Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[MissedItByThatMuch]

Were there drugs or alcohol that could have played a part? Was she taking (or supposed to be taking) any prescription medication and at what levels were they present in her blood and tissue?

This question of drugs versus mental stability has been addressed repeatedly, I'm assuming, by those who have some doubts in a murder, and who may even be leaning toward an accidental death or suicide. HOWEVER, the button-panel evidence is not be be over-looked. The evidence clearly states that she did not want to go anywhere with the elevator. There is no drug or mental-stability issue here that arises from what some view as weird behavior at the buttons, or an inabilty to hit the door-close button. She didn't want to hit that button, period. Once the sleuths agree on this, the next question is: what was she up to putting the elevator on hold? Look at her behavior as she places it on hold. What does it indicate?

The Conducter has arrived to an acknowledgement: Elisa was putting the elevator on hold for her friend (or not so much a friend) somewhere down the hall. But it's the question on her behavior during the second button pressing that comes with an illusive solution. What in tarnation was she doing trying to make the elevator work while pressing the door-hold button again and again? Was she nuts? Was she on drugs? Was she half-blind? None of the above. We've got to get past these ideas.

She had been out of the elevator for quite some time before the second bout with tjhe buttons took place. As she enters the elevator again, one minute after she had pressed the hold-door button, yopu can catch a smile on her face that she did not get rid of quickly enough. She loses the smile as her face is directly toward the camera, but as has face is yet turning from the mirror, there is the sort of smile on the face one has when chatting in fun with a person. You can pause the video just right to see the smile, or you can see it at this webpage:

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html

So there was a person outside the elevator, and she was very comfortable with that person, for she has her hands on her hair for a full 12 seconds (16 seconds youtube time) while looking into the mirror. One could even suggest that this pose was a sexual invitation to her friend, unless it was a woman. With her hands still in her hair, she turns to re-enter the elevator to press the hold-door button once again before the two-minute time limit runs out.

But instead of coming in to simply press the button once, she ACTS like she's trying to get the elevator to go down. She still wants the viewer to believe that she wants to go down. She does a terrible act job because she doesn't even wait for the door to close. No sooner has she pressed all the buttons like a frustrated kitten, that she leaves the elevator...like one who can't wait to get back out to her happy chat. And she even does a little dance once she gets out, with yet another large smile on her face clearly visible.

But what kind of friend was this?

Why would she come into the elevator with an inexplicable wrestle with the buttons, to no avail? If she was acting for the camera, then her friend must have promised that she could see that video, with herself on it, from the video room. In order to get her in that elevator to act out a part, there had to be sufficient cause to convince her to play the part, and I think she felt half foolish playing that part. But the need for this sufficient cause is why I speculated that a production team may have been involved. There are other explanations, I suppose, if anyone cares to dream one up hoping to hit the bulls' eye.

 

[Sillybilly]

If I understand this it mean that Interpol only gets involved if it looks like foul play. The next question is how much evidence, if any, is needed to enlist the help of Interpol?

The RCMP has "the responsibility of operating INTERPOL Ottawa":

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/interpol/index-eng.htm

I'm just thinking it was a given that they would utilize that position to open up that line of communication to ensure they are apprised of LAPD's investigation.

JMO

PS: Note, there are 7 notices that can be issued, one of which is a yellow notice for "Missing Persons". When Interpol was first involved, she was still just a missing person.

 

[MissedItByThatMuch]

Just a quick note on the possibility of Elisa being naive about the movie industry, etc. -- Vancouver is a huge movie industry hub (we're called Hollywood North), and feature films are shooting around here all the time, lots of companies are involved in the film industry, etc. We frequently have Hollywood execs and famous actors/actresses about town, and almost everyone who has lived here for a few years knows someone who has worked in the film industry to some extent or another. I really don't see anyone from Vancouver being star-struck or naive about the movie industry, given how common it is here.

Not sure if that helps or not, but I hope it gives some local culture perspective!

I can see Elisa, an outsider all alone wanting some company with a hotel staffer at the front desk, or a permanent resident at Cecil who knows a staffer, sitting down to talk, going out for a bite, and this "friend", a male, wants to impress her with his exaggerated knowledge or links to the movie industry. This is just one scenario out of a possible dozen that can be given on the spur, the point being that someone, somehow, got her to act a part on the elevator. But it has to be more than just fun and games, in the context of the murder.

Originally Posted by nerdy: "I'm not convinced she was acting, I'm not convinced of anything. She COULD be. She could be on drugs. She could be having a psychotic break. She could be goofing around. I don't have conclusions about her elevator behavior without a context."

I appreciate your comments on the possibility of a snuff film, Nerdy, and I want you to know, I cringe at the thought. Let me know if you have anymore thoughts on this, because when it first dawned on me, I just groaned a groan that indicated to me I really believed it. So that's why I'm stuck on the acting theme.

There is a context by which to make an opinion. She pressed the door-hold button repeatedly; she's in her right mind; she's obviously not seeking to go down the elevator. She's even out in the hall, if that proves she's not wanting to go anywhere. A person who wants to go down doesn't have that attitude. The only reason some think that she's not in her right mind is that her behavior doesn't make sense in the context of a typical elevator event. And it doesn't.

 

[nerdy]

I appreciate your comments on the possibility of a snuff film, Nerdy, and I want you to know, I cringe at the thought. Let me know if you have anymore thoughts on this, because when it first dawned on me, I just groaned a groan that indicated to me I really believed it. So that's why I'm stuck on the acting theme.

I know there's a black market on the "dark side" of the internet for snuff films - the type of sites you have to know someone to know someone to get a URL and a password for kind of thing. Don't run too far with the "film" concept though, because from what I understand (I've thankfully never SEEN one), you're talking a cheap camera on a tripod while the perp does the deed. It's not something you'd have someone willfully act out. It's not theatrical film but rather just a murder done on video. Luka Magnotta did something of the sort.

Even the most inexperienced 20-something is going to know there's no "film" when there's no high-powered lighting, no cabling, no mics, and no respectable cameras. And there's no way that stuff is just out of sight. I've been on my fair share of sets, this is not one.

Could she have been lured into another room and offed on camera and the video put on the black market? Sure, that's a potential motive. Makes as much sense as any other "wrong place wrong time" motive I've seen float around.

 

[MissedItByThatMuch]

Could she have been lured into another room and offed on camera and the video put on the black market? Sure, that's a potential motive. Makes as much sense as any other "wrong place wrong time" motive I've seen float around.

Yes, definitely, in this theory, the set was not likely in the hallway, but happened elsewhere, like in a room on this 14th floor, and the tenant of the room had video set-up that she saw, and he boasted on how he knew his stuff, and asked her if she'd like to do a little something on video. I did not intend to suggest that it necessarily happened in the hallway, though sometimes I've wondered whether it did happen as a bloodless event in the 10 seconds that have been snipped out.

As Arkadiy claimed, there were frames spliced in to cover over / eliminate the original video from 25:04 and 25:14. Plus, the entire 24th minute was missing, and may not have had to do with the camera ceasing to tape. So, that idea of her being murdered in front of the elevator camera can be considered if only to try to eliminate it as a possibility. But who really wants to enage such a sick scene? The point is that someone having access to the hotels' video room would have been involved. Also, the trick to getting a victim on an elevator camera for such a scene is to get her onto the elevator in some way of her own will.

When I was pointing out the huge movie industry in LA, it was also to hint at all sorts of amateur operations that can develop in such a setting. Wikipedia's article on snuff films mentions Charles Manson of the California theater. <P>

I don't know that it matters whether she was intrigued or interested in the serial killings back in the 80's. She doesn't seem like that type. But her coming into contact with groupies of Dark Water is a possibility if the people (i.e. the groupies) at the Cecil knew that they were being secretly honored in the Dark Water movie. Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

[nerdy]

Yes, definitely, in this theory, the set was not likely in the hallway, but happened elsewhere, like in a room on this 14th floor, and the tenant of the room had video set-up that she saw, and he boasted on how he knew his stuff, and asked her if she'd like to do a little something on video. I did not intend to suggest that it necessarily happened in the hallway, though sometimes I've wondered whether it did happen as a bloodless event in the 10 seconds that have been snipped out.

As Arkadiy claimed, there were frames spliced in to cover over / eliminate the original video from 25:04 and 25:14. Plus, the entire 24th minute was missing, and may not have had to do with the camera ceasing to tape. So, that idea of her being murdered in front of the elevator camera can be considered if only to try to eliminate it as a possibility. But who really wants to enage such a sick scene? The point is that someone having access to the hotels' video room would have been involved. Also, the trick to getting a victim on an elevator camera for such a scene is to get her onto the elevator in some way of her own will.

When I was pointing out the huge movie industry in LA, it was also to hint at all sorts of amateur operations that can develop in such a setting. Wikipedia's article on snuff films mentions Charles Manson of the California theater. <P>

I don't know that it matters whether she was intrigued or interested in the serial killings back in the 80's. She doesn't seem like that type. But her coming into contact with groupies of Dark Water is a possibility if the people (i.e. the groupies) at the Cecil knew that they were being secretly honored in the Dark Water movie. Do you understand what I'm saying?

I understand what you're saying, I just think it's very inaccurate. "Dark Water" was written by a Japanese man. It has nothing to do with the Cecil.

 

[SplishSplash]

No tox report yet? How long does that usually take?

 

[noodled1]

No tox report yet? How long does that usually take?

Couple months

 

[Conductor71]

No tox report yet? How long does that usually take?

It was stated 6-8 weeks, I think. Weird thing is EL was buried in early March, so I think that likely they have all the tissue, etc samples they need.

Thought I read the lengthy wait had more to do with scientists writing reports that may depend on what a colleague's finding are.

Wonder if Canadian medical examiner gets involved too?

 

[Conductor71]

The RCMP has "the responsibility of operating INTERPOL Ottawa":

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/interpol/index-eng.htm

I'm just thinking it was a given that they would utilize that position to open up that line of communication to ensure they are apprised of LAPD's investigation.

JMO

PS: Note, there are 7 notices that can be issued, one of which is a yellow notice for "Missing Persons". When Interpol was first involved, she was still just a missing person.

I can see that. My thought was that the LAPD would not likely have become involved at all given that their website doesn't say "call us", rather it does instruct on how to set up a DIY search mission. I figured this would ensure that the LAPD do the bare minimum investigation.

It likely is Interpol is involved in a generic way. Though Consulates generally will get involved in missing persons cases and will initiate contact with local police and see that they do investigate. Was not sure of Interpol vs . Consulate...this clears it up for me.

If someone is simply out of touch, the nearest Canadian government office abroad will ask local officials to help locate the person. However, if someone cannot be located, and there are concerns about his or her well-being, the family will be asked to file a missing person report with the appropriate Canadian police force, which will then use Interpol channels to request the cooperation of foreign police.

Missing Persons

 

[findinganatta]

Snipped

I don't know that it matters whether she was intrigued or interested in the serial killings back in the 80's. She doesn't seem like that type. But her coming into contact with groupies of Dark Water is a possibility if the people (i.e. the groupies) at the Cecil knew that they were being secretly honored in the Dark Water movie. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Personally, I think the theories of either snuff movies or some kind of Dark Water reenactment are so incredibly low that they're only of interest due to their highly sensational and intriguing nature. Not trying to be insulting or anything like that, but it's just that there is no evidence whatsoever to point in that direction... outside of some circumstantial similarities and total speculation.

Also, the existence of snuff films in general is largely a mythological phenomenon perpetuated by movies, urban folklore, etc. In fact, the Luka Magnotta video is an exceedingly rare example of a murder being intentionally perpetrated and filmed for the purpose of others to watch, with no ulterior motive like political agendas or 'terrorist' purposes. It was purely an act of psychopathy. But according to a number of good articles that came out in response to that case, the so-called 'deep web' is not known to have any other videos of this kind. Neither has there been any known videos like this pre-internet, in terms of films created for the purpose of being distributed to others (whether it's for ten strangers or millions).

Nothing about this case indicates such a motive, assuming foul play was involved. Unfortunately, we aren't getting any new information--especially unfortunate for her loved ones--and the elevator video and unusual circumstances surrounding the body's location can easily lead our imaginations to go wild. That's my opinion, anyway

I'm just throwing that out there because as a big fan of the horror genre, I've read various publications and articles over the years that addressed the existence of so-called 'real' snuff films, and it's an accepted (and pretty well established) fact that there is no known snuff videos. The Magnotta video doesn't count because it was placed online to explicitly for Magnotta's personal attention-seeking purposes (just like his kitten killing videos), so it didn't really fit the definition of snuff films... which are videos of people being killed solely for the purpose of entertainment and/or profit, unbeknownst to the public at large, with the participants remaining anonymous. Snuff is defined similarly to child *advertiser censored*, except with murder instead of sexual exploitation of children.

If I'm wrong, or if there is new evidence that a snuff video or videos exist, I'll retract my comments. However, my hope is that won't be proven because I don't even want to believe it exists.

 

[kunibob]

As well, there are a ton of discrepancies between the plot of "Dark Water" and Elisa's death that it seems a tenuous thread to me to begin with. "Dark Water" was about the person's dwelling -- not hotel -- being constantly invaded by this dark water/flooding, invoking fear by showing this evil presence invading the one place a person is supposed to be safe. There are a couple similarities, such as elevators and the water towers, but those are common enough themes in Japanese horror that it seems a superficial relation to me. And finally, Dark Water doesn't have that big of a fanbase, even compared to other Japanese horror movies (and the US version was terrible and did not do very well), so the thought of it having groupies seems a bit unrealistic to me. Again, JMO.

 

[nerdy]

Personally, I think the theories of either snuff movies or some kind of Dark Water reenactment are so incredibly low that they're only of interest due to their highly sensational and intriguing nature. Not trying to be insulting or anything like that, but it's just that there is no evidence whatsoever to point in that direction... outside of some circumstantial similarities and total speculation.

Also, the existence of snuff films in general is largely a mythological phenomenon perpetuated by movies, urban folklore, etc. In fact, the Luka Magnotta video is an exceedingly rare example of a murder being intentionally perpetrated and filmed for the purpose of others to watch, with no ulterior motive like political agendas or 'terrorist' purposes. It was purely an act of psychopathy. But according to a number of good articles that came out in response to that case, the so-called 'deep web' is not known to have any other videos of this kind. Neither has there been any known videos like this pre-internet, in terms of films created for the purpose of being distributed to others (whether it's for ten strangers or millions).

Nothing about this case indicates such a motive, assuming foul play was involved. Unfortunately, we aren't getting any new information--especially unfortunate for her loved ones--and the elevator video and unusual circumstances surrounding the body's location can easily lead our imaginations to go wild. That's my opinion, anyway

I'm just throwing that out there because as a big fan of the horror genre, I've read various publications and articles over the years that addressed the existence of so-called 'real' snuff films, and it's an accepted (and pretty well established) fact that there is no known snuff videos. The Magnotta video doesn't count because it was placed online to explicitly for Magnotta's personal attention-seeking purposes (just like his kitten killing videos), so it didn't really fit the definition of snuff films... which are videos of people being killed solely for the purpose of entertainment and/or profit, unbeknownst to the public at large, with the participants remaining anonymous. Snuff is defined similarly to child *advertiser censored*, except with murder instead of sexual exploitation of children.

If I'm wrong, or if there is new evidence that a snuff video or videos exist, I'll retract my comments. However, my hope is that won't be proven because I don't even want to believe it exists.

Do you by any chance have any of the articles you could link? I totally believe you, I'd just love to read them! I'll give a good google myself.

The "deep web" (aka the "dark side" of the internet) absolutely exists, but it's one of those things that in certain circles gets referred to as "you know, where you can buy illicit drugs, child *advertiser censored*, and snuff films" - but while there are specific names attached for the first two (which it seems prudent not to bother bringing up), it's true I've never heard a rumored outlet or victim named for snuff films outside the Magnotta one. I'd love to know that they're more or less an urban legend!

 

[findinganatta]

Do you by any chance have any of the articles you could link? I totally believe you, I'd just love to read them! I'll give a good google myself.

The "deep web" (aka the "dark side" of the internet) absolutely exists, but it's one of those things that in certain circles gets referred to as "you know, where you can buy illicit drugs, child *advertiser censored*, and snuff films" - but while there are specific names attached for the first two (which it seems prudent not to bother bringing up), it's true I've never heard a rumored outlet or victim named for snuff films outside the Magnotta one. I'd love to know that they're more or less an urban legend!

I'm at work, but yes, I'll try to find some links later. One of the primary articles I remember reading was from Rue Morgue magazine (an excellent horror culture mag) that was about the elusive legend of the snuff film, and how the concept started because of some terrible 1970s no-budget horror films (the kind that would have shown on 42nd St in NYC), and then eventually blossomed into teenage folklore. Even without any solid evidence on way or the other, it makes sense that snuff doesn't really exist... after all, (as you said) when was the last time you even heard of such a case from any time in the history of film/video. (And like I was saying, Magnotta's is not actually a snuff film... it's an attempt to get attention by disturbing the public, as opposed to the creation of entertainment and profit. He was not trying to market something to other creeps... he was trying to creep-out normal people.)

But I'll try to find links and post them later this evening

As for the 'deep web', my understanding is that the vast majority of what is there is pretty innocuous and isn't at all intriguing... just stuff like miles and miles of random coding that doesn't translate into anything illegal/creepy. There is apparently only a very, very small percent that is illegal/creepy material. After all, whenever these child *advertiser censored* rings gets infiltrated and busted, inevitably they are just using some traditional means, like email, encrypted/password-protected servers, etc.

 

[Sillybilly]

I'd love to know that they're more or less an urban legend!

<rsbm>

I think we'd all like that too, nerdy, but i'm not totally convinced they DON'T exist.

If you google <"hand of death" snuff mexico>, or Ottis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas and Hand of Death, there is info, whether to be believed or not. What I find interesting about some of the bile that Toole spewed is that he specifically mentioned taking victims to a ranch near Juarez, Mexico. Hundreds of women have been murdered in and around Juarez. Supposedly Manson and Berkowitz made reference to the "Hand of Death" and there is mention of the Hand of Death training camps. Fact or fiction ... i don't know.

One thing I found curious was Toole's references, i.e. the very specific name Teireina, and his descriptions of the Satanic rituals (whether they are true of not). I dunno, but how does some boor like Toole even come up with the name Teireina? Add to that the FACT of all the murdered women around Juarez (which i'm not sure was even publicized at the time Toole was interviewed), and it makes one go :waitasec:

CAUTION: GROSS AND GRAPHIC CONTENT AT LINK

http://www.whale.to/b/toole.html

There were whispers surrounding the Pickton case about snuff. Again, nothing ever found/proven (if it was investigated to that extent), but given the Pickton boys investments in a film company, again :waitasec: Of all the missing women we have here in Canada, where are the bodies that correspond to the numbers of missing?

When Ulli Lommel came out with the "Killer Pickton" movie (which was banned in Canada), there was apparently investigation as to whether or not the death scenes could have been real. Apparently not, so Ulli's off the hook on that one

IMO, there is a very good chance the industry exists. Did we ever think we'd see human trafficking to the extent it now exists, or kiddie *advertiser censored*, drugs, etc.? Did we ever think we'd see a Magnotta (although supposedly $$ were not involved)? Black market involves anything to bring in a buck, and supply and demand would dictate that any potential "audience" for such crap would likely be very select, very surreptitious, and possibly very rich.

MOO

ETA: Do I think snuff is involved in Elisa's case? NO I DON'T ... but i'd sure like to know more about that attic space and the 15th floor.

 

[nerdy]

<rsbm>

I think we'd all like that too, nerdy, but i'm not totally convinced they DON'T exist.

If you google <"hand of death" snuff mexico>, or Ottis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas and Hand of Death, there is info, whether to be believed or not. What I find interesting about some of the bile that Toole spewed is that he specifically mentioned taking victims to a ranch near Juarez, Mexico. Hundreds of women have been murdered in and around Juarez. Supposedly Manson and Berkowitz made reference to the "Hand of Death" and there is mention of the Hand of Death training camps. Fact or fiction ... i don't know.

One thing I found curious was Toole's references, i.e. the very specific name Teireina, and his descriptions of the Satanic rituals (whether they are true of not). I dunno, but how does some boor like Toole even come up with the name Teireina? Add to that the FACT of all the murdered women around Juarez (which i'm not sure was even publicized at the time Toole was interviewed), and it makes one go :waitasec:

CAUTION: GROSS AND GRAPHIC CONTENT AT LINK

http://www.whale.to/b/toole.html

There were whispers surrounding the Pickton case about snuff. Again, nothing ever found/proven (if it was investigated to that extent), but given the Pickton boys investments in a film company, again :waitasec: Of all the missing women we have here in Canada, where are the bodies that correspond to the numbers of missing?

When Ulli Lommel came out with the "Killer Pickton" movie (which was banned in Canada), there was apparently investigation as to whether or not the death scenes could have been real. Apparently not, so Ulli's off the hook on that one

IMO, there is a very good chance the industry exists. Did we ever think we'd see human trafficking to the extent it now exists, or kiddie *advertiser censored*, drugs, etc.? Did we ever think we'd see a Magnotta (although supposedly $$ were not involved)? Black market involves anything to bring in a buck, and supply and demand would dictate that any potential "audience" for such crap would likely be very select, very surreptitious, and possibly very rich.

MOO

ETA: Do I think snuff is involved in Elisa's case? NO I DON'T ... but i'd sure like to know more about that attic space and the 15th floor.

I've read extensively on the Berkowitz case and SRA itself, and I think there's a lot of misinformation built around some grains of truth. I remember the "hand of death" reference but it's been a few years so I need to refresh my memory.

Trust me I've seen a lot of really awful things (work requires me to go to some u-g-l-y parts and events of the world) and I'm not one to dismiss the more heinous sides of life (or death) very easily. I'm going to read up on all this when I have a chance, too. Thanks!

I'd love to personally go hunt around the top floors of the Cecil, but I'm not doing it alone and I haven't found a friend willing to go yet.

 

[Conductor71]

The news so far as I could find had very few people from the Cecil giving remarks on the Elisa crime. Quotes from two sources staying in the Cecil stand out, especially from the couple staying for eight days. This couple reported that "black" water would come from the taps for a couple of seconds, then clear up. I can understand a continuous flow of darkened / rusty / yellow water, but BLACK for only a couple of seconds is inexplicable...unless the pipes had not been used for a very long time, and some black material like a solute in the pipe water precipitated to the taps. Yet the couple was there for days. Any plumbers like to tackle that?

My thought is that her body had decomposed to the point where she had started to fill up with gases. One common gas in decomposition is Hydrogen Sulphide (Sulfur). Apparently it is not uncommon for some sort of chemical reaction in municipally treated water to cause excess of this gas. It can result in black water upon first turning on the faucet. It has a characteristic "rotten egg" smell. This only happens with hot water supply. My guess is that there was a buildup of hydrogen sulphide due to decomposition and that tipped the levels to result in black water. Chlorine masks the smell. Overly simplified, but more likely imho.

Incidence of black water...

Decomposition (see bloat)

 

[findinganatta]

Whoops. NM

 

[Conductor71]

Also, I never heard anyone else confirm the flooding on Elisa's floor, or the extremely loud banging sound that was reported by that same man, I believe. So again, it's hard to believe certain things when they're only reported by a single person who may not be reliable, or may even have an agenda (like getting on the news, or suing the Cecil--which I think that couple did, if it was the same people I'm thinking of).

My first thought in all this is why didn't they complain of black water in the first place? OR were there reports that complaints of black water occurred along with the pressure issues? IMO, if it didn't concern you enough to complain and/or switch to bottled water then legally you don't have much to go on. Frankly I would be more concerned over the chemical metabolites and antibiotic traces in our drinking water; people are much more likely to become sick from this.

 

[MissedItByThatMuch]

My thought is that her body had decomposed to the point where she had started to fill up with gases. One common gas in decomposition is Hydrogen Sulphide (Sulfur). Apparently it is not uncommon for some sort of chemical reaction in municipally treated water to cause excess of this gas. It can result in black water upon first turning on the faucet. It has a characteristic "rotten egg" smell. This only happens with hot water supply. My guess is that there was a buildup of hydrogen sulphide due to decomposition and that tipped the levels to result in black water. Chlorine masks the smell. Overly simplified, but more likely imho.

Incidence of black water...

Decomposition (see bloat)

When darkened water due to anything in the tank and pipes occurrs, it's expected to fill the entire pipes. In my understanding, and I have quite a bit of college-level chemistry reading, a gas tends to spread out in it's environment. For example, oxygen in water does not settle to the bottom of a body of water, even though oxygen atoms (atomic weight 16) are heavier than water molecules (atomic weight 9). So I'm surprised at your statement: "It can result in black water upon first turning on the faucet." That statement implies a settling of the gas, or the chemical products of the gas.

My point was: if the tank water was darkened by gases of Elisa's decomposition, then these gases should fill the pipes too along with the tank. I don't see that the gases should be expected to settle to the bottom of a tank or a run of pipe. But then perhaps the movie people who named Dark Water knew better.

In a vertical run of pipe, the "bottom" is at a tap. But if the Baugh couple was staying eight days at the room, then I cannot fathom, on a daily basis or less, sufficient settling of this gaseous material at spots adjacent to the taps. That's why I don't believe their story.