Does Skyline school bear any responsibility?

[STEADFAST]

The school does have a sign out sheet. All Portland Public schools do. The teacher knew that. Terri knew that. So then what? Was the teacher supposed to escort Terri to the office to watch her sign him out? Wouldn't it be fair for the teacher to assume Terri would stop at the office to sign him out per the school policy? Parents are not supposed to just take their kid and walk out the door. I guess I am just not sure how this part could have been any different. Anyone have any suggestions? Keep in mind that this school is about 80 years old, not a nice, new, modern school designed with security in mind. How could that school guarantee that no kid gets out of the school without being signed out through the office?

It would have been different if the office had gathered the roll and checked it against the sign-out sheet that day.
Also, I had to sign my children out of school before I took them from class. Maybe this is exactly why Terri picked that particular day, when she would already be in the class with Kyron, to take him. Allegedly.

eta I don't think Kyron's teacher did anything wrong.

 

[eyes4crime]

If terry did in fact take Kyron from the school, why would she have to sign him out, school hadn't started yet, it didn't officially start until 10:00. Kyron wasn't there for roll call. Why would the teacher have expected Terry to sign Kyron out if she thought Kyron was just there for the SF, and being brought to the Dr., Class hadn't started yet.

Interesting! Seems the school was open for 2 hours with no safe guards in place. With nobody responsible, anyone could walk in, hide, and snatch up a child. Was an outside source sponsoring the Expo? How can the school advertise a science expo and a talent show and leave all security up to the children? I'm lost! :waitasec: moo

 

[gwenabob]

In my children's elementary school, the PTSA raised the money for the security cameras. The school backs onto a creek,which is deep in the winter months. We had silent auctions, pay to play softball games,car washes,pot luck suppers and so on ... It was so worth it... Our community has many IT people who work for a little company that Bill Gates started awhile back.... They chipped in too...

All JMO

I think that is a wonderful idea. Portland PTAs also do lots of fundraising. Unfortunately, at this time, those funds are being used to plug holes in actual education--paying for so-called "extras" like music and foreign language. Portland just went through a round of cuts and many music teachers were just laid off. Our schools are going down the tubes very quickly. We are in such dire straits, there simply are no funds for security systems. Awful, but true.

 

[wondering1]

my kids' school is of the new variety. Only one way in and out is through the office unless you're willing to hop a fence. Fences and gates that can lock across all common areas; sign in/sign out procedures; call system, etc. Any day, any time, I could get past the sign-in/sign out with a smile, explanation and an illegible signature; the call procedure, by not answering the phone. And I'm not a *known* parent since a work ft. I'm almost never at the school. And even now that I've had kids there for years, only one or two office employees recognize me, and that could change if they should happen to not work there anymore. And on special event day, anything goes.

Imo, there is no *reasonable* precaution that could prevent an abduction, stranger or otherwise, from inside a school. And it is SO rare, I wouldn't be willing to fund it -- even knowing what I know about this and other cases. Personally, I would prefer that prisons be more like prisons, and schools be less so. I think that harsher consequences for wrongdoers of the worst kind is the better solution to this problem. I don't like the idea of kids believing that they are in constant danger. The vast majority of kids are not. jmoo

 

[gwenabob]

Interesting! Seems the school was open for 2 hours with no safe guards in place. With nobody responsible, anyone could walk in, hide, and snatch up a child. Was an outside source sponsoring the Expo? How can the school advertise a science expo and a talent show and leave all security up to the children? I'm lost! :waitasec: moo

I guess I look at it this way:

What if the science fair had been held in the evening hours? Would you expect every adult--parents, aunts, uncles, older sibs, grandma, etc. to sign in upon arrival? Would you want them to show ID at the door to prove they are related to one of the students and to keep "strangers" out? Impossible and not reasonable.

So, what is to stop a pervert from walking into any evening school activity and walking out with a kid? We do a Halloween carnival every year that is extremely popular--wall to wall people all evening long. Our main fundraiser. Inside and outside. Kids running around from game to game. Parents visiting with each other and trying to keep up with multiple kids. What is to keep someone from walking in and kidnapping a child? Nothing!

This activity is exactly the same, except it was held in the morning instead of the evening. I just can't see where the school is to blame, if indeed Terri is guilty of what many of us think. I just can't do it. If it does end up a stranger did it, then 99% of elementary schools in this nation have a big problem!

ETA: I have a good idea that there were teachers and the principal in the hallway monitoring things. It was said early on that Terri was seen talking to the principal in the hall. So it is not like there was "nobody responsible."

 

[cluciano63]

To me, I can't away from little TP...if only LE would clear up that one thing...he couldn't have invented an entire exchange...

 

[gwenabob]

To me, I can't away from little TP...if only LE would clear up that one thing...he couldn't have invented an entire exchange...

Yeah, I sure would like to hear his version clarified and juxtaposed against the adults involved in this exchange. We may have to wait for a trial--if there ever is one....

 

[citigirl]

Yeah, I sure would like to hear his version clarified and juxtaposed against the adults involved in this exchange. We may have to wait for a trial--if there ever is one....

Could he have mixed up the day?

 

[cj1132]

When my kids were in school, we lived in a very small town and grades K-12 were in the same building and that building was not that big. When I look back at the security, it was not good. The back playground area was not fenced in and the side was fenced in but only so the kid's balls didn't go into the neighbor's yard. When my kids were in school, my worries were along the line of if they were behaving -- never did I consider that they weren't safe. As to whether Skyline is responsible, I can see that they could be if TH is not responsible. The problem is there are probably thousands of schools in the United States that have the same set-up and it's truly remarkable that something like this doesn't happen more often. My son's girlfriend starts her student teaching this fall and I intend to tell her about Kyron because more than likely, there are many teachers that haven't heard about this case.

 

[Kimster]

I think that is a wonderful idea. Portland PTAs also do lots of fundraising. Unfortunately, at this time, those funds are being used to plug holes in actual education--paying for so-called "extras" like music and foreign language. Portland just went through a round of cuts and many music teachers were just laid off. Our schools are going down the tubes very quickly. We are in such dire straits, there simply are no funds for security systems. Awful, but true.

Same thing in the Eugene area too, Gwenabob. And the sports fees are so high that many families who are struggling can't afford those either.

 

[cakegirl0905]

My kids just started school this week. My daughter is in Kindergarten and I found out from one of the moms of my daughter's friend that the two girls (my daughter and her friend) were left alone on the playground yesterday morning. All the teachers went in, all the volunteers went in, all the kids went in and no one noticed they didn't. Apparently it took the girls a while to realize all the other kids were gone and then they went into several different classrooms before finding the right one. And no teacher or staff member stopped to ask them if they needed help.

We are talking about two four year old girls here.

My first thought was Kyron. My daughter and her friend both ride the bus-what if they had been abducted? The playground isn't secure or locked behind a gate, anyone could have taken them. And we wouldn't have known until the afternoon.

Their school is considered one of the best in the state. Yet two 4 year olds were left unsupervised in an open area (next to heavy woods).

It's scary how many of these schools have lax security!!!!

 

[human]

I have been bothered by TP's statement for a long time.

As a teacher, here is a possibility.

Children are good reporters for things that are happening right in front of them I feel.

There is no reason that TP could give the conversation verbatim as there is no reason for him to remember it word for word. The missing child was not missing until many hours later into the day, so a lot went on in TP's day.

As a teacher, I have had conversations with a parent and another one overheats part of the conversation and asks a question.

Quite frankly, it is none of their business, but I do not want to be snarky to the parent so what do I do? I lie. Yes,I do. I make up some vague statement and change the topic.

It is possible that the teacher knew full and well where Kyron was. Since it was a doctor's appt and not anyone else's business, she was not going to say he was at the doctor to a little child nor was she going to say it to the "substitute".

She probably did not want to answer any questions about it and have to have any further conversation about it.

I am just replying on how I may handled the situation depending on the situation, FWIW.

 

[gwenabob]

I have been bothered by TP's statement for a long time.

As a teacher, here is a possibility.

Children are good reporters for things that are happening right in front of them I feel.

There is no reason that TP could give the conversation verbatim as there is no reason for him to remember it word for word. The missing child was not missing until many hours later into the day, so a lot went on in TP's day.

As a teacher, I have had conversations with a parent and another one overheats part of the conversation and asks a question.

Quite frankly, it is none of their business, but I do not want to be snarky to the parent so what do I do? I lie. Yes,I do. I make up some vague statement and change the topic.

It is possible that the teacher knew full and well where Kyron was. Since it was a doctor's appt and not anyone else's business, she was not going to say he was at the doctor to a little child nor was she going to say it to the "substitute".

She probably did not want to answer any questions about it and have to have any further conversation about it.

I am just replying on how I may handled the situation depending on the situation, FWIW.

This explanation has crossed my mind as well. Perhaps this was her way of saying "none of your concern" in a nice way.

 

[cluciano63]

Could he have mixed up the day?

I don't see how, since he mentioned the bit about there should have been five or whatever, meaning when they broke into groups for the tour.

I do think it is possible that the teacher waved him off, it was none of his business if Kyron was at the doctor's, but why say, if she did, that he might be getting a drink? That just makes no sense at all. I wonder if this part could be embellished by TP. But what about the electric project bit? Maybe that was proven to be earlier? I guess no one is going to tell us...but this is the one sticking point for me that makes me wonder about who really did this. The way LE is acting we have to think they ruled out TP altogether.

 

[cypress]

I don't see how, since he mentioned the bit about there should have been five or whatever, meaning when they broke into groups for the tour.

I do think it is possible that the teacher waved him off, it was none of his business if Kyron was at the doctor's, but why say, if she did, that he might be getting a drink? That just makes no sense at all. I wonder if this part could be embellished by TP. But what about the electric project bit? Maybe that was proven to be earlier? I guess no one is going to tell us...but this is the one sticking point for me that makes me wonder about who really did this. The way LE is acting we have to think they ruled out TP altogether.

IMHO, it's possible some of TP's details are a bit off, such has his use of the word "sub" and possibly the time, and I think LE ruled him out as a credible witness for those reasons. It's also possible that TP's account of the time he saw Kyron would nearly absolve Terri, especially if TP saw Kyron near the time, or even after the time, Terri is accounted for at the first FM.

Dede's account of her time with police, specifically her saying LE wanted her to tell them Terri did it or was responsible, firmly cemented my opinion that LE is dismissing evidence and statements that do not support their belief of Terri's guilt. LE shouldn't want any witness to tell them anything except the truth, no matter who it implicates or who it exonerates.

TP was interviewed fairly early on, before a lot of details were leaked and before the court of public opinion had firmly convicted Terri. Neither TP nor his family had anything to lose or gain by relaying his story to the press. I think his grandmother had good intentions, even if she was a bit misguided.

 

[gardeness]

I do think the school set itself up for a bad scenario... There is much I don't know about Oregon's schools/procedures/laws--first, how many hours per day and days per year are children supposed to be in school? I ask because in Texas, schools start at a specific time. School might open early, as Skyline did, but classes would still start at the same time. And, if a child is not counted "present" by a specific time that morning, they are "absent", even if they come to school for the afternoon. I don't understand how Skyline could officially "start" school at 10:00 (it just seems like a set-up for confusion).

I am also confused about why it is being stated (and I don't even know if this is being quoted from an article or if it's an assumption) that school started at Skyline at 10:00 on June 4. If it started at 10:00, why were children put into groups to tour the exhibits at 9:00?

I think about the bus schedules--I wouldn't imagine that the buses would have a different schedule for one school one day (again, I'm not in Oregon, so I have no idea!). Not all parents can make it to events like a Science Fair, and IMO, it would be strange to disrupt working parents' morning routine with a change in school hours. It seems like the buses would run on schedule and parents would put their children on the bus like any other day. If school wasn't starting at it's usual time, the administration would have to have teachers and aides (and, I guess parent volunteers) in place all over the school to watch, direct, and keep track of children.

Last, it makes no sense to me if children were taken to school by bus at their regular time, then had one or two hours where they were not accounted for (by taking roll call) before class started.

If I knew more answers about all of these issues, I would have a better idea of the school's responsibility in the disappearance of Kyron...

 

[liz b.]

My kids just started school this week. My daughter is in Kindergarten and I found out from one of the moms of my daughter's friend that the two girls (my daughter and her friend) were left alone on the playground yesterday morning. All the teachers went in, all the volunteers went in, all the kids went in and no one noticed they didn't. Apparently it took the girls a while to realize all the other kids were gone and then they went into several different classrooms before finding the right one. And no teacher or staff member stopped to ask them if they needed help.

We are talking about two four year old girls here.

My first thought was Kyron. My daughter and her friend both ride the bus-what if they had been abducted? The playground isn't secure or locked behind a gate, anyone could have taken them. And we wouldn't have known until the afternoon.

Their school is considered one of the best in the state. Yet two 4 year olds were left unsupervised in an open area (next to heavy woods).

It's scary how many of these schools have lax security!!!!

Wow,Cakegirl, that had to have been so scary.For them and for you....

All JMO

 

[gardeness]

Dear Skyline School Community and Neighbors:

Many of you are aware that on May 2, 2010, more than 125 volunteers from Sunset Presbyterian spent the day at Skyline School doing inside and outside projects. With the help of several Skyline parents, students and neighbors the amount of work that was done that day was truly amazing. In a continuing effort to support our school and complete the work started on May 2nd, Sunset Presbyterian volunteers will be returning on Sunday, August 29th for “Skyline Service Day”. Here are some of the projects that we will be doing:

* Finish painting exterior metal handrails.
* Finish painting trim in two classrooms.
* Paint one wall in the library.
* Clean out and reorganize “volunteer” room and “locker rooms” in basement of school.
* Landscaping around the school.
* Track maintenance

This will be our 10th and final year as Skyline parents and we are thrilled to partner with Sunset Presbyterian church for Skyline Service Day. This has been a difficult last few months for our Skyline staff and families, and we want to make sure that our school looks especially great when our kids return to class in September. As the project leaders we are seeking additional volunteers for the day from the Skyline community. In addition, we are looking for donations of water and snacks that we can provide to the volunteers during the day. If you are unable to volunteer we are also seeking monetary donations to help fund the purchase of supplies (paint, equipment, bark dust, etc.) needed for the day.

If you can help out in any capacity please contact us at maggieschweinfurth@comcast.net. Thanks so much!

Maggie and Bill Schweinfurth

http://srnpdx.org/current_newsline

Wow. I wonder if LE knows about this and if it's been checked out. Just wow.

 

[BeanE]

If Skyline had a strict sign-out system, instead of allowing people to casually take their children out of school (never heard of being able to remove your child from school by just talking to the teacher), and checked attendance against the sign-out sheet, things might be different. At least, no matter who took Kyron, the school would have known of Kyron's disappearance at 10 a.m. instead of 3:45 p.m., and Kyron would have had a better chance at being rescued.

Upthread, you can see in Skyline's handbook, that they did have check out procedure for those times students left prior to dismissal. Two steps are necessary:
- signed note
- person taking the student goes to office and signs them out

In all fairness to the school, I haven't seen anything to indicate that the school was not following this particular procedure. And to clarify that, it is the sign in/out for visitors - not students - that's been reported as not being followed on June 4, and the reason reported is that it was commonly suspended for event days, such as with the science fair.

 

[BeanE]

The school does have a sign out sheet. All Portland Public schools do. The teacher knew that. Terri knew that. So then what? Was the teacher supposed to escort Terri to the office to watch her sign him out? Wouldn't it be fair for the teacher to assume Terri would stop at the office to sign him out per the school policy? Parents are not supposed to just take their kid and walk out the door. I guess I am just not sure how this part could have been any different. Anyone have any suggestions? Keep in mind that this school is about 80 years old, not a nice, new, modern school designed with security in mind. How could that school guarantee that no kid gets out of the school without being signed out through the office?

I agree. No need for the teacher to escort the adult to the office, IMO. Skyline has published the procedure in their handbook, and I think that meets their moral and legal obligations to notify parents what the procedure is for taking a child out of school prior to dismissal.

Further, they have, published in their handbook, an additional step - signed note (see upthread for details), so IMO they have a good check-and-balance, via the two step process. (If one step fails, another step catches it.)

There's been no indication that the school was not following or enforcing this check out procedure for students leaving prior to dismissal. I would be very surprised to find out they weren't, particularly to find out that neither of the two steps in this good procedure were followed/enforced. That would be very alarming. But again, in all fairness to the school, there have no indications whatever that the school was not following this procedure.