Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[PositiveLight]

Agreed. And, speculating here, I also think everyone who asked a question was a Dr. Phil staff member asking prepared questions --- enabling DP to control the narrative. Even by Dr. Phil standards, that Q&A show was manipulative and carefully packaged to position the Ramseys as innocent.

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AMEN!!! Those questions were definitely prepared. I highly doubt everyone in that audience thought he was innocent. Yet not a single question was leaning this way. Strange.

 

[PositiveLight]

How's this...

After going to bed and the parents going to their bedroom, JB gets BR up (or vice-versa) and they go downstairs. BR gets the flashlight and they go to the basement awhile (were there toys in the basement also?) After coming up they go to the kitchen, BR sets the flashlight on the counter and gets the bowl of pineapple (his fingerprints on the bowl). He eats the pineapple and JB possibly picking pieces out with her fingers (her fingerprints not on the bowl). Patsy goes down to the kids bedroom's for a final check and realizes they must be downstairs. She is now royally pissed because it may be 1am (?) by then and they are supposed to be up early. She confronts them in the kitchen and JB talks back to her or otherwise infuriates her further and Patsy grabs the flashlight and hits in in blind momentary rage. Proceed with the cover-up.

Not saying I believe this because I still have a problem with whoever choking her to death while not realizing she was still alive. That's my big sticking point because you don't have to be a doctor or a paramedic to know that if someone is still breathing and has a pulse they are still alive. But I think this scenario is better than the PDI by accident upstairs because it accounts for the pineapple?

I had a very similar theory too. I don't think a wet bed led to it due to the fact that PR was very used to that and even BR admitted he wet the bed too. I think it was more out of frustration and exhaustion. Plus PR and JBR got in an argument that morning because JBR didn't want to wear a certain dress. If you look at everything they did in the weeks leading up to the murder, you can see why she might have snapped. BR may very well have just been a witness and lived in fear of PR after that. I sure as hell would have been scared of her too if I saw my mama do that.

 

[PositiveLight]

Is it an absolute certainty that the flashlight was responsible for JBR's head trauma? Could some other heavy object have been used instead? Any hammer's laying around the place or a weapon that has never been recovered? A fracture that size would have been caused by a very forceful blow to the head with a heavy object IMO.

I think the flashlight has been brought into play because the Ramsey's are privy to what the CBS investigation is going to reveal. Hence them jumping ahead of the circus to try and save face.
The flashlight in question is very heavy and even with a slight bit of force (even from a child) could easily crack a child's skull like that. I read and also posted a link somewhere on here that a maglight was considered a great object for defense that can go where guns aren't allowed. Also cops use this type of flashlight. Not saying it WAS the weapon but it fits the wound shape and could do the damage.
A hammer is also a possibility too. I do not however think the bat was the weapon. I think the wound pattern would have been much different.
Also there were golfclubs in the basement photographed IIRC.
I fiddled around with my mag light the other night and felt very strongly that it could've easily been the weapon used to cause the skull fracture. I keep one beside my bed for that exact reason.

 

[asyousay]

For me it all just fits together , Burke has admitted he was downstairs now and he would of used the flashlight to go down as he would not of switched on the lights. Now did he wake up Jon Benet so that if he got caught by his parents then he was not the only one in trouble or maybe she woke up and caught him.

Then something happened which meant in anger he lashed out and hit her and then the cover up by his parents.


MOO IMO

 

[PositiveLight]

I can imagine John taking his melatonin and checking out (he was to fly the plane the next day and needed sleep), Patsy doing all the work to finish packing, then coming upon the children in the kitchen eating and drinking, and being angry because surely eating and drinking would promote wetting the bed that night. Perhaps they did scatter off to bed but soon JBr had wet the bed and that's when she lost it.

IIRC didn't Burke make the statement in the police interview that they weren't allowed snacks before bedtime? So this may be why the two kids snuck down to begin with. Maybe mama got mad when they snacked before bedtime due to an increase chance in bed wetting?
MOO

 

[WhoKnowsWhat]

Imagine how it would be if your sister was found killed in your home and your mother was worried about what she would wear to the funeral and what she would dress your sister in for the funeral. Other than that, your sister and what happened to her was not discussed at all. They wouldn't be discussing finding out who killed her, they did not read the autopsy report, they were just moving on with their lives. Interesting for all of them to have such a lack of curiosity about a member of their family.

 

[Luckymanuh]

Are you kidding? PR was worried about her outfit for funeral? Is all this documented somewhere?

 

[invaderzim]

Really, millionaires in a million dollar home and the light switch in a child's room doesn't work? Just like the basement window John kicked in so he could get in the house and it never gets repaired. They were real worried about the security of their children in their home, weren't they?.

And the Alarm System just happened to be off that night. It had to be or else they couldn't blame it on an intruder.

 

[PositiveLight]

As more and more comes to light, my initial thought when I heard about the crime feels even more right. I think BR caused the head injury and his mama covered for him. Their mistake however, was not keeping him in the loop and keeping the story the same. Even slight changes to the story can lead to completely different outcomes.
"moving on with their lives".
WHO THE HELL DOES THIS WHEN THEIR CHILD OR SISTER WAS BRUTALLY MURDERED IN THE BASEMENT OF THEIR HOME BY A SUPPOSED STRANGER?
No one does unless you know there was never a stranger, and the killer and motives were already known.
If Burke knows his parents did it and as an adult doesn't step out and tell the truth, I surely hope America can see through that veil.
Burke is an adult now. He knows he can't be charged by now.
The reason they covered for him THAT night was they didn't KNOW he couldn't be charged. They were running on a quarter of a tank of gas after that busy day. They were exhausted and probably grief stricken that they HAD to cover for their only remaining child and do what they did to cover the crimes including abuse. Mistakes WERE made. They aren't serial killers who have honed their specialty.
Yes they had a lot of references in the home to point them in the right direction for a cover up. BUT They weren't professional killers.
I have only questioned parents who actually ended up being guilty of their child's death. Most grieving parents would do everything in their power to help the police. Most grieving parents would spend what air time they did have trying to find the killer, not defending yourself.
No one can say how a grieving parent SHOULD ACT.
BUT some things remain true with all parents who have murdered children. They do help police. They do use air time to find their child's killer.
I don't know how Beth Holloway dated John honestly. I'd be interested to know why they ended their relationship. Anyone have insight into that?

 

[PositiveLight]

Also curious about what others think the SBTC stands for.
I read on other sites where it is common in yachting and boating to mean "Signed By The Captain".
And in yacht racing it is considered VICTORY if you win.
I thought that was an interesting tidbit I found sleuthing around and felt like sharing it.

Also something I find very funny is that JR has such a repulsion to web sleuths in general. Makes you wonder if they read all of these sites and if they are frightened by what they are reading from all of the communities. That he felt it important to point out and discredit people who question these cases.
Maybe someone somewhere has proposed their theory at some point and they read it and freaked out.
To say that they haven't read all of these different sites and communities would also state they were idiots. I for one do not for one second think any of those family members are not geniuses. To the contrary, I believe they are highly intelligent. So I am sure they keep up with anything regarding this case and what others out there are thinking. Mainly, it would be wise for them TO keep up with the tide and know exactly how John Q Public sees them. It could give a good idea on how a jury would also see this case. Not that it will ever SEE a court room but still. Always good to know thou enemy.

 

[PositiveLight]

And the Alarm System just happened to be off that night. It had to be or else they couldn't blame it on an intruder.

Interestingly, there had been over 100 break-ins in the area where they lived prior to JonBenet's murder. So not turning your alarm on every night and confirming the doors and windows are in good repair and locked would be a fool's choice.
More things that make you go Hmmmmm!:thinking:
Plus you add in it being Christmas time and homes are full of new expensive items which is a thief's dream and it opens your eyes even more.

 

[invaderzim]

IIRC didn't Burke make the statement in the police interview that they weren't allowed snacks before bedtime? So this may be why the two kids snuck down to begin with. Maybe mama got mad when they snacked before bedtime due to an increase chance in bed wetting?
MOO

Good thinking! Yes her finding them there provides more than one reason for her to loose it! But now you say PR/BR DNA was on the pineapple itself? I never heard that. But then why wasn't JB's DNA on it? What about the spoon itself?

 

[PositiveLight]

Good thinking! Yes her finding them there provides more than one reason for her to loose it! But now you say PR/BR DNA was on the pineapple itself? I never heard that. But then why wasn't JB's DNA on it? What about the spoon itself?

I wondered the same exact thing! *going to hunt some answers to this possibly*:lookingitup::lookingitup:

 

[ifuonlyknew]

The books grandma gave (ie Teaching children right from wrong) is also a clue. (source... bonita papers) Something was up and not quite right and grandma knew it. All parents will be in denial. Mine were. I suffered severe physical abuse from a sibling at an early age until my teenage years and each time it was excused as an accident or the sibling "just being a kid". (I was stabbed with a stick in my crib by this sibling when the sibling was just 4 yrs old and I was of course an infant) My sibling wanted me dead.(still does. but after adulthood it becomes character assassination in the extreme form... even going to my neighbors and bosses) Every broken bone and stitch was excused away. I learned quickly never to be alone with this person. Unless you have been raised in a dysfunctional family made that way by a child born with a mental disorder (which I believe B as well as my sibling was), you won't see what I do. If you haven't experienced it, I'm glad you did not live what I have. My theories may seem absurd by many, but I have them. It has been suggested that she was abused in the past, be it "playing doctor" or whatever. B, in my mind (my opinion only), experimented on her and she irritated him at every turn. Be it touching pineapple with poopy fingers or else. In my mind, she screamed (was it touching pineapple or the forceful vaginal jabbing with a paint brush?). A bash on the head with the flashlight to shut her up? Who knows. (doubtful any of us will ever really know) Was he experimenting with or curious about strangulation? (my sibling was obsessed with mummification at that age... you know, all the organs being removed and all). They were boaters and surely he had learned knots by that age. this is just my two cents. My sibling at that age had incredibly strength to do similar if in a "rage".

I would love to find out that it was indeed an intruder. Would love it, but so far, nothing is convincing me. So fire away. Thanks in advance.

All the above is just my opinion and theory.

 

[PositiveLight]

Good thinking! Yes her finding them there provides more than one reason for her to loose it! But now you say PR/BR DNA was on the pineapple itself? I never heard that. But then why wasn't JB's DNA on it? What about the spoon itself?

Here's an interesting page I have found so far.
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682474/First Floor
:lookingitup: back to searching!

 

[MaryMac250]

The books grandma gave (ie Teaching children right from wrong) is also a clue. (source... bonita papers) Something was up and not quite right and grandma knew it. All parents will be in denial. Mine were. I suffered severe physical abuse from a sibling at an early age until my teenage years and each time it was excused as an accident or the sibling "just being a kid". (I was stabbed with a stick in my crib by this sibling when the sibling was just 4 yrs old and I was of course an infant) My sibling wanted me dead.(still does. but after adulthood it becomes character assassination in the extreme form... even going to my neighbors and bosses) Every broken bone and stitch was excused away. I learned quickly never to be alone with this person. Unless you have been raised in a dysfunctional family made that way by a child born with a mental disorder (which I believe B as well as my sibling was), you won't see what I do. If you haven't experienced it, I'm glad you did not live what I have. My theories may seem absurd by many, but I have them. It has been suggested that she was abused in the past, be it "playing doctor" or whatever. B, in my mind (my opinion only), experimented on her and she irritated him at every turn. Be it touching pineapple with poopy fingers or else. In my mind, she screamed (was it touching pineapple or the forceful vaginal jabbing with a paint brush?). A bash on the head with the flashlight to shut her up? Who knows. (doubtful any of us will ever really know) Was he experimenting with or curious about strangulation? (my sibling was obsessed with mummification at that age... you know, all the organs being removed and all). They were boaters and surely he had learned knots by that age. this is just my two cents. My sibling at that age had incredibly strength to do similar if in a "rage".

I would love to find out that it was indeed an intruder. Would love it, but so far, nothing is convincing me. So fire away. Thanks in advance.

All the above is just my opinion and theory.

Your comment about learning knots leads to a persistent question of mine. Who in the household knew how to tie these knots? I can see JR and BR....but PR. Of course the intruder theory provides another possibility.

 

[CorallaroC]

Interestingly, there had been over 100 break-ins in the area where they lived prior to JonBenet's murder. So not turning your alarm on every night and confirming the doors and windows are in good repair and locked would be a fool's choice.
More things that make you go Hmmmmm!:thinking:
Plus you add in it being Christmas time and homes are full of new expensive items which is a thief's dream and it opens your eyes even more.

Hi PositiveLight,
I wish I had a direct quote or source for this, but in one of the JR interviews/or book/or tv appearances he explained his reasons for not having the security alarm turned on. It had to do with the loud siren it produced and also accidental tripping. IIRC he even went so far as to say that JBR! accidentally tripped the alarm once when she was trying to push the button for the garage door opener. But the way I understood it (consider the source of course) is that JR had not been using the house alarm for quite some time - it wasn't "just that night"

Just FWIW. Perhaps solid sources can still be found online about it. Wish I could track it down, but I'm not able to do searching right now, sorry.

 

[PositiveLight]

The books grandma gave (ie Teaching children right from wrong) is also a clue. (source... bonita papers) Something was up and not quite right and grandma knew it. All parents will be in denial. Mine were. I suffered severe physical abuse from a sibling at an early age until my teenage years and each time it was excused as an accident or the sibling "just being a kid". (I was stabbed with a stick in my crib by this sibling when the sibling was just 4 yrs old and I was of course an infant) My sibling wanted me dead.(still does. but after adulthood it becomes character assassination in the extreme form... even going to my neighbors and bosses) Every broken bone and stitch was excused away. I learned quickly never to be alone with this person. Unless you have been raised in a dysfunctional family made that way by a child born with a mental disorder (which I believe B as well as my sibling was), you won't see what I do. If you haven't experienced it, I'm glad you did not live what I have. My theories may seem absurd by many, but I have them. It has been suggested that she was abused in the past, be it "playing doctor" or whatever. B, in my mind (my opinion only), experimented on her and she irritated him at every turn. Be it touching pineapple with poopy fingers or else. In my mind, she screamed (was it touching pineapple or the forceful vaginal jabbing with a paint brush?). A bash on the head with the flashlight to shut her up? Who knows. (doubtful any of us will ever really know) Was he experimenting with or curious about strangulation? (my sibling was obsessed with mummification at that age... you know, all the organs being removed and all). They were boaters and surely he had learned knots by that age. this is just my two cents. My sibling at that age had incredibly strength to do similar if in a "rage".

I would love to find out that it was indeed an intruder. Would love it, but so far, nothing is convincing me. So fire away. Thanks in advance.
All the above is just my opinion and theory.

I am so so sorry you had to grow up in that type of environment!
Thank you so much for your input! It is definitely eye opening! I've always thought BR was capable of the crime. I think he had all the knowledge required to do this crime. I also agree that grandmother knew something was wrong and tried to do something about it.
I read that while PR has her first bout of ovarian cancer, Grandmother slept in JBR's room. Curious. Why sleep in there when there were two other rooms that could have been easily slept in. Maybe she had seen the abuse or JBR had confided in her and she wanted to protect her from her sibling.
You brought up very valid points!
Thank you and welcome to the forums!

 

[PositiveLight]

Hi PositiveLight,
I wish I had a direct quote or source for this, but in one of the JR interviews/or book/or tv appearances he explained his reasons for not having the security alarm turned on. It had to do with the loud siren it produced and also accidental tripping. IIRC he even went so far as to say that JBR! accidentally tripped the alarm once when she was trying to push the button for the garage door opener. But the way I understood it (consider the source of course) is that JR had not been using the house alarm for quite some time - it wasn't "just that night"

Just FWIW. Perhaps solid sources can still be found online about it. Wish I could track it down, but I'm not able to do searching right now, sorry.

Hi there CorallaroC!
I too read or saw the same thing. The only reason I think it is untrue is because JR and PR had a habit of putting a huge distance between them and any evidence. If anything, JBR trying to get outside would be an even bigger reason to have it on.
I actually HAD one installed due to my daughter loving to sneak out and ride her bike. She didn't care if it was night or day. So, this way she could no longer sneak out without me knowing. A loud siren wouldn't deter me from using it either. If anything, she learned immediately not to open any doors because the "cops might come". It helped that I had an uniformed cop friend to drop by and warn her too !
So for me at least, I feel he is full of poo. I said it before and I will say it again.... if the Ramsey's lips are moving they are lying.
Thank you so much for your reply! I'd be interested in finding the source too myself because it is another great example of their story line.

 

[ifuonlyknew]

Thank you for the welcome. I can say this.... grandma might have also been unaware of the seriousness of it. And, I as a child trusted my sibling over and over again. I even put my finger in a lamp socket that had no bulb (live electricity) because I trusted "the game". I was shocked and the sibling laughed. And I without a doubt am sure my parents would have covered anything serious that would have happened due to that "game". Young children trust. It's heartbreaking. Thanks again for the welcome.