Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

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She was declared dead at the scene. The FDNY at the scene confirms that this was a "clean scene," meaning the woman, in her early 40's, died without any bodily fluids leaving her body.


The Department of Health arrived to take blood, then the DOH workers, the ME's office workers, and the firefighters were all decontaminated at the scene.

http://7online.com/health/remains-o...lyn-hair-salon-to-be-tested-for-ebola/401508/
 
The "two officials" story is apparently an attempt to make a big deal out of nothing.

The story uses the words "died mysteriously" as if something was amiss and there's some sort of pattern to investigate. But the "rest of the story" is that he died of natural causes at age 59. I suspect the other death was just as benign, except for the reporter's attempt to make a big deal out of two random deaths.

"The United Nations Mission for Ebola Emergency Response today (yesterday) mourns the passing of Marcel Rudasingwa, Assistant Secretary-General and the Mission's Emergency Crisis Manager in Guinea. A Rwandan national, Rudasingwa passed on suddenly from natural causes," Farhan Haq, the Deputy Spokesman for the UN Secretary-General, told journalists at the UN Headquarters in New York yesterday.

Now we're trying to link an unrelated death in a different country to those two random otherwise-insignificant deaths in Guinea? Sheesh.

im looking at a pattern. Granted, I only know what the media has reported, but what if these deaths were caused by ebola? It appears to me they had no symptoms, which probably means there was not much of the virus in their bodies, which probably means their risk of being contagious was minute. I'm looking at the possibility of ebola attacking the heart of a person with a preexisting heart condition like mitral valve- something that makes the heart more vulnerable. It would be wise to look. JMO

edit- even if the deaths were found to be caused by Ebola, I don't see a need for panic or hysteria. I see body handling precautions being put into place for anyone who was on the watch list that died. I see a warning to volunteers if they have a preexisting heart condition.
 
FREETOWN, Sierra Leone (AP) – A top health official says a seventh doctor in Sierra Leone has died of Ebola.
[h=5][/h]



Dr Moses Kargbo, who had been a retired medical officer in the Ministry of Health, died yesterday at the Hastings Ebola Treatment Centre east of the capital, Freetown, where he had been receiving treaFREETOWN, Sierra Leone (AP) – A top health official says a seventh doctor in Sierra Leone has died of Ebola.
Dr Moses Kargbo, who had been a retired medical officer in the Ministry of Health, died yesterday at the Hastings Ebola Treatment Centre east of the capital, Freetown, where he had been receiving treatment.
- See more at: http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/59524/ebola-claims-doctor#sthash.TuGdO60A.dpuf
 
https://time.com/3583724/meet-americas-top-ebola-doctor/

Health ebola
Meet America’s Top Ebola Doctor

Alexandra Sifferlin @acsifferlin

Nov. 17, 2014

Emory's Dr. Bruce Ribner may be the only man in America who was truly prepared for Ebola

Interesting article, but most interesting to me was.... (I had not seen the case reports below of the patients care for until tonight...whoa that they shared so quicky!)
.Ribner and his team have published every detail of their procedures online,http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/ebola-protocol/ehc-message.html (you have to register to read, but I did and was interesting) as well as what they’ve learned clinically from treating patients. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1409838?query=featured_home&#t=article and appendix http://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa1409838/suppl_file/nejmoa1409838_appendix.pdf

ETA: The clinical case studies talk about their conditions progressing clinically in Liberia prior to coming to Emory. Very interesting reading
"PARTIAL EXCERPT....... On July 23, 2014, he awoke feeling febrile and fatigued; his oral temperature was 37.8°C. He reported his symptoms to colleagues and remained at home. Results on two rapid diagnostic tests for malaria (Standard Diagnostics) were negative. He started empirical malaria treatment with artemether and lumefantrine. Later that day, his oral temperature was 38.6°C, and nausea developed. He was tested for malaria by means of a rapid diagnostic test and for yellow fever, Lassa fever, and EBOV by means of semiquantitative real-time reverse-transcriptase–polymerase-chain-reaction (RT-PCR) assays, all of which were performed at the Liberian National Reference Laboratory. The results for all the tests were negative.

As his fevers continued, intravenous lactated Ringer's solution and empirical antibiotics were administered. On day 4 of the illness, repeat blood testing for malaria, yellow fever, Lassa fever, and EBOV showed positive results for EBOV. On day 6, a petechial rash developed on his arms and chest, his fever spiked at 40.3°C, and he had increasing malaise. Abdominal pain and profuse diarrhea also developed. The rash progressed to a maculopapular rash covering his body from legs to face. He also had an episode of melena and received 1 unit of whole blood. On day 7, he had hematemesis and received another unit of whole blood. Later the same day, he received 1 unit of convalescent whole blood from a patient who had recovered from EBOV. However, his condition continued to worsen. For fever and myalgia, he received 1 g of acetaminophen every 6 hours. He hydrated orally with Tang and Gatorade, despite persistent anorexia. On day 9, he received an intravenous dose of ZMapp, an experimental cocktail of three EBOV glycoprotein-specific monoclonal antibodies (Mapp Biopharmaceutical and LeafBio). The medical team caring for him reported improvements in his vital signs and alertness within 8 hours after the infusion of the monoclonal antibody cocktail. In addition, the extent of the rash decreased, and the patient reported that his energy level had increased to the point that he was able to walk.

On day 10, he was transferred to the Serious Communicable Diseases Unit (SCDU) at Emory...............

virus2.JPG

screenofebola.JPG

RBR above
 
im looking at a pattern. Granted, I only know what the media has reported, but what if these deaths were caused by ebola? It appears to me they had no symptoms, which probably means there was not much of the virus in their bodies, which probably means their risk of being contagious was minute. I'm looking at the possibility of ebola attacking the heart of a person with a preexisting heart condition like mitral valve- something that makes the heart more vulnerable. It would be wise to look. JMO

edit- even if the deaths were found to be caused by Ebola, I don't see a need for panic or hysteria. I see body handling precautions being put into place for anyone who was on the watch list that died. I see a warning to volunteers if they have a preexisting heart condition.

A pattern?

I see
a - a man who died of natural causes in a hotel room in Guinea
b - another man who died of ___ (probably natural causes as well) in Guinea, no report of anything to the contrary
c - a lady who died of a heart attack in the US

There's nothing reported as medically suspicious in any of the 3 deaths. Nor was there anything reported to link any of the 3 to any of the others. So the only way to create a "pattern" is to make up medical diagnoses that don't exist, and then create some sort of link using those falsified diagnoses. IMO that's fabrication, not medical analysis.
 
A pattern?

I see
a - a man who died of natural causes in a hotel room in Guinea
b - another man who died of ___ (probably natural causes as well) in Guinea, no report of anything to the contrary
c - a lady who died of a heart attack in the US

There's nothing reported as medically suspicious in any of the 3 deaths. Nor was there anything reported to link any of the 3 to any of the others. So the only way to create a "pattern" is to make up medical diagnoses that don't exist, and then create some sort of link using those falsified diagnoses. IMO that's fabrication, not medical analysis.

Because something has not been reported does not mean it did not happen. JMO
 
A pattern?

I see
a - a man who died of natural causes in a hotel room in Guinea
b - another man who died of ___ (probably natural causes as well) in Guinea, no report of anything to the contrary
c - a lady who died of a heart attack in the US

There's nothing reported as medically suspicious in any of the 3 deaths. Nor was there anything reported to link any of the 3 to any of the others. So the only way to create a "pattern" is to make up medical diagnoses that don't exist, and then create some sort of link using those falsified diagnoses. IMO that's fabrication, not medical analysis.

I am not a medical professional and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I am honored that when you read my posts you think I must be a professional in the field. But alas, I'm not, so "falsified diagnosis" "medical diagnosis" "medical analysis" would be incorrect to use to respond to my post. (I think my name, Yoda, lulls other posters into believing that I am a master of everything. Nope, Just the force.)

My post was not an absolute. My post was a scenario. I posted it to get feedback from other posters. Is this a possibility? Can ebola cause a quick death in those with preexisting heart conditions? Is there a possibility ebola could have mutated?

If I took everything I read in the media at face value then I probably wouldn't be a member of Websleuths.
 
I dunno. Bleeding from the mouse and nose could be a symptom of Ebola. So how can they say individual at no time showed any symptoms of Ebola?

Is there a report from a reputable source that she was actually bleeding? The police are saying she showed no signs of Ebola. Sounds like some idiot trying to get their 15 minutes of fame by fabricating scare symptoms.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/19/world/asia/india-ebola-semen/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
"According to the ministry and doctors, patients whose blood samples test negative for Ebola after treatment continue to shed the virus in their body fluids, such as urine and semen, for variable periods. A survivor with infected semen can transmit the disease to his sexual partners, they say."

Yes, I was surprised to see in the above article/case study that Brantley appeared to still have a viral load in his urine when he was discharged. Forgot to point that interesting find out for discussion. (see the graphs in post #505). The "standard" for being disease free is two negative BLOOD samples taken at least 24 hours apart in the US, is that not correct? :thinking:
 
I am not a medical professional and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I am honored that when you read my posts you think I must be a professional in the field. But alas, I'm not, so "falsified diagnosis" "medical diagnosis" "medical analysis" would be incorrect to use to respond to my post. (I think my name, Yoda, lulls other posters into believing that I am a master of everything. Nope, Just the force.)

My post was not an absolute. My post was a scenario. I posted it to get feedback from other posters. Is this a possibility? Can ebola cause a quick death in those with preexisting heart conditions? Is there a possibility ebola could have mutated?

If I took everything I read in the media at face value then I probably wouldn't be a member of Websleuths.

In the above article again on case study (post #505) of Brantley, it appeared that the virus, when it affects the electrolytic imbalance, can indeed cause heart issues. Dr. Brantley had days of irregular heart activity, especially because of his low blood calcium. Therefore the Emory case study specifically came to the conclusion that oral K/Ca (potassium/calcium) etc. electrolytes may need to be managed more aggressively. It is indeed known that heart issues can be the terminal factor in Ebola. But that said, the viral load would be detectable and high at that point. If someone did die of heart failure due to Ebola, I don't believe that the medical community at this time would cover up and say that he died ONLY of a heart attack, especially in a member WHO country. The US is a member of WHO and is REQUIRED to report Ebola cases. :moo:
 
I think both the media and people in general confuse the terms "heart attack," "heart failure" and "cardiac arrest," aka "sudden cardiac death."

Typically the word "heart attack" refers to myocardial infarction, usually related to coronary artery disease. This is when plaque obstructs a large artery feeding the heart, causing a section of the heart muscle to die. It's usually something which occurs over a long period of time, though it may appear to happen suddenly. Sometimes a large blood clot could obstruct a coronary artery, causing an MI or "heart attack." I don't know if this commonly occurs with ebola, or even ever.

"Heart failure" typically occurs with age, certain illnesses, etc. The heart loses its pumping ability and finally stops beating. There are usually pretty good warning signs that this is occurring-person isn't healthy one minute, and dead the next.

"Cardiac arrest" can occur suddenly in apparently healthy individuals who have ingested certain drugs, have a congenital disorder which causes a fatal arrhythmia, or it can occur as a result of some serious electrolyte imbalances.

It seems to me that someone with ebola is most likely at risk for cardiac arrest due to the electrolyte imbalances which are largely the result of dehydration (think copius diarrhea and vomiting with ebola), or perhaps at the end, when the hemorrhagic phase manifests, or organ damage occurs at end stage.

It seems HIGHLY unlikely that anyone is walking around with ebola, and having no symptoms other than a sudden nose bleed and sudden cardiac death. They would have been extremely ill prior to those things occurring; the hemorrhagic nature of ebola (which doesn't always happen) is one of the very last manifestations of the disease, IIRC.

If the people referenced have actually had "heart attacks," ebola seems to me to be a next to impossible etiology, given the descriptions noted in those articles. Also, in the article about the woman with a "heart attack" who was bleeding from the "face, nose, and mouth," it states that she was found on the floor in that condition. It never quotes anyone who witnessed the event saying that she was bleeding first, then dropped dead. If she literally dropped dead from cardiac arrest, it seems possible that the bleeding could have been from the fall.

Costa, a man who works in the building next door, said: 'We were in the building and all the sudden the other owner came from the store and he said somebody dropped dead in their store.'
He then said he ran in there to find a woman laying on the floor.
When asked what she was bleeding from, Costa said: 'Face, nose, mouth, everything.'

That's not real convincing of a bleeding event which could have been associated with ebola. And apparently she tested negative for ebola, so I guess the point is moot in her case.



JMO.
 
im looking at a pattern. Granted, I only know what the media has reported, but what if these deaths were caused by ebola? It appears to me they had no symptoms, which probably means there was not much of the virus in their bodies, which probably means their risk of being contagious was minute. I'm looking at the possibility of ebola attacking the heart of a person with a preexisting heart condition like mitral valve- something that makes the heart more vulnerable. It would be wise to look. JMO

edit- even if the deaths were found to be caused by Ebola, I don't see a need for panic or hysteria. I see body handling precautions being put into place for anyone who was on the watch list that died. I see a warning to volunteers if they have a preexisting heart condition.

Hey Yoda. To address your specific question, the virus does not "attack" the heart and cause problems, it is due to the electrolytic imbalance (heart requires specific electrolyte levels to function) that causes the heart problems during the high viral load. It's not like scarlet fever or other things many are familiar with that damage the valves and create improper antigenic responses that *perhaps* you are referring to that can damage the heart long term or cause issues years later when antibodies/tissue antigens cause problems. It is a SHORT TERM issue while the viral load is high and causes electrolytic issues/heart issues for the Ebola virus. Again, the case studies is a good summary/explanation above in posting by Emory. And that is not :moo:, that is fact

What was new to me reading the case studies was how significantly low the platelets were. I was shocked. No wonder the bleeding out. (extremely low platets for patient #2, so much so that they tried to infuse..WITHOUT an immediate increase and response :moo:) So assumption CAN be made :moo: that heart issues (due to imbalance/low electrolytes) and bleeding (low platelet levels...nope.... EXTREMELY low platelet levels) are a result of HIGH viral loads. :moo: someone isn't going to die in that phase without having detectable virus. :moo:

Again, please refer to my posts upthread. Know it is technical for many, but please do a shout out if you have questions.

ETA: Cross posted with nrsb4b... :goodpost:. I shall then perhaps have a siggy of vrlgst@emryb4 :giggle:
 
I think both the media and people in general confuse the terms "heart attack," "heart failure" and "cardiac arrest," aka "sudden cardiac death."

Typically the word "heart attack" refers to myocardial infarction, usually related to coronary artery disease. This is when plaque obstructs a large artery feeding the heart, causing a section of the heart muscle to die. It's usually something which occurs over a long period of time, though it may appear to happen suddenly. Sometimes a large blood clot could obstruct a coronary artery, causing an MI or "heart attack." I don't know if this commonly occurs with ebola, or even ever.

"Heart failure" typically occurs with age, certain illnesses, etc. The heart loses its pumping ability and finally stops beating. There are usually pretty good warning signs that this is occurring-person isn't healthy one minute, and dead the next.

"Cardiac arrest" can occur suddenly in apparently healthy individuals who have ingested certain drugs, have a congenital disorder which causes a fatal arrhythmia, or it can occur as a result of some serious electrolyte imbalances.

It seems to me that someone with ebola is most likely at risk for cardiac arrest due to the electrolyte imbalances which are largely the result of dehydration (think copius diarrhea and vomiting with ebola), or perhaps at the end, when the hemorrhagic phase manifests, or organ damage occurs at end stage.

It seems HIGHLY unlikely that anyone is walking around with ebola, and having no symptoms other than a sudden nose bleed and sudden cardiac death. They would have been extremely ill prior to those things occurring; the hemorrhagic nature of ebola (which doesn't always happen) is one of the very last manifestations of the disease, IIRC.

If the people referenced have actually had "heart attacks," ebola seems to me to be a next to impossible etiology, given the descriptions noted in those articles. Also, in the article about the woman with a "heart attack" who was bleeding from the "face, nose, and mouth," it states that she was found on the floor in that condition. It never quotes anyone who witnessed the event saying that she was bleeding first, then dropped dead. If she literally dropped dead from cardiac arrest, it seems possible that the bleeding could have been from the fall.



That's not real convincing of a bleeding event which could have been associated with ebola. And apparently she tested negative for ebola, so I guess the point is moot in her case.



JMO.

I was like WTH when I read the case studies that they were having 2-4 liters of diarrhea per day....yeppers. I was in the hospital once when I contracted Salmonella ... and when folks die of such, it is due to diarrhea and the electrolytic imbalance. (for folks that don't know... you have diarrhea so much, you are just passing what appears to be copius amounts of what looks like WATER, it's NOT brown or anything..think of it as H20/WATER from your body taken out of all your cells.. which can be self limiting when your body fights it, but deadly if you don't fight it fast enough and it puts your electrolytes outta whack ...it can kill that way just like Ebola.. think of Ebola perhaps in third world countries high mortality rate due to not controlling this well.. The Emory report pretty much underlines that :moo: ... What intrigues me is the low platlets counts... )
 
I was like WTH when I read the case studies that they were having 2-4 liters of diarrhea per day....yeppers. I was in the hospital once when I contracted Salmonella ... and when folks die of such, it is due to diarrhea and the electrolytic imbalance. (for folks that don't know... you have diarrhea so much, you are just passing what appears to be copius amounts of what looks like WATER, it's NOT brown or anything..think of it as H20/WATER from your body taken out of all your cells.. which can be self limiting when your body fights it, but deadly if you don't fight it fast enough and it puts your electrolytes outta whack ...it can kill that way just like Ebola.. think of Ebola perhaps in third world countries high mortality rate due to not controlling this well.. The Emory report pretty much underlines that :moo: ... What intrigues me is the low platlets counts... )

In the 60 minutes segment which highlighted the interviews of the Presby Dallas nurses who took care of Mr. Duncan, the ICU nurse characterized Mr. Duncan's diarrhea as "just...remarkable." Anyone who has worked ICU has seen copious diarrhea. For an experienced ICU nurse to be amazed at the man's diarrhea really underlined to me how serious this disease is in that way. The case studies you linked also reveal how complicated something like that can be to treat properly. It's not just "keep hanging bags of fluid!" The electrolyte replacement must be thoughtful and must accurately replenish specific electrolytes in the proper ratios, which given the continuous diarrhea, would be very challenging indeed.
 
In the 60 minutes segment which highlighted the interviews of the Presby Dallas nurses who took care of Mr. Duncan, the ICU nurse characterized Mr. Duncan's diarrhea as "just...remarkable." Anyone who has worked ICU has seen copious diarrhea. For an experienced ICU nurse to be amazed at the man's diarrhea really underlined to me how serious this disease is in that way. The case studies you linked also reveal how complicated something like that can be to treat properly. It's not just "keep hanging bags of fluid!" The electrolyte replacement must be thoughtful and must accurately replenish specific electrolytes in the proper ratios, which given the continuous diarrhea, would be very challenging indeed.

Yes, as you saw in the graphs in the case studies, they couldn't ever seem to keep up with the output. It appears that not one day did they have more infusion than the output. What a scary situation for the staff that they couldn't do infusions to keep up with the output as the fluids being pushed could cause more problems. I do wish that other sites would publish it all as to their treatment regimes and findings. I am proud of Emory for having done such. Hope it starts a trend as to sharing the information for others to quickly acquire knowledge on the internet and put it to good use as stated here by their CEO putting his voice out to all. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/beating-ebola-through-a-national-plan/2014/10/20/020f13b6-586e-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html Kuddos for them.

Not sure if other saw the posting I did upthread, as to all the things that Emory has put out to the public. Yes, they do have a *PR machine*, but that PR machine IMHO is dedicated to the right thing. Educating others, sharing freely so that others can take their experience, build on it...

@nrds...do you have a link of that? I may have seen but would like to again even if i have. TIA
 

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