Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[yllek]

I agree. How can a judge rule on a gag order without knowing if Ms Raim is for or against it?

We really don't know if this hearing today was an emergency request by Mr. Picerno without advance notice, if it was simply supposed to be an uncontested formality and other issues arose for the judge, etc..

The article says nothing except that a gag order hearing was delayed and will now take place on the same day as the emergency custody hearing, that neither parent attended, and that Ms. Raim's lawyer wasn't present. It doesn't say that she was in contempt of court or failed to appear.

 

[Nixie]

So is the hearing continuing or is Dec 7th just something to do with the gag order? I am confused by the articles. Also if it was something pertaining to the case I would hope both sides were notified at least, maybe they just aren't fighting the gag order......From what has been presented the mom might not want all her info public either so maybe they just didn't go. Seems like someone should have appeared for her, but if they didn't want to fight it maybe they were just leaving it up to JI's attorney. MO isn't the same has FL so they might have more privacy laws.

 

[RANCH]

We really don't know if this hearing today was an emergency request by Mr. Picerno without advance notice, if it was simply supposed to be an uncontested formality and other issues arose for the judge, etc..

The article says nothing except that a gag order hearing was delayed and will now take place on the same day as the emergency custody hearing, that neither parent attended, and that Ms. Raim's lawyer wasn't present. It doesn't say that she was in contempt of court or failed to appear.

You make perfect sense. That's why I say its a case of poor reporting. Its a theme that continues with the press in this case.

 

[vlpate]

She didn't admit to a black out - she said it was a possibility. Once her head hit the pillow and she passed out, whether from alcohol or exhaustion she had no control over someone entering her home and taking Lisa. There are millions of people who do not have a license or vehicle and could not take their child to hospital regardless of drinking. If a child is uncomfortable sleeping in a dirty diaper, chances are they will wake up crying - no one can say whether, if this could have happened, Deb wouldn't have heard her. Trust me when I tell you that a drunk parent can and does take care of their children when necessary. No one said she couldn't take care of her children, ever.

What's her excuse for not being there for Lisa for the past two months?

 

[yllek]

Disrespect to the court is not taken lightly. Mr Irwin's attorney was there; Ms. R's attorney didn't show up. That is disrespect to the court. Someone else/another case could have used that time; it may have been taken by someone who had an issue, not someone looking for 15. When a court summons you, even for an administartive hearing, you go. it's not rocket science. Neither RR or her attorney showed.

Understood. As I posted upthread, if she failed to show up as scheduled, it is a mark against her. If you provide a link to support your statement that Ms. Raim's attorney did not show up as scheduled, we can put this to rest.

For now, your statement is unsupported and just an assumption/opinion. Because someone didn't appear doesn't mean they were scheduled/required to appear in the first place. The only news that I've seen is the link posted upthread. It only indicates that she didn't appear, which is not the same as stating that she direspected the court and failed to appear as scheduled. No rocket science in understanding that concept.

JMO...

 

[Minette]

This case is still not on Casenet, for whatever reason.

 

[Sparklin]

What's her excuse for not being there for Lisa for the past two months?

I don't know that she hasn't been.

 

[yllek]

This is a different article about the same gag order hearing delay. It is posted on the website of another NBC affiliate. This article specifically mentions that Jeremy Irwin did not appear regarding the order in his upcoming custody battle for his son. It mentions nothing about Ms. Raim not appearing, nor her attorney. It mentions nothing about Mr. Picerno being in the court.

Just as I am not assuming that Ms. Raim's attorney disrespected the court and failed to keep a scheduled commitment because she did not appear today, I am not assuming that Jeremy Irwin disrespected the court because he is the only one mentioned as not appearing in this particular article. Exact same phrasing used in regards to different players, with a different slant/focus by two different affiliates.


http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...stody-battle-hearing-delayed-until-december-7

LIBERTY, Mo. - A hearing regarding a gag order in the custody battle over one of Lisa Irwin’s half-brothers has been delayed until Dec. 7.

Jeremy Irwin, baby Lisa's father, did not appear for the 9 a.m. hearing Tuesday regarding the order in the court battle for custody of his son, (name of minor deleted).

 

[highflyer]

It was DB who spent the last six years of her life not the birth mother who took care of him. She has only seen him once when she ran into them out shopping or something. What does that tell you? The birth mother doesn't even know this child but more importantly he doesn't know her.

Would still like to find out where the six years timeline info is. Posted earlier one of the articles that says DB and her Husband were separated in 2008. Could not find anything that said JI and DB had been together longer. Anybody?

 

[RANCH]

This is a different article about the same gag order hearing delay. It is posted on the website of another NBC affiliate. This article specifically mentions that Jeremy Irwin did not appear regarding the order in his upcoming custody battle for his son. It mentions nothing about Ms. Raim not appearing, nor her attorney. It mentions nothing about Mr. Picerno being in the court.

Just as I am not assuming that Ms. Raim's attorney disrespected the court and failed to keep a scheduled commitment because she did not appear today, I am not assuming that Jeremy Irwin disrespected the court because he is the only one mentioned as not appearing in this particular article. Exact same phrasing used in regards to different players, with a different slant/focus by two different affiliates.


http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...stody-battle-hearing-delayed-until-december-7

LIBERTY, Mo. - A hearing regarding a gag order in the custody battle over one of Lisa Irwin’s half-brothers has been delayed until Dec. 7.

Jeremy Irwin, baby Lisa's father, did not appear for the 9 a.m. hearing Tuesday regarding the order in the court battle for custody of his son, (name of minor deleted).

Thanks yllek. Another example of poor reporting. In this case, not only is there little information, but the writer makes it appear that Jeremy was the only person missing at the hearing. Pathetic.

 

[In da Middle]

This is a different article about the same gag order hearing delay. It is posted on the website of another NBC affiliate. This article specifically mentions that Jeremy Irwin did not appear regarding the order in his upcoming custody battle for his son. It mentions nothing about Ms. Raim not appearing, nor her attorney. It mentions nothing about Mr. Picerno being in the court.

Just as I am not assuming that Ms. Raim's attorney disrespected the court and failed to keep a scheduled commitment because she did not appear today, I am not assuming that Jeremy Irwin disrespected the court because he is the only one mentioned as not appearing in this particular article. Exact same phrasing used in regards to different players, with a different slant/focus by two different affiliates.


http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-half-brother's-custody-battle-hearing-delayed-until-december-7

LIBERTY, Mo. - A hearing regarding a gag order in the custody battle over one of Lisa Irwin’s half-brothers has been delayed until Dec. 7.

Jeremy Irwin, baby Lisa's father, did not appear for the 9 a.m. hearing Tuesday regarding the order in the court battle for custody of his son, (name of minor deleted).

I am not saying it was wrong for the parents not to show at this one, but if the mom is saying this is an emergency, wouldn't it be wise for her representation to at least show face and look concerned? This does not bode to the emergency part of this case at all, nor does waiting 6 full weeks after the fact to even file.

This states Picerno WAS there

The attorney for Raim did not appear for the hearing. Irwin was represented by Kansas City attorney John Picerno.

from link posted above.

 

[yllek]

I am not saying it was wrong for the parents not to show at this one, but if the mom is saying this is an emergency, wouldn't it be wise for her representation to at least show face and look concerned? This does not bode to the emergency part of this case at all, nor does waiting 6 full weeks after the fact to even file.

This states Picerno WAS there

from link posted above.

My point is that the link to the story I posted mentions nothing about anyone not appearing except for Jeremy. The other link posted further upthread focuses on Irwin's attorney appearing, but not Raim's. Truth is, we don't know if the court date for custody was established today (it was reported by media for the first time today, way upthread), thus prompting Picerno to rush to court and request an emergency gag order hearing. I can see why he would do so.

There is nothing to indicate that either parent or Ms. Raim's attorney was aware, involved or required to be there. The gag order and the custody are different issues entirely. So, no, I cannot say that the gag order is as important to Raim as custody - I don't know and would hope not. I cannot say that there was any advance notice by Picerno or the court (or that any would have been required). I think people are making assumptions about a simple statement that someone didn't appear = they were aware and not appearing at a gag order motion equates to lack of concern and urgency in regards to custody. IMO, there is no evidence whatsoever in either article to support that assumption ... I think we need to be careful not to read way more into very sparse stories, especially with the media in this case.

This is MO, and I think the subject is exhausted. I am okay to respectfullly agree to disagree.

 

[In da Middle]

My point is that the link to the story I posted mentions nothing about anyone not appearing except for Jeremy. The other link posted further upthread focuses on Irwin's attorney appearing, but not Raim's. Truth is, we don't know if the court date for custody was established today (it was reported by media for the first time today, way upthread), thus prompting Picerno to rush to court and request an emergency gag order hearing. I can see why he would do so.

There is nothing to indicate that either parent or Ms. Raim's attorney was involved or required to be there. The gag order and the custody are different issues entirely. I see nothing in either article confirming that anyone was scheduled or required to be there with Picerno today. So, no, I cannot say that the gag order is as important to Raim as custody - I don't know and would hope not. I cannot say that there was any advance notice by Picerno or the court (or that any would have been required). I think people are making assumptions about a simple statement that someone didn't appear = they were aware and not appearing at a gag order motion equates to lack of concern and urgency in regards to custody. IMO, there is no evidence whatsoever in either article to support that assumption ... I think we need to be careful not to read way more into very sparse stories, especially with the media in this case.

This is MO, and I think the subject is exhausted. I am okay to respectfullly agree to disagree.

I totally agree with the bad media stories, but if the media was aware enough of this then I think I can assume it had advance notice. I don't care if her side wasn't 'required' to be there. They filed this "emergency" custody hearing a full 6 weeks after a danger could have been posed upon the child and that was a full 6 years after she last saw him. My point is that there sure doesn't seem to be any "emergency" on her part at all. People are screaming for the parents to go to LE AGAIN to be interviewed, but think this lady has a pass at not even going to court for a custody hearing and then not even seeing her son for 6 full years. Then waits all this time to even think he is in a possible bad situation. I could have given her a pass if this was filed within the first week or two as seeing there was a reason, but not after 6 weeks.

 

[RANCH]

My point is that the link to the story I posted mentions nothing about anyone not appearing except for Jeremy. The other link posted further upthread focuses on Irwin's attorney appearing, but not Raim's. Truth is, we don't know if the court date for custody was established today (it was reported by media for the first time today, way upthread), thus prompting Picerno to rush to court and request an emergency gag order hearing. I can see why he would do so.

There is nothing to indicate that either parent or Ms. Raim's attorney was aware, involved or required to be there. The gag order and the custody are different issues entirely. So, no, I cannot say that the gag order is as important to Raim as custody - I don't know and would hope not. I cannot say that there was any advance notice by Picerno or the court (or that any would have been required). I think people are making assumptions about a simple statement that someone didn't appear = they were aware and not appearing at a gag order motion equates to lack of concern and urgency in regards to custody. IMO, there is no evidence whatsoever in either article to support that assumption ... I think we need to be careful not to read way more into very sparse stories, especially with the media in this case.

This is MO, and I think the subject is exhausted. I am okay to respectfullly agree to disagree.

BBM
All I can say is if Picerno went to the courthouse to request an emergency gag order hearing, the reporting is even worse than I could imagine. If it was only a request for a hearing and not an actual hearing , then why report on who did or didn't show up?

 

[yllek]

I totally agree with the bad media stories, but if the media was aware enough of this then I think I can assume it had advance notice. I don't care if her side wasn't 'required' to be there. They filed this "emergency" custody hearing a full 6 weeks after a danger could have been posed upon the child and that was a full 6 years after she last saw him. My point is that there sure doesn't seem to be any "emergency" on her part at all. People are screaming for the parents to go to LE AGAIN to be interviewed, but think this lady has a pass at not even going to court for a custody hearing and then not even seeing her son for 6 full years. Then waits all this time to even think he is in a possible bad situation. I could have given her a pass if this was filed within the first week or two as seeing there was a reason, but not after 6 weeks.

The custody hearing was not delayed by the delay in the gag order hearing. They will take place the same day, according to today's news. No real or perceived urgency in custody matters was affected by today's gag order events. So, I understand that you feel strongly against Ms. Raim's filing for emergency custody and waiting 6 weeks to do so. I understand that you think lack of representation at today's gag order motion reflects lack of urgency about custody for Ms. Raim. I can't draw that link at all. You think a link is apparent. No harm, no foul. Just a respectful difference of opinion. I don't feel the sparse paragraphs about today's hearing provide enough information for me to draw a negative or positive inference about any of the parties. JMO.:blowkiss:

Regarding who wasn't present for the gag order hearing, we don't know whether the media got news today (and then published it) about the docket date for the custody hearing issue. If they did and contacted Picerno about interest in covering it, it is very possible that he rushed to court to file a gag order petition and request an immediate hearing. We just don't know; we need more information.

 

[stephen40]

I don't know that she hasn't been.

Is DB looking for Lisa? NO

Is she talking to LE seperately from her bf with her lawyer present? NO

Does DB want prayer vigils in front of her house stopped? YES

Probably makes it a little uncomfortable drinking wine on the stoop when people are praying for HER MISSING BABY GIRL. :maddening:

 

[In da Middle]

I guess my problem isn't really about what did or didn't happen today. My problem is based on the waiting 6 weeks to perceive an emergency after waiting 6 entire long years of not even to seem to bother to see him. I could feel for her if she filed this much sooner, but a lot could have happened in 6 weeks if there was a danger present.

 

[RANCH]

I guess my problem isn't really about what did or didn't happen today. My problem is based on the waiting 6 weeks to perceive an emergency after waiting 6 entire long years of not even to seem to bother to see him. I could feel for her if she filed this much sooner, but a lot could have happened in 6 weeks if there was a danger present.

Maybe me and you have a different idea about what an emergency is in regards to the well being of a child. In this case there seems to be no hurry. 6 weeks- 8 weeks no big deal.

 

[In da Middle]

Maybe me and you have a different idea about what an emergency is in regards to the well being of a child. In this case there seems to be no hurry. 6 weeks- 8 weeks no big deal.

No, I think we see an emergency being the same thing - immediate danger perceived. I have a very real problem for her to claim "emergency", but wait 6 weeks to even START to act upon it. If she thought there was a true emergency, she should have thought it was one the very first day a possible intruder broke into the house and stole a baby when her baby was in the very next room. Not wait 6 weeks. Then to top it off, her history of not showing up for a very important custody hearing. i am not having any sympathy at all for her.

 

[Nixie]

No, I think we see an emergency being the same thing - immediate danger perceived. I have a very real problem for her to claim "emergency", but wait 6 weeks to even START to act upon it. If she thought there was a true emergency, she should have thought it was one the very first day a possible intruder broke into the house and stole a baby when her baby was in the very next room. Not wait 6 weeks. Then to top it off, her history of not showing up for a very important custody hearing. i am not having any sympathy at all for her.

I agree not fighting for visitation, not paying child support and not even filing right away makes it difficult to feel sorry for her. I hope she is sincere and wants to be apart of her child's life (I grew up with a dead beat mom its difficult growing up without a mom) but I think she is going about it in a cruel way. Tearing the boy from the only parent he knows will be traumatizing imo.