Ebola outbreak - general thread #8

[jjenny]

Are they really going to consider bringing people with Ebola here to treat? . That's just crazy!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/state-department-plans-to-bring-foreign-ebola-pati/

Germany did it for non-citizens.

 

[jjenny]

Notice how they are not bringing them to the NIH. Wonder why?

NIH only has one bed for Ebola patients.

 

[SStarr33]

NIH only has one bed for Ebola patients.

They have two

 

[Curious Guy]

NIH only has one bed for Ebola patients.

Even more reason to bring non-residents here to treat/

 

[jjenny]

They have two

Per the memo, NIH is willing to take patients. But given the level of panic in the population, I really don't think US will bring in non-citizens.

 

[SteveS]

This discussion is amazing, for lack of a better word. Someone posts an article saying that the benefits of bringing non-US-citizens with ebola to the US to treat had been discussed. And rejected, for whatever reasons. And that there are no plans to even discuss it again.

To quote:

“There is no policy of the U.S. government to allow entry of non-U.S. citizen Ebola-infected to the United States. There is no consideration in the State Department of changing that policy,” the official said.

Another official said the department is considering using American aircraft equipped to handle Ebola cases to transport noncitizens to other countries.

“We have discussed allowing other countries to use our medevac capabilities to evacuate their own citizens to their home countries or third-countries, subject to reimbursement and availability,” the second department official said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ns-to-bring-foreign-ebola-pati/#ixzz3HVRByH4P

And the discussion here ignores all of that, and proceeds as if it was approved, embraced, and is being implemented even as we speak. And raises all kinds of alarms, hysteria, and hand-wringing.

Simply amazing.

 

[SStarr33]

This discussion is amazing, for lack of a better word. Someone posts an article saying that the benefits of bringing non-US-citizens with ebola to the US to treat had been discussed. And rejected, for whatever reasons. And that there are no plans to even discuss it again.

To quote:


And the discussion here ignores all of that, and proceeds as if it was approved, embraced, and is being implemented even as we speak. And raises all kinds of alarms, hysteria, and hand-wringing.

Simply amazing.

It is amazing to me that they would even consider spending close to a million dollars per patient and endanger American lives.

Simply amazing.

 

[SteveS]

It is amazing to me that they would even consider spending close to a million dollars per patient and endanger American lives.

Simply amazing.

If you had read the article, you would see that there are legit reasons that it may have made sense to consider. Quid pro quo stuff, humanitarian thinking, and forward thinking in trying to win the fight against a killer.

Not saying those were better than the reasons to say no. But anyone who sees a problem in discussing the options, before making a decision, leaves me shaking my head. You exaggerate the $500,000 cost, call it a million, and then act like that wasn't part of what they must have weighed (and did you notice that the only option they still are considering at all is working around a revenue neutral setup, so that the ones being helped by our expertise couldn't be free-loading off of us?)

What would be alarming would be to have a government that didn't even examine and discuss things from all angles, and if they're getting heat for having looked closely at the pros and cons, that's bass-ackwards.

And the idea that their discussion somehow was consideration of a plan to "endanger American lives"? Gimme a break.

 

[jjenny]

If you had read the article, you would see that there are legit reasons that it may have made sense to consider. Quid pro quo stuff, humanitarian thinking, and forward thinking in trying to win the fight against a killer.

Not saying those were better than the reasons to say no. But anyone who sees a problem in discussing the options, before making a decision, is nuts. What would be alarming would be to have a government that didn't even examine and discuss things from all angles, and if they're getting heat for having looked closely at the pros and cons, that's bass-ackwards.

And the idea that their discussion somehow was consideration of a plan to "endanger American lives"? Gimme a break.

And obviously they were not considering (if they ever were considering it) bringing in hundreds of patients. Just select few. We don't even have capacity for many patients.
They brought in US citizens that got Ebola and cured all of them so far.
Why would non-citizens be any more endangering than citizens?

 

[SteveS]

And obviously they were not considering (if they ever were considering it) bringing in hundreds of patients. Just select few. We don't even have capacity for many patients.

They brought in US citizens that got Ebola and cured all of them so far. Why would non-citizens be any more endangering than citizens?

Exactly.

As for why they'd even discuss this, I bet the idea was rooted in a quest to get more HCWs to go help. Specifically, the problem of those whose countries are far from Africa (such as Australia), and what if one of their HCWs gets ebola-sick on a volunteer mission and need first-world treatment when their own country is too far away to transport to. In particular, I'd wager this idea arose in relation to getting volunteers authorized from Australia, which has committed zero volunteers to date and has raised this very issue as the obstacle.

Of course, there's also the possibility that it's not a problem of proximity, but rather one of a lack of desire to treat the disease in their own country. That could apply to those HCWs from Australia, but also from other countries as well.

In any event, regardless of the reason, if someone can figure out a solution, it may open the doors to more help.

I'm guessing the US answer, that's taken us to where we are: we just can't bring them here, because our people will panic and fantasize all sorts of boogeymen. But if you'll pay the cost for your people, maybe we can use our equipment to transport to a different first-world country for treatment when needed. Is there a 3rd country to transport to? Let us know if that solves the problem, and we'll see what we can do.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/8-being-monitored-for-ebola-in-michigan/29399380
Report: 8 being monitored for Ebola in Michigan
DETROIT -

Health officials in Michigan are currently monitoring eight people in the state for the deadly Ebola virus, the Detroit News reports.

So far, none have shown symptoms.

The identities and location of the individuals being monitored in Michigan were not released in respect of privacy for the individuals.

 

[CARIIS]

You go girl. THe Rosa Parks of our century. IMO she def has a civil rights case, will win (altthough most of would have gone to the wild blue yonder prior to her victory!) Especially when she never gets sick - thats what the science and emprical data, throughout the globe, for 4 decades has proven.

It also sturck me as ironic that our allies and our contry did not put up this much fuss regarding the endless killing of "our" folks in the never ending wars of ours. One could argue that it does not kill people back home but then we must remember all the terrorsim acts and stuff to come. IMO same stuff, just has different shapes and colors.

Another thing here, we must remeber greed. A lot of money (if congress ever comes back from some of their vacations) is going to be thrown at this. Folks are posturing to get in line for the bucks. And in 5 years we will be holding hearings on the hearing regarding the massive abuse and fraud that happened.

And so it goes.............................

Lawyer for Fort Kent nurse held on Ebola fears says she won’t abide by quarantine

http://bangordailynews.com/2014/10/...kent-nurse-says-she-wont-abide-by-quarantine/

ETA, watch the video. Maine is serious as a heart attack. She might be wishing she stayed in NJ.

 

[CARIIS]

The experts and those with experience, I would think, do not look at it as endangering American lives any where near the extent that the media has played this. Living involves risk, we all get in our cars daily- risk is risk. But. if we look at all the hysteria here on the media, and then for some magical reason, believe that the folks trying to help, living in gross conditions, trying to help people in great anguish, don’t want some assurance, that IF there is an infection they will get treatment and die a miserable death somewhere across the ocean.

Look at,\ it like car insurance. And it will be interesting (and pathetic) to watch the mess created in NY and NJ, as we watch the numbers fall of regular volunteers (IE support staff). With all this media posturing there are going to be a lot of "families"that will not want folks going over there to help. Like families not wanting family members to join the services any more.

It also has similarities with the VA scandal -an expectation that if you do something noble and helpful someone has your back. Its a fair expectation IMO.

I do not think there will be a drop off at the doctor level, those folks are the most educated and knowledgeable and I have not heard of any of them fleeing this "outbreak". 4 humans have died outside of Africa. I can get how the media went outsold in the beginning, but as the story has played out, exactly as experts (even better) outlined from the start – this insistence that its out of control is not backed up by what HAS occurred. And (!) there is a period at the end of last sentence!!

They should be focusing on how well we have done with contact tracing. how exemplary the settings that are experts in the field have performed, It should IMO be a kind of rejoice and exhaling type of experience.

All, thus far, industrialized areas, that are skilled in contact tracking have reined in the illness, taken control, and successfully treated the few that were inflicted.

In fact, we have gotten better and better (usually a phenomenal event)at addressing the situation. Its actually quite peculiar behavior wise in terms of the general public

And it occurred to me this AM that this is going to be like MAL 380- go on forever –meanwhile back at what is really news ISIS …......................................

Hospital stays for patients are getting shorter
HTTP://councilwomen/?refresh=1

A PS here= it seems as if ISIS has started a new fad. Per CNN a son who committed suicide chopped his moms head off before getting himself run over by a train............now those folks ARE something to be concerned about........

Also per cnn federal buildings are getting more security nationwide as a result of Canada . a

It is amazing to me that they would even consider spending close to a million dollars per patient and endanger American lives.

Simply amazing.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

News is saying that Dr. Spencer initially lied about his activity.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-doctor-lied-about-his-nyc-travels-police/

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/8-being-monitored-for-ebola-in-michigan/29399380
Report: 8 being monitored for Ebola in Michigan
DETROIT -

Health officials in Michigan are currently monitoring eight people in the state for the deadly Ebola virus, the Detroit News reports.

So far, none have shown symptoms.

The identities and location of the individuals being monitored in Michigan were not released in respect of privacy for the individuals.

Last week, I heard a radio (WWJ) report about a local urgent care center posting a sign on their door that indicated they did not want people who thought they might have been exposed to Ebola to come to the clinic. Possible patients were urged to visit a local emergency room for treatment. I thought it was unusual because there hadn't been any reports of the illness possibly being in the area. The only mention of Ebola locally was a man from Liberia visiting family in Oak Park (about 10 miles south of where I live in Oakland County). The clinic is just a few miles away. Given the report this morning, the clinic's notice makes sense.

 

[chipmunk]

Are they really going to consider bringing people with Ebola here to treat? . That's just crazy!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/state-department-plans-to-bring-foreign-ebola-pati/

The article said it was considered as a carrot to get more countries on board sending HCWs to W Africa. No we are not, the idea was shelved. Europe would be a preferred location for treatment, probably since discussion is primarily with European countries and Europe is somewhat closer. This wasn't mentioned but I'd imagine some Europeans would prefer care in Europe where more people, including medical staff are multi-lingual.

 

[chipmunk]

News is saying that Dr. Spencer initially lied about his activity.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-doctor-lied-about-his-nyc-travels-police/

I'm not completely sure about what I read in the NY Post. I searched for this info on mainstream news sites and didn't find it. This paper a rag. The headline today is Janitor On School Roof Touches Himself While Peeping on Neighbors. If true he's really setting a bad example to lie about it.

It's possible he just omitted mentioning it at first since he knew his activities were harmless, especially so early into the 21 days. Then when he realized how seriously it was being taken he gave the info. It would be interesting to know how the conversation went down.

 

[Sonya610]

I'm not completely sure about what I read in the NY Post.

Larger MSM sources are also carrying the story so I think it is likely legit. If it is slander then there will probably be lawsuits and they KNOW that.

I am waiting for others to tell us yet AGAIN how saintly and altruistic every health care worker is or else facts may affect our perception of them!

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...-reportedly-lied-about-his-movements-in-city/

 

[Sonya610]

I'm not completely sure about what I read in the NY Post.

Larger MSM sources are also carrying the story so I think it is likely legit. If it is slander then there will probably be lawsuits and they KNOW that.

I am waiting for others to tell us yet AGAIN how saintly and altruistic every health care worker is or else facts may affect our perception of them!

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...-reportedly-lied-about-his-movements-in-city/

 

[chipmunk]

Dr Spencer felt ill and had a fever only 6 days after his arrival in the US. We can't know how many days before returning home a HCW last had contact with an ebola patient. That problem ruins the assumption that it will likely take a while before a HCW would become symptomatic. Plus workers usually don't know when, what event exposed them or what day. Unpredictable.
If many more episodes of irresponsibility/lack of cooperation happen I expect a monitor will have to stand outside the home door. Assuming the news report is true I hope this is a lesson for them so they don't all end up having to stay in a hospital for 21 days.

I never expected to say that but getting sick in just 6 days back changes my view somewhat. Now I'm for clearly enforced, home monitoring. Or I am if this happens again. It's a bit early to judge all by one incident. I will say in spite of lying if he did, he did the right thing by reporting illness when it occurred. So it's highly unlikely he harmed anyone.