Ebola outbreak - general thread #3

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Ummm, this is a very important technicality- he said Liberia, only when asked for his Social Security card, he NEVER used the word Ebola, in fact he denied that. Yes, the hospital did also drop the ball, but had he said "Ebola" or even "Malaria", they would've been running down the halls to get him into isolation. Don't know if there's a Code for that- wouldn't be Code Red or Code Blue, but it would be something!

Since when are ER patients responsible for diagnosing themselves?

The hospital had been trained to be on the alert for patients from certain parts of West Africa presenting flu like symptoms. Not told to listen for the key word Ebola.
 
I find it incredible that the house is temporary. Who will disinfect it when she moves out? Who will want to live in it??? I'd say the house is more stigmatized for a realtor than having to disclose a murder/suicide took place on a property they are selling.

While I agree that some people wouldn't want to live there, the house should not be a problem to disinfect for another family to live in. Honestly, with proper education about the virus and it's ability to live outside the host body there shouldn't be any fear of the property.

How long does Ebola live outside the body?
Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html
I don't think a new family would be moving in within several days of this family moving out.
 
I didn't know Jewish people were contagious.


I understand Elley. That it would be normal for many facing terror, gas chambers, having friends and neighbors rounded up by Gestapo, a brutal dictator, famine, plagues to try to escape whenever possible. In fact a reason WHO is giving in not wanting travel to be restricted (too much) is it's human nature to flee a) to avoid a deadly disease, b) to avoid being confined in a life threatening environment.

WHO is concerned those able to travel out of ebola affected countries will find ways to do so if travel restrictions are too strict. It's not easy to strike a balance between lockdown of neighborhoods and allowing some flow of commerce between countries.
 
More precisely, the doctor dropped the ball. The staff recorded where he had come from, the doctor did not take it into account in the diagnosis.
True, but shouldn't the Triage nurse in the ER caught it first if we're placing blame???
 
Since when are ER patients responsible for diagnosing themselves?

The hospital had been trained to be on the alert for patients from certain parts of West Africa presenting flu like symptoms. Not told to listen for the key word Ebola.
Duncan still lied, even if only by omission. He should have volunteered that he handled a dying woman 3 days earlier. I guarantee that would have gotten their attention!
 
I could go along with that, except he lied to the hospital people so his dx was based on garbage in garbage out.

I disagree. All the info that has been published says that he mentioned that he had just come from West Africa, and the hospital did not take the information into account. Can you please provide a link for your statement?
 
True, but shouldn't the Triage nurse in the ER caught it first if we're placing blame???

Most things are done electronically now. While it is helpful in some regards, sometimes face to face old fashioned "talking" is the better way to go. Triage probably took his history and medical complaints, vital signs etc. This information was entered into his electronic health record. The treating physician is to review this record prior to treating. It appears this was not done.
 
I understand Elley. That it would be normal for many facing terror, gas chambers, having friends and neighbors rounded up by Gestapo, a brutal dictator, famine, plagues to try to escape whenever possible. In fact a reason WHO is giving in not wanting travel to be restricted (too much) is it's human nature to flee a) to avoid a deadly disease, b) to avoid being confined in a life threatening environment.

WHO is concerned those able to travel out of ebola affected countries will find ways to do so if travel restrictions are too strict. It's not easy to strike a balance between lockdown of neighborhoods and allowing some flow of commerce between countries.

I understood Ellie's comment to be sarcasm in response to the OP comparing Ebola to the Holocaust. The only thing comparable is that many lives were lost. Hitler's hatred of Jews should NEVER be compared to an extremely deadly contagious disease. That's a mockery.
Noone should be rewarded for lying that they have Ebola.

There should be travel bans from the affected areas until Ebola is contained. Medical supplies and doctors can be flown in on military transport.
 
Duncan still lied, even if only by omission. He should have volunteered that he handled a dying woman 3 days earlier. I guarantee that would have gotten their attention!

He presented at the hospital on the 25th for the first time, and helped Marthalene on the 15th. I do think the diagnosis would have been helped by this information, too, though, even if he said that he thought it was due to pregnancy complications or malaria.
 
I understood Ellie's comment to be sarcasm in response to the OP comparing Ebola to the Holocaust. The only thing comparable is that many lives were lost. Hitler's hatred of Jews should NEVER be compared to an extremely deadly contagious disease. That's a mockery.
Noone should be rewarded for lying that they have Ebola.
There should be travel bans from the affected areas until Ebola is contained. Medical supplies and doctors can be flown in on military transport.
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I understand the Holocaust was an extreme event like no other. One can compare the threat of death in both cases though. I wouldn't have used that example but I do understand what she meant, that's all.
With that said I don't want people traveling and spreading disease either, that's my human nature.
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I'm having trouble reposting Ellie May's comment. She stated that she feels it's normal, human nature to want to flee and gave Jewish and other affected persons in Germany during WWII as an example. I have no problem with her comment.
 
I heard it last night and I'll admit to still being peeved about it today.I'm just not sure what more we can do for Duncan and his friends/family.
I agree that the medicine that was given was given to those that risked their lives for humanitarian purposes and I'm sure if we had it on hand that it would also be made available to Duncan.
Her tone and her belief that more could and should be done really put my back up and I'm fairly liberal in my thinking and values.
So little regard for others...IMO

There just isn't any of the ZMapp left at this point. All the doses have been exhausted. I'm glad they are trying the other experimental drug, brincidofovir, though.
 
I disagree. All the info that has been published says that he mentioned that he had just come from West Africa, and the hospital did not take the information into account. Can you please provide a link for your statement?

This was the situation on September 16. A day earlier Mr. Duncan had tried to help the daughter of his landlord to the hospital. There are many similarities what Mr. Duncan described, except that he left the word "Ebola" out:

https://news.vice.com/article/we-ar...-the-long-wait-for-ebola-treatment-in-liberia
 
Ok, so lets say he thought Marthalene had malaria. Did he mention THAT to the doctors?

Also I have heard conflicting things whether he told the hospital he was from Liberia or just from Africa, that also would make a difference.

And finally, did he tell them how long he had been in the country? Or that he had come from an area where Ebola was breaking out and killing people?

Did he or anyone with him express any concern about Ebola since they had to have heard of Ebola and how it was in the area he was from?

His family could not have been completely unaware of what Ebola was doing back in their homeland. Even if they were not huge news watchers, surely their ears would perk up at the mention of places from back home if they hear it on the TV, radio, in conversations among people, online, etc. They lived in a huge community of other people from Africa, other immigrants, etc. They had to have heard someone talk about what was going on back in Africa.

When my fiance became suddenly severely ill a week before he died, we went to the Dr and then the ER and in BOTH places we mentioned everything that could be a factor in his sudden alarming symptoms. We told them he was a firefighter, had spent month recovering bodies after Katrina, had been in the contaminate waters during rescues right after the storm, had been in his house and his moms house gutting and tearing down and exposed to mold and God knows what else. We told EVERYTHING we could think of.

(Note, it was many years ago, I have since remarried and am not trying to hijack the tread into expressions of sympathy or such. I mention it because I was in such a situation with a suddenly ill fiance who had been thru some risky stuff lately. We told, we made sure we mentioned it to the intake nurse, the triage nurse, the doctor, etc. When you are in a situation like that, it is no time to by coy or evasive. or downright omit critical information. We pushed and we did not get sent home. He was admitted)
 
Just watching the news.
The good news was the sight of three little girls who had recovered in the treatment centre after receiving supportive care and that one of the workers at the centre found out about a bed becoming available and could let the family at the beginning of the report know - so hopefully their relative will get the care he needs.

Snipped for relevancy.

The news of the girls recovery got me thinking. Once someone has recovered from Ebola, does that make them immune to it?
 
Snipped for relevancy.

The news of the girls recovery got me thinking. Once someone has recovered from Ebola, does that make them immune to it?
Here is a good link for an answer on that. It has a fairly simplified answer as well as a more technical document of research on the subject.

Excellent question and I found this link earlier.
http://www.quora.com/Can-a-person-w...la-again-if-they-survived-the-first-infection

There seems to be some protection, but of course it hasn't been tested in humans for obvious reasons. But research shows that monkeys who were once infected develop a severe disease that is somewhat like the human version. The monkeys that do survive the first infection have shown to be resistant to a repeat infection, but that may be just for a certain period of time as the immunity wanes. Then the protection lowers after a few months.

It's quite possible that humans would be similar in that initial increased immunity but we have no way of knowing the duration as we simply cannot test that on humans.

Research of the experimental medication that was made using serum from people who had ebola and recovered has been very promising so that is a very good sign of a resistance or immunity to ebola after being infected, ill and recovering from it.

BUT ebola has 5 different types and immunity from one does not seem to give you immunity to another. There are 5 different types that have been discovered and named are: Zaire, Bundibugyo, Sudan, Reston and Taï Forest. The first 3 types , (Bundibugyo ebolavirus, Zaire ebolavirus, and Sudan ebolavirus) are associated with the bigger outbreaks in Africa. The current 2014 west African outbreak is a member of the Zaire type.

ETA: also it has been shown that after recovery from ebola that men can still carry the ebola virus in their sperm up to about 80 days (estimates vary from 60-something day to 80-something day or 6 weeks). This means that means sexual transmission — even though someone has been recovered for months — is still possible.
 
From Australia.

We have had a level of preparedness in Australia with purpose built isolation units, and "haemorrhagic fever plans" for years. This current threat though has prompted vigorous reviews of these plans in recent weeks. We need to be capable of looking after such patients expertly and safely. The consequences of a treating healthcare worker in Australia being infected would be devastating.

The Royal Melbourne Hospital and the Royal Children's Hospital are the "designated hospitals" to receive Victorian patients with viral haemorrhagic fevers such as Ebola. The reason for designating a single hospital is for safety - to allow preparation, including the training and equipment of staff, appropriate isolation facilities, and, as laboratory workers handling blood specimens are also at risk, appropriate laboratory capacity.

At the Royal Melbourne Hospital we have refined the clothing (personal protective equipment) staff will wear to ensure all skin is covered, established a buddy system to assist with dressing and undressing, and obtained masks and headgear including "Jupiter hoods" that pump filtered air into a hood over the face for specific procedures and prolonged use. Only experienced staff will be involved in direct patient care in a purpose built environment.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-03/richards-west-not-immune-from-ebola-epidemic/5788606

And apparently they can have test results in 3 hours.
 
An addition/correction to my post above about 5 different types of the virus (Zaire, Bundibugyo, Sudan, Reston and Taï Forest.) This article (from April 2014) indicates that there may be a new one that struck in Guinea.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...owing-guinea-outbreak-caused-new-ebola-strain

"The results of full genetic sequencing suggest that the outbreak in Guinea isn't related to others that have occurred elsewhere in Africa, according to an international team that published its findings online in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM)."

Sorry for any mistakes in any of this. It is a hugely difficult thing to grasp and summarize in just few paragraphs.
 

Thing is, those links state that the healthcare form on leaving Liberia asked if he had been cared for an Ebola patient or touched a body in an affected area. Not whether he had been around any sick people in general. So the posters who are saying that he lied about being around anyone sick are technically wrong, because he wasn't asked that question, according to those links. For him to have outright right lied, he would have had to know or suspect the pregnant lady had Ebola. We can debate whether he knew till the cows come home, but there is no concrete evidence that he knew and so we can still only speculate whether he lied on the healthcare forms in Liberia.
 
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