Does Pam Paugh Know Anything About JB's Murder?

[Agatha_C]

I see that Murri's gone MIA. Maybe this will get her to talk.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the idea that Pam knowingly contributed to any cover-up. But if I did, I could understand it.

IDI would have us believe that the Ramseys loved JB too much to ever kill her. But they ALSO expect us to believe that same love does not extend between Patsy and Pam, and that Pam would just throw her own sister to the dogs. If there's one thing I know for sure, it's that you don't just turn your back on the person who came from the same womb you did, especially in a situation like this, when that person has already been through so much.

So, assuming that Patsy did it, and that Pam was in on it, then I would agree that she was most likely horrified at JB's death. But are we to believe that Pam would then COMPOUND that horror by sending her own sister to prison for life, or possibly to Death Row?

Dave,

Im not Murri, but its a long night and I have some thoughts on this.....

The first being that Pam was as fixated with Patsy as Patsy was with Jonbenet. As much as mother lived through daughter, sister lived through sister. My opinion anyway....

If the theories are right and the Paugh sisters had been abused themselves, they very well might protect each other too the death. It would be a natural reaction for any sibling, especially those that have already survived a nightmare.

I also think, if Pam thought she was protecting BR and its possible thats what her sister wanted her to think and maybe even told her, she would have done anything. I mean really, I think PR owned PP and knew just how to manipulate her.

Just some thoughts and always my own opinion...

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Didn't Pam do an interview where she said that she knew who killed JonBenet? I can't remember if it was right after Patsy died or when the JMK fiasco was going on, but I do recall some media person being like, "Do you know who killed JBR?" and she was like, "Yes, I know who killed her," It was strange.

 

[Agatha_C]

Didn't Pam do an interview where she said that she knew who killed JonBenet? I can't remember if it was right after Patsy died or when the JMK fiasco was going on, but I do recall some media person being like, "Do you know who killed JBR?" and she was like, "Yes, I know who killed her," It was strange.

I remember that... She said it was someone who knew the family or was close to the family...

 

[DeeDee249]

I remember that... She said it was someone who knew the family or was close to the family...

And doesn't that just say it ALL?

Think about it....your sweet 6-year old niece is found murdered in her own home, strangled, evidence of sexual abuse, and an egg-size HOLE in her skull. You say you KNOW who killed her and yet you will not come forward with this information? BS.

Here is a list of the reasons WHY you wouldn't SAY WHO IT WAS:

1. It was your own sister, brother-in-law, nephew, father or (as she said) someone close to the family.

2. Whoever it was cannot be prosecuted, either because they are already dead or not prosecutable for another reason (they were underage at the time).

3. You really don't know.

You'd NEVER keep the name a secret to cover for someone who merely "knew the family", was "close to the family" or a stranger. What you really mean is that the killer WAS someone in the family.

So....IF you know and won't say, that pretty much says that it WAS your sister/brother-in-law/nephew/father or other close relative. There is simply no other reason to refrain from telling publicly what you know.

What I am wondering is why she would even make that statement. It points so blatantly to someone in the family. She is possibly alluding to Patsy having told her who it was, and that pretty much leaves the same short list. If they know WHO (i.e. have a NAME- it HAS to be someone they know or one of them.

 

[madeleine]

I don't think PR's family knows anything,they all have a big mouth,would have been too risky to fill them in,they love to talk.
and it was JR's family that needed lawyers to prevent them from talking.why the heck did Lucinda need one for,but it's understandable,I can imagine what kind of questions the cops might have had for her.I'd be afraid too if I were JR.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't think PR's family knows anything,they all have a big mouth,would have been too risky to fill them in,they love to talk.
and it was JR's family that needed lawyers to prevent them from talking.why the heck did Lucinda need one for,but it's understandable,I can imagine what kind of questions the cops might have had for her.I'd be afraid too if I were JR.

I don't know if he was worried about what his ex said his former family life that much. But I think he was trying to prevent her from being questioned about where his older son was Christmas Day, specifically about being asked to provide photographic proof he was there with her in Georgia that day. But there may have been concerns about their daughter's death in a car accident and that daughter's previous medical/emotional issues (not that I am aware of any, but there may be concerns that he would have had).

 

[Maikai]

Pam Paugh does not know who killed JBR. She had a person of interest she was curious about---a man that approached her at a cosmetic counter she was working, who was asking questions about the family. She was in Atlanta at the time.

 

[Agatha_C]

Pam Paugh does not know who killed JBR. She had a person of interest she was curious about---a man that approached her at a cosmetic counter she was working, who was asking questions about the family. She was in Atlanta at the time.

Question here, just how much research have you done on this case? Not being snide, just curious to know what you are basing all of your opinions on. P. Paugh, has not always been an accurate source for information...

She said things were missing from the house and both R's said there was nothing missing.

She said that there had been a little secret note in the pouch of the Snta bear in Jonbenet's room. This was also not true....

1998 October 19 - Pam Paugh (Patsy Ramsey's sister) on Larry King Live Show

Pam Paugh: "But I know that on the 28th when I had to enter the home to get some personal belongings, some clothing, and obviously, some things appropriate for JonBenet's burial, I knew then that the police had made up their mind that Patsy and John had done this hideous thing." http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm

She literally removed a car load of stuff, and the majority of it was not clothing. In fact Patsy wore nothing from the house, a local store sent over clothing for her and she picked something from that. You really should read the documented truth on P Paughs house raid.

P Paugh, may no nothing at all, but her repeated lies say otherwise. Perhaps you should visit Acandyrose and do some research....

Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
Bernard Baruch

or........

While everyone has a right to his or her opinion, the people who are informed have more of a right.
Bill Dixon

 

[JMO8778]

I beleive PP also said she and her sister saw a 'strange man' at the cemetary near JB's gravesite,but neither saw fit to bother reporting him at the time.
Just another one of her stories.

 

[Maikai]

Question here, just how much research have you done on this case? Not being snide, just curious to know what you are basing all of your opinions on. P. Paugh, has not always been an accurate source for information...

She said things were missing from the house and both R's said there was nothing missing.

She said that there had been a little secret note in the pouch of the Snta bear in Jonbenet's room. This was also not true....

1998 October 19 - Pam Paugh (Patsy Ramsey's sister) on Larry King Live Show

Pam Paugh: "But I know that on the 28th when I had to enter the home to get some personal belongings, some clothing, and obviously, some things appropriate for JonBenet's burial, I knew then that the police had made up their mind that Patsy and John had done this hideous thing." http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm

She literally removed a car load of stuff, and the majority of it was not clothing. In fact Patsy wore nothing from the house, a local store sent over clothing for her and she picked something from that. You really should read the documented truth on P Paughs house raid.

P Paugh, may no nothing at all, but her repeated lies say otherwise. Perhaps you should visit Acandyrose and do some research....

Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
Bernard Baruch

or........

While everyone has a right to his or her opinion, the people who are informed have more of a right.
Bill Dixon

I've done a fair amount of research....for many years. Pam herself said on another forum what I quoted....it was either in a chat or a Q&A session on the forum. I've never known her to lie. I tend not to limit myself to BORG sites, although ACandyrose is an amazing site with a lot of history memoralized. Pam took things the Ramseys would need, as they didn't intend to go back to the house. She didn't raid the house. I recall charge cards, and the medal JBR recently won. I don't believe for a minute someone from the BPD wasn't watching her, and didn't look at what she took. At that point in time the Ramseys were alread suspects. Unless the the BPD is as dumb as some people think, I think they were taking note of what she was removing, and I think they drove her back to where she was staying.

I don't know where the note in the pouch of the teddy bear came from, but I think it was explained....or didn't exist at all.

I do recall from the chat or questions something about missing items but she couldn't comment. I asked about the Santa suit, and at first she said the Ramseys didn't have one, but she corrected that a day or two later and said they did have one. If something was missing or not, who knows? There was a lot of chaos going on. Nothing has ever come out about anything they knew for sure was taken.

 

[Agatha_C]

I've done a fair amount of research....for many years. Pam herself said on another forum what I quoted....it was either in a chat or a Q&A session on the forum. I've never known her to lie. I tend not to limit myself to BORG sites, although ACandyrose is an amazing site with a lot of history memoralized. Pam took things the Ramseys would need, as they didn't intend to go back to the house. She didn't raid the house. I recall charge cards, and the medal JBR recently won. I don't believe for a minute someone from the BPD wasn't watching her, and didn't look at what she took. At that point in time the Ramseys were alread suspects. Unless the the BPD is as dumb as some people think, I think they were taking note of what she was removing, and I think they drove her back to where she was staying.

I don't know where the note in the pouch of the teddy bear came from, but I think it was explained....or didn't exist at all.

I do recall from the chat or questions something about missing items but she couldn't comment. I asked about the Santa suit, and at first she said the Ramseys didn't have one, but she corrected that a day or two later and said they did have one. If something was missing or not, who knows? There was a lot of chaos going on. Nothing has ever come out about anything they knew for sure was taken.

(My Bold)

Maikai,

Do you know P. Paugh personally to be able to vouch for her or make comments like the one in bold? Also a link to this other forum or the Q&A would be appreciated?

Maikai, if you dont know PP, then how can you be sure it was really PP giving the As to the Qs?

Did anyone ask her why she waited so long to set the record straight or did it work better for the family if the lies confused the situation?

 

[Maikai]

(My Bold)

Maikai,

Do you know P. Paugh personally to be able to vouch for her or make comments like the one in bold? Also a link to this other forum or the Q&A would be appreciated?

Maikai, if you dont know PP, then how can you be sure it was really PP giving the As to the Qs?

Did anyone ask her why she waited so long to set the record straight or did it work better for the family if the lies confused the situation?

The other forum isn't appreciated here, and it's since been closed....you can google jameson245 and I think you'll find a lot of the old posts as those are still up. I was a member here when Murphy ran it way back when....and jameson I believe was a moderator. She started her own forum--may have been kicked out of here or it was a mutual decision. Jameson knew PP and she also knew the Ramseys---long story there. I went to hers, because the bent of the forum was not Ramsey guilt--but stayed around here once in a while---I tend not to be confrontational---afterall, if the Ramsys did it or not, doesn't affect our lives. Pam answered questions on threads, and she would be in chat once in a while---and there were conversations on other things. Jameson managed to be involved with quite a few people on the case. I don't think Pam deliberately lied about anything....possibly misinformation...but she didn't have a clue who did it--like any of us, she had a person of interest she was curious about.

 

[Maikai]

Here's the link: http://www.jameson245.com/ There's a lot not on there.....but when you get to the page, click on one of the www's.

 

[Toltec]

Question here, just how much research have you done on this case? Not being snide, just curious to know what you are basing all of your opinions on. P. Paugh, has not always been an accurate source for information...

Agatha...Makai is not a newbie, she's been on this case for years. She mostly posts on Jameson's forum. She believes in the intruder theory which is her right.

I did have one question Makai...have you met Pam Paugh?

 

[Maikai]

Agatha...Makai is not a newbie, she's been on this case for years. She mostly posts on Jameson's forum. She believes in the intruder theory which is her right.

I did have one question Makai...have you met Pam Paugh?

You know Jameson closed her forum...it's been a while now. She said if there was ever a break in the case she would reopen it. One of the first forums I remember was a Crime forum that Misty ran. Come to think of it, there are many posters that have dropped off..Gsquared, Lovely Pigeon, Masked Man.......from the start though, there were the RDI's and IDI.

No, I never met Pam Paugh...only through chat and the conversations were light and other topics having nothing to do with the murder. I did meet the housekeeper from Charlevoix. She posted for a while. My dad and I were going to be passing through Charlevoix and we made arrangements for coffee. We didn't talk much about the case...but she was fiercely loyal to the Ramseys---I wouldn't have wanted to mess with her. When I called her to tell her we were getting close she was at a skating rink meeting with Patsy. I would have liked to have met Patsy, but didn't have the guts to ask--figured she'd put up with enough internet whackos.

 

[Agatha_C]

The other forum isn't appreciated here, and it's since been closed....you can google jameson245 and I think you'll find a lot of the old posts as those are still up. I was a member here when Murphy ran it way back when....and jameson I believe was a moderator. She started her own forum--may have been kicked out of here or it was a mutual decision. Jameson knew PP and she also knew the Ramseys---long story there. I went to hers, because the bent of the forum was not Ramsey guilt--but stayed around here once in a while---I tend not to be confrontational---afterall, if the Ramsys did it or not, doesn't affect our lives. Pam answered questions on threads, and she would be in chat once in a while---and there were conversations on other things. Jameson managed to be involved with quite a few people on the case. I don't think Pam deliberately lied about anything....possibly misinformation...but she didn't have a clue who did it--like any of us, she had a person of interest she was curious about.

Thank you Maikai, I am easily read wrong and wish to thank you for the grace in which you handle friendly debate. Though, I do not share your theories, I do respect your right to have one. If I offended you Im truly sorry, I meant no disrespect....

 

[Agatha_C]

Agatha...Makai is not a newbie, she's been on this case for years. She mostly posts on Jameson's forum. She believes in the intruder theory which is her right.

I did have one question Makai...have you met Pam Paugh?

Im under the weather Toltec and truly did not mean to sound so abrasive, but thank you for calling me on it as I hadnt realized how my post was translating...

 

[Agatha_C]

Maikai if P Paugh has never lied to your knowledge then please help me to under stand the following transcripts from "Inside Edition"


Transcript of Inside Edition, Deborah Norville with Pam Paugh:

DN: With us now from Atlanta is Pam Paugh who is JonBenét's aunt. Miss Paugh, why do you think this Santa Claus bear is important?

PP: Well Deborah, I think it's very telling because it's one of the numerous things that were left behind, in the home, after the crime.

DN: What do you mean? How long have you known about this bear?

PP: I've known for quite a while. We were asked not to divulge any information because it could potentially harm the ongoing investigation.

DN: When you say "left behind", what's your theory about this particular bear?

PP: Well, obviously someone put it there. Now, if it was given to JonBenét prior to Christmas, perhaps as a present or whatever, I do not know the details of that. I do know that Patsy, John, Burke, myself, other members of the family, other people who were in the home, they have never seen the bear and do not know how it would have gotten into JonBenét's possession.

DN: Now this bear was found in JonBenét's bedroom. Thomas McKenna, a former New York City homicide detective is also with us. Detective McKenna, what's your theory about this bear and its existance in the home?

TM: It certainly is not a calling card because the person responsible for this LEFT a departing message, that being the ransom note. So if he's trying to bring attention to himself as a "serial killer" or "child molestor" it doesn't fit.

DN: Well, if it doesn't fit that theory then what theory would you, as an experienced investigator provide?

TM: I can't give you a theory of why somebody might bring toys to a child other than maybe to lure them out of where they are with the promise of other toys. But if that is the case, then if the child already was taken from her room, passed through the ground floor, which was where they would leave the house, they would get out of the house. Nobody's going to take a child and have access to getting out of the house and yet take the child downstairs, torture the child and then kill the child. It doesn't make sense.

DN: Miss Paugh, you mentioned this was one of several things left behind. What else has been located in the home?

PP: The incredible thing that we discovered is that there was something very telling left in the pouch and....

DN:....which you will not be able to disclose, is that correct?

PP: I can tell you that it was a message.

DN: A written message? Verbal message?

PP: Wouldn't be verbal, it was not on tape. There was a message to JonBenét left in the pouch.

DN: What did the message say?

PP: I can't fully disclose that at this time.

DN: Was it a threatening message?

PP: It would seem as mere verbage would go - no. But in the light that she was murdered, brutally so. I believe it was the killer's full intent to do that regardless of what was said in the ransom...

DN: Was it a written message? When I say a written message, was it something written down, in handwriting, on a piece of paper?

PP: I can't disclose that either.

DN: Was it something that would relate to her beauty pageant activities?

PP: Absolutely not.

DN: Was there any sexual content to the message?

PP: Absolutely not.
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-pam-paugh.htm


Auntie P, wasnt exactly telling the truth here. This in my own opinion, is a lie and a great big fat one at that (not a pun on her weight or rude jibe at you.....

 

[CanManEh]

Hey Iam new to this question but I wonder If the note If Infact true were written and If so was It written on the same paper as the ransom note. Also was It ever tested to see If It was the same Handwriting as the ransome note...

Does anyone remember someone and I believe It was a sister or a relative that did a call in radio talk show about this case and possibley her Involvment..I just don't know If It was this lady or not . But I do remember it getting very Heated The discussion . Does anyone remember this ???

 

[Maikai]

"Maikai if P Paugh has never lied to your knowledge then please help me to under stand the following transcripts from "Inside Edition"

Agatha, not knowing something and a deliberate lie are two different things. The Santa Claus took on sinister tones, because the Ramseys did not remember where it came from. There was a big hullabaloo about it, and the BPD posted it on I believe a police department's website in Michigan. Finally a woman came forward and I believe she said they were given out at the last pageant JBR was in. The note in the pocket....and I don't know what it said, was probably something innocent. The santa claus was eventually dropped.