Does Anybody Believe George Sexually Abused Casey? POLL ADDED

[tlcya]

I have only ever had my mother, or husband in delivery room. That said, I find nothing at all woogy or weird about a grandpa being present. Whether it be his own daughter giving birth or his DIL, simply being present in the room does not indicate he was perched down there between her legs, getting a front row seat, so to speak. Many grandpas are present at the birth of their grandchildren. Delivery rooms are set up in such a way taht people who do not want the up close, graphic view, can still enjoy being present (towards the head of the bed) and see absolutely nothing personal, graphic or untoward of their female delivering relative.

I will finish with this. As a SA survivor and one who was able to fix the fracture within my family, my abuser was never present during my deliveries. Neither of us would ever have considered, or allowed such a thing to happen.

 

[kaRN]

I also agree! I have had many people in my delivery room, male and female. It's a personal choice, certainly but I don't see it as sick or disgusting or disturbing as has been suggested throughout this trial.

It's not the presence of a male family member in the delivery room that's disturbing here. It's the presence of someone who allegedly abused ICA since she was 8 being allowed by ICA into the delivery room and it would have been her choice.
I'm mind boggled by that. But then again, I don't believe for a second she was abused by GA.

 

[tlcya]

It's not the presence of a male family member in the delivery room that's disturbing here. It's the presence of someone who allegedly abused ICA since she was 8 being allowed by ICA into the delivery room and it would have been her choice.
I'm mind boggled by that. But then again, I don't believe for a second she was abused by GA.

Exactly, and you made the point with a fourth of the wordage it took me to do it.

 

[txsvicki]

IIRC, Casey told TL, about Lee's attempted molestation, before he went to NY on vacation (or was it when he came back) ? My memory is failing me. I wonder when she told Jesse about this incident, what was going on in their relationship at the time, etc...

The same as with Tony. Probably when she was wanting to move in together. Jesse has said that she was wanting him to get a place with her, but his parents were against living together unmarried. What better way to get the sympathy of a male, and to keep them away from family so they can't compare stories, plus want to be a protector. Jesse has asked Casey why she didn't just move in with Lee, and she came up with that reason if I remember correctly. I noticed that some of the young men testifying spoke of friends living or staying with a sibling so that would be a normal suggestion from any of them who knew that Casey had a brother, and she was bellyaching about living with her parents (which none of them were).

 

[kaRN]

Exactly, and you made the point with a fourth of the wordage it took me to do it.

You gave the idea credibility though tlcox! What do you think of ICA only confiding her allegations of abuse to male lovers and not her female friends? I'm having problems with that concept as well.
ICA comes from a generation that were taught from the time they watched Sesame Street onwards, about good touching and bad touching and who they could go to for help. It wasn't a dirty secret that nobody talked about at school where ICA allegedly did well. Did this young lady really have nobody in the world to confide in until JB and his mitigation team met her a few months ago? I find that hard to believe. My generation was supposed to have paved the way for ICAs. Either we failed completely or ICA failed herself. CA would have acted IMO, if she had known or suspected. What was JG supposed to do years after the fact?

 

[annalyzer]

nope don't believe it

 

[Zoe Bogart]

First, I want to say that I am so sorry that you experienced that and I really appreciate it when abuse victims chime in about this case and comment on what they think Casey might have gone through to turn her into such a monster.

I'm glad to know you finally got away from your situation.

I also wanted to share that my father-in-law was actually in my delivery room. I'd have rather it been my father, but, ... that's not how it worked out that day.

My GYN is the one that made it all happen. 20 years ago. I think you'll find, it's not uncommon for a grand to be in the delivery room...

Long story (and it is a looooooong story) is that my MIL died at 6 AM as she was fighting to stay alive to meet our baby but ... she succumbed to terminal lung cancer whilst I labored. My DH's entire family was there at her deathbed (except my DH, who was at my labor-bed). The funeral home came and removed her body by noon. And there were 10 family members, devastated, with nothing to do. My SIL says "lets visit the birthing room". And they all come over. And my GYN says to me "your epidural is working great, you should really think about letting your FIL witness the birth. He and his wife had all these children in a time when we did not let the husband in the birthing room. It would be very soothing for him." And I look at her like she has 4 eyes.

"Are you <expletive deleted> nuts?" And she says "We can make it very modest. Trust me. It's the right thing to do." And without waiting for my anser, my GYN asks my FIL (while I'm still in shock) if he'd like to watch. And he says "why yes I would".

Okay, that's still a long story... sorry.

But the end of it is, We strapped cameras on him, and told him to get busy taking pix. My SIL got jealous so we let her in to hold my one leg up. My DH had my other leg. And my FIL tried to take video and pix at the same time. LOLOL. And when our DD was born at 6 PM, 12 hours after my FIL had held my MIL as she passed ... the GYN handed my brand newborn DD directly to my FIL - before me even.

OMG. His face. I have never regretted it. We gave her my MIL's name. After all, their spirits passed by each other that day.

He tells his story to this day. People sob. He loves me like crazy. Life is good.

Anyway, it's not weird that GA was there -unless Casey didn't want him there.



was that TMI? :blushing:

It's not my fault. This case makes me crazy. :crazy:

OMG, Emma, you made me cry! What a beautiful story. I think your doctor knew what she was doing. Bless her, bless you, bless the baby, bless everybody. That's awesome.

Now I don't know about people each taking a leg... The only people down by my legs were my doctor and one or two nurses. I didn't want my husband in the room (if you knew him you'd know why - I wasn't up to playing babysitter). No one else was allowed in and if they had been, they would have all been standing near my head, not in my lower region. Although while I was in the labor room, I asked my mother to see what was happening down there and she nearly freaked, liked she hadn't seen me before. She looked, but I never saw anyone look so fast.

Now about George, I could see how a single mother would want her parents there. I also wonder if George was actually looking or was he just being there, maybe comforting her, holding her hand. My dad would have fainted if I had asked he to come "take a look". He was content to wait in the room across the hall, thank you very much. On the other hand, my daughter was in the delivery room when my niece gave birth, as was my SisIL, my niece's mom. Everyone else waited in the waiting room, including baby's father. Don't remember why he chose not to go in.

When I was in the hospital for nearly two months after spinal surgery, the nurses used to tell me about all the Latino families who'd show up for births. Everyone, including great aunts and great uncles would take their turn in the delivery room. After that, they'd be at the nursery window at every viewing waving to their baby. The nurses were amazed at how many used to visit.

I'm thinking maybe with all the single mother's having babies, they'd prefer to have their parents with them while giving birth, especially if the father is AWOL. :waitasec: I dunno.

Just for the record, I don't believe her claims of GA abusing her. If he did, and Lee, too, that's no reason to kill her child, so I think Sex abuse claims are irrelevant in the murder trial. Didn't River Cruz say she and GA just talked, nothing really physical? I'm thinking GA was never quite.....virile. :blushing:

 

[zoey]

OMG, Emma, you made me cry! What a beautiful story. I think your doctor knew what she was doing. Bless her, bless you, bless the baby, bless everybody. That's awesome.

Now I don't know about people each taking a leg... The only people down by my legs were my doctor and one or two nurses. I didn't want my husband in the room (if you knew him you'd know why - I wasn't up to playing babysitter). No one else was allowed in and if they had been, they would have all been standing near my head, not in my lower region. Although while I was in the labor room, I asked my mother to see what was happening down there and she nearly freaked, liked she hadn't seen me before. She looked, but I never saw anyone look so fast.

Now about George, I could see how a single mother would want her parents there. I also wonder if George was actually looking or was he just being there, maybe comforting her, holding her hand. My dad would have fainted if I had asked he to come "take a look". He was content to wait in the room across the hall, thank you very much. On the other hand, my daughter was in the delivery room when my niece gave birth, as was my SisIL, my niece's mom. Everyone else waited in the waiting room, including baby's father. Don't remember why he chose not to go in.

When I was in the hospital for nearly two months after spinal surgery, the nurses used to tell me about all the Latino families who'd show up for births. Everyone, including great aunts and great uncles would take their turn in the delivery room. After that, they'd be at the nursery window at every viewing waving to their baby. The nurses were amazed at how many used to visit.

I'm thinking maybe with all the single mother's having babies, they'd prefer to have their parents with them while giving birth, especially if the father is AWOL. :waitasec: I dunno.

Just for the record, I don't believe her claims of GA abusing her. If he did, and Lee, too, that's no reason to kill her child, so I think Sex abuse claims are irrelevant in the murder trial. Didn't River Cruz say she and GA just talked, nothing really physical? I'm thinking GA was never quite.....virile. :blushing:

Ya know aftet rehearing bits and pieces of it yesterday on HLN--the ending of the OS--jb said basically to free her so she can go home...we all know where home is.....WHY would one go home to that? :banghead:

 

[Jomo]

NO

not for one second do I believe this.

KC's revenge is not just on her mom for all of their issues but I think she actually really hates her dad for a different reason.

I think that this is just her way of getting back at her dad for him not treating her like his "little princess" anymore, because he had a new "little princess" in Caylee.

Her anger in the courtroom after Cindy testified is proof that she really can't handle betrayal... and there will be hell to pay for it.

JMHO

 

[TallyHo]

NO

not for one second do I believe this.

KC's revenge is not just on her mom for all of their issues but I think she actually really hates her dad for a different reason.

I think that this is just her way of getting back at her dad for him not treating her like his "little princess" anymore, because he had a new "little princess" in Caylee.

Her anger in the courtroom after Cindy testified is proof that she really can't handle betrayal... and there will be hell to pay for it.

JMHO

I agree - and I think there's another possible reason she hates her dad, and it has to do simply with the fact that he was around the house to make her "lifestyle" difficult. If I remember correctly, he and Cindy were separated for a period of time after Caylee was born, and he was living elsewhere for a while. I am sure it was a heck of a lot easier on Casey making up her stories without someone else in the house to see what was really going on. Once he came back she had to actually put on work clothes and leave the house with Caylee and figure out what to do with themselves. My guess is that she was resentful of him for that reason. :twocents:

 

[Tuffy]

Do I believe it is possible that GA sexually abused KC? Yes, it is always possible. Do I believe it is possible that LA sexually abused KC? Yes, it is always possible. Yes I believe that KC could possibly show some signs of sexual abuse. But unless I hear that KC told someone reputable before her arrest (teacher, counselor etc.) I won't believe that it is anything more than a story she is telling to gain sympathy and promote her defense.

But I also believe that any possible sexual abuse is irrelevant in the trial. She chose to remain living at home even though she was of age and capable of working and earning a living. She chose to leave Caylee alone with GA at times. So if she was abused as she is now saying, the result leads to she chose to endanger Caylee.

Most important I don't believe that even if they establish that someone did abuse her that it should have any bearing on the trial. Kids get abused by their parents every day. But they grow up make their own choices, and they may choose to abuse their own kids or they may choose to protect them. But they don't usually kill them, unless it is to protect themselves from getting caught at something.

Do I believe that she was afraid of her parents would be an important and more relevant question. And no I don't believe she was afraid of her parents. The stories we've heard about their relationship, the videos we've seen leads me to believe she not only wasn't afraid of them, she was able to manipulate them quite well to get what she wanted.

I agree 100% with your post. I think you expressed my opinion much better than I! :rocker:

 

[Tuffy]

Remember when we weren't even allowed to talk about this subject on WS?

Remember when we used to wonder if JB & company followed WS opinion?

Remember when Leonard Padilla said (on NG!) that we'd be "shocked" when we found out the truth about the father of Caylee? Some WSers were certain he was referring to LA at the time... I know I was wondering when we'd understand where the heck LP's comments came from ... and now we do ...

Well, I'm trying to remember ... but I think LP was getting his info from at the time ... IIRC he was working for JB while protecting Miss Casey.

:waitasec:

Anyway ... pretty sure this "sexually-molested Casey defense" has been the defense plan since early game on...

DNA evidence eliminated family members as Caylee's father ... but the plan never changed.

Interesting that Casey told Tony that GA abused her, and Tony never interpreted it to mean sexual abuse. Even though the "Lee tried to feel me up" was also one of the family secrets...

I think it's weird that Casey told Tony anything, frankly. Do we know when Casey disclosed this? Before or after Caylee disappeared? Was she simply laying a foundation for not being able to go back home and "needing" to be rescued from her family by Tony?

Anyone have any insight as to why she'd share these "secrets"?

I don't have time to write a post for each thread. I'm finding so much of the trial to be repetitive (what we already know) - yet at the same time, there's daily nuggets of "oh yeah - now that makes more sense".

*sigh*

Go Team Caylee! The more you shine the light, the sadder Caylee's story is. Casey is one hell of a mess. And to the point of this thread, one has to wonder ... what the hell happened in her life that fractured her brain and cut out her heart?

Was she just "Born this Way?" (apologies to LGaga)

sheesh.

Capital D ysfunctional Family. 4 sho'.

I think you're right about LP. I think that he was working with the defense team all along. I think that's where he got all his "facts" that he was spewing. It was Jose's way of getting things out there without the info coming from them.

 

[1Chump]

WHY did GA call the police with a stolen gas can report?

WHY did CA tell her co-workers on the 17th of June, that someone was swimming in her pool and left the ladder up?

Are these two questions the jury will be asking to create a reasonable doubt/

Perhaps that is why they were presented in court by the Defense.

But, does anyone have their own independent answer as to WHY for both of these questions?

I'd like to hear it.

I thought GA, as a former cop, reporting the stolen gas cans was strange. Cops hate paperwork for stupid things. I can just see the Officer who had to write out the police report for the stolen gas cans thinking "Seriously, you are an ex-cop and you are reporting two gas cans stolen."

However, I thought it was even more strange that AFTER reporting the stolen gas cans, he NEVER reported that they were recoverd.

 

[1Chump]

Interesting that Casey told Tony that GA abused her, and Tony never interpreted it to mean sexual abuse. Even though the "Lee tried to feel me up" was also one of the family secrets...

I think it's weird that Casey told Tony anything, frankly. Do we know when Casey disclosed this? Before or after Caylee disappeared? Was she simply laying a foundation for not being able to go back home and "needing" to be rescued from her family by Tony?

Anyone have any insight as to why she'd share these "secrets"?

Tony testified that Casey talked about it prior to Caylee being missing. Tony also said that when Casey talked about Lee attempting to grope her, he was shocked. Then Casey said he was not successful. Tony testified he changed the subject to distract her.

IMO, from experience, I would attempt to feel people out to see if they were willing to listen or shut me down. My family life looked so great that I had a hard time getting anyone to believe I had any problems. As soon as I heard "you have a great life" I shut down. They either were not going to believe me or would not listen so I didn't tell.

So when Tony said he was "shocked" then Casey said nothing happened. I thought of course, you were shocked, she did not feel safe to share her secrets.

I am not saying making an opinion on if Casey was telling the truth or not just that Tony's reaction would stop most abuse victims from sharing the abuse.

 

[Leomoon80]

Tony testified that Casey talked about it prior to Caylee being missing. Tony also said that when Casey talked about Lee attempting to grope her, he was shocked. Then Casey said he was not successful. Tony testified he changed the subject to distract her.

IMO, from experience, I would attempt to feel people out to see if they were willing to listen or shut me down. My family life looked so great that I had a hard time getting anyone to believe I had any problems. As soon as I heard "you have a great life" I shut down. They either were not going to believe me or would not listen so I didn't tell.

So when Tony said he was "shocked" then Casey said nothing happened. I thought of course, you were shocked, she did not feel safe to share her secrets.

I am not saying making an opinion on if Casey was telling the truth or not just that Tony's reaction would stop most abuse victims from sharing the abuse.

Same thing happened to me......as soon as I told, I was met with "disbelief" and I was then 19 or 20, and newly engaged. I still married him, (disbelief and all), yet could not or would not consummate that union, and we divorced within months.

It's very common for one to "shut down" when met with disbelief from others they reach out to share with.

I never opened up again for 18 years, and then, it was due to a mini-breakdown from the PTS>

 

[Starfish]

I don't believe it, although I do think its really strange & creepy how he calls her beautiful & gorgeous in all the jailhouse tapes. The fact that they would use that as an excuse for not telling what happened is absolutely ridiculous! And why would GA want to cover up the fact that a terrible accident happened? The DT hinted that it was to keep the sex abuse secret......so, are they saying that as ICA sat there holding her dead baby she told GA that she was telling the dirty secret because of the accident???? Does not make a bit of sense.....none of it. Just when I think ICA couldn't get any more evil she proves me wrong.....everytime!

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I don't believe it at all. I feel sorry for George. He's being thrown under the bus and I don't think he did anything but try to be a good dad.

 

[Emma Peel]

Tony testified that Casey talked about it prior to Caylee being missing. Tony also said that when Casey talked about Lee attempting to grope her, he was shocked. Then Casey said he was not successful. Tony testified he changed the subject to distract her.

IMO, from experience, I would attempt to feel people out to see if they were willing to listen or shut me down. My family life looked so great that I had a hard time getting anyone to believe I had any problems. As soon as I heard "you have a great life" I shut down. They either were not going to believe me or would not listen so I didn't tell.

So when Tony said he was "shocked" then Casey said nothing happened. I thought of course, you were shocked, she did not feel safe to share her secrets.

I am not saying making an opinion on if Casey was telling the truth or not just that Tony's reaction would stop most abuse victims from sharing the abuse.

Yes, I would think this is why JB thought it would be fine if Tony's testimony regarding the "secrets" heard from Casey was one of general "abuse" and not all the "sexual molestation details".

And it was before Caylee was missing ... yes ...

But I also think Casey may have began "disclosing secrets" in order to test the waters and/or lay the groundwork for another plan regarding Tony ... seeing if he'd be willing to "rescue" her and Caylee ... from their awful home life ... let them move together - to a new apt. - permanently ... so she didn't have to go back to Hopespring ...

IIRC, Casey was playing several variations on "getting away from her family getting independent". One variation with Tony & a new apartment for the 3 of them ... and another variation with Amy involving Hopespring...

It seemed at the time the girl was just playing all ends to the middle there...desperate to separate from her parents.

:cow:

 

[zadari]

was abused by someone close to me for years .. its started when i was thirteen .. i didn't tell anyone either .. NO one knew ..except for one friend who did nothing because they were afraid of that person too .. however out of that i learned it wasnt MY fault it never was nor will be .and i didn't see a therapist for it for a long time and when i did they already told me what i knew .. they helped to a point but the key is never blame yourself its hard as hell not to .. you question your decisions and you question why did this person do that to me what did i do .. then you think um i didn't DO anything wrong .. NO i didn't THEY did it .. but you don't change who you are and you don't kill your children .. i guess im leaning more that she wasn't .. with her personality nah .. you don't become self absorbed like that unless you have been spoiled rotten all your life . nah she was their baby their center of attention for YEARS then along came caylee .. who took her place .though everyone is different on how they handle their experiences and i do understand that .. but my gut is telling me she wasn't u guys im sorry but i just don't believe it .. my abuse went on for over 5 years ..and i told no one but one person .. they didn't tell anyone so god i know what its like to keep stuff inside .i know what its like to live that way and i did none of the crap iCa did .. her behavior is NOT that of an abuse victim im telling you its not .. its of a spoiled rotten sociopath.. who has controlled her parents from day one of her life .. because SHE was the baby and couldn't accept the fact she WASN'T anymore ..and caylee was in her way she blames her MOM because cindy didn't give in and let her put caylee up for adoption like she wanted to .. i read somewhere she had wanted to but no i don't remember where .. i also know what its like to be made to have to be a mom when u don't want to be one .. my son.. i wasn't a bit ready to have him nor did i want to UNTIL i felt him in my arms and heard his first cry .. then i fell in love .. but i got my days where i wanted to be free but no way would i have killed him in fact with him and kiera i had that crap where you wanna kill yourself and your kids right after they were born .. i called my dr when i had the weird thoughts and got help.. i didn't do anything wrong..i love
my son and daughter too much for that and my son was really one very difficult child ... he had problems that i didn't want to deal with .. ill be honest but i dealt with them because it wasn't HIS fault i had him .. i was the one who got pregnant .. you don't blame the baby .. sorry guys i needed to vent about it this now i feel much better and and going to go have a smoke and some coffee thank you for reading and listening lol..

 

[maryaok]

I absolutely don't believe it, not for a minute, and the thing that really solidified it to me is something that Cindy said the other day, that after all this happened, Casey wanted to sleep in with Cindy and George, that she had been sleeping in their room for the comfort of having her parents. Give me a break! It's a no brainer. No person who was molested wants to sleep in the same room with the molester for comfort. Come on. She'd be sickened by the thought.