Does Skyline school bear any responsibility?

[cluciano63]

At least, thank God, the school immediately acknowledged their responsbility, and put new procedures in place to start better protecting all the children there.

I don't recall reading anywhere that they have acknowledged any responsibility...just that they are implementing new policies. Did they take responsibility?

 

[Jules71]

Just thinking thru some things...

My son's school has all doors locked from the outside except the main doors which pass by the office. Visitors must come in thru the main doors (unless someone holds one of the other locked doors open for them as they are exiting). Visitors are supposed to sign in. 'Supposed to' and 'do' are two different things. To my knowledge there is nothing in place to force compliance. Any one can leave thru any of the doors, at any time, even possibly without being noticed. To have the doors locked from the inside would be a fire code violation. All of these procedures are fine and dandy, but to me - the issue at Skyline is this: His teacher saw him in the morning for the science fair - but he never reported to class when class started. He was marked absent.* A call should have gone home saying your student is absent. Skyline did not have that procedure in place. Any other day, any other kid could have left the building after being dropped off for school and not reported to class and they would have been marked absent, and a call would not have gone home. I thank GOD my son's school calls when he is not in class. They called one time and I had just taken him to school and I about FLIPPED OUT. The secretary put me on hold and called the teacher in the classroom and confirmed he was in class and that he came in a minute late, which is why he was marked absent. (I still felt like going there to see for myself that he was sitting in class!)

*The difference in this situation is that Kyron was there and then he was gone! The ONLY way I see that the teacher would not be concerned that a child was there and then gone - is if she was told by the parent that the child was leaving with the parent for whatever reason. Otherwise, serious red flags and the school is totally accountable. I really do believe Terri must have told the teacher Kyron was going with her. I really hope this teacher's testimony at the GJ will tell them what they need to know. If TMH is responsible, I have no doubt she purposely caused confusion regarding the dr. appt. so she could execute her plan.

 

[BeanE]

I don't recall reading anywhere that they have acknowledged any responsibility...just that they are implementing new policies. Did they take responsibility?

I meant that in the sense that if they didn't think something was wrong, they wouldn't have implemented those new policies. They wouldn't have been necessary. I don't recall exactly what the school said about it. I'd have to look it up.

ETA: I found one of the school's statements:

http://www.kptv.com/education/23812571/detail.html

 

[mydailyopinions]

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. School budgets for actual teaching are cut and cut and cut. Stranger abductions from inside a school rarely happen. And yes, I believe there is some risk/benefit analysis that has to go into these decisions. And I have children in elementary school. I don't worry about them being abducted. If it happens, it will be a fluke and the fault of the perp. Not of me or the school. And I don't want the budget for my kids' actual education cut anymore so that video cameras can be installed to prevent the remote possibility that one of them will be abducted by a stranger from inside the school. Needless to say, I'm not a worrier jmoo

Just the simple thought of IF
If cameras were in that school that morning, we would know who Kyron left with. If he walked out with Terri, maybe someone would have called to find out why....
IF only there were cameras.

In this day and time there are no excuses for cameras not being in schools. I understand budget cuts, I truly do...but what could be the harm of taking just enough out of a budget to put one camera into a school? I am truly sure that I could come up with tons of unnecessary papers that come home with my children (cutting paper costs) matter of fact, with 686 seniors coming into the graduating class of 2011, I am almost sure that the paperwork I'll have to fill out only to "save time" for an administrator since they put it all into the computer and then shred it, would purchase at least one camera for the entrance to the school.

 

[Jules71]

Can someone answer me if Kyron's school was open? Students could just wander off? There isn't a door in which all students go into?

I don't think it was "open" as in the non-main doors were unlocked from the outside - but anyone inside the school could leave from any door. They can't be locked - major fire hazard.

I wonder if the teacher didn't feel 'responsibility' for Kyron because he was never technically in attendance at the start of class. IOW, he was there for the science fair with his step mom, but never reported to class so she thought they left together. If Kyron had come to class, sat down, been accounted for during roll call and then at some other point, disappeared - then I would hope the teacher would have made a huge issue of him not being there. I also think if she would have seen Kyron that morning and not with his SM, and then he didn't report to class - that would have set off red flags. She must have seen him with her and like has been speculated - assumed she took him with her when she left. Then as she thought about it, she remembered TMH saying something about an appt.

Crazy.

 

[cluciano63]

Thanks Bean, for finding that statement, but they are very careful not to take any responsibility, as far as I can tell...yes, they are implementing many things, but never say that those things should have been in place all along, etc...it is a cautious statement dictated by lawyers...

 

[wondering1]

Just the simple thought of IF
If cameras were in that school that morning, we would know who Kyron left with. If he walked out with Terri, maybe someone would have called to find out why....
IF only there were cameras.

In this day and time there are no excuses for cameras not being in schools. I understand budget cuts, I truly do...but what could be the harm of taking just enough out of a budget to put one camera into a school? I am truly sure that I could come up with tons of unnecessary papers that come home with my children (cutting paper costs) matter of fact, with 686 seniors coming into the graduating class of 2011, I am almost sure that the paperwork I'll have to fill out only to "save time" for an administrator since they put it all into the computer and then shred it, would purchase at least one camera for the entrance to the school.

No one is sitting there monitoring the video cameras. If the vid showed th left with him, she still would have had several hours or more to do whatever she intended to do. As would any other perp. So it might be useful for identifying a perp, but not necessarily for saving the one in a million child who goes missing from INSIDE a school. jmoo.

eta: ita about the PAPERWORK. My kids' school recently mandated that only the oldest child gets all the fliers, and it's STILL too much.

 

[Jules71]

Just the simple thought of IF
If cameras were in that school that morning, we would know who Kyron left with. If he walked out with Terri, maybe someone would have called to find out why....
IF only there were cameras.

In this day and time there are no excuses for cameras not being in schools. I understand budget cuts, I truly do...but what could be the harm of taking just enough out of a budget to put one camera into a school? I am truly sure that I could come up with tons of unnecessary papers that come home with my children (cutting paper costs) matter of fact, with 686 seniors coming into the graduating class of 2011, I am almost sure that the paperwork I'll have to fill out only to "save time" for an administrator since they put it all into the computer and then shred it, would purchase at least one camera for the entrance to the school.

I would like cameras on all doors in my son's school, but unfortunately I don't think that will ever happen. Each classroom has a door to the outside, plus many others throughout the school. I guess maybe they wouldn't really need them on the classroom doors because if someone tried to leave thru that door the teacher would see it. But then again - think of a situation like Kyron's where everyone is touring the school, someone could grab a kid and exit through an empty classroom and out the door.

 

[cluciano63]

If they had cameras, they may not have been able to prevent whatever has happened to Kyron, but LE would (probably) have a good source of evidence as to who he left with.

Cameras aren't really preventative, but they are useful, when they are a part of a security system, not the entire system.

 

[cypress]

I have been saying all along, wait and see, as far as whether the school is partly responsible, until we know more about the so-called appointment. But I think it is fair to say that this little school considered itself to be a little country haven of sorts, for the kids, and that perhaps the parents liked the fact that it was less militarized than larger schools as far as rules, sign-ins, etc...whether right or wrong. I think if the parents objected to the way the school was run, it would have been an issue before this happened and we have not heard that it was "an accident waiting to happen" from any of the parents, to my knowledge.

Still, I think it TP did in fact ask where Kyron was, and received the answer he said he did, then yes, something clearly was not working in this school as a child of seven should not be permitted free-range wanderings to bathrooms, etc. without asking permission. I understand that a child could slip away for a moment from a busy teacher, but not the lack of concern in the the response we have heard, per TP.

Institutions are blamed all the time for things that happen within their premises; I for one am against the law suit craze, but finding some fault with the school, if the above is true, would be far less ridiculous than many other suits that have been won in the courts.

BBM

ITA. Our overly litigious society bothers me. However, I am a stickler for personal responsibility and responsibility in general.

If the school bears some responsibility, then the reasons why should be determined so that the necessary steps can be taken to prevent this from happening to another child.

 

[craftybatchy]

From a statistical perspective, the circumstances leading up to the disappearance of this child, were in fact a perfect storm. If one can look at the situation in its entirety (rather than the culpability of individuals), disaster was brewing. In this case the disaster manifested itself in the disappearance of Kyron.

 

[BeanE]

Thanks Bean, for finding that statement, but they are very careful not to take any responsibility, as far as I can tell...yes, they are implementing many things, but never say that those things should have been in place all along, etc...it is a cautious statement dictated by lawyers...

IMO, they need better lawyers. They don't need to say "This is our fault!". In a courtroom, it will be their actions - as documented by statements like this - that exemplify their culpability (or lack thereof if it didn't exist or if they did have better attorneys ).

Because they published this statement, they will be unable to claim that they thought Kyron left with Terri because of a medical appointment, and that that is the reason they implemented these steps. They are implementing steps that would not help with any confusion or misunderstanding in that instance.

And should Terri be charged, and the DA brings in school officials to say they thought Terri was taking Kyron for an appointment, Houze will have a twinkle in his eye as he whips out this statement.

I'm glad this thread was started, because it's been a long time since I read what the school said and did. Clearly, they were not confident about that appointment.

And to think, a simple, cheap piece of paper and a pencil, for a sign out procedure, would have done so much here. Poor Kyron.

 

[Susan10]

I say no.

snip
The responsibility should be shouldered by the person who did this, whether it's TH or a predator, and not the school. I see the school as a victim in all of this. snip quote]

ITA with you, Aedrys. I'm certain changes have taken place there, even expensive ones. You give that it might have been a stranger. You are open to other explinations more than I am.

I believe it was TH. She knew the school, the teachers, the hours, and the layout. She threw out a red herring about the Dr's appt, which, as far as I know, has never been confirmed for that day, the next day, or the next week (when school was not even going to be in session).

There may have been strangers there that day, but who were they? None have come out in the press as being there. No teachers or employees have mentioned strangers being there as far as I know. IMO, a stranger would have stood out in such a small community of people. Regular and known faces would have just been the norm, nothing to be alarmed about or anyone to watch or pay special attention to.

imho moo

 

[human]

As a teacher, this has been a wake up call to me.

I teach in a district with really really old schools with MULTIPLE doors. Most are locked once school starts, but of course, anyone can walk out of the doors.

We got a new superintendent about 5 years ago who cleverly got it so we can have most of our old schools closed and new ones built. I was mainly concerned about the hundred year old junk in the heating ducts and the toxics everywhere in the schools such as the mold in the leaky ceilings.

Our superintendent has had schools designed where everyone has to walk through the office when they enter the schools. The smaller schools are done and my daughter says that everyone has to sign in and large events are in a section that is not open to any other part of the school.

These plans have been going on for about 5 years and the last of the schools should be completed within 2 years.

Almost daily there are letters to the editor about the new schools and there was even a failed lawsuit to try and stop them.

But our superintendent went full steam ahead in spite of DEATH THREATS. Yes, DEATH THREATS.

I imagine that Skyline school has a PTA and the parents were satisfied with the school policies or they would have had them changed.

When we had events at my elementary school, there would be up to 1200 people attending. Could that many people sign in?

The public has to pony up to have safe schools made and sadly, with the events in my community, I don't see that happening.

The school I work at will not be done until the following year. The Superintendent called it a rabbit warren where people could live for weeks and not be seen. Yet, this is one of the schools that the people are really angry about closing.

I know that I am really off topic about Skyline, but I was appalled at the condition of that school. At least our schools look taken care of on the exterior. And this is no slam on the custodial staff there at all.

As a teacher, I am totally upset about the physical buildings that our children have to be in.

 

[Jules71]

IMO, they need better lawyers. They don't need to say "This is our fault!". In a courtroom, it will be their actions - as documented by statements like this - that exemplify their culpability (or lack thereof if it didn't exist or if they did have better attorneys ).

Because they published this statement, they will be unable to claim that they thought Kyron left with Terri because of a medical appointment, and that that is the reason they implemented these steps. They are implementing steps that would not help with any confusion or misunderstanding in that instance.

And should Terri be charged, and the DA brings in school officials to say they thought Terri was taking Kyron for an appointment, Houze will have a twinkle in his eye as he whips out this statement.

I'm glad this thread was started, because it's been a long time since I read what the school said and did. Clearly, they were not confident about that appointment.

And to think, a simple, cheap piece of paper and a pencil, for a sign out procedure, would have done so much here. Poor Kyron.

How would a sign out procedure have helped if no one signed him out? What I mean is -in my school you are supposed to sign them out, but no one is standing over you making sure you do it. You could either do it, sign someone else's name or doodle on the sign out sheet, or skip it altogether. And in this case, even if you were supposed to sign your kid out - if TMH is responsible for this - she would not have signed him out.

But I do know what you mean - a sign out procedure of some sorts that would truly and accurately account for people. I swear the only way to prevent this would be to have all the students wear some kind of device that sounds an alarm if they go outside the boundaries. That way, you have to check out at the office and have your ankle device removed or inactivated. Now we really don't want to do that, do we? :waitasec:

 

[cypress]

ITA with you, Aedrys. I'm certain changes have taken place there, even expensive ones. You give that it might have been a stranger. You are open to other explinations more than I am.

I believe it was TH. She knew the school, the teachers, the hours, and the layout. She threw out a red herring about the Dr's appt, which, as far as I know, has never been confirmed for that day, the next day, or the next week (when school was not even going to be in session).

Ultimately, with regard to the culpability of the school, does the identity of the person responsible matter, or only that the person responsible was able to manipulate the vulnerabilities of the school in such a way that an innocent child was abducted and is likely deceased?

There may have been strangers there that day, but who were they? None have come out in the press as being there. No teachers or employees have mentioned strangers being there as far as I know. IMO, a stranger would have stood out in such a small community of people. Regular and known faces would have just been the norm, nothing to be alarmed about or anyone to watch or pay special attention to.

imho moo

On Facebook, students at Skyline openly discussed a "creepy" (their word) guy they saw at the school that day. Who was the creepy guy? Did the creepy guy sign in? Is the creepy guy a father, uncle, or grandfather of one of the science fair participants? Why was he considered creepy? Why won't anyone address the the identity or even the existence of the creepy guy?

The identity of the man in the picture of Kyron was confirmed. What about creepy guy?

ARGH, I can't find a link to prior discussions about creepy guy. I'll work on finding it.

 

[wondering1]

IMO, they need better lawyers. They don't need to say "This is our fault!". In a courtroom, it will be their actions - as documented by statements like this - that exemplify their culpability (or lack thereof if it didn't exist or if they did have better attorneys ).

Because they published this statement, they will be unable to claim that they thought Kyron left with Terri because of a medical appointment, and that that is the reason they implemented these steps. They are implementing steps that would not help with any confusion or misunderstanding in that instance.

And should Terri be charged, and the DA brings in school officials to say they thought Terri was taking Kyron for an appointment, Houze will have a twinkle in his eye as he whips out this statement.

I'm glad this thread was started, because it's been a long time since I read what the school said and did. Clearly, they were not confident about that appointment.

And to think, a simple, cheap piece of paper and a pencil, for a sign out procedure, would have done so much here. Poor Kyron.

Imo, they did this to invoke the "subsequent remedial measures" doctrine. All legal maneuvering to avoid potential liability. jmoo.

Public policy doctrines for the exclusion of relevant evidence, in the law of evidence in the United States, encompass several types of evidence that would be relevant to prove facts at issue in a legal proceeding, but which are nonetheless excluded because of public policy concerns. There are five major areas of exclusion: subsequent remedial measures
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_policy_doctrines_for_the_exclusion_of_relevant_evidence[/ame]

eta: i think the bold was in the response to the OP that I quoted. I'm talking about whatever steps the school may have implemented.

 

[easttexas]

I worked in a pre-school many moons ago ( about 20 years ago) and on the application we told ALL parents that if you think in this year someone might have to pick your child up instead of you we will need a copy of their DL on file. THen all the parent had to do was call in and say Grammy is picking up little Hannah today and we would say tell her to bring in her DL. But, if Grammy just showed up without that call...she couldn't have granchild. Even if we KNEW them...it had to be backed up with a call or in writing. Most of the people I was in contact with thanked many times. One I will never forget....his grammy came to get him and she was a nurse...as I could tell in her scrubs. He was so excited to see her..and I knew that he knew her...but I said to her..I don't know you and I know his Grammy is picking him up..I need to see you DL. And she said I will show you everything I have and I am so thankful that you do this...most folks that want that extra measure when it comes to their kids. I am not laying blame on the school yet. I want to know what the said teacher did after she thought Kyron was in the bathroom.

 

[human]

One thing that I have noticed in my life time is that laws are only for the law abiding.

That is why books that cover laws in communities of all kinds are sooooooo thick.

Someone who wants to skirt around the law will find a way around it. Then a new law is written to cover that issue.

It's a crazy world out there.

 

[BeanE]

[/B]

How would a sign out procedure have helped if no one signed him out? What I mean is -in my school you are supposed to sign them out, but no one is standing over you making sure you do it. You could either do it, sign someone else's name or doodle on the sign out sheet, or skip it altogether. And in this case, even if you were supposed to sign your kid out - if TMH is responsible for this - she would not have signed him out.

But I do know what you mean - a sign out procedure of some sorts that would truly and accurately account for people. I swear the only way to prevent this would be to have all the students wear some kind of device that sounds an alarm if they go outside the boundaries. That way, you have to check out at the office and have your ankle device removed or inactivated. Now we really don't want to do that, do we? :waitasec:

If Terri did this, in the manner so many people here believe, and have described, the knowledge that this procedure existed may have stopped her, and I would say likely would have put the brakes on her, and likely Kyron would not now be missing. Terri would have known that shortly after 10, that roll sheet was going to hit the office, and Kyron being missing would have surfaced before 10:30.

Whether Terri did this or not, a sign out procedure and check against the teacher's roll I described would have, in the least, called to attention, hours and hours earlier, that Kyron was missing. It is well known that time is of the essence in missing child cases. The sooner it's known they're missing, the chances of them being found, alive, safe, and well, significantly increase. The stats can be found on NCMEC's site as well as the DOJ site. I'm happy to find them if anyone wants to take a look. Just holler.