Ebola outbreak - general thread #8

[jjenny]

As well they should. The hysteria is out of control.

It sure is.

"By “him,” the beautician meant Dr. Craig Spencer, who is New York’s first Ebola patient. As Bellevue Hospital Center goes into its seventh day of treating Dr. Spencer, who had worked with Doctors Without Borders in Guinea, some of its employees are feeling stigmatized — a harsh consequence of being the first hospital in the city to deal with an outbreak that has killed about 5,000 people in West Africa, and which is known to kill about half the people who become infected."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/n...atient-face-stigma-outside-hospital.html?_r=0

 

[SteveS]

The arrogance of this nurse is unparalleled.

Whether she's right or wrong in her stance, this part is incredibly true. She conveyed the attitude that she believes she sets the rules, she'll examine the rules that Maine proposes, and then she'll let them know if she agrees and if they're suitable for her.

Someone needs to slap her. Her narcissistic attitude isn't going to win her any support from anyone.

 

[WichitaFalls]

It's going to get ugly. I sure hate to see this. Can't the two parties get together in the spirit of cooperation and figure this out? GAAAAAA!!!!

Maine state police dispatched to back nurse's quarantine

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/29/ebola-nurse-maine/18105327/

 

[RJA00]

They want to "feel" safe. But, on some level, their feeble feelings aren't on her. "Be" safe, and "feel" safe, can be two very different things.

I think that her continued position - and a reasonable one - is that she should not have to cater to IRRATIONAL fears. If people are scared that she's the boogeyman possibly spreading disease, when it's medically proven to be untrue, that's their problem not hers. And she believes it should be the responsibility of the govt officials to educate, rather than pander to the irrational.

So what needs to be ascertained is whether, as she adamantly continues to preach, she truly carries no risk to others, and if so can that continue to be the case without her being locked up. We've been told that there's no risk to others until she shows symptoms, and she's staunchly advocating that as absolute fact...and, if that's accurate, then she indeed is locked up because of others' stupidity feeding fear, and that should be on them not on her.

On the other hand ...is she truly right, or just someone who's over-confident in the inability to transmit the disease to others if she's out-and-about before showing symptoms? There is truth that exists, and the difference matters.

Our civil leaders gotta separate fact from fear, and then have the cojones to follow the facts, educate, and refuse to pander to stupidity (wherever it lies).

I understand its irrational fears, But if she does come down with (and i am praying she does not) all the business and people she will in contact will have to lose work or school time because of the irrational fears. I think she should stay in her house. people are not going to change the way they think. I can't afford to be quarantined if I wind up in the same place as somebody that comes down with it that should of been indoors for 21 days. who is going to pay me if my job wont let me work, because people are afraid. People that stayed here and could not or would not go overseas to help should not be punished by someone who will not stay in doors for 21 days. things change, we had no cases over her when she went over there, now we do

so, she should understand the changes.

 

[WichitaFalls]

I wish the nurse would agree to the 21 day confinement (she doesn't have to agree with it) and use that time to fight for those in West Africa that don't have a voice. She has a huge platform right now. Use it to help those that she wanted to help when she went to WAfrica. Take those days to tell the stories of the individuals she treated, the selfless volunteers, the lack of supplies, the lack of experienced medical workers while in WAfrica. Write about the children whose parents have died and they now have no one and they are shunned. Write their stories, do webcasts, do news interviews, ask for donations to the organizations that can make a difference right now with the funds she could solicit. Use that passion to make things better for others - take one for the team until all the issues surrounding HCW can be figured out in a logical way. Use this time as a continuation of the work that she believed in enough to do when she went to WAfrica. Use this time to fight for the people that die in the street for lack of a bed and the minimal existing health care system. It's possible that using this 21 days to fight for the people of WestAfrica could be of more help than she could have provided had she spent a year as a nurse over there.

Work with public officials to come up with a reasonable way to deal with returning HCW. This is an important cause and one that needs to be worked out now. The way she was handled when she first arrived back to the U.S. was awful. Work on procedures to improve that. Work for the future HCW that are coming home after their missions. Offer her feedback to the agencies trying to figure this out.

I wish she would take this awful set of circumstances and make something good of it. Right or wrong she can't win the fight against the state of Maine.

 

[winnnancy]

They want to "feel" safe. But, on some level, their feeble feelings aren't on her. "Be" safe, and "feel" safe, can be two very different things.

I think that her continued position - and a reasonable one - is that she should not have to cater to IRRATIONAL fears. If people are scared that she's the boogeyman possibly spreading disease, when it's medically proven to be untrue, that's their problem not hers. And she believes it should be the responsibility of the govt officials to educate, rather than pander to the irrational.

So what needs to be ascertained is whether, as she adamantly continues to preach, she truly carries no risk to others, and if so can that continue to be the case without her being locked up. We've been told that there's no risk to others until she shows symptoms, and she's staunchly advocating that as absolute fact...and, if that's accurate, then she indeed is locked up because of others' stupidity feeding fear, and that should be on them not on her.

On the other hand ...is she truly right, or just someone who's over-confident in the inability to transmit the disease to others if she's out-and-about before showing symptoms? There is truth that exists, and the difference matters.

Our civil leaders gotta separate fact from fear, and then have the cojones to follow the facts, educate, and refuse to pander to stupidity (wherever it lies).

In my experience, the worlds of Medicine/Science and Law are polar opposites.
There is no threshold where a switch turns on and magically an individual would be "contagious". It is a continuum of viral load from infection to symptomatic illness. The " truth" will not be black and white. There will be a little individual variability. Test sensitivity has limitations- if it's too early after infection you may have a false negative. The prudent action is quarantine to a point at which a test or disease would indicate definitively whether or not an individual is a threat to public health and safety. Given what we know, what we know we don't know and the entirely unknown lends reasonable doubt to deeming someone safe so very early after being exposed. Those who have not complied with voluntary self quarantine have set the precedent particularly since they have in the end become ill. The two physicians were infact more highly educated medically than the nurse raising the ruckus! Yes, she may be right but, she may be wrong.

There is debate among the scientific community as to what the "truth" is. How exactly do you propose that civil leaders separate fact from fear?

Civil Leaders represent their public of which the nurse is only one citizen. The rights of the individual vs the rights of many.

Finally, there is priorization of importance. " Life, liberty and, pursuit of happiness. Note: Life is first and that applies to all citizens.
It makes sense to protect the right to life of many BEFORE being concerned with the individual nurses pursuit of happiness.




Looking at this solely from an individual civil rights point of view, is a bit like not seeing the forest for the trees! ( unless of course you're a civil rights lawyer paid for by an individual then that's the whole point)

 

[oh_gal]

Ya think? I started watching her interview with Matt Lauer (it's posted on my homepage) and had to turn it off!

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/Fu...43808/Comcast/Today_in_Video/?cid=hero_sf_TIV

You know what I don't get? What would it hurt her, to continue to self-monitor for the remainder of her 21-day period? Not a fan. She acts like a petulant child. And I'm wondering if caring for people is really the best career choice for her, since her actions/attitude don't really bespeak a caring or concerned attitude for anyone who crosses her path.

 

[nrdsb4]

You know what I don't get? What would it hurt her, to continue to self-monitor for the remainder of her 21-day period? Not a fan. She acts like a petulant child. And I'm wondering if caring for people is really the best career choice for her, since her actions/attitude don't really bespeak a caring or concerned attitude for anyone who crosses her path.

She doesn't have a problem with self monitoring. She has a problem with forced quarantine, which is a whole different thing.

I would not have handled this in the way she has. I think WichitaFalls had a much better idea.

I wish the nurse would agree to the 21 day confinement (she doesn't have to agree with it) and use that time to fight for those in West Africa that don't have a voice. She has a huge platform right now. Use it to help those that she wanted to help when she went to WAfrica. Take those days to tell the stories of the individuals she treated, the lack of supplies, the lack of experienced medical workers while in WAfrica. Write their stories, do webcasts, do news interviews, ask for donations to the organizations that can make a difference right now with the funds she could solicit. Use that passion to make things better for others - take one for the team until all the issues surrounding HCW can be figured out in a logical way.

Work with public officials to come up with a reasonable way to deal with returning HCW. This is an important cause and one that needs to be worked out now. The way she was handled when she first arrived back to the U.S. was awful. Work on procedures to improve that. Work for the future HCW that are coming home after their missions.

I wish she would take this awful set of circumstances and make something good of it.

 

[nrdsb4]

.

I am waiting for others to tell us yet AGAIN how saintly and altruistic every health care worker is or else facts may affect our perception of them!

Can you post the quotes of people who have told you "how saintly and altruistic every health care worker is"? I don't recall reading that here.

 

[SuziQ]

'Selfless' Ebola Nurse Kaci is actually utterly selfish. Three weeks in quarantine won’t kill her – and it might just save someone's life

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-t-kill-just-save-s-life.html#ixzz3HYWVWpMe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Sonya610]

Dr Spencer felt ill and had a fever only 6 days after his arrival in the US.

I will say in spite of lying if he did, he did the right thing by reporting illness when it occurred. So it's highly unlikely he harmed anyone.

Uhhh....he didn't have any CHOICE if he wanted medical care! What other options did he have except stay at home and risk a high chance of death.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I wonder if Nurse Kaci's attorney is representing her pro bono? He seems to be enjoying the limelight as much as KH is Wonder how pleased with herself she'll be if he sends her bills? Attorneys don't come cheap - especially when one starts taking on the government. :moo:

 

[winnnancy]

I wonder if Nurse Kaci's attorney is representing her pro bono? He seems to be enjoying the limelight as much as KH is Wonder how pleased with herself she'll be if he sends her bills? Attorneys don't come cheap - especially when one starts taking on the government. :moo:

Perhaps the CDC is covering those? they don't agree with the quarantine and she is still their employee?

 

[LyndyLoo]

Ive been reading page after page of the talk about quarantine of HC workers who have come back from Africa who had worked with Eboli patients...THEN I have to wonder..Why haven't the staff caring for Eboli patients @Emory Hospital get quarantined too..Im SMH at the thought :facepalm:
I can't help but sense the panic and hysteria surrounding quarantining all HC providers that deal with Eboli directly get separated from society for 3 weeks (even tho asymptomatic) is counter-productive.. SO if all staff dealing with Eboli patients get quarantined..WHO's going to be left to care for them?? I speaking of nurses, Doctors, lab techs, housecleaning folks....Man oh man!! :shame:

I do recall a very similar attitude when HIV first got recognized and Society got all in a paranoid state!!!

 

[huckleberryhound]

I'm sure Nurse Kaci, the CDC, and the government officials all realize this is not just about whether she stays in her house for the next two weeks, it is about setting precedents as to what happens to the hundreds of volunteers who will follow in the coming months and years.

 

[wary]

Ive been reading page after page of the talk about quarantine of HC workers who have come back from Africa who had worked with Eboli patients...THEN I have to wonder..Why haven't the staff caring for Eboli patients @Emory Hospital get quarantined too..Im SMH at the thought :facepalm:
I can't help but sense the panic and hysteria surrounding quarantining all HC providers that deal with Eboli directly get separated from society for 3 weeks (even tho asymptomatic) is counter-productive.. SO if all staff dealing with Eboli patients get quarantined..WHO's going to be left to care for them?? I speaking of nurses, Doctors, lab techs, housecleaning folks....Man oh man!! :shame:

I do recall a very similar attitude when HIV first got recognized and Society got all in a paranoid state!!!

Considering that HIV went from zero deaths to 36 million deaths in less than 35 years, and killed 1.6 million people last year, society was very smart to get in a state over it. I just hope that we take this disease seriously enough, with contact tracing, isolation, and quarantine, to keep it from turning into the same sort of persistent problem.

http://www.aids.gov/federal-resources/around-the-world/global-aids-overview/

 

[faw720]

Ive been reading page after page of the talk about quarantine of HC workers who have come back from Africa who had worked with Eboli patients...THEN I have to wonder..Why haven't the staff caring for Eboli patients @Emory Hospital get quarantined too..Im SMH at the thought :facepalm:
I can't help but sense the panic and hysteria surrounding quarantining all HC providers that deal with Eboli directly get separated from society for 3 weeks (even tho asymptomatic) is counter-productive.. SO if all staff dealing with Eboli patients get quarantined..WHO's going to be left to care for them?? I speaking of nurses, Doctors, lab techs, housecleaning folks....Man oh man!! :shame:

I do recall a very similar attitude when HIV first got recognized and Society got all in a paranoid state!!!

I wonder the same thing.

 

[Inthedetails]

There is so much hatred toward this nurse who has no symptoms.

 

[SStarr33]

There is so much hatred toward this nurse who has no symptoms.

Do all scientists agree that you must have symptoms to be contagious?

 

[ButForFortune]

Just watched the interview. IMO the nurse and her attorney are gearing up for a lawsuit and a big payout. "I am the one who is suffering", "my freedom", "my civil rights". And threatening such if the quarantine is not lifted by today?? All with a smile on her face. Really?? What is so tough about staying in your home for the balance of the 21 days. I have no hatred for her, but I do question her true agenda here. (The tent was a bit of a mess, I will admit!)