guess I'll have to and try to find it. Anyways, the article said this was a huge event, just as the winter solstice was to Pagans. Somehow both events got merged and Jesus' birth got moved around the solstice. Not that it matters to me when He was actually born...it just shows how history gets rewritten.

Reb does has valid points based on historical fact. But, when I die and find there is no God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory...ya know what, I WAS a decent and good person while I was here, even if there is no here after or resurection, based on belief in the Word and faith.

 

[Details]

Oh I wish I could find where I read this, it was many years ago, but it had to do with historical findings that Jesus was born in the Spring months. Something about the sheep grazing, and other animals turned out in pastures, which was not done during winter months. It mentioned a reference in the bible about this. Guess I'll have to and try to find it. Anyways, the article said this was a huge event, just as the winter solstice was to Pagans. Somehow both events got merged and Jesus' birth got moved around the solstice. Not that it matters to me when He was actually born...it just shows how history gets rewritten.

Reb does has valid points based on historical fact. But, when I die and find there is no God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory...ya know what, I WAS a decent and good person while I was here, even if there is no here after or resurection, based on belief in the Word and faith.

I remember the same.

I've been a good and decent person too - not based on faith of any kind, nor on any bible. After all - what do we leave behind, but what we've done and the people we've helped?

 

[Maral]

While I realize that you have probably taken this info almost word-for-word from internet posts of apologists, if you examine the actual citations of those early church fathers you may find yourself disappointed. I know that I was (and I'm a Southern Baptist cradle roller, albeit as an adult I'm a 'flaming' liberal non-literalist who questions the claims of inerrancy).

What was it that disappointed you? While I haven't read all of the church fathers yet, I've read parts of most of them. In the works of Tertullian alone, there are numerous citations referencing the New Testament.

 

[Dark Knight]

While I realize that you have probably taken this info almost word-for-word from internet posts of apologists, if you examine the actual citations of those early church fathers you may find yourself disappointed. I know that I was (and I'm a Southern Baptist cradle roller, albeit as an adult I'm a 'flaming' liberal non-literalist who questions the claims of inerrancy).

Who also believes Scott Peterson is innocent, iirc. So much for rational thinking. :crazy:

 

[Dark Knight]

It's not like this is some new discovery - this is just a filmmaker using a flake's theory, some partial statistics, and the hope that people will be curious enough to see his movie, if it sounds like it's something outrageous - either to debunk it, or to see if there is some new truth to learn about their faith (were it real - wouldn't it make sense to learn the truth?)

I'd imagine he may be timing the publicity blitz to be near enough to Easter - but that's hardly a conspiracy of scientists and satanists to make discoveries near easter. This is old news, rewrapped for publicity purposes. And he's getting the desired and predictable reaction. It's all a game - although I don't much like the side effect of all the blaming of atheists and agnostics and scientists - no matter that scienists by and large are the primary debunkers of this new theory!

Satanists are NOT the ones Satan uses to try and attack the Church or It's members. It's those who don't believe he exists. And maybe even a few who do.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

What was it that disappointed you? While I haven't read all of the church fathers yet, I've read parts of most of them. In the works of Tertullian alone, there are numerous citations referencing the New Testament.

I was referring to the earliest writers, Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, who are credited with citing gospels and letters of the present canon that were in circulation during their lifetime. The actual citations are often fragmentary words or phrases rather than the quotations I was led to believe had been made.

 

[2luvmy]

Just curious...what does it matter if Jesus was married and fathered a child/ren? I would still believe in him and it wouldn't diminish the works that he did.

 

[SadieMae]

Just curious...what does it matter if Jesus was married and fathered a child/ren? I would still believe in him and it wouldn't diminish the works that he did.

I have the same sentiments...it wouldn't matter to me either.

 

[Maral]

Just curious...what does it matter if Jesus was married and fathered a child/ren? I would still believe in him and it wouldn't diminish the works that he did.

Since Christians believe that Christ was fully human and fully divine, there is no reason that He could not have been married and fathered children.

But there is no credible historical evidence that He was married. The Gospels never even hint that He may have been married and there would be absolutely no reason for the early Church to suppress any information that told of His being married.

 

[PaperDoll]

I personally don't think Jesus was ever married.. He was smart .. hehe.. He also came with ONE goal and he fullfilled that goal by dying for our sins.. He also performed miracles so we would believe he was truly the Son of God. He had no reason to get married.. NONE!!! He wouldn't have had time for a wife and kids, IMO.. He came to do the will of God and He did just that...

 

[Nova]

I personally don't think Jesus was ever married.. He was smart .. hehe.. He also came with ONE goal and he fullfilled that goal by dying for our sins.. He also performed miracles so we would believe he was truly the Son of God. He had no reason to get married.. NONE!!! He wouldn't have had time for a wife and kids, IMO.. He came to do the will of God and He did just that...

Um... Except that we have NO record of what he was doing for most of his life, or even where he was. For all we know, he left a large family behind when he began his ministry at age 30.

Maral, there is a reason why early Christian writers might have suppressed the fact that Jesus and Mary M. were married: those early writers were advocating for a movement that had lost its leader. Acknowledging a spouse and, particularly, offspring would have complicated the issue of who was to be leader of the new church.

(Not that I think Jesus was married, nor do I care. But there are certainly reasons why that info might have been willfully omitted from some gospels.)