Drew Peterson's Trial *THIRD WEEK*

[MrsPC]

MrsPC: I was writing while you were posting. I think the waterboarding fits. In the linked interview Greta did with one of the grand jurors that was posted upthread (old interview) that grand juror said there was quite a bit of blood in the tub.

I think she may have been rendered unconscious, placed into the tub, waterboarded, then struck on the head for good measure. There had to have been at least some water in the tub at some point since her fingers were noted to be puckered.

I think it's possible he had her over the tub (with her back against the tub) and possibly slammed her head on the faucet, then waterboarded her til she succumbed and then simply dropped her face down in the tub, where the blood from the head wound then dripped downward.

 

[AbbieNormal]

They found blood on her. If he drowned her after wouldn't the blood have washed away?

Not if he drowned her in the toilet. The cut was on back of her head, that would not have come in contact w/ the water. JMO.

Never thought about waterboarding, maybe he did that but not over the toilet. Who knows??!!!

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm sure there are scores of scenarios in which someone can end up as KS did. We'll never know the sequence of events or exactly what DP did or exactly what he used to create the lacerations or bruises--we only know the outcome.

The jury doesn't need an explanation of exactly how it was done in order to find him guilty: it was murder, she had fluid in her lungs, she drowned, she had bruises one would not obtain from an accidental fall, and he attempted to stage the scene as if she fell and died in the bathtub.

 

[Livingthedream]

I attended the first week of the trial and saw the photos of KS in the tub. There was a LOT of blood streaming down towards the drain. There is no way there should have been that much blood there if she indeed had been in the tub all along.

The water would have washed it down the drain and off her face. Are we allowed to post photos of the crime scene here? It gives a very good indication (although you can not see the blood) of how far her head was from the drain and how long the blood would have had to travel to get to the drain itself. The position of her feet are also telling.

 

[MrsPC]

while the jurors don't need an explanation....Websleuths is a crime forum created for the purpose of dissecting criminal cases...

and I would imagine the jurors are also trying to look at the how & why just as we do as posters...

 

[AbbieNormal]

Cubby,....Just my thought process and massive imagination and too much Law & Order..lol....but what if.....A perp attemping to shove victim's head into the toilet will be met with resistance. The victim is going to put up a fight to remain in a standing position and try to resist being forced to their knees. Possibly putting a free arm up to brace the wall causing abrasion or bruising to the wrist when perp uses his one free hand to grab the wrist and forcing the arm down while keeping his other hand holding the victim by the hair forcing her down. This manipulation would cause a person to bend more at the waist if they were able to lock their knees which would put their head down in almost a semi-upside down position while being forced down into the bowl. During the struggle in trying to get one's head out of the water to keep from drowning it would be possible to hit the back of the head on the back rim of the bowl when jerking to get head up to gasp for air. Also didn't I see some somewhere that there was bruising to the both shins, anterior thigh, and one of her buttocks. The perp is going to have his hands full trying to force the victims head down so he would have to use his legs/knees to force the victim to buckle their legs to get them down to their knees. During this struggle the victim's shins would hit the front side of the bowl pretty hard. The only bruises that are making me scratch my head are the 3 small bruises on her lower abdomen. There is some fixture in that bathroom that she fell on during the struggle. Possibly the water fixture on the side of the tub when he was dumping the body in. Still processing that one. I am going by the original autopsy report concerning the bruising and abrasions found. I would like to believe and hope that during this struggle that Kathleen got at least one good knee to the gnads in on DP. Finally, he had to take her clothes to cover the fact that there was a struggle because had she taken them off before getting into the tub and then simply fallen and bumped her head in the tub her clothes would have been left with no blood, no tears, no signs of a struggle which probably wasn't the case.
Sfnelson67

Something I just remembered- autopsy #1 showed her hand was pruned and IIRC so were her fingers. So for me, there goes the toilet theory. jmo

 

[AbbieNormal]

I attended the first week of the trial and saw the photos of KS in the tub. There was a LOT of blood streaming down towards the drain. There is no way there should have been that much blood there if she indeed had been in the tub all along.

The water would have washed it down the drain and off her face. Are we allowed to post photos of the crime scene here? It gives a very good indication (although you can not see the blood) of how far her head was from the drain and how long the blood would have to travel to get to the drain itself. The position of her feet are also telling.

If you are allowed to post it, I, for one, would love to see that.

 

[Mama-cita]

Observations about the judge

- I don't think the judge follows social media or spends much time on the Interwebs...I think people email him things.

- I think the judge has some kind of prostate issue...he's taking a LOT of breaks ya know...!

- If DP walks this judge may not get reelected when it's time for all of that. Not that he cares...he obviously does not.

He's not elected, he was appointed. His job is safe. Sadly.

 

[Cubby]

Observations about the judge

- I don't think the judge follows social media or spends much time on the Interwebs...I think people email him things.

- I think the judge has some kind of prostate issue...he's taking a LOT of breaks ya know...!

- If DP walks this judge may not get reelected when it's time for all of that. Not that he cares...he obviously does not.

IIRC, someone posted up thread this judge was appointed, not elected.

 

[Cubby]

Cubby,....Just my thought process and massive imagination and too much Law & Order..lol....but what if.....A perp attemping to shove victim's head into the toilet will be met with resistance. The victim is going to put up a fight to remain in a standing position and try to resist being forced to their knees. Possibly putting a free arm up to brace the wall causing abrasion or bruising to the wrist when perp uses his one free hand to grab the wrist and forcing the arm down while keeping his other hand holding the victim by the hair forcing her down. This manipulation would cause a person to bend more at the waist if they were able to lock their knees which would put their head down in almost a semi-upside down position while being forced down into the bowl. During the struggle in trying to get one's head out of the water to keep from drowning it would be possible to hit the back of the head on the back rim of the bowl when jerking to get head up to gasp for air. Also didn't I see some somewhere that there was bruising to the both shins, anterior thigh, and one of her buttocks. The perp is going to have his hands full trying to force the victims head down so he would have to use his legs/knees to force the victim to buckle their legs to get them down to their knees. During this struggle the victim's shins would hit the front side of the bowl pretty hard. The only bruises that are making me scratch my head are the 3 small bruises on her lower abdomen. There is some fixture in that bathroom that she fell on during the struggle. Possibly the water fixture on the side of the tub when he was dumping the body in. Still processing that one. I am going by the original autopsy report concerning the bruising and abrasions found. I would like to believe and hope that during this struggle that Kathleen got at least one good knee to the gnads in on DP. Finally, he had to take her clothes to cover the fact that there was a struggle because had she taken them off before getting into the tub and then simply fallen and bumped her head in the tub her clothes would have been left with no blood, no tears, no signs of a struggle which probably wasn't the case.
Sfnelson67

The one thing that I wonder about with drowning via the toilet, Why no marks then on her forehead or head other than the gash on the back of her head?


I'm confused as heck, other than to say I don't think she got the gash from the fall and I don't think she drowned in the tub. But then, where did she drown? Or did the tub drain so quickly, Drew drowned her in the tub, drained it and then hit her on the head?


I'm very confused with the amount of time she would have bled after her lungs filled with water.

 

[Cubby]

I attended the first week of the trial and saw the photos of KS in the tub. There was a LOT of blood streaming down towards the drain. There is no way there should have been that much blood there if she indeed had been in the tub all along.

The water would have washed it down the drain and off her face. Are we allowed to post photos of the crime scene here? It gives a very good indication (although you can not see the blood) of how far her head was from the drain and how long the blood would have had to travel to get to the drain itself. The position of her feet are also telling.

I think you can post them. Generally if a photo is graphic we add the link to the photo and then add warning, graphic photo at link, or something along those lines, so the reader can choose to open the link or not.


hth

 

[AbbieNormal]

The one thing that I wonder about with drowning via the toilet, Why no marks then on her forehead or head other than the gash on the back of her head?


I'm confused as heck, other than to say I don't think she got the gash from the fall and I don't think she drowned in the tub. But then, where did she drown? Or did the tub drain so quickly, Drew drowned her in the tub, drained it and then hit her on the head?


I'm very confused with the amount of time she would have bled after her lungs filled with water.

IMHO she was hit on the head first then drowned some minutes later. Reason I think this is there was blood matted in her hair, and blood was observed in the tub. A dead person has no blood pressure therefore doesn't bleed like that.

This is a real :waitasec: isn't it?

 

[sfnelson67]

Something I just remembered- autopsy #1 showed her hand was pruned and IIRC so were her fingers. So for me, there goes the toilet theory. jmo

Let me pontificate on this Abbie, I'm still sticking with the toilet theory at this moment. Lemme do some more research and I'll revisit it all 2moro when I'm fresh.


Sfnelson67

 

[AbbieNormal]

Let me pontificate on this Abbie, I'm still sticking with the toilet theory at this moment. Lemme do some more research and I'll revisit it all 2moro when I'm fresh.


Sfnelson67

OK, I can't wait to see what you come up with. I was loving the toilet theory, too.

 

[Livingthedream]

Ok, Cubby and Abbie. The link is below.

Warning: Graphic images

Please note that in the courtroom the blood is shown from a different camera angle but it's blocked out here.

You also must click on the red link after opening the google link to see the picture without obstruction.



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...hBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS409&tbm=isch&um=1&itbs=1

 

[AngelWings444]

If we are going with the toilet theory, Kathleen could have put her hands IN the toilet, bracing herself, trying to push up. Just a thought.

 

[katydid23]

I am wondering if he first attempted to drown her in the toilet, resulting in her passing out, being near death. then as he began to stage the tub scene, she woke up and he had to finish her off in an awkward way, maybe in a semi-filled tub.

 

[FWNana]

Especially when she would be in a most vulnerable position soaking in a bathtub. It doesn't quite add up, does it? It also brings to mind another question - did she engage the lock while sleeping at night immediately before her death? Would anyone know?

:waitasec:

MOO

BBM DP would!

 

[AbbieNormal]

fftobed:

see y'all tomorrow.

abbie

 

[Niner]

How many of those sidebars were the jurors escorted out I wonder. Poor poptarts.

ACK!! :noooo: ullhair: kay:


:lol:

Sure, I can do that - but I'll have to do that on the weekend, as my car is giving me problems and I'm going to have a hectic day tomorrow trying to get it repaired and getting to work!! :banghead:

Sidebar count for Thursday, August 16th

Defense - 5

Prosecutors - 8

Judge - 5

Pop-Tart Jurors - 7

Total Sidebars: 18

fftobed:

:seeya: