Dr. Teresa Sievers - Alternate Motives and Theories (NOT involving MS)

[SoBeCzar]

LE said something about tragic circumstances leading up to the murder. I've wondered if when CWW's wife's daughter was dying, did they somehow blame TS. Not ever saying she did anything wrong. Saying maybe they wanted advice or medication or something she was not willing to do since this wasn't a patient of hers.
I believe Skinner said CWW would fight for a perceived moral wrong.

 

[bvstrish]

LE said something about tragic circumstances leading up to the murder. I've wondered if when CWW's wife's daughter was dying, did they somehow blame TS. Not ever saying she did anything wrong. Saying maybe they wanted advice or medication or something she was not willing to do since this wasn't a patient of hers.
I believe Skinner said CWW would fight for a perceived moral wrong.

I don't remember reading or hearing about LE saying something about tragic circumstances but one of my thoughts not involving MS in TS's murder was TS or MS sold one of their supplements to CWW. Maybe CWW's wife's daughter was using the supplement before she died and CWW and his wife blamed TS for her death. That might be the vendetta Skinner was talking about.

 

[SoBeCzar]

I don't remember reading or hearing about LE saying something about tragic circumstances but one of my thoughts not involving MS in TS's murder was TS or MS sold one of their supplements to CWW. Maybe CWW's wife's daughter was using the supplement before she died and CWW and his wife blamed TS for her death. That might be the vendetta Skinner was talking about.

The tragic circumstances or wording to that effect has been discussed a lot but I do not remember what thread or have a link. Maybe someone else remembers? I can't help but think that the death was the tragic circumstances. The wedding everyone attended {everyone but TS} is not a tragedy.

 

[Lilibet]

Skinner also referred to JR as a "rascal".

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12029654

Kind of an odd term to use for someone accused of a violent murder.

My impression is that Skinner is minimizing the crime, or at least taking a kind and gentle view of the murderers. Can't really blame him... he's close to these people and I'm sure he's horrified and distraught by the accusations.

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BBM

I agree, except that I'm not inclined to cut him any slack about it. I noticed that Skinner actually referred to JR as a "rascal" at least TWO times. I found it offensive at the time and also when I re-read the thread. It angered me that he would use a term that implies that someone is "mischievous" about a person arrested for the murder of his old friend's wife. Yes, the word also has a stronger meaning of "dishonest person or scoundrel" but either way it's a very odd word to use in this situation.

It made me wonder if Skinner knows JR. He may not think he's capable of this murder, and some of us might wonder about that too. But I felt his use of this word trivialized TS and the horror she experienced...sort of like calling an arrested rapist a "rascal"...only worse.
JMO

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rascal

 

[SoBeCzar]

I think CWW brought JR along to inflict pain. He knew JR was a sicko and would do it. This wasn't a simple execution. They could have killed her in a much less heinous way. I think the horrible death was by their choice. Someone was angry.

 

[Satchie]

I think CWW brought JR along to inflict pain. He knew JR was a sicko and would do it. This wasn't a simple execution. They could have killed her in a much less heinous way. I think the horrible death was by their choice. Someone was angry.

I agree, it's the way she was attacked that bothers me. It's hard to explain why. The nastiness is what makes me hope MS is not involved, since inevitably the children will find out and be deeply affected.

 

[creepingskills]

http://www.abc-7.com/story/29893665/arrest-warrant-sought-in-dr-teresa-sievers-murder

JR told his girlfriend were he hid the evidence, including the bloody jumpsuit HE (JR) wore.

I'm going to blame this on bad reporting, can anyone make sense of this? If JR confessed earlier that week and the GF didn't tell LE until they moved in for an arrest, how did she do "the right thing"? Why does the last sentence say the family cannot comment yet but the report quotes a family member commenting?

"When we visited the home, Rodgers' girlfriend’s family explained how they learned about the horrific murder. They say he confessed to the killings earlier this week, and even pointed her to where he hid the evidence.

"Evidently quite a bit of evidence. He brought it all here and threw it away and told Taylor where it was. I think they found the bloody jumpsuit he wore," said Cathy Gaston, a family member.
"I just can't believe it. That my niece was with a man that could do something like this. Her and her children were in that much danger," said Cathy Gaston, a family member.

His girlfriend then told investigators when they moved in for an arrest.

Teresa Sievers' sister, Annie, thanked Rodgers' girlfriend for her role in the investigation, saying she hopes the woman "will know how grateful we all are that she did the right thing."

We reached out to Rodgers' girlfriend. Her family tell us they cannot comment yet."

 

[FelicityLemon]

Skinner also referred to JR as a "rascal".

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12029654

Kind of an odd term to use for someone accused of a violent murder.

My impression is that Skinner is minimizing the crime, or at least taking a kind and gentle view of the murderers. Can't really blame him... he's close to these people and I'm sure he's horrified and distraught by the accusations.

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I think that term was only meant in reference to a caper and not a murder. CWW needed or wanted to take along a buddy, someone who would be up for participating in an illegal activity such as burglary, breaking and entering, but not murder. Rascal would fit that category. :dunno: I don't know anything about skinner, but I seriously seriously doubt he/she would use that term in relation to a murder. Previous to this, as far as we know, JR had never involved in anything violent. As far as we know.

 

[creepingskills]

I think CWW brought JR along to inflict pain. He knew JR was a sicko and would do it. This wasn't a simple execution. They could have killed her in a much less heinous way. I think the horrible death was by their choice. Someone was angry.

The brutality reminds me of the rumor that CWW used a wood chipper (and a hammer) on RB's body after he was murdered.

 

[FelicityLemon]

I'm going to blame this on bad reporting, can anyone make sense of this? If JR confessed earlier that week and the GF didn't tell LE until they moved in for an arrest, how did she do "the right thing"? Why does the last sentence say the family cannot comment yet but the report quotes a family member commenting?

"When we visited the home, Rodgers' girlfriend’s family explained how they learned about the horrific murder. They say he confessed to the killings earlier this week, and even pointed her to where he hid the evidence.

"Evidently quite a bit of evidence. He brought it all here and threw it away and told Taylor where it was. I think they found the bloody jumpsuit he wore," said Cathy Gaston, a family member.
"I just can't believe it. That my niece was with a man that could do something like this. Her and her children were in that much danger," said Cathy Gaston, a family member.

His girlfriend then told investigators when they moved in for an arrest.

Teresa Sievers' sister, Annie, thanked Rodgers' girlfriend for her role in the investigation, saying she hopes the woman "will know how grateful we all are that she did the right thing."

We reached out to Rodgers' girlfriend. Her family tell us they cannot comment yet."

Bad reporting for sure, but if in fact, the gf knew days before the arrest, and she didn't tell LE the second she had a chance to be safe, then to me she did nothing right and deserves ZERO credit.

We may learn differently, but until then I consider her an accessory after the fact if she knew he participated in a murder, had physical evidence to back it up, then she did nothing? Bad. Really bad.

 

[human]

The brutality reminds me of the rumor that CWW used a wood chipper (and a hammer) on RB's body after he was murdered.

Exactly! The guy is a psycopath, Living all of these years even cheerfully, with his new bride.

Maybe he did other murders as well.

 

[Lilibet]

I think that term was only meant in reference to a caper and not a murder. CWW needed or wanted to take along a buddy, someone who would be up for participating in an illegal activity such as burglary, breaking and entering, but not murder. Rascal would fit that category. :dunno: I don't know anything about skinner, but I seriously seriously doubt he/she would use that term in relation to a murder. Previous to this, as far as we know, JR had never involved in anything violent. As far as we know.

I see what you are saying, since Skinner used the term "rascal" while describing the possible scenario before the situation ended in the murder. He also referred to JR as a "kid." He may not have been using the term in relation to the murder. Point taken.

But I remember my shocked reaction at the time he wrote that, and feeling that it was minimizing what ultimately happened. By that time JR had been arrested for murder. I still feel that it was an offensive and weird choice under the tragic circumstances that had ensued, according to his theoretical scenario. At the time Skinner wrote, JR had ceased to be a "rascal" by any definition. But this is JMO and I do understand your point. I don't want to nit-pick Skinner's choice of words any further, as there's nothing to be gained, except a reminder to choose our words carefully.

 

[LvsAMystry]

I see what you are saying, since Skinner used the term "rascal" while describing the possible scenario before the situation ended in the murder. He also referred to JR as a "kid." He may not have been using the term in relation to the murder. Point taken.

But I remember my shocked reaction at the time he wrote that, and feeling that it was minimizing what ultimately happened. By that time JR had been arrested for murder. I still feel that it was an offensive and weird choice under the tragic circumstances that had ensued, according to his theoretical scenario. At the time Skinner wrote, JR had ceased to be a "rascal" by any definition. But this is JMO and I do understand your point. I don't want to nit-pick Skinner's choice of words any further, as there's nothing to be gained, except a reminder to choose our words carefully.

Lilibet I had the same reaction reading it, it infuriated me tbh. Just so you know you weren't alone in that!

I also see Felicitylemon point too, but agree still a poor word choice given that it was known what ended up happening.

 

[creepingskills]

Bad reporting for sure, but if in fact, the gf knew days before the arrest, and she didn't tell LE the second she had a chance to be safe, then to me she did nothing right and deserves ZERO credit.

We may learn differently, but until then I consider her an accessory after the fact if she knew he participated in a murder, had physical evidence to back it up, then she did nothing? Bad. Really bad.

IIRC, SMS said something to the effect that JR's gf did the right thing and AL publicly thanked her. Compare to what has been said about AW in that regard, nothing. Because AL expressed her gratitude, I'm going to give the gf the benefit of the doubt that she did do the 'right thing'. IMO, AL's gratitude could be because the gf provided information that led to the jumpsuit with CWW's DNA, giving LE probable cause to arrest.

JMO, ^ might make sense if JR told his gf that CWW asked him to get rid of evidence (without saying evidence of what) and where he hid said evidence. And again, JMO, but I think JR would tell the gf this because he was afraid of ending up in a wood chipper. Unsurprisingly, the gf is petrified and has (two?) small children to protect so she comes forward with information, location of the evidence.

It would be helpful to know exactly what day JR gave this information to the gf.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

IIRC, SMS said something to the effect that JR's gf did the right thing and AL publicly thanked her. Compare to what has been said about AW in that regard, nothing. Because AL expressed her gratitude, I'm going to give the gf the benefit of the doubt that she did do the 'right thing'. IMO, AL's gratitude could be because the gf provided information that led to the jumpsuit with CWW's DNA, giving LE probable cause to arrest.

JMO, ^ might make sense if JR told his gf that CWW asked him to get rid of evidence (without saying evidence of what) and where he hid said evidence. And again, JMO, but I think JR would tell the gf this because he was afraid of ending up in a wood chipper. Unsurprisingly, the gf is petrified and has (two?) small children to protect so she comes forward with information, location of the evidence.

It would be helpful to know exactly what day JR gave this information to the gf.

Great points, I agree AL's public statement of gratitude is meaningful. There are so many unknowns at this point but she's not sitting behind bars.

Maybe she is an assessory after the fact but I think it's possible she was too scared to talk. We don't know anything about her relationship with JR, is there a history of domestic violence? We also don't know what kind of reputation CWW had in the community or if he had any friends in LE. They live in a small town. Perhaps she wasn't willing to talk until FL LE and the FBI came into the picture. I'm not trying to make excuses for her but I think we should give her the benefit of the doubt.

She could have lawyered-up and not led LE to the evidence. Perhaps if she hadn't done the right thing, CWW and JR would still be walking free.

 

[AZlawyer]

I think we should keep in mind that JR's "confession" to his gf might not have been confession of direct involvement in the murder, but rather confession of having provided material assistance for and hiding evidence of the murder. Perhaps JR was offered $10,000 to drive CWW to Florida, to go into Walmart so CWW wouldn't be on video in Florida (speculating here that CWW isn't on the video) and to get rid of whatever CWW asked him to get rid of. Perhaps he was never even in the house.

 

[Dmacky]

Also if it wasn't for JR's girlfriend, LE most likely would have been in Missouri for only 3 days as planned. She didn't have to "give up" where the evidence was, or for that matter even mention it at all. So I applaud her for that. In the end, she did the right thing, and that's all that matters.

*I was going to us her initials, but they are the same as Teresa's.

 

[wondering25]

It's really difficult to imagine someone like CWW having true emotion for MS, but I can certainly see him protecting his own interests. He was making money as the IT guy for the practice (and possibly even more through illegal activities involving the practice). I don't know how much time he had spent around TS prior to his employment. Perhaps not much, since he lived quite a distance away. Everyone has said Dr. Sievers was forthright and given to colorful and loud verbiage when she felt strongly about something. Neighbors also commented that they frequently heard loud arguing at the Sievers house. Maybe CWW decided TS was not treating MS with proper respect and he was too kind to stand up for himself. Or he thought she was going to divorce MS, take the children, and leave him with with a meager income. If she kicked MS out of her life then CWW would also be out of an income. TS may have even said something to CWW that pi$$ed him off. I could believe that he would come up with a solution for himself and his friend by eliminating TS. We know he headed straight down to FL to help his friend MS after the murder. He and an office associate may have even put their heads together and encouraged MS to keep the practice open - perhaps even volunteering to take over while MS and the children were in mourning. He had open access to the computers and may have even placed the plea on Mark's FB page after LS started it up. That would explain why it disappeared when CWW was arrested. LS has opened her own "practice" and would have undoubtedly been willing to continue her association with MS and the office. CWW could offer to serve as office manager until MS was ready to return. He could have anticipated starting up some new money making scams while MS was grieving. He was a newlywed and may have even offered to move to FL with his wife and run the practice so MS could spend his time taking care of his children. Whatever CWW did, you can count on the fact that it was primarily for his own benefit. If he thought his actions would help out his friend that would be secondary.

Just a scenario to throw out there, if we want to leave MS out of the murder plot. As usual - JMOO

The office was an LLC I believe.. it had an MD. They could not keep that particular entity going as it stood. Even if a new MD came in, he would probably not want to give MS a role in much of anything. Ms could maybe have sold the practice.. but what can u sell without an MD.. a nutritionist? a massage therapist? an energy healer? No one would want to step into a practice that included an unsolved murder.. YIKES!

I dont believe CWW's past and the stuff about Ronnie Bolin has anything to do with the murder of TS. He has been a suspect for 20 years.. naturally LE's interest in him was renewed when he was charged with the murder of TS.. but otherwise.. this was an unsolved case and he may or may not ever be charged with it.. 2 separate things, IMO

CWW having moral outrage over something like MS or TS getting a divorce? Nah.. he might have been hired by MS because there was a divorce a brewin' but he didnt do this without prompting. Let's not forget, more arrests are anticipated.. the next to be arrested will tell us more about what precipitated this murder.. CWW didnt act on his own...imo

Anything I write is just my opinion.

 

[travelbug]

Great post. In my opinion, CWW actually murdered TS. JR saved the bloody jumpsuit for insurance because the jumpsuit had a mixture of TS/CWW's DNA. JR also told his girlfriend because he didn't want to "disappear".

One thing that bothers me about JR's girlfriend: If JR had told me what he had done to get money for the van, I would not have been able to drive it, let alone put my kids in it. I also would have been very afraid for my own safety, and the safety of my kids. I would have had no choice but to go to LE AS SOON as he told me his secret. I applaud her for going to LE, because surely she knew that keeping this secret put her in line for being murdered or "disappeared". IMO, JR is just as dangerous as CWW.

MS may not be involved in his wife's murder. For his non-involvement in the murder, these things would have to be true:

1) CWW would have to conspire with others in her office for some type of financial or romantic purpose without the knowledge of MS. For this theory to be viable, more Florida folks will have to be arrested.

2) CWW would have to conspire with others in Missouri without MS's knowledge. This could involve the suspected murders of RB and other people in Missouri, or some sort of organized criminal activity. For this theory to be viable, more Missouri folks will have to be arrested (other than CWW and JR).

CWW may have decided to take it upon himself to commit this murder, but we have to also remember how the sheriff spoke the case being complicated and having a lot of "connectivity".

Good points, here are a couple of thoughts:
1) If MS is not involved in the murder then it is likely that he also was kept in the dark about any wrongdoing involving the practice. MS could see that a friendship was developing between CWW and a member of the staff, but thought nothing of it since he was "in love and a newlywed" or because he knew CWW was a perpetual "player". I definitely believe there will be another FL business associate and/or competitor arrest regardless of whether MS is involved.
2) I think it's a strong possibility that while hanging out with CWW and/or JR at a bachelor party, etc. MS grumbled about his life with TS without fully realizing how dumb JR was and that he would want to prove what a "big man" he was by taking action. Kind of like a lot of those stupidly popular comedies about young guys going on crime sprees. JR strikes me as exactly that kind of guy.

The one thing that continues to give me pause regarding MS is the payoff to JR. We have been told they kept their cash receipts in a safe instead of in a bank. Somehow I have a difficult time believing that TS would run her practice like that. Perhaps MS deposited checks, but "hid" the cash from TS and put it in the safe as his own secret stash. If there was sufficient cash in a safe to pay JR then CWW would have had to either hack the combination or been told the combination by MS. That's why I'm still straddling the fence. :moo:

 

[travelbug]

Bad reporting for sure, but if in fact, the gf knew days before the arrest, and she didn't tell LE the second she had a chance to be safe, then to me she did nothing right and deserves ZERO credit.

We may learn differently, but until then I consider her an accessory after the fact if she knew he participated in a murder, had physical evidence to back it up, then she did nothing? Bad. Really bad.

I am willing to wait until we hear whether he threatened to harm her and/or her children if she told the police. I would certainly take that threat seriously considering what he had just confessed to doing. She did tell a family member and she may have instructed them to call in a tip.