Ebola outbreak - general thread #8

[lonetraveler]

Just a note to say that I've not seen a post where someone is stating that they "hate" the HCW; maybe I missed it somehow or other. I think it is a bit much to be throwing out the word "hate" because some people do not agree with her decision making. JMO

 

[annahanna]

What I don't understand is how the authorities think they'll be able to enforce a quarantine of any hc worker coming into NJ or NY from an Ebola stricken area. All the hc worker would have to do is fly into another state. Philly Intl Air isn't on that list that banned flights from stricken areas, they said its not much of a concern bc they don't have direct flights between those nations anyway. Well I personally think that raises eyebrows bc all a person would have to do is fly through Brussels - which is actually quite common. So something to think about is the distance between Philly & Newark...it's it that far lol. Any nonsymptomatic or even asymptomatic person could directly fly from Liberia or elsewhere to Brussels, then into Philly, and then cab it to NJ lol. So how would anyone be able to control that?

There are no direct flights from the three impacted countries to any airport in the US. A connection is always required. However it is not possible to fly into any but the 5 designated airports if your trip originated in one of those countries. (Your passport and visa would give you away if you tried to "avoid" the regulations.). Four of the 5 approved airports are located in states that now have quarantine requirements similar to NJ. The only current way to avoid it would be to fly into Washington Dulles. That may or may not hold true in the coming days. (Considering our military is not also subject to quarantine.)

 

[SteveS]

Well that's just it, no one really seems to know 100% how the disease can be transmitted. Some experts are saying that the virus can survive hours on a flat, dry surface and semen infected with the virus can survive for days. There have been so many contradictions between infectious disease experts it is like a multiple choice quiz. I really don't see how anyone can thump their chest and shout that their view is the "one" to believe.

The theory is one thing, but reality is another. In order for that virus to live that long, it has to be in an ideal condition. Nearly freezing, and on just the right surface.

But even if it's alive, is it strong enough to infect anything or anyone? Or will any contact with something living kill it? Those are the real issues. From what we have seen in the cases in the US, the virus has to be super-strong, raging, with fluids everyone, to infect a human.

Maybe the theory is just a scientific version of fear-mongering? All of these one-off studies serve to muddy the waters, but fear-mongering attracts donations, and the attitude of researchers is that no crisis should go to waste. This ebola "crisis" (with two people getting infected in the US, in the history of ever, and yet fear and hysteria everywhere) is no different. So there's that.

 

[SteveS]

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...maine-ebola-quarantine-article-1.1991074Maine

"Gov. Paul LePage has posted a state trooper outside her door with orders to arrest her if she tries to leave."

How? What are they going to do when they arrest her? Take her off to a very public jail and confine her there?

And how is a trooper going to arrest her? Get close to her, and be in personal contact with this person they are saying is a health menace?

Stupidity abounds.

 

[faw720]

How? What are they going to do when they arrest her? Take her off to a very public jail and confine her there?

And how is a trooper going to arrest her? Get close to her, and be in personal contact with this person they are saying is a health menace?

Stupidity abounds.

Thanks for the laugh!!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

There are no direct flights from the three impacted countries to any airport in the US. A connection is always required. However it is not possible to fly into any but the 5 designated airports if your trip originated in one of those countries. (Your passport and visa would give you away if you tried to "avoid" the regulations.). Four of the 5 approved airports are located in states that now have quarantine requirements similar to NJ. The only current way to avoid it would be to fly into Washington Dulles. That may or may not hold true in the coming days. (Considering our military is not also subject to quarantine.)

I know, that's what I just said. Iow, a person could fly or travel into Brussels not showing any signs of illness just like Dustin did, then fly from Brussels into Philly, then travel by taxi or rent a car into Jersey...afterall, it's less than a 1.5 hour drive to North Jersey from Philly Intl. So the point I was attempting to convey is that the quarantine may be mandatory for those flying into NJ after coming in contact with an Ebola stricken person, but there's no way of adhering that policy to every single hc person treating stricken patients overseas, bc how would one know if they travelled another route to reach their home? Ie not traveling directly into NJ? There's ways around it, more than one loophole actually.

ETA - Re my bold, Ohhh I confused myself. You're saying if the flight originated in Liberia, stopover in Brussels, then the person could only fly into one of those 5 listed airports?

 

[Sonya610]

I'm sure Nurse Kaci, the CDC, and the government officials all realize this is not just about whether she stays in her house for the next two weeks, it is about setting precedents as to what happens to the hundreds of volunteers who will follow in the coming months and years.

Not just health care workers in the future, it also impacts border control and which non-citizens can enter and you can be SURE that played a big part in it. That is why she kept saying "human rights" instead of "civil rights".

If HCWs were able to be quarantined on arrival then NEXT it would be foreigners from infected regions and they don't want that!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

The theory is one thing, but reality is another. In order for that virus to live that long, it has to be in an ideal condition. Nearly freezing, and on just the right surface.

But even if it's alive, is it strong enough to infect anything or anyone? Or will any contact with something living kill it? Those are the real issues. From what we have seen in the cases in the US, the virus has to be super-strong, raging, with fluids everyone, to infect a human.

Maybe the theory is just a scientific version of fear-mongering? All of these one-off studies serve to muddy the waters, but fear-mongering attracts donations, and the attitude of researchers is that no crisis should go to waste. This ebola "crisis" (with two people getting infected in the US, in the history of ever, and yet fear and hysteria everywhere) is no different. So there's that.

What I'm most interested in atm is the animals bc of shipping imported & exported goods. A bat or rat could be on board, infected with the disease, then transfer it to our wildlife. Porcupines in Africa have tested positive as carriers, as well as bats, dogs, rats, monkeys, something like a deer (I forget what it's called), pigs, etc. That's their bush food. We have the same type of wildlife and I think of the hunters as well. So I'm curious about it all. Also, heroin & meth is huge here in America. I think of how Aids was transmitted intravenously and it makes me wonder what would happen if this disease was able to spread here. My personal opinion is that a vaccine is needed. Hopefully it's close to fruition.

 

[Sonya610]

Porcupines in Africa have tested positive as carriers, as well as bats, dogs, rats, monkeys, something like a deer (I forget what it's called), pigs, etc.

I don't think any of the above except bats and monkeys have been shown to be "carriers".

The other species may have shown they had antibodies but that doesn't mean they actually HAD an infection much less infected others. Even some humans have anti-bodies but have never been ill from Ebola or transmitted it to others (they think the antibodies came from eating fruit that had bat saliva on it).

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't think any of the above except bats and monkeys have been shown to be "carriers".

The other species may have shown they had antibodies but that doesn't mean they actually HAD an infection much less infected others. Even some humans have anti-bodies but have never been ill from Ebola or transmitted it to others (they think the antibodies came from eating fruit that had bat saliva on it).

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/our-work/medical-issues/ebola

What causes Ebola?

Ebola can be caught from both humans and animals. It is transmitted through close contact with blood, secretions, or other bodily fluids.

Health care workers have frequently been infected while treating Ebola patients. This has occurred through close contact without the use of gloves, masks, or protective goggles.

In areas of Africa, infection has been documented through the handling of infected chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope, and porcupines found dead or ill in the rainforest.

Burials where mourners have direct contact with the deceased can also transmit the virus, whereas transmission through infected semen can occur up to seven weeks after clinical recovery.

 

[SteveS]

they think the antibodies came from eating fruit that had bat saliva on it.

Eating fruit layered with bat saliva. Ewwwwwwwww. So many parts of that thought are making me shudder, even though the result (accidental immunity) is a plus.

 

[SteveS]

In areas of Africa, infection has been documented through the handling of infected chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope, and porcupines found dead or ill in the rainforest.

Sounds like if we find some ill or dead chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope, or porcupines walking across the ocean from Africa to the US, we should probably keep them from coming in. Or at least put them in quarantine where no one can be in contact with them!

 

[faw720]

WFAA (Dallas/Fort Worth station) is reporting that a nurse working with ebola patients flew into Austin, Tx. this morning. I'm not providing a link because the content of the article is not allowed on this thread. She has agreed to a 21 day quarantine.

 

[SStarr33]

Daily Mail has a story that the police chief is refusing to honor the quarantine in Maine. Can't copy the link right now

ETA, Wapo has a story that a constitutional challenge to the quarantine is likely to fail.

 

[annahanna]

ETA - Re my bold, Ohhh I confused myself. You're saying if the flight originated in Liberia, stopover in Brussels, then the person could only fly into one of those 5 listed airports?

Exactly. You can only fly into NY, NJ, Atlanta, Chicago, and Washington. All but Washington Dulles are subject to quarantine restrictions as of this moment.

 

[bwt42]

I assume if the ACLU & the nurse get their way, the government will not be able to quarantine anyone that has not shown symptoms.

 

[nomoresorrow]

How? What are they going to do when they arrest her? Take her off to a very public jail and confine her there?

And how is a trooper going to arrest her? Get close to her, and be in personal contact with this person they are saying is a health menace?

Stupidity abounds.

I think they would know if she's symptomatic as her temp has to be confirmed twice daily if I'm not mistaken, so I think the logic is, should she leave the house - asymptomatic - she will be arrested. However, if they have knowledge that she is symptomatic and attempts to leave the house --- I shudder to think what could happen... That said, I do agree with a mandatory 21-day quarantine for all persons entering the country from Ebola-infected regions IN CASES WHERE they have indeed been in contact with infected persons, HCW's or otherwise. As I stated before, as a Mainer, I am embarrassed by what occurred in Phillips, Maine, whereby a teacher who had been to Dallas for a teacher's conference and was no way at risk for contracting Ebola, yet she is now under quarantine at home. Now that is ridiculous and that is clearly fear-driven, and not common sense driven.

JMO ~

 

[faw720]

Exactly. You can only fly into NY, NJ, Atlanta, Chicago, and Washington. All but Washington Dulles are subject to quarantine restrictions as of this moment.

We just had a nurse working with ebola patients fly into Austin, Tx. this morning. If I were in Africa wanting to come home to Texas under the radar I would fly to Germany. From Frankfurt you can get a non-stop flight to Texas. Easy as pie. I know because I've done it, just not coming from Africa.

 

[SteveS]

We just had a nurse working with ebola patients fly into Austin, Tx. this morning. If I were in Africa wanting to come home to Texas under the radar I would fly to Germany. From Frankfurt you can get a non-stop flight to Texas. Easy as pie. I know because I've done it, just not coming from Africa.

It would be incredibly easy to close that loophole, if they really wanted to. I could do it in 5 minutes or less, easy as pie. The fact that they haven't (and act befuddled by the task and unable to close the door if they wanted to) speaks volumes about the truthfulness and competence (or lack of same) of the ones managing this situation in Washington.

ETA - From a post below, it sounds like this easy-to-close loophole has actually already been closed, or maybe never even existed. Excellent. Good to hear.

 

[wary]

Sounds like if we find some ill or dead chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope, or porcupines walking across the ocean from Africa to the US, we should probably keep them from coming in. Or at least put them in quarantine where no one can be in contact with them!

That's a very good idea. Check this article.

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/29/smuggled-bushmeat-ebolas-back-door-america-265668.html

It looks as though we're talking about tons of meat a month smuggled into this country. I would guess that the smoked or dried meat doesn't pose a serious threat, but any that they can bring in frozen might.

I was first aware of the bushmeat issue long before the current Ebola outbreak, because the local zoo campaigned against it. (Local zoo has issues about eating endangered species, not surprisingly.)