Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[ifuonlyknew]

Your comment about learning knots leads to a persistent question of mine. Who in the household knew how to tie these knots? I can see JR and BR....but PR. Of course the intruder theory provides another possibility.

How many "intruders" would have this skill? I'm with you.... no one but J and B.

 

[Lilibet]

Thank you for the welcome. I can say this.... grandma might have also been unaware of the seriousness of it. And, I as a child trusted my sibling over and over again. I even put my finger in a lamp socket that had no bulb (live electricity) because I trusted "the game". I was shocked and the sibling laughed. And I without a doubt am sure my parents would have covered anything serious that would have happened due to that "game". Young children trust. It's heartbreaking. Thanks again for the welcome.

It's heartbreaking and horrible that you went through this. I just want to hug you! Welcome and thanks for adding your experience to our understanding.

 

[lostin ga]

I have to say that the Dr. Phil interview made me very sad. I worked for Patsy. I knew her well. She quit working when she had Burke. I went to Jon Benet's funeral. I last talked to her in 1995 after they moved to Boulder. There is no way she did this. She did not have a temper. She felt grateful to be alive after being diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She loved her children. Burke and Jon Benet both looked like her. It was so sad seeing the pictures and interviews with her. They had everything and lost everything. I can't believe what it must have been like being Burke growing up. Just sad all around.

 

[ifuonlyknew]

No one, and I mean no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. (most of all employees) My abusive sibling (from our warm and loving family) is also thought to be the most loving, charming, honest human being on the planet. I am sooo glad you had a warm and positive experience with this person. Things are NOT what they always seem. I wish they were, but they are definitely not. rainbows and unicorns

 

[8paws]

The books grandma gave (ie Teaching children right from wrong) is also a clue. (source... bonita papers) Something was up and not quite right and grandma knew it. All parents will be in denial. Mine were. I suffered severe physical abuse from a sibling at an early age until my teenage years and each time it was excused as an accident or the sibling "just being a kid". (I was stabbed with a stick in my crib by this sibling when the sibling was just 4 yrs old and I was of course an infant) My sibling wanted me dead.(still does. but after adulthood it becomes character assassination in the extreme form... even going to my neighbors and bosses) Every broken bone and stitch was excused away. I learned quickly never to be alone with this person. Unless you have been raised in a dysfunctional family made that way by a child born with a mental disorder (which I believe B as well as my sibling was), you won't see what I do. If you haven't experienced it, I'm glad you did not live what I have. My theories may seem absurd by many, but I have them. It has been suggested that she was abused in the past, be it "playing doctor" or whatever. B, in my mind (my opinion only), experimented on her and she irritated him at every turn. Be it touching pineapple with poopy fingers or else. In my mind, she screamed (was it touching pineapple or the forceful vaginal jabbing with a paint brush?). A bash on the head with the flashlight to shut her up? Who knows. (doubtful any of us will ever really know) Was he experimenting with or curious about strangulation? (my sibling was obsessed with mummification at that age... you know, all the organs being removed and all). They were boaters and surely he had learned knots by that age. this is just my two cents. My sibling at that age had incredibly strength to do similar if in a "rage".

I would love to find out that it was indeed an intruder. Would love it, but so far, nothing is convincing me. So fire away. Thanks in advance.

All the above is just my opinion and theory.

My heart goes out to you Ifyouonlyknew. I cannot imagine living that and no one believed you. It happens so much.

 

[lostin ga]

I just can't imagine that John or Patsy would give Burke a pass if he killed his sister.

 

[8paws]

Sorry if this has been previously mentioned, but I watched DP clips for weeks and heard him say "no lawyers"!! Then lo and behold, there's John and then LW right by his side!! So, did any of you catch him try and smooth that over with us minions and dimwitted RDI peeps.. that LW JUST HAPPENED to be there the day that he interviewed John?. .......I ain't lying y'all. I bout spit out my diet Pepsi. So, anyhoo, anyone else catch that? If so what do you think? You think LW had zero input into Burke's questions and answers? Was he just there to console John and give him moral support or there to make sure DP ask the questions they agreed on (and I truly believe they were prearranged) and make sure Burke gave the planned answers? That surprise show this week was for pure damage control and to belittle the ones of us that believe in RDI theories. .smiles, chuckles,smirks..And also to convince the public that are fence sitters to come on over to the Ramsey camp. Not sure he's accomplished that. I have been reading a lot and most peeps I read about took away from the show that RDI.

 

[ifuonlyknew]

yes, they would. at that point, they had no choice. he did it, what were they to do? turn him in? make a monster of him? make a lifelong public monster of him? make their family a monster in the public arena? it was all about that. think about it.

 

[YouWho]

Sorry if this has been previously mentioned, but I watched DP clips for weeks and heard him say "no lawyers"!! Then lo and behold, there's John and then LW right by his side!! So, did any of you catch him try and smooth that over with us minions and dimwitted RDI peeps.. that LW JUST HAPPENED to be there the day that he interviewed John?. .......I ain't lying y'all. I bout spit out my diet Pepsi. So, anyhoo, anyone else catch that? If so what do you think? You think LW had zero input into Burke's questions and answers? Was he just there to console John and give him moral support or there to make sure DP ask the questions they agreed on (and I truly believe they were prearranged) and make sure Burke gave the planned answers? That surprise show this week was for pure damage control and to belittle the ones of us that believe in RDI theories. .smiles, chuckles,smirks..And also to convince the public that are fence sitters to come on over to the Ramsey camp. Not sure he's accomplished that. I have been reading a lot and most peeps I read about took away from the show that RDI.

Yeah. Dr. Phil even interviewed him. Dr. Phil should be ashamed of himself.

 

[8paws]

Yeah. Dr. Phil even interviewed him. Dr. Phil should be ashamed of himself.

Yes, he should be ashamed but I bet he's not. He's in the Ramsey camp now and giving a hard sell. From what I've been reading a whole lot of his viewers have lost faith in him and he's lost some credibility.

 

[8paws]

I thought we were really going to see an interview with Burke and see what he would have to say. But we mostly heard from John and LW. Which was NOT in the clips he showed. IT will be the same thing on Monday. I'm not buying what DP is selling.

 

[fedfan4life]

Yes, he should be ashamed but I bet he's not. He's in the Ramsey camp now and giving a hard sell. From what I've been reading a whole lot of his viewers have lost faith in him and he's lost some credibility.

I wouldn't be so sure. If there is any justice in this world, Mr. McGraw (doesn't deserve that Dr. moniker any longer) is feeling some 'things' about his behavior.

 

[PositiveLight]

Thank you for the welcome. I can say this.... grandma might have also been unaware of the seriousness of it. And, I as a child trusted my sibling over and over again. I even put my finger in a lamp socket that had no bulb (live electricity) because I trusted "the game". I was shocked and the sibling laughed. And I without a doubt am sure my parents would have covered anything serious that would have happened due to that "game". Young children trust. It's heartbreaking. Thanks again for the welcome.

Bless your heart!! Hugs! You reminded me of something in your post. Younger siblings always look up to and yearn for their older siblings love and attention. Even when they know it might result in pain. My brother tortured me with things like daring me to do dangerous stuff. I did it too even though I knew it would be bad and hurt.
We want to believe that they wouldn't hurt us. Years and years later when we were both parents, he cried and apologized for everything he put me through. He said he never meant to hurt me. That he did love me and always had. I waited 20 yrs to hear those words. It is hard to understand why we continue to believe them even when the track record is ominous. My situation never went as far as yours mind you. Mine was more just sibling rivalry.
Maybe JBR just wanted her brothers attention and love and would blindly follow where he led.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[noel leon]

Bless your heart!! Hugs! You reminded me of something in your post. Younger siblings always look up to and yearn for their older siblings love and attention. Even when they know it might result in pain. My brother tortured me with things like daring me to do dangerous stuff. I did it too even though I knew it would be bad and hurt.
We want to believe that they wouldn't hurt us. Years and years later when we were both parents, he cried and apologized for everything he put me through. He said he never meant to hurt me. That he did love me and always had. I waited 20 yrs to hear those words. It is hard to understand why we continue to believe them even when the track record is ominous. My situation never went as far as yours mind you. Mine was more just sibling rivalry.
Maybe JBR just wanted her brothers attention and love and would blindly follow where he led.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

making me cry....my childhood too.

 

[BelleIsle]

I just can't imagine that John or Patsy would give Burke a pass if he killed his sister.

IMO there was probably a lot of guilt on their part, if BR was having issues and the family knew enough about it to take him to a therapist...who knows how deep those issues go. Somewhere it was mentioned that JR was walking around saying "We are so sorry", "We didn't mean for this to happen" in the day/s afterward. There are so many theories on here that are infinitely more believable than the Intruder theory, one of which involves BR and behavioral issues that were not properly addressed prior to the murder of JBR. So, that, and then the fact that they didn't want their only surviving child to be institutionalized and shamed, especially if the sexual assault lead back to him, or any of them for that matter. I don't think that the sexual assault (which is likely to have been an on-going thing) was part of the staging, but might have been a precursor to the scream heard by the neighbor and the injury to JBR's head (the scream either coming from JBR or PR upon finding JBR). I doubt they gave him a pass at all, he seems very emotionally damaged, as they all probably were/are, this is assuming they are not narcissistic monsters, and my opinion on that changes with the wind. The most confusing part of all of this is the garrote, everything else can be explained in some way, but if the garrote happened as part of whatever BR had a part in, it is a whole different picture than assigning it to one of her parents.

 

[Lilibet]

I just can't imagine that John or Patsy would give Burke a pass if he killed his sister.

I can understand you feeling that way, since you knew PR well and it would be hard to imagine. I've often wondered how I would feel and react if someone I knew was suspected of a terrible crime. My first instinct would be disbelief and then loyal support if the evidence is ambiguous. But I have known a few husbands who unexpectedly left their wives after months of planning, and it showed me that you don't always know people as well as you think you do. It's tough to swallow, for sure, and we never want to believe our friends are capable of wrongdoing. I feel for you. But I do agree with ifuonlyknew that the consequences of exposing Burke would likely lead to protective measures that were out of character for JR and PR. And if it wasn't BDI, I think JR and PR would very likely each protect their family reputation by covering for each other. No one really had anything to gain by exposing a family member...and a lot to lose.

yes, they would. at that point, they had no choice. he did it, what were they to do? turn him in? make a monster of him? make a lifelong public monster of him? make their family a monster in the public arena? it was all about that. think about it.

 

[PositiveLight]

I have to say that the Dr. Phil interview made me very sad. I worked for Patsy. I knew her well. She quit working when she had Burke. I went to Jon Benet's funeral. I last talked to her in 1995 after they moved to Boulder. There is no way she did this. She did not have a temper. She felt grateful to be alive after being diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She loved her children. Burke and Jon Benet both looked like her. It was so sad seeing the pictures and interviews with her. They had everything and lost everything. I can't believe what it must have been like being Burke growing up. Just sad all around.

Hi! Welcome to the forums! I'm so glad you could bring your experience with the family to the forum. It truly is sad all together. I am still surprised to this day at how many people can work and live around someone and never realize what is hiding under the surface. Not saying that PR was hiding anything from you.
I always refer people to Ann Rule's first book "The stranger beside me".
She discusses what it was like to work beside and know Ted Bundy and how after the fact he allowed her to interview him and stayed in contact with him. She said he had three sides. One for the public, one for those very close to him like his long time girlfriend, and the last side was what the victims saw. He hid it extremely well. It was very eye opening for me honestly. After that I never would say I knew someone completely. Because we can't. There are parts of us only we know and keep close. If we are being totally honest with ourselves, no one on earth but God knows everything about us. All the truths. We all tell small white lies to hide indiscretions. Therefore no one can know the complete and total truth about us. Some things we take to our graves.:thinking:

 

[PositiveLight]

making me cry....my childhood too.

I lost him 6 years ago too. He went in his sleep from a heart related issue. He was buried on his birthday. It was so shocking to me. Until my daddy's death two years ago i refused to go to his grave and still spoke of him in present tense and would always cry at the mere mention of anything related to him. I still do and I cried when I wrote that remembering those long lost feelings.
That's one of the reasons maybe that I can't let Burke off with a poor fella pat on the back. He's an adult now not a 9 yr old little boy. Where is that sadness and hurt and need for justice? The smiling coulda been nerves for the first five minutes. After that.... not buying it. Something is off. Plus in Dr. Phil's big Q&A session he specifically stated he had no known psych issues. So for me that rules out any spectrum problems. If he had even the smallest issue, i would suspect DP would shout it from the rooftops that that is why he smiled and acted so oddly. But he didn't.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I tried to take some notes as I watched Dr. Phil's 'impromptu' episode. I quit about half-way through because I was just disgusted but I intend to finish watching it eventually.

- How rich that Dr. Phil goes on a media tour to tell the world that Burke's affect is "atypical" and his smiling at inappropriate times will interest people greatly then acts like anyone who thinks there's anything the slightest bit odd about it is stupid. He also says that he doesn't find Burke's "nervous smiling" weird because he's spent months getting to know Burke.
a) What? Months?
b) After all that time together, Burke still isn't comfortable enough talking to Dr. Phil to not smile nervously the entire time?
- Burke makes the statement that he wants people to focus on finding "the real killer" instead of making up "bogus" theories about him and his parents.
- I'm still confused about when this was filmed. Dr. Phil even seems to present it as something that was just thrown together after the specials were so popular, which logistically makes no sense. He also throws in some questions asked on Facebook. Was that from the Q&A from the other day, or did he have people ask questions on Facebook a while ago?
- Ooh, still trying to sell the basement window as an entry point! Now my blood is boiling because it's just stupid. Both Phil and Katie Couric (in the Lou Smit clip) make it sound like the reason the BPD discounted the window was because a person "couldn't get in there." DP says with a laugh that we just watched a 60-year-old man slide right in. No mention of the spider web, aka the real reason the BPD thought no one came through that window. Whatever, they might as well milk it for now. CBS has that spider web covered.
- lol, now he's bragging about what a "hard-edged" interrogator he is and says people asked why he didn't "crossexamine" Burke. DP repeats for the thousandth time that Burke wasn't a suspect, that's why. I'd suggest a drinking game where you drink every time DP says BR was never a suspect, but 13 minutes in and I'm already afraid I'd die of alcohol poisoning. He says Burke's answers are short because he doesn't know much and his memory has decayed.
- He points out LW was present for JR's interview, but only because he was interviewing both of them about the same thing; JR didn't request it.
- DP's explanation of the DNA is so muddled I'm not even going to bother. It's about 16 minutes in though. He says something about how the police got the "exonerating" DNA evidence within two weeks (of the murder?) but didn't give it to the DA's office for 7 months. Then he skips ahead to Lin Wood writing a letter to Mary Lacy, them having a "secret meeting" where she told him she agreed the Ramseys "had been targeted by the Boulder DA an it was getting out of control. This led to an -unprecedented- act." Then there's a clip of JR saying the 2 weeks thing, and LW saying he told Lacy that he would sue the city of Boulder if the case wasn't transferred to a "third party, objective, competent law enforcement agency". How does the BDA fit that bill?
DP asks LW and JR if JR has been "scientifically" exonerated and LW says, Yes.

Aaaaand that was when I couldn't take it anymore.

 

[PositiveLight]

I tried to take some notes as I watched Dr. Phil's 'impromptu' episode. I quit about half-way through because I was just disgusted but I intend to finish watching it eventually.

- How rich that Dr. Phil goes on a media tour to tell the world that Burke's affect is "atypical" and his smiling at inappropriate times will interest people greatly then acts like anyone who thinks there's anything the slightest bit odd about it is stupid. He also says that he doesn't find Burke's "nervous smiling" weird because he's spent months getting to know Burke.
a) What? Months?
b) After all that time together, Burke still isn't comfortable enough talking to Dr. Phil to not smile nervously the entire time?
- Burke makes the statement that he wants people to focus on finding "the real killer" instead of making up "bogus" theories about him and his parents.
- I'm still confused about when this was filmed. Dr. Phil even seems to present it as something that was just thrown together after the specials were so popular, which logistically makes no sense. He also throws in some questions asked on Facebook. Was that from the Q&A from the other day, or did he have people ask questions on Facebook a while ago?
- Ooh, still trying to sell the basement window as an entry point! Now my blood is boiling because it's just stupid. Both Phil and Katie Couric (in the Lou Smit clip) make it sound like the reason the BPD discounted the window was because a person "couldn't get in there." DP says with a laugh that we just watched a 60-year-old man slide right in. No mention of the spider web, aka the real reason the BPD thought no one came through that window. Whatever, they might as well milk it for now. CBS has that spider web covered.
- lol, now he's bragging about what a "hard-edged" interrogator he is and says people asked why he didn't "crossexamine" Burke. DP repeats for the thousandth time that Burke wasn't a suspect, that's why. I'd suggest a drinking game where you drink every time DP says BR was never a suspect, but 13 minutes in and I'm already afraid I'd die of alcohol poisoning. He says Burke's answers are short because he doesn't know much and his memory has decayed.
- He points out LW was present for JR's interview, but only because he was interviewing both of them about the same thing; JR didn't request it.
- DP's explanation of the DNA is so muddled I'm not even going to bother. It's about 16 minutes in though. He says something about how the police got the "exonerating" DNA evidence within two weeks (of the murder?) but didn't give it to the DA's office for 7 months. Then he skips ahead to Lin Wood writing a letter to Mary Lacy, them having a "secret meeting" where she told him she agreed the Ramseys "had been targeted by the Boulder DA an it was getting out of control. This led to an -unprecedented- act." Then there's a clip of JR saying the 2 weeks thing, and LW saying he told Lacy that he would sue the city of Boulder if the case wasn't transferred to a "third party, objective, competent law enforcement agency". How does the BDA fit that bill?
DP asks LW and JR if JR has been "scientifically" exonerated and LW says, Yes.

Aaaaand that was when I couldn't take it anymore.

Huge question but first GREAT post! I thought the threat of suing bolder was the only reason Mary Lacey exonerated him.
Here's my question: If John and Patsy were exonerated, then can they never be charged in the crime now? Or is it still open to where they can have charges brought on them? I that BR can't be arrested due to his age at the time of the crime. Statute of limitations have also ran out. UNLESS JR was the killer. I still don't think he did it though.